Confused and a little worried

[alwaysloving]

So I've had this on again and off again relationship with this girl who will be nameless the first time we met I noticed she moved very fast within the first 15 min of meeting me she was already kissing me... Later that time when I went home she told me I needed to slow down which was odd to me because she was the one that leaned in first to kiss... OK so fast forward a few weeks we met at Starbucks talked a bit and she told me a little about her family and all, Apparently she wanted me to ask her out that day but I did not which made her feel like I did not like her, she wanted me to do so before I left on vacation... Now this is were the part that had me a little worried... I was taking a vacation in her country and she was worried about me doing anything with the women I assured her many of times I was not and I never did, but she wanted to call and text all the time which she did or she sent me pictures... she questioned how come she never saw my friends I was with but she did not understand I was at a very large resort so I can't locate them like that.

Anyways I came back and she told me she was a difficult girl to deal with and was not sure I could handle her... after a few weeks she called me and I was doing some work and she told me she wanted to be my girlfriend and she said she was only going to say this once and not often and that she loves me... I kind of froze in my tracks because I was not used to her just saying out like that and she could tell because she asked me if I was ok and that I did not sound very surprised.

I can't remember what happened after that other then a few other dates and her breaking up again but then later telling me she is tired of fighting it that she cares for me... Now sometime along this time she talked about that she had a therapist (I don't know how true this is) and she told me she was on some meds (I did not ask) and on at least 2 occasions she has asked me to come to therapy with her to know what I'm getting into... the most recent being 3 weeks ago... For the more recent she said "Maybe in January" the first thought that came to mind was Why January? And her saying she wanted to go to couples therapy even though we are not a true couple yet but she just wanted me to go so I would know what I would be getting myself into as she worded it.

Now I don't like to judge anyone but I know she suffers from anxiety but It seems like she might have some BPD traits? what I notice sometimes with her when we talk she zones out like she will look off to the side for about 10-15 seconds or so not saying anything or moving then she will focus back on me... She told me out of all the guys shes dated I'm the only one that has still stuck with her... Now which brings me to her Maybe it's just being forgetful but it seems she will only remember some things and not others, I can remember things she said to me months ago where things like hours before she will not remember... for example she wanted me to go with her to the Luna eclipse so I did but she claimed she forgot she asked me.

And last is a pretty big one shes like before we have sex you need to get tested and asked me when I could get tested... I got tested and she congratulated me on being clean which I thought was a little odd. That weekend she got sexual in the park and before I went home she said maybe tomorrow we can get a room but I will let you know tomorrow... so the next day comes and she sends this long text on why she could not have sex with me... long story short she said she wanted to be sure of her feelings for me. By this time I have been so used to how she goes hot and cold it did not bother me much at all...

Now the last part is my birthday falls day after Thanksgiving this year and she said she wants to come over, and she told me it would be her first time not being home with her family but I would have to pick her up and take her back and I told her that's fine. I just don't know if shes going to keep her promise.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[an0ught]

Hi Mike,

she certainly is getting your hopes up and then trashes them again and again. Over time this can be quite damaging and in the end you don't know what to feel anymore  . Take good care of yourself - the answer is not trying to control the up-and-downs - for you the answer lies more in staying grounded based on stuff that is not depending on her.

There is a lot of anxiety when you describe her. How comfortable are you addressing her fears? Are you trying to re-assure her (not so good, invalidating) or are you listening carefully and honestly reflect back (validating). You may find a the LESSONS a good starting point to seek out workshops on various BPD topics - communication is one of the most important ones.

Now the last part is my birthday falls day after Thanksgiving this year and she said she wants to come over, and she told me it would be her first time not being home with her family but I would have to pick her up and take her back and I told her that's fine. I just don't know if shes going to keep her promise.

Validate that it is not easy for her. But then she is also now a grow-up. Don't push her, instead validate her inner conflict. In the end it needs to be her decision and some people will be less happy with it than others. Be clear when you arrive and arrive slightly, but only slightly ahead of time. Have a clear retreat plan and trigger for it in your mind in case she actually bails (see boundary workshops). Having a clear retreat plan helps you to project confidence that everything will go according to plan... .

