Conversation gone bad- can I do anything differently?

[LilMe]

Here is a typical interaction with my uBPDh-

We are both walking into the room our 6 year old son is in.  Everything seemed fine to me.

Me: I think son is not feeling well today.

Me: Are you feeling bad, son?

Son:  Yes.

uBPDh:  What feels bad?

Son:  My chest.

Me:  I heard... .(tried to say I heard him coughing, but was interrupted by yelling).

uBPDh:  You are so codependent you won't even let me talk to my own child.  Stay out of my conversations with my child... .you are such a b****... .you won't allow me to talk to anyone... .(on and on and on for several minutes).

Me:  Stayed silent and left the room while he continued to yell at me while son plugged his ears.

When he comes out of the room a few minutes later; acts like nothing happened.

Can I do anything to help avoid this?  It makes me crazy.  I generally try not say anything when he is talking because of this reason (yes, it makes it almost impossible to have a conversation with him or anyone else!).  I feel really stupid because I usually don't see it coming!

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[formflier]

 

LilMe,

You are doing a lot of what I used to do.

When I read your interaction... .I see an assumption or a way of looking a the world where you "help" or "fix" things.



I'm still struggling with validation.  But for many items... .I attempt to validate feelings but give ZERO suggestions or offer ZERO help unless specifically asked for help.

Clarify roles.

Me:  I think son is not feeling well today

Me:  (to hubby) Would you like to handle this or would you like me to?

Go from there.

Or... .keep same conversation.

When uBPDh says "You are... ".  Turn and walk from the room.  Never speak of it again... .

If he wants to discuss a concern with you he can do it properly, respectfully or you will take your ears elsewhere.  

Which pathway do you think will work better in your r/s?

FF

[LilMe]

  OK.  Good point!  I was entering the room to deal with son; uBPDh was entering the room for a different reason.  I should not have involved him or as you said - given him the option of becoming involved.  Duh me!  Sometimes it is hard to see the forest through the trees!

I have given up on validating for now.  uBPDh said that people repeat what you say back to you to show how stupid you sound.    If I try to do the 'I can see how you would feel that way' he tells me to stop using psychobabble on him!

At least he didn't stay mad for long 

[patientandclear]

There was a third party involved -- your son. YOU have every right to have a conversation with your kid about how he's feeling without being interrupted and scolded, which is what happened here.

If it were just the two of you involved, maybe there's a wider range of options. But I don't see either of the options FF sketched out feeling too great from the kid's POV. One parent shouldn't be seen to cede all authority to handle a kid's illness to the whim of the other ("do you want to handle this or should I?"  But leaving the room and never speaking of it again does not send a good message to the kid either. Kid in either case is at the mercy of a bully, which is pretty scary (even when you're not sick).

Kids need to know the other parent is not powerless or cowed. i don't see either of the options FF laid out providing any feeling of security or reassurance for the kid. And in your story, I don't see how you could have known not to let him into that conversation. What does that even mean? You made an observation to your partner about the health of your child. There's no planet on which that's a "d'oh!" mistake. His response sucked. But you can't deal with that by never letting him into a conversation!

I think FF (hi!) often has brilliant insights about BPD dynamics among the adults, but situations implicating kids seem to me to require a willingness to do the right thing for the kid even if it's not a great thing for your adult r/ship.

[formflier]

 

Bad on me for not expanding on this a bit.

I was not looking at kid angle.

When I say never speak of it again... that is to the hubby.  And... .that sort of assumes the topic remains "nuclear".  If you were approached respectfully... .by all means speak about the issue in a respectful manner and if it turns bad... .leave.

The point is not a power struggle over whether or not to speak on an issue.  The point is that YOU not allow yourself to be spoken to in a disrespectful (abusive) manner.  YOU (the non) controls that (for the most part).

I'm still going to stick with leave the room for abusive talk from point of view of the kid.  We know that these things blow through... .like a thunderstorm... .there is a lot of energy for a while and then things clear.  Staying in the room for a "you can't talk to me that way... "  "yes I can" debate in front of the kid... .is not good.

