Why do I stay?

[Mel1968]

Hello everyone. For the past few months I've gone back from "leaving" to "staying" through "undecided" so very many times.

I know that my uBPDgf treats me appallingly in that she accuses me of lying and infidelity at least once a day;gaslights; paints me black/white with such regularity it makes my head spin; swears at me; calls me names; tells me I'm doing this that and the other and thinking this that and the other if she can't catch me doing it (because I never am); gives me a hard time if ever I go out with any friend; demands all my attention all the time unless she's put the phone down on me, dumped me or is giving me the ST etc etc etc. You all know all the stories... .

So sometimes I think why on earth do I stay?

Because when she's lovely she's really lovely, and as long as I can forget what's been said and ignore the constant little remarks (and mainly I can) it's like nothing ever happened and we have a happy time together doing the things we love together. I believe she's honest (apart from when she's telling me black is white of course!) and I believe she's loyal.

So I stay. And I'm learning the Lessons and setting boundaries and trying not to JADE and going out with friends and getting on with my life when she dumps me... But I often think Why should I have to do this? What is the point in continuing with an unequal relationship that is always always going to be such hard work?

And I see your stories on here and they're all so hard and distressing but you all stay.

And so I wondered why you do?

Thanks- I feel like I've just had a bit of a rant, didn't mean to, guess I needed to get it out.

Mel

[blackorchid]

Hi Mel.

I know exactly how you feel.  I guess it's exactly what you said

Because when she's lovely she's really lovely, and as long as I can forget what's been said and ignore the constant little remarks (and mainly I can) it's like nothing ever happened and we have a happy time together doing the things we love together.

I think because they kind of like explode and we're left in the aftermath trying to figure out what just happened and if you're like me beating yourself up when you know you didn't follow the lessons you just want them to come and things to return to normal.  You then hope that this time it I'll be better.  This time we can make it work. This time you're armed you've read up on the disorder you know what you did wrong last time, you know what to do and what not to do next time.  So we stay.  also if like me I feel guilty. I know what he's like and when he dysregulates I worry so much for him and just want him back so I know that he is ok 

[Mel1968]

Hi blackorchid

Yes, I know exactly those feelings! Especially the belief that next time I'll follow the lessons better and the guilt for not having done so this time... .And of course, even as I'm writing this and reading what you wrote, I'm thinking, "That sounds remarkably FOGgy... "

I think the two big issues I've been having recently are resentment "I want to defend myself against such horrendous accusations" and the fact that she is disregulating so often recently that I know in my heart that I'm triggering it just by existing, doesn't matter what I act sulky do or don't do, say or don't say, and that almost certainly it'd be better for her mental health if I walked away for good. Feeling very sad and confused.

[blackorchid]

I'm feeling exactly like you Mel  :'( you have to learn to realise that you're not the cause of her being like this. So you're not the trigger. If it wasn't you it would be someone else... .but I know that doesn't help the way that you're feeling

[Mel1968]

Thank you for saying that blackorchid. I suppose I've assumed that because her outbursts are always a result of something that she believes I've done then I'm the trigger. But if I haven't actually done the thing she's believing (and I never have) then how can I actually be the trigger? Except that if she didn't have anything to do with me she wouldn't have to think about me and believe those things, she's very good at just getting on with her life when I'm not there, says she's much happier without me... And yet she keeps coming back...

I know from your other posts you're having a really hard time too, I'm sorry I can't help you any with it, she's never gone more than a couple of days, so I don't know what you're going through. It sounds like you're struggling to understand it though, big hug, and thanks for taking the time to reply to me 

[blackorchid]

But if I haven't actually done the thing she's believing (and I never have) then how can I actually be the trigger?

Try and focus in that part, that you know you haven't done anything and unfortunately it's because of the way she is. That will help you keep your sanity when she's accusing you if things and read the lessons. Validating is the key as babyducks pointed out.

Thank you I'm starting to think it's just time to move home. But I'll wait and see how I feel at the weekend when fly back home ( his country home)

[blackorchid]

But if I haven't actually done the thing she's believing (and I never have) then how can I actually be the trigger?

Try and focus in that part, that you know you haven't done anything and unfortunately it's because of the way she is. That will help you keep your sanity when she's accusing you if things and read the lessons. Validating is the key as babyducks pointed out.

