Accusations...how to handle them

[Cloudy Days]

My husband was on a good medication for awhile and had stopped most of his accusations if not all. Now he is off that medication and on another one. It doesn't seem to be working. He's been accusing me of cheating on him every day. Yesterday I texted him to ask him if he wanted something from the store because I was getting ready to leave. He told me what he wanted and eventually I left for home. He calls me when I am almost home and asks me why I am not home and asks if I have been sucking someones D. It's something every day, I get accused every single day of cheating on him in some way. And his response is that this is who he is and I just have to deal with it. Is this really what I have to live with for the rest of my life if I stay with him?

I try to Validate but he always wants a direct answer of "No, I am not cheating on you", I even have to put in specific details such as "I have never cheated on you and I never will" to ease his mind or something. If I just say No I am not cheating on you he will say "not right now". Because in his mind every one plays games like that. But the fact of the matter is, that is how he plays games.  I am just so sick of it. It has gotten to the point where I just hate life because I know what I am going to go home to. He was so much different 6 months ago it just makes me so angry.

He's also gotten grumpier lately. I dread when he wakes up on the weekends because it means the end of my peaceful morning. I got one good text from him this morning and the he started b___ing about what I didn't do this morning for the dogs. If it wasn't that it would be something else, that I didn't lock the door on my way out or close the curtain or I was too loud when I left or something, he always finds something. He just picks and picks and picks until I just blow up at him and it ends up being an all day fight. I am losing my love, my patience and my faith in this man. I am not the codependent person I used to be, but I think I am angrier than I used to be too and he can see it. I am not happy, and I don't walk on eggshells anymore. He often tells me I need to be careful what I say or do. He wants me to be that little scared girl I used to be and now I am just angry and unhappy. We still have our good moments but they don't last very long and he is usually drunk during them. I don't know what to do at this point. I'm depressed and angry and he's doing nothing but making it worse. I work and he sits at home all day and does nothing. I have to come home and cook and clean when he has done nothing all day. He has plenty to do, and he has plenty of excuses for not doing them. I just need some insight, I don't want to live this way anymore. I'm not saying I want to leave, I just don't know what I want.

He doesn't have huge rages anymore, I think he has had one in the past year. So he has changed one thing and I know to walk away from him when things get too heated. I just don't know how to change the other things. That was what I was most afraid with him was his rages. Now that they have stopped I don't know how to make the other things better. I do validate but maybe not enough. I am just so tired of everything.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[sweetheart]

Sorry Cloudy Days, things at home sound grim and I can hear how fed-up you are.

Here is a link around the same issue, it has some good tips on validation and a great link on dealing with jealousy https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=180163.0

If it were me I would validate that he is feeling upset, I would not defend myself against an accusation of cheating by saying 'I'm not', you run the risk of validating the invalid here, and then I would excuse myself and say I have something to do... .

Avoiding at all costs the temptation to JADE here will be important as you know I'm sure. Eventually if you tighten up your responses it might start to lessen his reactivity around this issue.

[an0ught]

Hi Cloudy Days,

I try to Validate but he always wants a direct answer of "No, I am not cheating on you", I even have to put in specific details such as "I have never cheated on you and I never will" to ease his mind or something. If I just say No I am not cheating on you he will say "not right now". Because in his mind every one plays games like that. But the fact of the matter is, that is how he plays games.  I am just so sick of it. It has gotten to the point where I just hate life because I know what I am going to go home to. He was so much different 6 months ago it just makes me so angry.

There is a difference between what he wants and what he needs. Your answers are invalidating - he is unsure and you tell him to be sure. A validating (possibly too extreme) answer would be: "Sorry husband, no time, too many boyfriends to handle." A less extreme way to handle it would be to tell him that he is insecure and jealous.

He's also gotten grumpier lately. I dread when he wakes up on the weekends because it means the end of my peaceful morning. I got one good text from him this morning and the he started b___ing about what I didn't do this morning for the dogs. If it wasn't that it would be something else, that I didn't lock the door on my way out or close the curtain or I was too loud when I left or something, he always finds something. He just picks and picks and picks until I just blow up at him and it ends up being an all day fight. I am losing my love, my patience and my faith in this man. I am not the codependent person I used to be, but I think I am angrier than I used to be too and he can see it. I am not happy, and I don't walk on eggshells anymore. He often tells me I need to be careful what I say or do.