Unfortunately that can "feel" like ceding power to the disordered person.  That's tough.  I'm a military guy.  Retreat is not bad.  Surrender usually is.  Leaving a room to come back later and talk to kid in person is a retreat. 

It's being smart.


OK... I think I covered all the stuff I should have... .first time around.   

Validation:  OK... .going back to my military roots.  Don't shoot unless you have a good target.

So... ."What are you feeling right now?"   (him)  "I'm angry... ."   Now you can shoot with confidence.

"What are you feeling right now?"  (him) "why do you always ask about my feelings you blah blah blah"

You don't have a clear target.  This is invitation to fight.  Ignore it... .don't take the bait.  You tried... .just move along.

FF

[formflier]

 

I had to cut that last post a bit short.  Some people were coming and I had to post and quit typing.

Anyway... .assumptions seem to be the place where pwBPD and their nons get off track.

On the one hand... .you are not responsible for all of their assumptions.

If there have never been issues around care for a child... .then... .hard for you to foresee this.

If this is repetitive.  Then I would challenge you to remove the vagueness from the situation.

"I am concerned about a cough... "  "Can you go get me some medicine (name it)"

If the situation is unsure... .ask him to bring a glass of water.  The water is inconsequential.  The point is you have filled his mind with something positive he can do... .vice him evaluating things as "against" him.

Remember... .leaving an idle disordered mind to it's own devices in a stressful... .triggering situation is usually not good.

If you can nudge it in right direction... .do so.  

FF

[LilMe]

I think you are both right, patientandclear.  I have to choose my battles.  And not in front of the children when I can help it.  They get enough chaos.  There are times when I must, calmly, hold my ground on certain issues.  But in this case, it was better to pull back and let the fire fizzle out, then tend to the child later.

I admit, one of the big problems I have a hard time dealing with is the disrespect and controlling I allow from uBPDh in front of the children.  He really does control me physically, legally, and financially.  I am reducing the control little by little, but it will take a loong time at the rate I am going!  At times I can see how my son is not handling it well.  I have a very good, close relationship with all my children and try to talk about these issues when the opportunity arises - like when they ask questions that I can answer in an impartial way.

Thanks for the insights, everyone.  It really helps to have other perspectives.  It is sometimes hard to see the different angles myself!

[formflier]

 

Is uBPDh the bio father of the children?

Having kids involved creates competing audiences.

There is the pwBPD traits that may "need" to hear one thing and then there is the child that "needs to hear other things.

Delicate balancing act.

Lately I have chosen to say things to kids in front of my wife that wife didn't take to well.  But they were simple truths that needed to be said. 

I didn't dwell on them. 

The kids can sort out in their own mind the "what's up" with mom dysregulating about what was said.

LilMe,

Looking forward to learning more about your story.  I wish you well as you take back your control.

FF

[LilMe]

Yes, FF, he is their bio father.  Otherwise I would be long gone!  None of my or his children from previous marriages will be around him.  Sadly, he can be an amazing father (and step-father).  But then there is the controlling, manipulating, raging side that shadows the good.

[formflier]

 But then there is the controlling, manipulating, raging side that shadows the good.

Yep... .that is the frustrating side of this.  

Today has been a great day with my wife.  I enjoy it when it is like that.  Make the best of things when she is in a mood.

I'm convinced that letting her sort her own moods out has lessened them... .and certainly taken a lot of the crazy out of my life... .and that of our children.

Lately she has had a few really bad weeks.  I was a bit off my game at first.

How often do you get raged at... .as you described in your post?

FF

[LilMe]

Yep, FF.  Children are pretty smart.  DD7 ran in yesterday and said ':)addy wants us.  We better get out there quick - he is not in the best of moods.'  She also recently asked me 'why does he get so mad about normal things?'.

Lately he has a little rage at me about once a day on average.  He will go a couple weeks without raging, then be in a seemingly constant rage for a couple of weeks, then it goes down to once a day for a couple weeks, then back to a couple weeks of peace.  I think he is really trying to control it.  Sometimes stressful events happen that throw the cycle off.  His parents are coming in a week - that is usually a big trigger  :'(