Spouse with BPD please need help

[Pammytelulah]

Hi, Im new to this forum and need help in understanding my relationship with my BP spouse.  I have been married to him for 11 years.  I have always know something was wrong with him but could never understand what IT was. I married him when I was 29 and had two children from a previous marriage ages 5,7.  I was widowed so he was the only farther they have known.   The first 5 years of our marriage was spent fighting.  He would constantly tell me how we could never bond because of my two kids.  Something he never expressed to me while dating. Dated for 3 years.  He was never happy, but he always told me I wasn't happy.  He constantly criticized how I interacted with people, creating doubt in myself.  He never wanted to go to concerts because "my time for having fun was over."  He hated it when I wanted to do anything with my friends, creating conflict and impossible scenarios  so I wouldn't be able to go.  He was selfish, manipulating, condescending, attacking, and would constantly self medicate with marijuana.  He loved me  one minuet and hated me   the next.  I was always felt like I was walking on egg-shells.  When we would fight it always escalated into craziness.  He would follow me throughout the house, yelling, screaming, and never being able to let it go. I would tell him the children could hear, but that only made it worse.   He would fly off the handle for no reason.   We have one child together.  He loves her, is really good to her.  She got easter egg dye on her fingers when she 5 from dying eggs.  He flipped, and was so made at me, because I didn't have her use gloves.  Crazy making.  He dislikes my family calling them simple, ignorance is bliss, he would say. My family is good, truly good people who never criticize anyone.  Come to find out he was intimated by our ability to truly love people, he hated himself so much.  Around the 6 year mark I had a melt-down.  I couldn't take it anymore.  I had to get on an antidepressant, my joints starting to cause me extreme pain, I told him I was falling out of love with him and found an excellent counselor.  I knew it was bad, he knew it was bad.  I told the counselor I felt like he was the my trail, jury, and executioner all in one.  He went once.  It was terrible.  We went to Chicago and he told me that he would rather divorce me then to have to reveal his insecurities.  Fast forward 3 years. Things have started to settle down because he was no longer in the marriage.  He stopped caring, and I suppose I had stopped as well.  On one hand it was nice to not feel so scrutinized by him, on the other it felt so horrible to not be loved by him.  I read every self-help book their was, sent him e-mails expressing my sadness over our loss of relationship.  He didn't care.  I found out this past June by a text message he had been having an affair. Started about the time I had us go to counseling 3 years prior.   The pain I felt was beyond description.  It took 4 excruciating  months for him to finally tell me all the details without the constant lying.  One lie would reveal another lie that he was covering for the original lie.  This affair was over 3 years with   his secretary who is 20 years younger then him, 15 years younger then me.  He was 42 she was 22 and unmarried.  She moved within 3 miles of our house to be with him.  I worked part-time nights as a nurse and he would tell our older daughter he was leaving to go to work, but instead would see her.  My older actually thought he was having an affair and brought this up to my mom and son.  Who told her not to worry he would never do that to me.  He never used protection, and the first time he had sex with her was in our house.  He told me it was on again off again, he never loved her, but he did tell her that he did.  He said it was only about the sex.  Telling me the details of her doing anything he asked, when he asked. {i wanted to know} He called her and he let her know how long he was going to tell me the affair lasted.  He called her and gave me the phone so she could tell me what he was unable to tell me, how long the affair actually lasted.  I told him it was over I wanted a divorce.  He had a mental breakdown, and he had to be committed into a psych ward for 5 days diagnoses suicidal ideation.  I kicked him out of the house, he would call me 25 times a day, crying, begging, pleading for hours.  I finally starting blocking his call.  He starting gambling and I had to close down all the checking accounts.  He has stalked me when out in public.  When he wears me down and comes back home, he follows me around the house, I couldn't take a shower by myself he  constantly comes in.  He uses sex in a completely inappropriate way.  Believing that is the only way to be close, and believing all is fine as long as I am enthusiastic about the performance.  The divorce papers will be delivered to him in a few days.  Then I come across BPD, and thats it, its him.  Now I'm faced with a dilemma.  Do I attempt to give it another try, now that I know what he has been suffering from?  My older kids and my family have completely written him off and will write me off as well if I take him back.  Do I try for our 9 year old daughter?  Do I try for our house, our dreams, our friends, our future?  So much to lose, so much to gain?  I'm not sure if he is even capable of getting well.  He has been going to therapy, taking antidepressants, says he's done with the girlfriend.  Wants the opportunity to be a better man, husband, father, and friend.  He is an emotional wreck, lost 20 pounds, still cries, pleads, and begs to come back home.  I know we can't live under the same roof.  This is the ONLY thing I do know.  He is living with his parents, and finally found a part time job.  This man has his PhD. 

