Lack of a Role Model

[Depression = 72% of members]

Because of uBPD Mom who expected/demanded perfection from everyone, I lack a role model for the proper way to act in marriage.  In particular, on how to offer "constructive criticism" to the spouse.

My Mom rides my Dad about everything he does.  To the point that when she has a point, he is going to tune it out.  In my recent posts, you see that she recently had knee replacement.  An example is that he forgot to water one of her plants, and it didn't make it. She's been on him as if he'd committed a big sin.  She's on him when he rocks in his rocker, makes a sound, puts something in the wrong place, etc.  ANYTHING.

Now if I were to be on my DH about the things she's on him for, I'd be nothing bug a nag.  Well, I guess Mom is one.

Here's the dilema.  We went to a party Thursday night and he was acting like a big b***.  He was telling really stupid jokes.  Not inappropriate ones, but really stupid ones and wouldn't stop.  It wasn't one or two, it was continuous.  I could tell everyone was getting just as annoyed as I am.  They were being polite and laughing at them, even though they weren't funny to anyone over the age of 5.  He's been on a stupid joke roll the past few weeks and is making me nuts.  Now my Dad would not dare tell the second one the way my Mom would come down on him.  While I don't want to treat DH that way, I wasn't exactly nice about it.  It told him last night that he was being an a$$ to keep on and on like he was.  He countered with "everyone liked them".  He didn't pick up on the ques that they were trying to get away from him or change the subject to something more adult.

I realized later how the way that I put it was hurtful and did apologize to him. j I said he was still not acting right, but I was sorry that I put it in such a hurtful way.

My question is how do those of us raised in a family where one parent was BPD or UPBD and the other parent lived in fear of that parent, how do you learn how to treat other people?  I was treated the same way as my Dad, and I know what is hurtful. What I don't know is how to disagree in a healthy manner.  All disagreements when I was growing up were mean and hurtful.

Any ideas?

[todayistheday]

Because of uBPD Mom who expected/demanded perfection from everyone, I lack a role model for the proper way to act in marriage.  In particular, on how to offer "constructive criticism" to the spouse.

My Mom rides my Dad about everything he does.  To the point that when she has a point, he is going to tune it out.  In my recent posts, you see that she recently had knee replacement.  An example is that he forgot to water one of her plants, and it didn't make it. She's been on him as if he'd committed a big sin.  She's on him when he rocks in his rocker, makes a sound, puts something in the wrong place, etc.  ANYTHING.

Now if I were to be on my DH about the things she's on him for, I'd be nothing bug a nag.  Well, I guess Mom is one.

Here's the dilema.  We went to a party Thursday night and he was acting like a big b***.  He was telling really stupid jokes.  Not inappropriate ones, but really stupid ones and wouldn't stop.  It wasn't one or two, it was continuous.  I could tell everyone was getting just as annoyed as I am.  They were being polite and laughing at them, even though they weren't funny to anyone over the age of 5.  He's been on a stupid joke roll the past few weeks and is making me nuts.  Now my Dad would not dare tell the second one the way my Mom would come down on him.  While I don't want to treat DH that way, I wasn't exactly nice about it.  It told him last night that he was being an a$$ to keep on and on like he was.  He countered with "everyone liked them".  He didn't pick up on the ques that they were trying to get away from him or change the subject to something more adult.

I realized later how the way that I put it was hurtful and did apologize to him. j I said he was still not acting right, but I was sorry that I put it in such a hurtful way.

My question is how do those of us raised in a family where one parent was BPD or UPBD and the other parent lived in fear of that parent, how do you learn how to treat other people?  I was treated the same way as my Dad, and I know what is hurtful. What I don't know is how to disagree in a healthy manner.  All disagreements when I was growing up were mean and hurtful.

Any ideas?

[Turkish]

It's hard not having a frame of reference. We know what we know, and don't know what we don't know. The good thing is that you are aware of what you don't know, instead of stumbling blind and oblivious.

Short question: how accurate do you think the subtle cues which you picked up on in the social crowd were?

You grew up probably being constantly invalidated, and unsure of what to do or not to do, being anxious over the next rage from your mother. Do you think you might have felt anxiety in the social interaction as if it were more of a reflection on you rather than your husband and his goofiness?

Being annoyed at a spouse or partner is normal, but you're relating it back to the lack of growing up witnessing a healthy marriage. Even if your H isn't BPD, the validation tools may help (like lesson 3 on the staying board). They work on anybody, and I've found that they also result in me often self-reflecting.

[todayistheday]

It's hard not having a frame of reference. We know what we know, and don't know what we don't know. The good thing is that you are aware of what you don't know, instead of stumbling blind and oblivious.

Short question: how accurate do you think the subtle cues which you picked up on in the social crowd were?

You grew up probably being constantly invalidated, and unsure of what to do or not to do, being anxious over the next rage from your mother. Do you think you might have felt anxiety in the social interaction as if it were more of a reflection on you rather than your husband and his goofiness?