Thank you   I'm starting to think it's just time to move home. But I'll wait and see how I feel at the weekend when fly back home ( his country home)

[Lucky Jim]

she accuses me of lying and infidelity at least once a day;gaslights; paints me black/white with such regularity it makes my head spin; swears at me; calls me names; tells me I'm doing this that and the other and thinking this that and the other if she can't catch me doing it (because I never am); gives me a hard time if ever I go out with any friend; demands all my attention all the time unless she's put the phone down on me, dumped me or is giving me the ST etc etc etc.

Hey Mel, Why do you put up with being treated so poorly?  It's not because she's so lovely, my friend.  One reason, I would suggest, is because on some level you think you deserve such treatment.  You don't, of course, but your self-esteem is so low that it seems like it.

One reason we stay is because we Nons usually have a codependent side.  In some ways, you have to be a caretaker to be in a BPD r/s.  And I would suggest that when a pwBPD finds a caretaker, the attraction is intense, though unhealthy.  We Nons tend to carry the emotional baggage for the pwBPD, which is exhausting after a while.

Suggest you listen more to your gut feelings, Mel, and think about what is the right path for you.

LuckyJim

[Tangy]

Because when she's lovely she's really lovely, and as long as I can forget what's been said and ignore the constant little remarks (and mainly I can) it's like nothing ever happened and we have a happy time together doing the things we love together. I believe she's honest (apart from when she's telling me black is white of course!) and I believe she's loyal.

So I stay. And I'm learning the Lessons and setting boundaries and trying not to JADE and going out with friends and getting on with my life when she dumps me... But I often think Why should I have to do this? What is the point in continuing with an unequal relationship that is always always going to be such hard work?

I hope its okay that I post on this... .because I spend a majority of time in the leaving board. Reading this felt so familiar to me and I remember asking myself all the same questions and how lovely he was when happy times returned... .

He actually left me... .but it was getting to the point where I was starting to have cognitive dissonance. On the one hand I was beginning to love myself... .and on the other I was staying with someone that wasn't treating me right on a consistent basis... .and quite frankly horribly when it was bad. So one or the other was going to have to go. I started saying... .how is it fair that I will live like this for the rest of my life... .and my friends will continue to have loyal, regulated, consistent spouses that show up for them. And before I actually had the chance to face the cognitive dissonance and deal with the conflict in my head... .he left. That was two and a half months ago. But if he hadn't left, I might still be debating between staying and leaving)

I don't say any of this to sway you one way or another. (Which is why I would assume its probably okay to post on here). Just to say that I understand how you must be feeling. Because you love them so much and it can be so good... .but it begins to feel really unfair... .or weird... .that you're actually prepped for someone to dysregulate and leave you... .For me it felt like I was saying "I am not good enough to have a healthy partner" Please understand this was just me... .I'm not suggesting anyone is wrong from staying. But i really do empathize with what you're going through and I hope you can get some clarity.

[13YearGoodbye]

I stayed because she has BPD and I am a caretaker.

I stayed to nurture her kids.

I stayed because she was physically ill.

I stayed for the sex.

I stayed for financial support.

I stayed to be worshiped from time to time.

I stayed because all my stuff was at her place.

I stayed for the dog.

I stayed because it was a habit.

I stayed because I don't like giving up.

I stayed because of peer-pressure from my religious upbringing.

I stayed because it was easier to face known problems than an unknowable future.

[babyducks]

I suppose I've assumed that because her outbursts are always a result of something that she believes I've done then I'm the trigger.

Hi Mel,

Some of the experts strongly suggest that pwBPD relive, or re-experience their core wound over and over again.   

Everyone has a core wound.   pwBPD feel theirs even when it's not actually occurring.   

does that make sense?

'ducks

[Mel1968]

Thanks for your replies, folks. All of them contain bits that resonate with me, which is reassuring and is promoting my thinking a bit more. I know really that I'm not on my own, that you're all out there, but sometimes it's good to hear it a bit more directly; I'm feeling a bit lost at the moment, and actually a bit scared- I know in my heart that I have to leave this relationship (although she's gone at the moment, so who knows if it'll be my choice?)- but the thought of actually giving up and just thinking about me and my life is a bit terrifying, especially as I've lost all sense of what I actually want for me... .

Babyducks, please could you explain a bit more about reliving the core wound? I know that most of her reactions to things she perceives I do or think are nothing to do with what is actually going on, and are as a result of what happened to her in childhood, and in past relationships, she's even able to acknowledge that sometimes. But I suppose I think that if she wasn't in contact with me, she wouldn't be triggered into reliving those things. She doesn't react like that with friends or colleagues. With them she is all sunshine and light and positivity, it's one of the things that drives me nuts!