,

a0

[alwaysloving]

Hi Mike,

she certainly is getting your hopes up and then trashes them again and again. Over time this can be quite damaging and in the end you don't know what to feel anymore  . Take good care of yourself - the answer is not trying to control the up-and-downs - for you the answer lies more in staying grounded based on stuff that is not depending on her.

There is a lot of anxiety when you describe her. How comfortable are you addressing her fears? Are you trying to re-assure her (not so good, invalidating) or are you listening carefully and honestly reflect back (validating). You may find a the LESSONS a good starting point to seek out workshops on various BPD topics - communication is one of the most important ones.

Now the last part is my birthday falls day after Thanksgiving this year and she said she wants to come over, and she told me it would be her first time not being home with her family but I would have to pick her up and take her back and I told her that's fine. I just don't know if shes going to keep her promise.

Validate that it is not easy for her. But then she is also now a grow-up. Don't push her, instead validate her inner conflict. In the end it needs to be her decision and some people will be less happy with it than others. Be clear when you arrive and arrive slightly, but only slightly ahead of time. Have a clear retreat plan and trigger for it in your mind in case she actually bails (see boundary workshops). Having a clear retreat plan helps you to project confidence that everything will go according to plan... .

,

a0

I don't want to come out and ask her if she is this or that because I can see her reaction... However I notice when we were dating she would always assume I would cheat on her. She would be like I had this dream last night that you cheated on me with another woman. Or pretty much any time she said I had a dream about you I knew it was not going to be me in a nice light. Now in the car the other day she was like I have a feeling that you pray for me and i agreed. Many of times early in the relationship she would always question why I liked her so much. With the most recent her telling me to date other girls because she feels I don't have enough experience but she said it's ok to go on a causal date but NOT to get into a serious relationship with them. And she held my hand in the car saying you know you are the only one I want to be with. It's not easy but I told her time and time again that I'm with her for the long haul I'm not trying to fix her but I don't want her to feel like she is alone.

[an0ught]

It's not easy but I told her time and time again that I'm with her for the long haul I'm not trying to fix her but I don't want her to feel like she is alone.

It is less important, actually it can be detrimental, to reassure her so often. It is more important to tell her she is afraid being left, struggles to trust, is not certain of you etc... Read up on how to validate, particularly how to deal with negative stuff.

[alwaysloving]

It's not easy but I told her time and time again that I'm with her for the long haul I'm not trying to fix her but I don't want her to feel like she is alone.

It is less important, actually it can be detrimental, to reassure her so often. It is more important to tell her she is afraid being left, struggles to trust, is not certain of you etc... Read up on how to validate, particularly how to deal with negative stuff.

Wait so are you saying I should be telling her or asking her if she is afraid of being left? I assume all the stuff is here to read?

[an0ught]

Wait so are you saying I should be telling her or asking her if she is afraid of being left? I assume all the stuff is here to read?

Yes, at times you may have to ask it or reflect back that she feels not sure you stick around. Validating abandonment is not comfortable for us so we tend to deny it could happen. But she is feeling that fear and denial is just making the fear stronger... .

Validation requires careful listening. Check out the workshops, the LESSONS provide a good starting point.

[alwaysloving]

Wait so are you saying I should be telling her or asking her if she is afraid of being left? I assume all the stuff is here to read?

Yes, at times you may have to ask it or reflect back that she feels not sure you stick around. Validating abandonment is not comfortable for us so we tend to deny it could happen. But she is feeling that fear and denial is just making the fear stronger... .

Validation requires careful listening. Check out the workshops, the LESSONS provide a good starting point.

I do listen sometimes I get a little distracted by the environment I'm in (she lives in NYC) but when she talks one on one I listen and I will give feedback which is usually my opinion on something.