Not only do I have to deal with him, I would have to learn about BPD, and get over his betrayal which I am finding impossible to do. Any advice would be appreciated. 

[ArleighBurke]

Wow. You have certainly been doing it tough! That sounds like an emotional rollercoaster and you and your daughter must be feeling quite drained. Living with a BPD partner is a very trying experience.

Do you have support? Do you have friends you can talk to about this? Have you talked with his parents? Your mental health is very important. A decision like this is going to take time. There is a lot of hurt - I can feel that - but you also express a lot of love.

You mention he's in therapy. What kind? BPD related?

[Panda39]

Hi Pammytelulah,

Welcome to the BPD Family   

You have had a rough time in your marriage and have put a lot of effort into making it work.  Only you can decide whether or not to end your marriage, but you've come to a great place to talk it out and get many different perspectives.  Before you decide I would suggest that you do some reading about BPD so you get a good understanding of what BPD is.  When I first discovered BPD I just went to my local library and was able to find several books that helped me get a better understanding of what it was all about.

Two things... .

First how would you describe your boundaries?  For myself the affair would be a deal breaker for example.  (I'm not judging many people handle this in different ways and look at commitment and marriage from different perspectives).  Below are a couple of links you might want to check out and think about in terms of your specific situation.

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a120.htm

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

Second, one very important thing that I have learned since being on these boards is that we can only change or control ourselves and our actions... .we cannot make anyone else do something they don't want to do. Just something to keep in mind. 

Okay I think I have a third piece of advice   Moving forward besides listening to his words pay attention to his actions... .do they match?

I also want to point out the links in the box to the right check them out when you have time--------------------------------------------->

Again welcome   I know you will find support, encouragement and understanding from the members here.

Take Care,

Panda39

[Ceruleanblue]

Welcome!

It does sound like you've tried hard, and been put through a lot. It's hard knowing what the right thing to do is, I've been there. I want my marriage to work too, but I have been weighing the cost. I mean, things always seem like you could make them work when you have two people committed to that, and mental illness is not part of the equation. When you have BPD(or any PD) in the mix, it certainly changes what the outcome might be. Lots of people here, manage to use the tools(they are linked on the right), and it does make a huge difference in their marriage. There are others of us though, that use the tools, and they aren't as effective. I think a lot of that has to do with how functional the BPD is that we are working with, and our ability to not personalize it so much, and it certainly helps if the pwBPD gets help, or is committed to taking some responsibility, and isn't in complete denial.

It sounds like your husband knows something is going on with him? Now, my BPDh has had moments of that too, and I was like "yeah, he gets it!", but he'd revert back to thinking it was all me, and blaming me for everything. I'll take my part in the dance, but I will no longer allow him to lay total blame at my feet, and he really still wants to do that. I think marriages that survive either have one really tough "non", or have a pwBPD that is high functioning and not totally destroying the relationship.

If you aren't, I'd get into personal therapy. It's really helped me.

[pallavirajsinghani]

Then I come across BPD, and thats it, its him.  Now I'm faced with a dilemma.  Do I attempt to give it another try, now that I know what he has been suffering from?  My older kids and my family have completely written him off and will write me off as well if I take him back.  Do I try for our 9 year old daughter?  Do I try for our house, our dreams, our friends, our future?  So much to lose, so much to gain?  I'm not sure if he is even capable of getting well.

