Another one of "those" texts...is there a better way other than ignore it

[formflier]

I finally go to the point of setting limits around verbal abuse.   It was difficult and painful for both of us.   It created a firestorm of emotion in both of us.   and it took a while to work through.  for me, and in my situation my relationship got to a breaking point, and I needed to take the chance/risk of pushing this issue.   I felt like if I didn't I was going to be like the clip above, with my self esteem eroded away.

My guess is... .that I am a bit more than halfway there.

I didn't respond to the texts.  I did my one little text to test the waters... .then ignored.

I'm interested in how you "pushed" the issue.  I definitely feel like "pushing" or "fighting back"... .but want it to be productive.

"Your texts are abusive... .I will be ignoring you the rest of the day" ... .I think would be seen as a challenge.

Yet it seems wrong to not address behavior that rises to this level.

Anyway... .please keep ideas coming.

It's interesting... .I now tell people routinely that boundaries will be their most effective tool and friend.  So... I'm good with that... .and I'm fine with her not liking the boundaries... .whatever. 

Goal is to set appropriate ones... .and be consistent.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

"Your texts are abusive... .I will be ignoring you the rest of the day" ... .I think would be seen as a challenge.

Correct, stating it that way is a challenge, and I'd add that it doesn't have the desired result you want either. And it also smacks of "punishment".

I think this would be better:

Stop sending me abusive text messages.

Although if she has never acknowledged that she is behaving abusively toward you before, it isn't likely to be received well either.

Backing up... .the reason to enforce a boundary like that is to protect yourself from experiencing the abusive crap. Not to punish her, and not to change her behavior.

Saying you will ignore the texts doesn't do that.

Turning off your phone works. (at least until you turn it back on) Blocking her number on your phone works.

There are clearly logistical issues with doing either, given that you are co-managing a household full of kids and especially while moving. I'd understand if you aren't willing/able to do that, at least now.

Does she speak that way to you in person, or speak of you (for example to your children) that way in front of you? The boundary of leaving an abusive face to face conversation is much cleaner and easier in that sense.

[unicorn2014]

Going to start a different post to discuss patterns in my r/s.


Maybe a last question to hang out there for comment.

On the one hand... .I hate ignoring someone... .and I hate being ignored. 

I would like to try and validate something via text the next time one of these text bombs happens. 

However... .I don't want to "feed the beast" and encourage more text bombing.

Any idea on how I can tell the difference?  There was a lot of info in this text bomb... .my plan is to try and pick something less controversial and stick to validating that

Any comments on sticking with text validation... .or calling her and trying to do it via voice? 

FF

Hi FF

I think we're struggling with the same issue.

Today I got in another circular argument on the phone with my pwBPD that he denied was a circular argument. Then when I was coming home from my run I saw he messaged  me about an old argument from Saturday. I had asked him if he had a private life outside our r/s and he got offended. Then he said he realized he was responding to Saturday's craziness when I called him on the phone. I have a policy now that I call my pwBPD as soon as I see a message come in and ask him what his last message  was.

I usually mute his conversations and I muted them on Facebook tonight. He says he texts me because I interrupt him on the phone.

I decided tonight that I've had enough of his circular arguments and if he wants to talk to me he can call me.

I appreciate seeing your struggle. I'm relieved to know I'm not the only one with this problem .

[formflier]

Does she speak that way to you in person, or speak of you (for example to your children) that way in front of you? The boundary of leaving an abusive face to face conversation is much cleaner and easier in that sense.

Yes she attempts to speak that way in person... .and with the move that kind of thing has been happening more.

I have walked away from her more in the last... .say... .month or so than I have in the 6 months combined before that.

So, my guess is that with her building frustration that I won't stand and "take it" and listen to her crap... .that she has started texting again. 

So, I'm seeing 3-4 "text bombs" in last month... .and maybe same amount in last 6 months.  Just an educated guess... .

She has acknowledged in the past that things like this are abusive, she won't do them... .it was bad... .etc etc.  However... .a bit of history re-writing and next thing you know... .