It pays to avoid invalidation and strive for validating communication simply because that is sense making. Beyond that - omelet  .

He wants me to be that little scared girl I used to be and now I am just angry and unhappy.

So tell him he wants a little girl and unfortunately he got now an adult women. It certainly validates his reality and yours.

We still have our good moments but they don't last very long and he is usually drunk during them.

Alcohol is a serious problem.

I don't know what to do at this point. I'm depressed and angry and he's doing nothing but making it worse. I work and he sits at home all day and does nothing. I have to come home and cook and clean when he has done nothing all day. He has plenty to do, and he has plenty of excuses for not doing them. I just need some insight, I don't want to live this way anymore. I'm not saying I want to leave, I just don't know what I want.

Boundaries, limit the effort you spend on fixing his world.

He doesn't have huge rages anymore, I think he has had one in the past year. So he has changed one thing and I know to walk away from him when things get too heated. I just don't know how to change the other things. That was what I was most afraid with him was his rages. Now that they have stopped I don't know how to make the other things better. I do validate but maybe not enough. I am just so tired of everything.

It still remains true that you can't fix him. You can however fix yourself. Possibly he takes a clue from you. And if not, well you are better off than having tried to fix the unfix-able.

[Hope26]

So sorry, Cloudy Days, for what you are going through.  From this and your other past posts, I think we have a fair amount of things in common.  My uBPDh has also stopped (most of the time) with the big rages, and that was formerly my hardest thing to deal with too. But, like you, I'd like to see some of the other BPD behaviors change.  Like the frequent grumpiness, the bossiness and controlling behavior.  What excuse does your husband give you for not working and therefore contributing something to your marriage?  Or is he too low-functioning to be able to hold down a job?  I think if my H neither worked nor helped around the house, it would be a deal-breaker for me.  We owe it to ourselves to expect our partners to make some kind of contribution toward the marriage, even though it may never be 50-50.

[formflier]

Is this really what I have to live with for the rest of my life if I stay with him?

This depends on the choices that you make.  Realize that you have a lot of power of this dynamic. 

I'm not saying this is your fault... .he is... .who he is.   That part is correct and you should accept that.

If he was a diabetic would you give him lots of sugar or other bad food?

He has an illness that you need to understand more about.  "Feeding" his issues around these accusations are bad for him and for you.

Hopefully we can find a new way forward that will help. 

I think that an0ught has some great suggestions to try.  Evaluate how those work and we'll go from there.

FF

[dacoming]

Cloudy Days, I completely understand what you are going through.  You remember my Walmart prohibition story from last week... .She is so constant with the accusations that I feel I can't take it anymore.  Between that and over talking me when discussions about these imaginary events take place, I have exploded myself which ends up with her blaming me for being the confrontational argumentative person now, not the kind and humble person she married who was "bigger than that," or so she says.  I try hard to ignore the accusations which leads her to say I'm so nonchalant and don't care about her feelings or her pushing and pushing with verbal abuse until I bite.  To top it all off, she constantly tells me she does not know why I changed so drastically because she feels she has improved as a wife by not going out clubbing and listening to what I say now versus doing what she wants when it comes to money or anything with no regard for what I feel.  When I tell her (as I have multiple times) how the accusations have gotten far worse and expand to all kinds of things other than cheating, she rages and accuses me of trying to project my issues onto her!  Sometimes I am at a loss for words... .I feel defeated and hopeless.  It's bad when you dread going home everyday and hate the weekends because you have to be around the upwBPD, walking on eggshells and praying nothing comes up.  Some days I start feeling weak and sick to my stomach when it's time to go home from work.

Try to keep your head up and pray about things.  I wish there was other advice I could offer but I don't have a clue how to deal with this and we are over 19 years of marriage.  

[Cloudy Days]

dacoming we are 9 years into it together and that is my fear, that in another 10 years things are going to be the same. I actually had a particularly decent weekend but it wasn't because my husband made it a good weekend. My Brother got out of Prison, yes lots of family problems here, but I was truly happy to see him. I lost my Grandmother and my Father in the past two years and he was in prison for the Past two years so it's nice to get a piece of my family back. My husband has been to Prison so it sort of helped my brother that he had someone to talk to about it.