Since you asked for an opinion:  Here is mine... .and I am expressing my opinion using primarily your own words because your intuition has already told you what I am going to say... .your brain has not yet caught up with your heart... .

Knowing that he has BPD does not change anything.  Your awareness has not resulted in change in his behavior, actions, words.

No, do not attempt to give it another try, now that you know what he has been suffering from.  Your older kids and your family have completely written him off and will write you off as well if you take him back so you will lose all of your support system... .and that loss again makes a relationship with a BPD sufferer impossibly unhappy.   Do not try for your 9 year old daughter as you will begin to resent her and start unconsciously holding her responsible for your own unhappiness.  No, you should try for your house, your dreams, your friends, your future without him.  There is little to lose by losing him and much to gain.  You are not sure if he is even capable of getting well and there is no guaranty that he will want you and not the 22 year old secretary even when he gets well.

Yet, there are success stories... .if he is indeed serious, ask him to go with you to a therapist who specializes in personality disorders and request a "therapeutic separation".  This is a monitored separation whereby each partner works on their issues in order to get healthier... .and there may be counseling for children involved too.

Please read both the staying board and the leaving/undecided boards... .

Stay strong... .my thoughts and prayers are with you tonight... .

[JohnLove]

Hi, Im new to this forum and need help in understanding my relationship with my BP spouse.  

Now I'm faced with a dilemma.  :)o I attempt to give it another try, now that I know what he has bMy older kids and my family have completely written him off and will write me off as well if I take him back.  :)o I try for our 9 year old daughter?  :)o I try for our house, our dreams, our friends, our future?  So much to lose, so much to gain?  I'm not sure if he is even capable of getting well.  He has been going to therapy, taking antidepressants, says he's done with the girlfriend.  Wants the opportunity to be a better man, husband, father, and friend.

Hello Pammytelulah, what you have been through sounds so agonising. I truly feel for the dreadful predicament you have now found yourself in.

You need to focus on yourself and take care of your children. He couldn't bond with you over them?... .what a load of ROT! He couldn't bond with you over his insecurities and fear of intimacy. To place blame on your children is disgusting, but that's exactly the person you are dealing with.

But truly, there is no dilemma. You may have recieved some clarity for yourself with the label BPD but does that really change anything? It is what it is. He has caused you and your family so much damage. You have ALREADY lost. There is not a lot to gain.

I know what it means to give up on your dreams. It is truly heartbreaking, but if you desire to continue with this man you better get yourself a new dream because how you have been living is nothing short of a nightmare.

If he is committed to therapy and working on himself then you may give him a chance to prove it to you but really this would be a long hard road at best... .and a continuance of what you have endured or even worse at worst. These relationships often go backwards.

I have been at a similar crossroads where my friends and family had "written off" my exBPD and clearly explained to me (once I was forced to leave) that if I went back they would "write me off" as well. Why? In my case it was because they are true friends and they couldn't bear to see me hurting myself. That's right. They loved me and were unable to bear witness to any more carnage. They held me in higher esteem than I was holding myself. There's something really wrong with that and was a wake up call. Needless to say despite 3 children I moved forward.

You are not sure if he is capable of getting well?... .quite frankly, neither am I.

