Planning to meet a lawyer

[Aaron1979]

Hello,

I've posted here before about my Bpd spouse in the undecided and staying sections and I'm just letting you know what I'm thinking and doing.

I've made great progress on what I need to do with Bpd behavior.  I put up boundaries and enforced them, realized that I need to take care of myself first and actually did that.  I took authority.  This is after she had done all kinds of crazy stuff before.

One of the therapists that I was seeing said to set her off on purpose so she can get examined by a hospital and said going to a church that my wife didn't like (because the pastors know everything about her) would do that.  When I was going to an appointment with a therapist I let her know I'll be back in a couple hours but I need to keep this appointment.  In response She ran outside screaming when the kids were in the apartment and physically grabbed the car.  That's when she told my 4 year old son ":)addy's leaving me."  My wife has said that the therapist is helping me before so maybe she thinks the therapist is taking her husband away from her.  She also has said "Where's my husband" after I made changes.  

I wondered why I couldn't bring myself to go to that church or do anything that may set my wife off.  I know that I'm not supposed to walk on eggshells but I also have two little kids in the house.  I realize that my wife is damaging my kids and I don't want that to happen again.  That's what's keeping me from doing that.  My wife is not going to counseling.  I decided to let her go to counseling without me bothering her about it or force her to go and she's not going.  

I have an appointment with a lawyer to ask for advice and it seems the best option is a divorce if I want my kids and myself safe.  I hope I'm doing the right thing. If you have any ideas let me know please.

Thank you  

[Beacher]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. It must be so difficult with your children. If she's running outside screaming that's a very bad sign. My husband is very concerned about others perception of him and only seems to flip out in the safety of our home. I love him but know I need to get some legal advice also, I know in his fear of my abandoning him he has retained one already. It's time to explore our options and be safe, especially you for your children. Has she flat out refused to see a therapist? If she's exhibiting this behavior maybe next time call an ambulance, maybe you can get her admitted and evaluated that way. Stay strong, we are all here for you.

[Michelle27]

After a decade of mostly keeping his rages in the privacy of our own home, he started to lose it in the year before I ended the marriage.  At least 3 of our friends saw things for the first time that I had described but they had a hard time believing to be true.  I think he sensed that I was on the way out the door (well, to be fair, I as much as told him I was) and he started to lose it.  By the time I ended the marriage for good (after a 3 month therapeutic separation) I was truly afraid of him and what he might be capable of. I'm so glad now to be out now.  Be careful but do whatever you feel the need to do to protect yourself.

[Aaron1979]

Most of the time she has refused to see a therapist.  The only time she did was when I took the children out of the house for a day because of her abuse.  She went for a while, caused the therapist to victim blame me and when I wouldn't have any of it continued to blame me.  She doesn't want to go to the therapist because the therapist is not on her side now and the therapist is helping me.

[Aaron1979]

I also have also called the ambulance when she tried suicide threats and hyperventilating to cause me to stay home from work, appointments, church, and when she didn't have control of me.  The interesting thing was that when I told her that I was calling the ambulance she stopped hyperventilating and all of a sudden she said she was okay.  She can control the behavior when I put up the consequences.  However, she would stop one behavior and then start another worse one (ie telling the kids Daddy doesn't want me home) when she doesn't get her way.  This is absolutely a destructive pattern and I will not tolerate it.  Especially since her abuse was directed at the kids last time to try to get to me. 

I can't just let her continue this behavior.  I have to protect my kids somehow.             

[Aaron1979]

I really hate this.  I hate divorce.   I'm really angry that I have to go to a lawyer to keep my kids safe.  I don't want this but I don't see another choice.  When I'm alone I find myself yelling and hitting my desk in frustration.  I know I can't change anything or make her change.  I want my kids to have a healthy Mom and my wife healthy all living in the home.  I want her follow my example in getting healthy but she insists on holding onto this control and wielding abuse to obtain it and not getting help on her own.

Sorry about the rant but I need to let this out any way I can.     

[pallavirajsinghani]

Aaron, can you get the kids counseling for themselves? 

[Teereese]

Hello Aaron, I am sorry that you and your children are going through this. You are making some very hard choices.

Let it out, that is what we are here for. It's safe to do so here.

I had to make a similar decision not too long ago, so understand on some level, as with all of the good people here.

It took me over 2 decades to realize that I could not help my stbxh get healthy and that I was just losing myself. He has to want it, do the hard work to get it and face all of the hurts and tragedy that was his own childhood...

