I will never learn

[mggt]

As is sit here my d is in court with her ex bd fighting over custody of there dauughter my gd .  Im sure some of your remember she left state and took her d with her , her ex gave permission .  He recently changed his mind I think because she is now pregnant again with new bf baby . I dont know whats going to happen but of course we paid for her lawyer to help her not lose custody (I was never sure if this was the right thing to do but I did it out of loyalty something my d does not have in her vocalbulary )  Im really not sure who would be the better parent ex bf or her they both have issues.  I just dont want my gd to be the victim she has been with her mom full time and dad on weekends.  I just feel so foolish as my d has printed out all the texts she has had between her and xbf to prove her gave her permission but in reading them the terrible things she says about me and my husband has sicken me to my stomach I know I shouldnt be surpirsed I know this is a very common trait with bps but WOW it is crushing me ,  why am I so shocked I have known this for years she will tell anyone and everyone how terrible I am .  I think i have to finally realize she will never change we will never have a honest loving relationship towards me .  We were with some friends this weekend and there kids late 20s came by to say hi I remember thinking wow I wish I had half the relationship with my d that they have with their children it reallly broke my heart . Dont know why I am rambling on sometimes it just feels better to write it down .   :'(

I

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

Oh mggt,  I'm so sorry that you are hurting.

This terrible disorder distorts truths, amplifies emotions, and hurts families.  :'(

I hope that your granddaughter lands in the best place for her well being and that you can continue to be her loving grandma.



lbj

[mggt]

Lbj, thank you really means alot  

[Honey B]

It truly is horrible to read things like that about yourself but try to remember that she probably doesn't even think that. If she is angry with you just for a few minutes that's how she sees you but in the next instant she doesn't see you that way at all.

Try to remember that its the illness talking.

I have also read terrible things about what a narcissistic , unkind person I am and it still hurts sometimes even though I accept that my D's view is skewed.

I hope things go well for your granddaughter. I would try to brush off what you have read in order to keep a good relationship with your granddaughter.

[raytamtay3]

MGGT  .  I know we are suppose to have radical acceptance of our disordered children, but it is still so hard especially when we see other families who have children who are "normal".  I personally don't think I will ever be able to fully accept it.  It's just too heartbreaking to do so.  I just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone and that we are here to support you.

[Mutt]

Hi mggt,

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope things go well for your granddaughter too  

If she is angry with you just for a few minutes that's how she sees you but in the next instant she doesn't see you that way at all.

I can see how heartbreaking that would feel when we have a loved one tell others how terrible we are. Feelings are quicksilver for a sufferer of BPD and it's how she feels in that moment, it's not a reflection of you or your H.

I dont know whats going to happen but of course we paid for her lawyer to help her not lose custody

Your thread title says "I will never learn" do you feel bad for paying for her lawyer?

[mggt]

Thank you all for your comments,  I understand most of the time she does not mean what she says because two minutes later she acts as if nothing has happend this has been her m.o. for years and I get that but it just wears on me .  It very typical of bps to act this way . Paying for lawyer , Im still not sure if I did the right thing or not we have given her thousands upon thousand of dollars for alot of her own mistakes and yet we keep on helping her.  So not sure if we are enabling or helping ?   We have come to her rescue over and over and on one occasion I was attacked trying to protect her and she hid on first floor of this house.  (long story) and alot of other hurtful things and she keeps on acting same way and we excuse it because she has a disease BPD .  My first instinct is to protect her mother bear,  but I think it just runs to deep with me the anger disapointment sadness .  I love her deeply but I dont like her .  Most of the time the disease takes her over and in my mind I know its not her but in my heart it destroys us.   

[Mutt]

Im still not sure if I did the right thing or not we have given her thousands upon thousand of dollars for alot of her own mistakes and yet we keep on helping her.

Hi mggt,

It sounds to me like you are trying to protect your grandchildren and have access to them

[mggt]

Thank you mutt your right we are trying to protect gd and also our d from herself .  The money never ends with her so common of bps but we are running out of it .  We will have to put a stop to it soon .  Update on court   As for now it will stay as is she can still live out of state and sbf will continue to see his d our gd every other weekend and he has to meet halfway for drop off and pick up .  The judge has to make a decsion on all the paper work provided by my d and xbf our d had alot of text printed out saying she could move but alot of the text were very contradictory .  So for right now it wil  not effect my gd thank god things will still be the same for her which we wanted .  Thank you my friends for all prayers and such wise advice   

[Mutt]

Hi mggt,

I understand. A sufferer of BPD lack impulse control, thoughts to consequences of their own actions.