As for my husband he started drinking yesterday at 2:00 which royally pissed me off. To Answer Hope26, my husband is Disabled, for anyone that knows how hard it is to get approved for Disability apparently my husband is crazy enough to prove it. It took 3 years but it finally got approved. His job now is to take care of our animals and I find myself doing that most of the time too, and he is suppose to mow the lawn and you know do manly jobs around the house. He is suppose to build me a closet this week because mine collapsed on me ( I have too much stuff... .) I told him I want to get done when I am gone. Because when I am there he gets frustrated with whatever it is he is doing and he cusses me out and calls me names and demands my help. I told him that's not going to happen on this project.

Monday's are usually a big day for accusations, I rather enjoy my weekends because I get so much done. I just enjoy it more when he is asleep  Yesterday I organized some of my closet and I went through a whole bunch of pictures I inherited from my grandmother. He wakes up and starts b___ing, I eventually had to stop to feed and water the cats outside to get him to shut up, something he could have done but wouldn't because he "just woke up"   I did finish it though, it made me happy to do it.

So when I get an accusation tossed my way today. What should I say? Whether it's a Outright, "have you been seeing someone" or just a hint. In the past I have Validated without denying and he then says, "well you didn't deny it's happening so it must be". That's why I feels so twisted on how to deal with it. He wants me to deny it but I know it goes against my best interest.

[sweetheart]

If you've tried various ways to work through this then if it were me I would not engage.

I would say something along the lines of ' I'm don't want to talk about this subject with you anymore' and walk away. You can repeat yourself and walk away as many times as you like, but eventually I would just walk away the moment he accuses you.

I suspect you might get an increase in dysregulated behaviours by way of extinction bursts. But if you make your boundary that you do not engage at least you are not drawn into JADEing by way of circular conversations and you are protecting your emotional well being.

[Cloudy Days]

I feel like I should say something, even if it is some sort of Validation. I've even resorted to asking him questions. Such as "what is making you feel that I am cheating on you?" His responses are feeling based of course, he just feels like I am.

[sweetheart]

With projections such as these with pwBPD the best option if you have tried all others is not to engage otherwise you end up either JADEing or validating the invalid.

What is it the keeps you engaged and responding when this is not working for you?

If I remember correctly alcohol can be part of the mix as well. I'm sure you will be aware that alcohol and BPD are a very poor mix indeed and definitely in my experience not one that responds to any kind of rational intervention.

[Cloudy Days]

A lot of the time I will call him on my way home from work and while we are having a perfectly good conversation he will slip in an accusation. Alcohol usually isn't an issue during this time, the alcohol actually clouds his thoughts some and he is nicer, I've asked him why he has to be drunk or stoned to be nice to me (he can't smoke pot now) it's when he keeps drinking that is the problem. He doesn't drink every day, and if he doesn't keep busy he will let his thoughts wander. It's more or less just a conversation that turns bad, and I do usually hang up the phone if it doesn't stop or gets worse. When we are home I will also leave the room or go outside, but I wish it didn't have to come to that. I can sometimes deflect the accusations or ignore them but they still get to you in the long run. It's like a hit to your ego or your heart more or less. A constant reminder "he doesn't trust you". That's what I hear when he says the things he says. It's the thought or feeling under the action. Maybe I should look at it more like, " I am insecure" rather than "I don't trust you". It's hard to do that when you feel hurt though. And then later in the night he knows I am acting different, I am down or sad or irritated, whatever you want to call it. It eats away your happiness little by little, I can't shake it off.

[formflier]

Maybe I should look at it more like, " I am insecure" rather than "I don't trust you". It's hard to do that when you feel hurt though.  . 

A very wise way to look at it.   

I like to use "right now" when I say things like that to myself.  Remember... .pwBPD feel things really intensely and then it will pass.

Another thing is to think of an accusation as a really bad thunderstorm.  They blow in... .and they blow out.  You are not going to have much effect on the thunderstorm... .it's up to you to go inside and not get struck by lightning or to get too wet.