[Pammytelulah]

Thank you for all the advice, I truly appreciate it.  I went with my husband to see his  therapist to discuss the possibility of healing and continuing our marriage.  I told his therapist about his violent behavior, bringing our largest kitchen  knife into the bathroom while I was taking a shower and  holding it to his chest   wanting me to plunge it in to end the pain.  Scared me to death.  Changing the locks, etc... .I could unfortunately go on.  This therapist told me I was not to see him by myself and that we would have to date at least a year before he should move back into my house.  Why I choose to ignore his aggression and the feelings of fear, I will never know, but this man I could tell was truly concerned about my safety.  The therapist told my husband it was a gift I hadn't left years ago and that my boundaries he should respect if any reconciliation can occur.  My husband sat beside me, crying, begging, and pleading for me to let him back into the house.  The  only way he said to show me he is a better man is to show me.  This can only be done living with me.  As I write this I have received a call from my  lawyer.  The papers are completed I just have to serve him.  I know I will do this, it breaks my heart.  I will just need to figure out how to serve him in a safe environment.  It feels like such a loss.  However, I know this grief will ease and I will be all the better for it, I unfortunately can't say this about my husband. 

[JohnLove]

Thank you for all the advice, I truly appreciate it.  I went with my husband to see his  therapist to discuss the possibility of healing and continuing our marriage.  I told his therapist about his violent behavior, bringing our largest kitchen  knife into the bathroom while I was taking a shower and  holding it to his chest   wanting me to plunge it in to end the pain.  Scared me to death.  Changing the locks, etc... .I could unfortunately go on.  This therapist told me I was not to see him by myself and that we would have to date at least a year before he should move back into my house.  Why I choose to ignore his aggression and the feelings of fear, I will never know, but this man I could tell was truly concerned about my safety.  The therapist told my husband it was a gift I hadn't left years ago and that my boundaries he should respect if any reconciliation can occur.  My husband sat beside me, crying, begging, and pleading for me to let him back into the house.  The  only way he said to show me he is a better man is to show me.  This can only be done living with me.  As I write this I have received a call from my  lawyer.  The papers are completed I just have to serve him.  I know I will do this, it breaks my heart.  I will just need to figure out how to serve him in a safe environment.  It feels like such a loss.  However, I know this grief will ease and I will be all the better for it, I unfortunately can't say this about my husband. 

Honestly Pammytelulah, I believe you are doing what is right for you. Going with your husband to see his therapist was a very positive step if you were considering reconciliation.

The shower incident is alarming and very telling. This man is very sick and it is not your doing or responsibility. I would suggest he is a master of the bait and switch. I'm quite sure he wouldve been the first to call 911 had you taken the opportunity to "help" him. You would've been guilty of the worst abuse and that would validate his distorted reality.

His therapist was giving you great advice and you sensed his genuine concern. Why your husband doesn't show you the same concern for your wellbeing, you might have to ask yourself. The suggestion to date (or spend time) a year before co-habiting was superb. You would need a safe place to retreat when you need. The therapist also gave your husband very good advice and a healthy dose of reality.

The ONLY way is to live with you?... .that is not at all true. He has many options to achieve this. The bait and switch AGAIN... .you and I both know that his behaviour would regress if he was able to gain a foothold in your home.

You do not have to serve him yourself. The sheriff or a process server will do it for a very low fee and then he cannot say he wasn't served.

The loss of a dream is heartbreaking. I know this first hand. A new dream will follow that will be so much bigger and better than this.

Your final sentence was most telling. I am glad you are feeling positive.

[pallavirajsinghani]

Hello Pammy:

I am a DV survivor too.  All the time I felt sorry for my ex husband.  Now do you wonder why the abused person feels sorry for the abuser?  Go figure that!

What you are feeling---sympathy for him, sense of loss, your desire to heal him... .these are ingrained qualities of a good human being.  In fact, one of the criteria of insanity is "lack of altruism".  You have a nurturing instinct, a loving heart.  You want to heal him, to take his pain away.  I did not leave my husband even when he slapped me in public in a very crowded place.  And I did not do it because,  1) I felt that I deserved it, 2) that marriage was a commitment   3) social norms related to a divorced woman   4) feeling sorry for him... .wanting to take his pain away somehow   and I can go on with more reasons... .on and on... .