It's interesting because she always says she has this wall up, but it's so hard to get her to stop being so guarded, she said her longest relationship was 2 years What I can't figure out is what is her trigger... About a month ago she tells me she feels happier being alone and being with someone makes her feel like she is not going to have her freedom. Now I will admit back then I was still learning and trying to figure her out. Being as she comes back next week I'm not sure if I should give flowers or what... I do know she said she wants to see me.

but my main things is to figure out how can I ease her in not thinking I'm sneaky or going to cheat on her, because she always brings that up if not her telling me a dream story or she will just flat out say she feels like she can't trust me but I haven't did anything to make her think that.

I don't see her breaking off contact fully last time she went off on me for no reason I did 2 days NC and she ended up wanting to meet up to apologize to me, I also think because I don't show much emotion when she gets upset with me she thinks I'm weak but I'm just letting the time pass.

[alwaysloving]

I wonder if it would be ok to give her some flowers for when she gets back? One of her biggest thing is she hates surprises. she is supposedly on meds for anxiety but how she acts seems like it's something else... the biggest sign was when she said she wanted me to go to couple therapy with her but that wont be until January (not sure why so far off) evan though we are not a couple again right now it will be good to know what I'm getting myself into (her exact words)

[alwaysloving]

Maybe my questioning is not really the right type for this site

[an0ught]

Maybe my questioning is not really the right type for this site

No and yes. No, your line of questioning is normal, especially for this site. Nope, you should not question yourself so much  .

I wonder if it would be ok to give her some flowers for when she gets back? One of her biggest thing is she hates surprises. she is supposedly on meds for anxiety but how she acts seems like it's something else... the biggest sign was when she said she wanted me to go to couple therapy with her but that wont be until January (not sure why so far off) evan though we are not a couple again right now it will be good to know what I'm getting myself into (her exact words)

She hates surprises but she also will look back fondly on them. If you gear your behavior simply to what she wants your relationship will be doomed. Think as much about what she needs, what the relationship needs and last but really not the least what you think is important to you.

When it comes to flowers, be sure you have a course of action afterwards though out (vase). Be also prepared to validate anything from not fitting color to too short to too long and don't be surprised if contradictory statements come sequentially.

[alwaysloving]

Maybe my questioning is not really the right type for this site

No and yes. No, your line of questioning is normal, especially for this site. Nope, you should not question yourself so much  .

I wonder if it would be ok to give her some flowers for when she gets back? One of her biggest thing is she hates surprises. she is supposedly on meds for anxiety but how she acts seems like it's something else... the biggest sign was when she said she wanted me to go to couple therapy with her but that wont be until January (not sure why so far off) evan though we are not a couple again right now it will be good to know what I'm getting myself into (her exact words)

She hates surprises but she also will look back fondly on them. If you gear your behavior simply to what she wants your relationship will be doomed. Think as much about what she needs, what the relationship needs and last but really not the least what you think is important to you.

When it comes to flowers, be sure you have a course of action afterwards though out (vase). Be also prepared to validate anything from not fitting color to too short to too long and don't be surprised if contradictory statements come sequentially.

I gotcha about the flowers One thing I was thinking about today... so the last time we saw each other she holds my hand and tells me that she only wants me for long term however her actions sometimes don't match up... I can't remember if it was the same night or another but she was like she felt I did not have enough experience and she wanted me to go out on dates with other girls but she made sure to say don't get into a relationship with me... now for me that's a code of don't do what she says... because I learned the last time I did something like that she got extremely upset.

My point is can I really believe what she says? It's so funny when I was away in her country for a week she was contacting me non stop... .called me while I was out and about so I called her and she did not want to talk long because of the cost but thanked me for calling... she wont message me unless I do it first... but she said she wanted to see me when she gets back which I'm sure shes going to tell me about the trip and hold my hand and I'm sure kiss.

The odd thing is she will whisper I love you in my hear but she will be like don't say it back If I question her too much oh how come she can't say hi back she will get cranky go off on me then later apologize to me.

I feel her push/pull behavior is her testing but shes thrown so many loops.