You are quite strong to have made the changes you have. Stay strong for you and your children. Protect yourself and stay safe.

Your children will appreciate your decisions as they grow.

I allowed my children to suffer for far too long hoping things would change.

[Aaron1979]

Posted by: pallavirajsinghani 


Aaron, can you get the kids counseling for themselves?

Probably after she's gone.  She has a real issue with being left alone and she won't go to a friends house or church herself.  When I tried to go to church with the kids, when I tried to go to therapy by myself she only acted out.  Due to her history I have no reason to believe she will act any different if I said "Kids are going to therapy." 

The other thing is I don't want my kids to see any more of this crazy, abusive behavior or be used by their Mom again.  That's the hard thing.  I want my wife to get better but I also want my kids in a healthy environment and it seems I have to choose one or the other.  Since I have to choose between the two, my kids are the best choice and maybe my wife will hit rock bottom and really seek help.  Maybe some day she'll come back healthy. 

That doesn't mean I have to like this choice.  In fact I shouldn't be happy with this at all.  It's a sign of being healthy myself I think.

I was so messed up even back in May of this year.  I realized that I shouldn't take blame and abuse anymore.  When I got a job position that sometimes allowed me to work nights with nothing to do, I realized what was really going on after almost 6 years.  I started researching this behavior, journaling and thinking.  Fixing my CORE wounds that my parents inflicted upon me.  Started to make changes to myself and be more assertive, take care of myself first, set up boundaries, start to detach from my wife and not let her control me.  I did a lot of this before I ever found this site but I'm glad it's here.  It did help me clarify some things.   

Posted by: Teereese Hello Aaron, I am sorry that you and your children are going through this. You are making some very hard choices.

Let it out, that is what we are here for. It's safe to do so here.

I had to make a similar decision not too long ago, so understand on some level, as with all of the good people here.

It took me over 2 decades to realize that I could not help my stbxh get healthy and that I was just losing myself. He has to want it, do the hard work to get it and face all of the hurts and tragedy that was his own childhood...

You are quite strong to have made the changes you have. Stay strong for you and your children. Protect yourself and stay safe.

Your children will appreciate your decisions as they grow.

I allowed my children to suffer for far too long hoping things would change.

I think that every situation is different.  Maybe it took you 2 decades to realize but at least you did sometime.  Many people never realize and live their lives in misery.  You chose to respect yourself just as I have done.  Just like me you are a wonderful and very unique person.  What you think and say matters.  However, I remember that what other people say matters too.  It's important to achieve that balance. 

       

[pallavirajsinghani]

Aaron... .my instincts tells me that you will be all right and with you... .so will be the children.

There is a strength and emotional intelligence in you.

There is care and concern and deliberation of what is ethical behavior and an ethical choice.

For this I applaud you.

Bottomline:  Kids did not ask to be a witness to nor be at the receiving end of dysregulated behaviors.  Protect them.  She is an adult.  She will learn that her current coping skills are detrimental to the welfare of other... .she will then develop healthier coping skills... .that is, at least one can hope that she will.

Kids can't be allowed to sink to the bottom without being given a chance to swim in life... .

And here is one my favorite parables that illustrates the dilemma you are facing so clearly.  You may resist the solution that the protagonist reached at... .but is there any other solution?

Here is something to ponder about:  www.thecruxmovie.com/pdf/TheBridgeShortStory.pdf

[Mutt]

Hi Aaron1979,

One of the therapists that I was seeing said to set her off on purpose so she can get examined by a hospital and said going to a church that my wife didn't like (because the pastors know everything about her) would do that.  When I was going to an appointment with a therapist I let her know I'll be back in a couple hours but I need to keep this appointment.  In response She ran outside screaming when the kids were in the apartment and physically grabbed the car.

I'm sorry you're going through all of this. I'm not sure that I agree with this strategy. Is your T familiar with BPD? Is your wife the low / high functioning type? I'm guessing that the T may of been thinking that she's going to cause a scene for onlookers? You may want to rethink this strategy.

BPD is a disorder that is triggered by intimacy and the behavior is often directed at loved ones. Can she keep herself together around family and friends? Are the behaviors mostly displayed behind closed doors?

A person with BPD ( pwBPD) fear abandonment perceived or real and the person will go to great length to avoid abandonment and want reassurance.