Being annoyed at a spouse or partner is normal, but you're relating it back to the lack of growing up witnessing a healthy marriage. Even if your H isn't BPD, the validation tools may help (like lesson 3 on the staying board). They work on anybody, and I've found that they also result in me often self-reflecting.

They were walking away from him and trying to change the subject.  That's pretty much a clue that they've had enough of it.

I know that being annoyed is normal!  I also know that they way that my Mom handles being annoyed is NOT.  And I know that the way that I handled the situation was entirely inappropriate.  When I was thinking about it later, I felt like I sounded like her and that made me really annoyed with myself.  Not only that, but I realize that what I said was totally inappropriate and very hurtful to him.  I've seen my Mom hurt my Dad all too much and I don't want to do that.   Most of the time, we are nothing like my parents.  For one thing, DH is not afraid to stand up to me.  Sometimes I wish he would be compliant like my Dad without being beaten down like my Dad.  I know that's unrealistic and I don't want to beat him down.

My real question is for people who grow up without witnessing APPROPRIATE relationship models, how do you overcome this and re-learn how to more properly behave?  TV ain't it.  I can't be any Olivia Walton either. (Maybe Grandma, but not Olivia.)   That's too sweet too.

[Panda39]

Hi todayistheday,

I would have smiled at the last bad joke and warmly laughed and said see look you've scared everyone off!  How about we get a drink... .talk to so & so across the room or some other distraction.

You could have just attempted to change the subject or steered the conversation in another direction.

After the party you just could have said hey honey I think you took the joking thing a little bit too far and describe what you saw in other people's reactions.

You can also just have the discussion you are having here... .with him.  Honey, because of the way I was raised I have a hard time giving you constructive criticism.  I want to express myself and don't want to hurt you in the process.  I'm working on new ways to do this, what do you think would be helpful?  How would you like me to approach this type of thing?

I think watching your tone when talking with your sweetie for something you want is helpful (you catch more bees with honey) going on the attack or putting him down isn't helpful and isn't likely to give you the result you want.  Do your best to recognize (be mindful) when your getting angry or frustrated so you don't lose control and say something you regret.  Regarding nagging just ask him once and trust he will do what he says he will, try to avoid the impulse to nag.

Good for you to recognize the issue, so often we just go along doing what we always do even if it doesn't work.

Take Care,

Panda39

[Turkish]

My real question is for people who grow up without witnessing APPROPRIATE relationship models, how do you overcome this and re-learn how to more properly behave?  TV ain't it.  I can't be any Olivia Walton either. (Maybe Grandma, but not Olivia.)   That's too sweet too.

My philosophy in general is to take what works, toss the rest. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater (unless it's Rosemary's Baby!). As my T said, I'm "inventing" being a father. I never had one. My BPD mom remained single my whole childhood. Im trusting my gut, and also asking questions of myself when appropriate.

You have awareness, which is good. Being validating yet truthful, kind of like what Panda suggested is a way of being safely sincere.

Have you thought about doing a communications class with your H? I took new with my Ex, and though she resented it at first, she admitted later that it was fun. We also got to interact with other couples in a safe environment.

[unicorn2014]

Hi today is the day, I am new to this board, so please forgive me in advance.

Have you ever heard of ACA? Its a program of recovery for adult children of dysfunctional families. It has a whole body of literature dealing with these very problems.

That is a very real problem you are dealing with. In ACA we learn to be our own loving parent. There is a laundry list of survival traits that are how we survived our dysfunctional childhoods. The best thing we can do is start building relationships with healthy people. This board might be a good example of that.

As I stated I am brand new to this board so I'm not familiar with your story. I assume you probably have worked with a therapist on these issues. Have you talked to a therapist about these issues?

For what its worth, I can totally relate. I've told my dad to stand up to my  mom. Recently my aunt told me my dad liked being told what to do. I don't think that's true at all. The way my dad copes is he lets it go.

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi todayistheday,

My real question is for people who grow up without witnessing APPROPRIATE relationship models, how do you overcome this and re-learn how to more properly behave? 

I feel that I am dealing with a similar issue.

I have been working on getting outside of my comfort zone in social situations.  In doing so, I am realizing that some of my discomfort is because I have little practice in some areas and feel that my replies/responses could be more skilled in some way.

So in answer to your question:

I practice!

I do what you are doing... .

1.  I come here and let the folks here guide me through some of my thought processes and options.   

2.  I have inner dialogue that helps me analyze what happened and how I could have responded differently.

3.  I have inner dialogue that observes others and how they respond and compare it to my own.  I ponder how they could have responded more effectively.

4. I practice responding by opening myself up to incrementally challenging social situations.

5. I talk things over with a friend who may be more wise in a certain area than I am.

6. I will email or PM a question to an unrelated friend for quick thoughts. (They never seem to mind the odd question here and there from me... .I space them out)

7. Most challenging... .I just practice and do it... .and mess up... .trial and error.