[alwaysloving]

I guess my time to edit expired... but another thing also going back on her bringing things out of the blue but not following up on...

countless times she would say things to me like "Oh are you ready to meet my family" only to not meet them... or she wanted to take me to this support group only to change her mind a few days before... Not long ago she was like if I'm not more aggressive she will walk all over me but in my mind I feel if I get too aggressive towards her shes going to go distant again.

[alwaysloving]

I talked to her about this this past Friday and she seems to agree with BPD she did not get upset if anything she seemed fine with me searching about it, she asked me to send her a link when I got home but on purpose I did not send it just to see if she would remember and a few hours she sent me a link that she was looking at and she seemed to agree with it.

[patientandclear]

Mike, what I want to comment on is the little crumbs of info she's given you that her fears are not just or not only or maybe even not primarily about abandonment. She's given you several clues that she's as afraid of engulfment. I think engulfment is harder for partners of pwBPD to grasp. There's a great thread on engulfment from a couple months back on here, and the article called "Why We Struggle in Our Relationships" also explains very well the feeling that the pwBPD will lose herself in a close relationship and what an awful feeling that is.

My ex wBPD was primarily driven by engulfment fears when he took the actions he took that have been most damaging to our r/ship. If I'd interpreted the problem as fear of abandonment I'd probably have reacted unhelpfully, by reassuring him I would never leave etc. In some ways that's the scariest idea of all. Anyway, this woman in your life is telling you she is terrified of losing her freedom. It's really important to hear and make room for that. That fear comes from real but prior experiences in her life--not about you.

[alwaysloving]

Mike, what I want to comment on is the little crumbs of info she's given you that her fears are not just or not only or maybe even not primarily about abandonment. She's given you several clues that she's as afraid of engulfment. I think engulfment is harder for partners of pwBPD to grasp. There's a great thread on engulfment from a couple months back on here, and the article called "Why We Struggle in Our Relationships" also explains very well the feeling that the pwBPD will lose herself in a close relationship and what an awful feeling that is.

My ex wBPD was primarily driven by engulfment fears when he took the actions he took that have been most damaging to our r/ship. If I'd interpreted the problem as fear of abandonment I'd probably have reacted unhelpfully, by reassuring him I would never leave etc. In some ways that's the scariest idea of all. Anyway, this woman in your life is telling you she is terrified of losing her freedom. It's really important to hear and make room for that. That fear comes from real but prior experiences in her life--not about you.

Yeah when we talked by the water she said and this is not the first time she has said she feels she is going to lose her freedom and I told her you won't just as if you smother someone 24/7 you will get tired of them It has taken me time to learn that if I give her room shes going to come back which she has... shes has too many transitional objects for her to remember me by, she did catch me at a bad time yesterday I guess she sent a message to my phone about 2 hours before and I was sleep... so I was in the other room and I heard her call and woke up and spoke to her, well I guess she saw I opened her text message and she thought I was ignoring her but I said I just spoke to you on the phone. Long story short she said don't get mad when I ignore you as well but she said it with a :-) face.

And I said my bit then she was like good bye forever... but after I called a few times and sent her a text she recanted and said she was just joking then wished each other good night.

[alwaysloving]

I wonder if I should ask her why January again?

[alwaysloving]

rough day... .so yesterday she jumped to the conclusion that she will give me another try when I was trying to say something to her but she cut me off (was not getting back together) anyways the next day she says good morning and that she can't do this she could not sleep last night... she said it was anxiety and that she was sorry. few hours later she said sorry Mike I guess I'm just not that into you. I explained to her what I was going to say before she cut me off and all it was is just me telling her sometimes I just want to lay my head down on you nothing sexual at all and she felt bad... few hours later she tells me via text that she has to feel sad because she knows how I feel towards her and she doesn't feel the same she said she tried but she just can't.

Then not long after that she sends me a screen shot of this game she was playing and that was that... I was sleep so I never got to respond but I'm not sure what to say anyways.