Thanks

Mel

[babyducks]

Hi Mel,

Here is a link to reliving the core wound.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=67059.0

My partner's core wound comes from neglect, she suffered serious neglect as a child, think along the lines of basically being dumped alone in a room with a box of Cheerios and told to fend for herself.   Anything, and I mean anything that has a whiff of neglect about it, creates in her mind/feelings that same scenario.   It's like she is preprogrammed to see neglect, feel neglect and react intensely to avoid it.    I think it's because feelings=facts for pwBPD.  And her fear of neglect keeps her looking for it and perceiving it over and over again.   If I am late coming home for dinner she feels immediately it is because I am never coming home again.   Her first thought is Oh My God I am being left alone to fend for myself again.     It takes her a while to work to get to the thought of oh traffic on the interstate must be jammed up again.

You are absolutely correct, friends and colleagues don't trigger the kind of behavior that we see.   It's the closest and most intimate relationships that opens up engulfment and abandonment fears.   It's not you specifically.  It's the nature of the relationship.   It's a terrible catch 22, to want a close relationship and be overwhelmed by it at the same time.

'ducks

[Mel1968]

Thank you for that clear explanation babyducks, it makes a lot of sense to me. Unfortunately it just makes me feel more conflicted. On the one hand, there is nothing i can do to stop triggering her many and very profound core wounds (sometimes I wonder how she gets up in the morning, she's had such an horrific childhood and is still so visibly scarred by it) and so I know the best thing for us both is to walk away. But thinking about how damaged she is, and understanding that this is why she behaves as she does, just makes me want to hang in there and try that bit harder.

It's all so very difficult.

Mel

[Tangy]

Thanks for your replies, folks. All of them contain bits that resonate with me, which is reassuring and is promoting my thinking a bit more. I know really that I'm not on my own, that you're all out there, but sometimes it's good to hear it a bit more directly; I'm feeling a bit lost at the moment, and actually a bit scared- I know in my heart that I have to leave this relationship (although she's gone at the moment, so who knows if it'll be my choice?)- but the thought of actually giving up and just thinking about me and my life is a bit terrifying, especially as I've lost all sense of what I actually want for me... .

I can relate to this and am still relating to this 2.5 months out. I have spent the last 3 years of my life consumed with him. While I was still  living my life... .it was more like a background running program that I wasn't attending to. And I knew that if he and I were no longer, then that is something I would have to face. I was scared of what was there... .what wasn't there... .scared of everything. In my situation, I still miss him a lot, but everyday life is easier for me since he's not here. I'm the only thing I have to think about, I don't have to worry about my relationship falling apart every two seconds, and my stuff isn't routinely on the back burner. Overall, the tightness in my chest and anxiety is gone. And again, I didn't make the choice to leave, he left me, so I am not advocating one way or the other. Just trying to give you some hope that if leaving is what you want to do, the fearof being alone and focusing on yourself may be stronger than what actually being alone and focusing on yourself will be like. Man this stuff is so tough. Sending encouragement your way.

[Mel1968]

Thanks Tangy, I think you are almost certainly right about the fear of my future being worse than the reality. I know this on an intellectual level at least. I like your analogy of life as a background running program that  I don't really attend to, that sums it up perfectly for me!

Lucky Jim, I've been thinking a lot today aboit what you said about low self esteem. My automatic reaction is to disagree; I believe I have good self confidence and self esteem, and believe that the reason I hang on in there is because I can rise above the cruelty and nastiness in order to be the rock she needs. I read about FOO and believe that I had a mainly happy childhood with parents who loved me and tried their best for me. But then I realise that most people just wouldn't put up with being called a ... .and a... .and told they're lying with every breath they take, being dumped weekly and then running back when they're told they're forgiven for something they didn't do,  and I wonder what's really going on with me that I'm not in touch with?

When I was younger I used to be a bit of an adrenaline junky, climbing, sky diving, that kind of thing. I do wonder sometimes if I dont just like the rush of adrenaline that I get when I get text from her mid fight, and the sense of satisfaction I get when I manage to win her round, a bit like lion taming or getting to the highest peak I guess. It doesn't make me feel particularly good to think these things but I'm trying to be honest with myself.

[13YearGoodbye]

If I am late coming home for dinner she feels immediately it is because I am never coming home again.   Her first thought is Oh My God I am being left alone to fend for myself again.    