So

First of all... .if they are demanding a denial... .never do that.  It's feeding an unhealthy way of them wanting attention. 

Let them be the ones to get upset... .leave them to their upsetness.  In other words... let them soothe themselves.

So, if the "slip in" an accusation, perhaps use one "canned" warning.  "I'm not discussing accusations... ." (note... that's very direct... .hopefully you can find a way with your hubby to validate and then warn).  If it persists... .leave the conversation.

Continued talking is just adding fuel to the fire.

If there is already a lot of energy... .as in he is yelling when he accuses... .just leave the conversation.  No need to warn.

FF

[Cloudy Days]

Thanks Formflier, I'll work on what I am going to say, cause I know it's going to happen. Actually didn't get an accusation last night, he didn't drink either but did turn into a jerk. I walked away and sorted some more pictures. He apologized 20 minutes later and I was still pretty hurt and sort of ignored the apology because I just feel like I always get apologies but he always does it again so is he really sorry? I think he just says it to get me to come back out and talk to him.

How are you able to shake off the hurt that they cause. After 10 years I get more angry than hurt and anger is harder to get rid of. I eventually went back out and watched TV with him but I stayed silent and basically brewed until I went to bed.

[formflier]

 

He was sorry "in that moment".

They have emotional memories that are very different than ours.  Please don't think right or wrong.

If you can find a way to be empathetic about their situation it will help you get over the hurt and resentment.

So... .he really was sorry... .and he really meant the hurtful things he said... .in the moment that they were said

That leaves a lot of hard work up to us to sort through fallout in our lives. 

FF

[Cloudy Days]

I have been having a hard time trusting him lately. Not like fidelity trust, just trusting what he says in general, I think it goes along with the anger. I don't want to be angry it's just there... .I've been sympathetic for a long time, had a lot of empathy for him for how he feels and what he has been through. I think it's the constant invalidation that I have had to deal with for 10 years that I am having a problem with. Any time I try to talk to him about the things you talk about with your spouse I get told that he had it worse. I don't know how you can compare this rotten apple to that rotten orange. They are both rotten, they both suck, they both make you sick (in my analogy at least). He's telling me now that he is going to go the courthouse and get a divorce from me because we fight too much. I told him that I don't even have the energy to fight with him and to leave me alone. He dragged our parents into the matter and said that neither of them fought as much as we do. It made me angry, because if he had ever listened to me in the 10 years we have been together he would know that my parents were extremely dysfunctional and fought every single day. It was a rare day that they didn't fight. And neither of them had a personality or mental disorder, they treated me and my brother fine, they just hated each other and never left each other so it kept happening. I can't say that my relationship with my husband is better but we don't fight that much because I put a lot of energy into avoiding fights. He puts most of his energy into creating them.

I think I have said this before but I feel so out of sorts, I am depressed I am still grieving from my Father dying, and angry and just all together feel drained. I have been slacking at my job, slacking at home with meals and even paying attention to my dogs. I'm just sick of life being so hard all the time. Thanks for letting me vent. I think I keep things in too much too, I always have. Me and my brother talked about it, we both hold our emotions in around other people. When I am alone it is different, I think that is why I cry in the car every day.

[an0ught]

I suspect a lot of us have learned how to stop feeling and focus on not crushing any eggs or whatever.

Once we take the lid off that pot it gets hard to keep it from boiling over.

The problems root is in the past and not with us. But the emotions are ours today and we have to deal with them. It is not fair but it is.

Boundaries are your friend  

[Cloudy Days]

So I think I had a small victory... .

He sent me this text "I don't want to go to your stupid work (he lost his house key and needed mine) I already feel like usual, ill thoughts. I don't feel right with us. If my senses are correct on every single other thing then you need to say something or I am just going to leave. I love you but I'm done living with us".

So one of the other things that has really been bothering me lately with him are divorce threats or just him saying he is going to leave. I responded with this "See, I've done nothing wrong and all you throw at me is mistrust, (could have left that out if I was thinking more with my heart) I don't know why you feel how you do, all I can say is that I love you and can imagine the distrust you feel causes you a lot of anguish. Please know that you can trust me, you are my best friend"

He didn't say anything after that, so it worked to stop the cycle for now. It still angered me, especially since we were having a good texting session before he figured out he had to come to my work. My work is a big trigger for him, I haven't invited him to come in for the specific reason that any time he comes even to the parking lot in the past he has accused me of cheating on him with someone walking through the parking lot. It used to be that bad before. supposedly they looked at him the wrong way   But anyways.