Go easy on yourself, I think the bigger picture is that you're watching over your grandchildren  

I'm happy to hear things are staying the same for your gd  

[bpdmom1]

Sorry you are going through this.  I agree it is really hard to know what to do and riding the emotional roller coaster is exhausting.  My daughter is in a RTC right now so I have a break.  We do talk with her at least once a week and have seen her several times.  Even though she is away, safe and doing better she is still having a lot of ups and downs and I'm still riding her waves.

I've been reading a lot of posts and keep seeing that so many have distorted truths.  I've been really struggling with why my daughter has a different reality than what is real and now understand it is also part of the disorder. 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[mggt]

Just found out yesterday my dd and gd have to move back here according to the judge my d didnt prove beyond a reasonable doubt that xbf gave permission to leave the state permantley .  So this is going to be crazy town she is 7 months pregnant she wants to move back in with us her our gd newbf and baby to be wow I dont know what to do she has moved back so many times and it turns into an all out war.  Already gave lawyer 3.000 dollars .  Im already shaking just the thought of what to do having her here with all the baggage she brings .   

[mimi99]

I recently had very similar feelings of jealousy of others "normal" family relationships. My older daughter got married and I spent some time with her new husband's parents, etc. Watching the 3 siblings actually seek each other out, and enjoy spending time together made me so sad for the hard feelings my BPDd has created with her brother and sister (she wasn't even invited to the wedding). Knowing that she tells her friends and bf's family how horrible I am is heartbreaking. Others people just don't understand why she is not a part of our everyday life, especially because BPDs are so good at putting on that false face to others.

One of my fears right now is that she may get pregnant again. We have custody of her 5y/o daughter, but who knows if she is using protection with her new bf. I have decided that if she gets pregnant, or they break up she will not be able to come home--no matter what. I can't subject my household to so much chaos again, and she will never learn if she doesn't experience consequences. My granddaughter deserves to live in a peaceful home, free of emotional abuse and turmoil. I will enforce this boundary for my own sanity as well.

Have you considered not allowing them to move in with you? What will happen if you say no? How does your husband feel about this?

[lbjnltx]

Oh my mggt,

Has your d discussed with you her plans on how to comply with the judge's orders?  Is the only solution she sees moving in with you?

[mggt]

Dear lbj,  She said she wants to move back here they both have no money and when they move from there they will both lose their jobs.  No one will hire my d as she will be 8 months pregnant .  The thought of them moving here really makes me ill we have let her move back home so many times and it turns so ugly so fast .  But I still feel somehow to help her after all the hateful things she has done .  I want my gd here but I dont want her to be around if my d cant control herself she is already off the deep end that she has to move back to our state.  So I dont know what to do  I am thinking maybe trying to find them apartment and pay for 6 months but not too sure about that either not sure if anyone would rent to them considering they both have poor credit and no jobs?  I am not rich but I have some money suppose to be for retirement but it might be well worth it if she moves back here I might never see retirement age . Any ideas ?

[lbjnltx]

Can gd stay with you while mom and bf stay in a small efficiency somewhere near?... .maybe not the best neighborhood though it might be easier for them to rent and afford for now.  If you are willing to do the deposit and first month's (or so's) rent that would give them time to get jobs and start paying for their own rent.

As the income situation improves they could move to a nicer/larger place so gd and baby would be safer and have needed space.

I recall the name of this thread and how the thought of doing this again makes you feel ill.  Something/someone has to change to stop the cycle.



lbj

[qcarolr]

mggt --

I apologize for being out of date with your story here -- took a breather from BPD for a bit. Maybe you have already shared some of the answers to my questions.

What is your experience with the current bf? Will he seek work immediately (ie. take responsibility for his family -- your DD, gd and new baby)? Is he most likely to seek work and take responsibility with a solid limit on the financial help you can offer? Is there an apartment that would accept 2-3 months prepaid rent and the deposit without the need for a co-signor on the lease? They would be responsible for all rent after that, or would have to move and find a place on their own. We did this once with DD on 6-month lease. DD was able to renew for another 12 months on her own. Worked for DD's little family for awhile -- then things fell to pieces. Wish I knew then what I do now plus the experience with responding as an advocate and not The Rescuer.

It is so very very hard to let go of the outcomes when grandchildren are involved. How is the family court involved with your gd? Is there any ongoing supervision? How is gd's relationship with her daddy? How is your r/s with gd's daddy?

I have a little note on my wall by my computer here at home, with suggestion from lbjnltx about 4 years ago:

"It is not within my power to orchestrate the outcome... .

I can only try to create opportunities."

Lbj gave me this in reply to my posts about "accepting the reality in advocating in the relationship with gd and DD". My quote is written on this little note as well.  I have come to understand that my reality is not always aligned with the truth in any given situation. When I have been able to turn loose of the strong desires to control a relationship in my life, this allows the other person to work it out for themselves. I pray for the ability to practice this daily. It takes a lot of courage, persistence, and trust in God to endure the messiness and pain. Only in the past year have I  begun to experience some good outcomes for the many opportunities that I had intention to create. My latest post talks more about this.