It sounds like her abandonment fears are triggered, are you discussing or mentioning "divorce"?

Dr Joe Carver suggests to act boring, talk less... .Here is the first of three stages of leaving a pwBPD, the detachment... .

Separating from "The Borderline" often involves three stages: The Detachment, Ending the Relationship, and the Follow-up Protection.

Leaving A Partner with Borderline Personality

The Detachment

During this part of separating from "The Borderline", you recognize what you must do and create an Exit Plan. Many individuals fail in attempts to detach from "The Borderline" because they leave suddenly and impulsively, without proper planning, and without resources. In many cases, "The Borderline" has isolated their partner from others, has control of finances, or has control of major exit needs such as an automobile. During the detachment phase you should... .

- Observe the way you are treated. Watch for the methods listed above and see how "The Borderline" works.

- Gradually become more boring, talk less, share less feelings and opinions. The goal is almost to bore "The Borderline" to lessen the emotional attachment, at the same time not creating a situation which would make you a target.

- Quietly contact your family and supportive others. Determine what help they might be - a place to stay, protection, financial help, etc.

- If you fear violence or abuse, check local legal or law enforcement options such as a restraining order.

- If "The Borderline" is destructive, slowly move your valuables from the home if together, or try to recover valuables if in their possession. In many cases, you may lose some personal items during your detachment - a small price to pay to get rid of "The Borderline".

- Stop arguing, debating or discussing issues. Stop defending and explaining yourself - responding with comments such as "I've been so confused lately" or "I'm under so much stress I don't know why I do anything anymore".

- Begin dropping hints that you are depressed, burned out, or confused about life in general. Remember - "The Borderline" never takes responsibility for what happens in any relationship. "The Borderline" will feel better about leaving the relationship if they can blame it on you. Many individuals are forced to "play confused" and dull, allowing "The Borderline" to tell others "My girlfriend (or boyfriend) about half nuts!" They may tell others you're crazy or confused but you'll be safer. Allow them to think anything they want about you as long as you're in the process of detaching.

- Don't start another relationship. That will only complicate your situation and increase the anger. Your best bet is to "lay low" for several months. Remember, "The Borderline" will quickly locate another victim and become instantly attached as long as the focus on you is allowed to die down.

- As "The Borderline" starts to question changes in your behavior, admit confusion, depression, emotionally numbness, and a host of other boring reactions. This sets the foundation for the ending of the relationship.

Leaving A Partner with Borderline Personality

[Aaron1979]

Posted by: Mutt  

Insert Quote

Hi Aaron1979,

Welcome!

I'm sorry you're going through all of this. I'm not sure that I agree with this strategy. Is your T familiar with BPD? Is your wife the low / high functioning type? I'm guessing that the T may of been thinking that she's going to cause a scene for onlookers? You may want to rethink this strategy.

BPD is a disorder that is triggered by intimacy and the behavior is often directed at loved ones. Can she keep herself together around family and friends? Are the behaviors mostly displayed behind closed doors?

A person with BPD ( pwBPD) fear abandonment perceived or real and the person will go to great length to avoid abandonment and want reassurance.

It sounds like her abandonment fears are triggered, are you discussing or mentioning "divorce"?

Dr Joe Carver suggests to act boring, talk less... .Here is the first of three stages of leaving a pwBPD, the detachment... .

The therapist claims to be familiar with BPD but this appears really not to be the case.  The therapist had been tricked by my wife into blaming me.  She's the only therapist that can speak my wife's language.  I am not discussing things with that therapist anymore because I think she's giving bad advice.  I won't do anything to make my wife act crazy because I don't want the kids to see it again.  

I am not mentioning or discussing divorce with my wife.  When I went to church or the therapist she had the option to come with me.  When she went off it wasn't only due to abandonment.  It was whenever she didn't get what she wanted whether I folded the clothes wrong or did the dishes wrong, or misplaced an air pump.  She has forced me and my family to change churches when the one we are at is great for her and my family.  When I do exactly what my wife wants there are no problems.  I won't be able to do that forever and I have two little kids in the house that are 4 and 3 years old.  

I think she's high functioning type and she's had problems with my family and doesn't let me talk to friends a lot. I am talking to friends secretly and am laying low.  I do have a plan for leaving the relationship which involves taking the kids out while she goes shopping or something, placing them in a friends care, while the lawyer and I serve papers to her.  That's what I want to talk to the lawyer about.