We had a pretty big talk last night and I asked him to work on stopping the divorce threats and he agreed.

[formflier]

 



For victories.

Let's talk for a minute about "push-pull" and chasing.  I'm a good better best kinda guy when trying to give advice.

I think you were solidly in better... .and depending on the dynamics of your r/s... .might even be in the best category.

Something to think about.

If someone is saying they don't trust you... .and you assure them that you are trustworth... .that can be invalidating

You are arguing with their feelings... .in a way.

How do you think empathy would have been received.

"How troubling this must be for you.  I'm here for you if you want to discuss this further... ."  or a variation on this.

Why did I mention "push pull"  Well... .when those dynamics are at play... you want to lessen the severity of the "comeback" to him.

So... .he says he hates you... .and that swings things way out towards hate.  You say you love him... .and that swings things way out that way.

The empathetic response I suggest might work to "center" things... .which could be calming.

How does that sound to you?  What do you think would happen by using a response similar to what I suggested.

FF

[Cloudy Days]

Suggestions are welcome, that's the whole reason I posted. I have read so much on Validation and the tools but it takes practice and trial and error to figure it out. I have never been good at verbal communication so this has totally been a struggle for me. I think failure at communication is me and my husband's biggest weakness in our relationship and I totally understand my part of that particular weakness.  I tend to just shut down when I feel attacked and I feel attacked a lot in this relationship.

I am going to think this over and figure out how I can put it in my words. It has to sound like me or he thinks I am being insincere. What would be a good response if I cannot talk at the moment? I've suggested we talk later at times and that usually makes him feel like I am busy being with someone else. He does this stuff so often while I am at work. While I would like to work things out in that moment it's just not realistic.

[formflier]

  he thinks I am being insincere.

do you need to worry about what he thinks?

Say it evenly... .and yes you should make an attempt to be sincere... .but if you twist yourself up into a ball trying to "make" him believe you are sincere... .you have missed the mark and expended a lot of energy... .wasted energy.

If you look at my posting style... .it is similar to the way I speak. 

I claim I am direct... .no beating around the bush.  Many would claim that I am rude, insensitive... .

I get that from my wife.  She has a point. 

I try to be more empathetic... .to say things better... .but I can't turn myself into a new person. 

I'm saying this because I'm in the same boat as you... .I struggle with saying things that come across "the right way".  Getting emotional about it won't help.

So... I focus on being calm and even... .saying it.  And if it sounds uncaring... .my wife is an adult and she can sort that out. 

FF

[Cloudy Days]

I guess what I am saying is it needs to sound like me or it just sounds like I am reading lines from a script and will feel awkward to me when I say it. If that makes any sense. I actually find your directness refreshing, I don't know many people like that. Most of the people I know beat around the bush and it pretty much drives me crazy. My husband has a tendency to do that and then blows up when I don't get what he is talking about and I'm like "Why didn't you just say it!" I don't have room for small talk and would rather just get to the point most of the time.

[formflier]

 

It will feel awkward when you say it.

You are going to have to convince yourself ahead of time that it is the right thing and say it because it is the right thing to say... .

I still feel awkward trying to validate and say some of the stuff.  It works though... .and it doesn't "feel" as bad as it used to.

Do you know a foreign language... .?  This is very much like learning one... .

FF

[Cloudy Days]

I've taken a French class but that was a long time ago and can say like two lines... . But it was awkward so I get what you mean.

My husband decided to drink last night and decided he wasn't drunk enough and went off to the store to get more after I requested he not go because that would be drinking and driving. I tried to stay away from him or just watch TV for most of the night. This is the kind of thing that makes it harder to Validate. I know for a fact he will feel like dookie when he wakes up which usually makes him cranky but he totally deserves it. He goes on these drinking binges, starts at 2:00 and then eats a ton of food later in the night while drunk then feels like crap for several days and says he's never going to drink again. That was him last night. Mean while I was trying to go to sleep and he comes into the bedroom and tried to have a conversation with me while he is plastered. I hate being sober around drunk people, they act like children and I have no patience for it.