I forgot all about this particular annoyance... .I was constantly accused of abandoning her, and not caring about her, etc if I was late coming home from my work which doesn't have fixed hours... She had in her mind that the commute is perhaps 15 minutes, when in reality it was closer to 40, so I was automatically betraying her just by calling her to say that I was starting for home. Eventually I started fibbing to her... .Calling her when I was 2/3 of the way home and saying, "I'm done with work. Heading home"... .Not technically a lie, but definitely a misdirection.

[babyducks]

If I am late coming home for dinner she feels immediately it is because I am never coming home again.   Her first thought is Oh My God I am being left alone to fend for myself again.    

I forgot all about this particular annoyance... .I was constantly accused of abandoning her, and not caring about her, etc if I was late coming home from my work which doesn't have fixed hours... She had in her mind that the commute is perhaps 15 minutes, when in reality it was closer to 40, so I was automatically betraying her just by calling her to say that I was starting for home. Eventually I started fibbing to her... .Calling her when I was 2/3 of the way home and saying, "I'm done with work. Heading home"... .Not technically a lie, but definitely a misdirection.

Right.   It's definitely a symptom of the disorder.   

I am heading home for dinner and because of the never ending construction on the interstate I am delayed.   My partner immediately reacts from her core wound, her disorder.   The way she processes information is "something bad is happening again", and looks for a frame of reference to categorize it with.   Bad things have happened before so she finds a familiar feeling and attaches this moment to it.

Maladaptive coping traits kick in.   Since pwBPD have trouble regulating emotions, things start to percolate.  This is all that babyducks fault.   She said she would be home for dinner,  I've explained over and over how important it is to have dinner together.

about this time I walk in the door.  and I am pretty frazzled by being stuck in traffic.   My partner blasts at me and I blast back.  And the argument starts.  except we are arguing about different things.   She is upset because she feels abandoned and I am upset because I feel the lack of empathy.

Validation probably could have avoided this entire argument.   From both sides.  My partner can provide over the top validation when her mood is in the right spot.    That's how I got into the relationship to begin with.

Lucky Jim, I've been thinking a lot today aboit what you said about low self esteem. My automatic reaction is to disagree; I believe I have good self confidence and self esteem, and believe that the reason I hang on in there is because I can rise above the cruelty and nastiness in order to be the rock she needs. I read about FOO and believe that I had a mainly happy childhood with parents who loved me and tried their best for me. But then I realise that most people just wouldn't put up with being called a ... .and a... .and told they're lying with every breath they take, being dumped weekly and then running back when they're told they're forgiven for something they didn't do,  and I wonder what's really going on with me that I'm not in touch with?

There is a reason I ended up in a r/s with a mentally ill partner.   I chose her.  Actually there are a bunch of reasons I picked her.  It took a while to unravel them.   I am glad I did the self reflection to figure it out.   This book helped a lot.

Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist

I ended up highlighting more than half the book.

'ducks

[ArleighBurke]

I, too, alternate daily between stay, go, undecided.

At the moment, I stay because it's a BIG decision to leave. Considerations are:

    - every relationship has issues. Do I really believe that I will find a less-onesided one? I'd like to THINK that I can, but my view of "normal" has been twisted since birth (watching my parents, becoming co-dependant, then being married for 15yrs). When I consider leaving, I try to compare being married with being SINGLE. This means I'm not assuming getting a "better" partner - I'd be leaving JUST for my own sanity.

    - leaving will leave my kids (12/9/6) with my wBPD (hopefully not 100%, but at least 50%). What will this be like? Will her BPD bahaviour be directed towards them? Is my current presence providing support and sanity for them?

    - finances will be tight for her (and probably me) if I leave. Although she earns well, she spends well too. She won't have enough $ to keep the family home. Possibly she could leave, and I could stay in the family home, but I don't think she'll agree at all to that (even though it makes a lot more sense). And I'm not even sure if I can afford it myself either.

Almost all of this comes down to kids. I certainly DON'T look forward to living with my wife when all the kids have left - so I've convinced myself I WILL be leaving - now it's just when.  I keep thinking that in 5 yrs time the youngest will be 11. If I can wait until then, I'll be much more motivated... .

[Mel1968]

It sounds as though you have some difficult choices either way, ArleighBurke. Five years is a long time... .Are there things that you could do during that time to make things better for you? Best wishes with it all... .

Babyducks, I'm reading Stop Caretaking... .Yes I'm highlighting tons too!