... .little did I know then that I was just a trigger, the tiny little ineffectual weightless straw that would break the camel's back over and over and over. 

and I only left after breaking a noose around my neck and then jumping out of a running car... .this is when animal instinct for survival took over.  After that, I spent 8 years feeling worthless and that I had committed some horrible crime and broken some sacred covenant... .because if I were a good wife then he wouldn't have been abusive... .Right?

Now I have the most fantastic normal marriage, two healthy happy children, no drama, loving relationships all around... .if only my past self could see my future self... .

I am telling you my story to communicate to you that you are not alone, and that there is hope and that you can feel sorry for him because he is the one who is mentally disordered and you are not.  Somewhere underneath your guilt and sorrow and shame... .is a kernal of happiness.  Soon this kernal will sprout into a little plant then a sapling and then one day, you will be a tall strong oak like me, sitting at your kitchen table surrounded by loved ones, reaching out to those who need to hear a first hand story that good things happen too... .

First priority is your physical safety.

What do you mean by serving him in a safe environment... .safe for whom?

He has developed life long coping skills of his own... .he will cope... .with the subpoena and the divorce.  In fact my ex husband got married six months after our divorce while it took me 8 years just to accept that my leaving him was not an immoral act.

It is ok to care for him... .for that is the best part of you.  But it is NOT ok to take care of him at the cost of your own self... .for that is sacrilege. 

For you are God's creature too... .Divinity shines in and through and around you... .to allow yourself to be hurt is to insult divinity.  It's ok to save yourself.  It's ok for you to let him save himself.

Sending a lot of big sister hugs to you... .

God Bless... .

[kairorose]

Hello Pammy:

I am a DV survivor too.  All the time I felt sorry for my ex husband.  Now do you wonder why the abused person feels sorry for the abuser?  Go figure that!

What you are feeling---sympathy for him, sense of loss, your desire to heal him... .these are ingrained qualities of a good human being.  In fact, one of the criteria of insanity is "lack of altruism".  You have a nurturing instinct, a loving heart.  You want to heal him, to take his pain away.  I did not leave my husband even when he slapped me in public in a very crowded place.  And I did not do it because,  1) I felt that I deserved it, 2) that marriage was a commitment   3) social norms related to a divorced woman   4) feeling sorry for him... .wanting to take his pain away somehow   and I can go on with more reasons... .on and on... .

... .little did I know then that I was just a trigger, the tiny little ineffectual weightless straw that would break the camel's back over and over and over. 

and I only left after breaking a noose around my neck and then jumping out of a running car... .this is when animal instinct for survival took over.  After that, I spent 8 years feeling worthless and that I had committed some horrible crime and broken some sacred covenant... .because if I were a good wife then he wouldn't have been abusive... .Right?

Now I have the most fantastic normal marriage, two healthy happy children, no drama, loving relationships all around... .if only my past self could see my future self... .

I am telling you my story to communicate to you that you are not alone, and that there is hope and that you can feel sorry for him because he is the one who is mentally disordered and you are not.  Somewhere underneath your guilt and sorrow and shame... .is a kernal of happiness.  Soon this kernal will sprout into a little plant then a sapling and then one day, you will be a tall strong oak like me, sitting at your kitchen table surrounded by loved ones, reaching out to those who need to hear a first hand story that good things happen too... .

First priority is your physical safety.

What do you mean by serving him in a safe environment... .safe for whom?

He has developed life long coping skills of his own... .he will cope... .with the subpoena and the divorce.  In fact my ex husband got married six months after our divorce while it took me 8 years just to accept that my leaving him was not an immoral act.

It is ok to care for him... .for that is the best part of you.  But it is NOT ok to take care of him at the cost of your own self... .for that is sacrilege. 

For you are God's creature too... .Divinity shines in and through and around you... .to allow yourself to be hurt is to insult divinity.  It's ok to save yourself.  It's ok for you to let him save himself.

Sending a lot of big sister hugs to you... .

God Bless... .

[kairorose]

loved the last post! esp "if my past self could only see my future self"

I wish for that... .it feels almost impossible to let go of my stormy relationship as well with my BPD bf