[formflier]

 

Have you considered calling the police when you know he is driving drunk? 

Hiding keys? 

Serious stuff going on here around alcohol.

FF

[Cloudy Days]

He is on probation and would be sent to jail for two years, it's not in my best interest to have him arrested. I would basically lose my home and have to sell most of what I own and get rid of several of my dogs, I depend on his income. This is the first time he has driven drunk, I am usually the designated driver if we go anywhere. I honestly didn't think he would leave or I would have done more to stop it. I looked outside and he was gone, even took my phone. He was back 5 minutes later and I pretty much just stayed away from him after that.

[an0ught]

So he was driving drunk and there were no consequences. And the consequences of no consequences will be... .

[Cloudy Days]

I told him I wasn't happy about it and he was lucky. What consequences are you suggesting I place on him? I'm not calling the cops when it will severely ruin my life as well as his... .You also can't really talk to a drunk person with BPD, it was best for me to just stay away from him. I need suggestions on how to handle things, I understand he needs consequenses. I don't think there are very many people who would call the cops on their spouse knowing it would basically end the relationship and severely change your entire life for the worst. It's not a small decision and not one I was prepared to do yesterday. Obviously if this keeps happening I will prepare to leave the relationship, but it's a first time thing. I am dealing with a lot of anger towards him and how to deal with him. He had stopped drinking for 3 years. I have asked questions in the past and didn't get any good suggestions or answers about what to do about him drinking again. I am at a loss and feel very alone.

[KateCat]

Make this one your line in the sand, Cloudy Days.

Not one more incidence of drunk driving.

I think if you have the proper discussion about this, you will win on this issue. Powerful points in your favor are 1) he's not a chronic drunk driver (no habit to break); 2) one call from you and his probation is revoked; 3) he maintained sobriety for a full three years.

So I think you can just say no to drunk driving by having the courage to do it during a calm moment of dialogue.

I had a parent who drove drunk. (I think maybe you did too.) But this is now and it's up to us to make sure our spouses have proper notice that we won't tolerate it. I don't have kids (and I think you don't either), but drunk drivers kill other people's kids, and that is a chance none of us want to take.

This is the good fight, Cloudy Days, and I think you'll feel much more optimistic for fighting--and winning--this one.

You've written about all the progress you've made this past year, and of how you love your new home. What's happening now was probably always in the cards. Your husband is slipping up. He's losing focus and forgetting the incarceration experience and wavering in his resolve. It's up to you to be strong now and to have boundaries, because there's no one else to do it.

You've overcome a lot in life. If you don't have a counselor to talk with, then I suggest you take a moment to pat yourself on the back; gather your resolve; and prepare to take charge and state your truths to your husband.   

[Cloudy Days]

I guess I just don't expect drinking and driving to happen again. My parents didn't drink and drive, they got drunk at home, my father killed himself with alcohol basically. So I hate alcohol and I do know that it is serious, I really hate alcohol. I feel like progress is going backwards because of it too, I keep getting empty promises from him. They aren't things like drinking and driving though. Like I said before, I didn't actually expect him to leave and I looked outside and he was gone, I was seeing red when he came home. It's the drinking that causes him to make these seriously stupid decisions. He doesn't do this kind of crap sober, cause he is sober.  I need to figure out how to get him to stop the drinking... .But I don't have those answers.

[KateCat]

Are there any services his P.O. can connect him with at a time like this?

I had a colleague who had been a probation officer for juvenile offenders, and his descriptions of his interactions with his clients didn't sound very inspiring. As though these folks are kind of cut loose to deal with their own weaknesses instead of having the support of organized group activities (like work or community service).

My thought was that these guys would have been much better served to have a kind of hands-on "leader of the pack" guide than an office-bound probation officer. But I guess that would violate all kinds of constitutional rights.

I think you've got a handle on this driving business. It just seems worrisome that your husband is in a psychological decline and there's no clear counter-force to shore him up. As if the burden of his success or failure is on only you.