What I have done, and would do again, is to focus first on the safety of the child. I would think of ways to become involved in gd's life on a regular basis. This provides a stable, safe, supportive person in her life. This will be so very valuable as she grows up. How old is she? School has the potential to provide other supportive adult mentors in her life.

I hope to be here more often to share how this is working out with you.

qcr

[mggt]

Hi Q, The court just ordered her to move back to our state the xbf brought the case to court , I dont have a good relationship with him anymore we are not sure why he did this he only sees our gd on weekends anyway so does it really matter where she lived , the lawyer seems to think its all about him having to pay chil d support but who knows.  The new boyfriend were are not so sure of when this first happend when we found out she was pregnant we asked him what his intentions were and he stumbled and said oh I plan on marrying her and my h said Are you going to give her an engagement ring and he said yes but I just found out about this that was almost 5 months ago.  He said I am working on it,  now everytime we bring it up it becomes a big argument with our d .  We know they are finacilly strapped but we said if you cant afford a ring why would you become preganant . Our feelings are giving her a ring is a sign of respect love commitment and honor and my d is now saying she  does not need one so typical of our dd as she has always had low self esteem ,  We feel like total asses letting them move in if he cant openly honor her in the way we feel is the right thing. I know it might sound petty but we feel like the writing is on the wall , we have been threw this befor with the xbf and the thought of doing it again really angrys me .  As far as renting a place shorterm aroung here its will not work very hard to find shorterm rentals .  So we are at a standstill my d said she wants to move in here with bf and gd and the only reason we are thinking about it is because of our gd.  Our d said if she moves back home we cannot keep asking them when she is getting a ring .  I explained to her we only want the best   So now I feel Im already being told what I can and cannot say in my own home .  All adivce welcome Thank you   

[qcarolr]

Hi mggt -

The engagement ring, as an outward symbol of an internal commitment to marriage, is a time honored tradition to you and your DH. Perhaps this tradition has less meaning for your dd and bf. My dh struggles more with the differences in values and traditions with our DD29 than I do. Outward symbols carried a very high value in his family.

Do you think the importance of this symbol is more about your dd and her children being cared for than the actual marriage between dd and bf? The lack of knowing more about bf is so frustrating. Can you brainstorm some ways to limit confrontational stuff and find a way to connect to get to know him better? Validation tools and skills were a great change for me in connecting with my dd and her bfs.

Have you and your dh taken some time to figure out what your core values are? There are some guides for doing this here at bpdfamily. Would you like a link to this info?  It sure helped me in learning about setting boundaries that have a better chance of working to protect my values and to benefit my relationships, esp. with DD.

Let us know if these resources would help. I am going to continue to ponder your reply today and think of how dh and I worked through our situation in getting to know the bf better. Our goal was to find ways to protect the gkids while allowing the parents to be impacted by the results of their choices and actions. Very hard balance to figure out.

qcr

[mggt]

Hi Q,  Yes please send me any info on core values.  As far as the engagement ring I really feel that is important for her and us I guess.  She is already down playing the ring and before she was telling me how excited she was to get a ring and girl would be. I know he does not want to move back here with us and honestly i dont want him here I cant help but speak up when I feel extremely strong about something we already played house with her and xbf and gd I do not want to do it again.  The only reason I will allow them back is because of my gd they have to move back to this state very soon we are having the lawyer go to the court with a motion to delay the move back here but not sure if this will work.  The xbf only sees gd on weeekends anyway so we cant understand why this has all come about lawyer thinks its about child support and that he has to meet her halfway for pickup and delivery total round trip 4 hours .  I will try your suggestion to try to find something in common with newbf but he

already told me I was poison and a few other choice words so I dont feel all warm and fuzzy towards him.  Just sick and tired of all the newbf and oldbf not sure if it will ever end new bf new baby newbf new baby and so on Thank you for your advice I really appreciate you taking the time to respond I continue to pray for all of you and especially your gd she seems to be doing well they are little miracles arent they   

[qcarolr]

Just a quick thought: maybe newbf not really able or willing to make commitment the rest of you seek. There has to be the 'engagement' when an engagement ring is given.  Could this be a moment when DD, you and dh have a reality and the 'truth' is out of sync with that. Something to ponder.

qcr

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[mggt]

Hi q,  Yes that is how we feel that something just does not add up we feel that he isnt committed to this relationship the way he says he is .  We have spoke openly and honestly with our d about this and she is in denial keeps making excuses for him she lives in never land most of the time and trying to explain our feelings to her about the non engagement only makes her furious .  Initially he told us they were getting engaged but that was 6 months ago and now anytime we bring it up they both get upset now my d is telling me we ruined it for her and if they did get engaged it would be for us and not them which is total bs .