GK,

Hey... .I'll credit one of your phrases for helping me walk away the other day.  She made some mention of the texts being sent to me "out of love" and that I should be glad I had someone to say those things to me... .that I needed to hear (or some such nonsense... .)

Well... .a big part of me wanted to ask her to "help me understand" where the love was in those texts... .

A thought then went through my head... ."nothing good will come of this... . " 

And I went back upstairs to do something else.

FF

[formflier]

 

So... tried on a new phrase this morning.

Things were going great.  Then she couldn't find her boots.

I guess they were in a car on the trip.

She accused me of loosing them because they were hers... and if they were min... .I would have not have lost them... (nasty snarling tone as she spoke to me about this

So... .I said... "your abusive allegations of my malevolent intent are ridiculous and I will not be listening to them" and I walked away

She ranted about "no they are not... ." as I left the room... .yammered on about some other stuff I couldn't make out.

Hmm... .well.  I've said it...

We'll see.

FF

[formflier]

 

Do you think saying the same phrase over and over... .each time there is an incident is better... .or to have several phrases that are close in meaning... and make sure to switch them up so she doesn't get used to hearing the same thing.

Well... .I really didn't think through that last phrase... it just kinda came out.

I went back downstairs 10 minutes or so later and she was "sing songy" happy.  Literally skipping around.  She was getting ready for work.  I got a couple things out of the car that she would be driving to work.  When she got in she was very obvious about offering me her cheek to give her a peck.

She drives away... .calls a few minutes later and asks me to bring out her purse.

I brought it out with a smile... .said something about personalized purse delivery service and leaned in for some lovin... .

Again... .big exaggerated turn and offering of the cheek.

I'm sure there is a message in that... .that I won't figure out. 

FF

[Fian]

To add my 2 cents.  I think if you just responded, "We agreed in therapy to not have these types of conversations via text, so I will not be responding.  We can talk about this in person later if you want."  As for the abusive side of things, I would not tolerate it personally, but my marriage isn't doing the greatest, so I feel very poor equipped to give marriage advice.

[KateCat]

Do you think that maybe you become a victim of your core need to perform acts of services when in situations specifically like these "rough morning" ones?

I'm thinking that being the smiling custodian of her purse may lead directly to the accusation that you have not been tending properly to her boots.

Could you divide up morning responsibilities with your wife? You = get kids ready; Her = get herself ready.

I get that GreyKitty "no good can come of it" feeling when reading about tense morning interactions in your household. As if--no surprise--that is the time when your wife's fears and frustrations reach their daily zenith.

(Added, to concur with Fian and others: I hope you can protect yourself from this morning abuse. It sounds like too much, at least to me.)

[Grey Kitty]

Hey... .I'll credit one of your phrases for helping me walk away the other day.  She made some mention of the texts being sent to me "out of love" and that I should be glad I had someone to say those things to me... .that I needed to hear (or some such nonsense... .)

Well... .a big part of me wanted to ask her to "help me understand" where the love was in those texts... .

A thought then went through my head... ."nothing good will come of this... . " 

You are most welcome.

Along those lines... .when it comes to abuse and boundaries around them... .Let me suggest a general principle here:

Don't try to convince her that abusing you is the wrong thing to do. (what the comment unsaid was directed toward) This is invalidating and ineffective.

Instead convince her that you won't accept abusive behavior from her. Preferably through actions that prevent you from being abused.

Seriously... .your wife KNOWS that abusive behavior isn't kind, loving, or appropriate. It isn't her ignorance that drives her to do that. Thus giving her the knowledge won't help--it just adds something else for her to feel bad/guilty about, which she cannot cope with, and will eventually turn into the next blowup aimed at you instead.

... .

It really can make a world of difference, or at least make room for that kind of change. Once I was personally rock solid in refusing to accept abuse, things started to change for the better. First *I* started feeling and doing much better when I was out from under it. And after I took my wife's favorite unhealthy coping mechanism away from her (abusing me), she had to find others. And she did pick ones that were better. It took a couple years, but eventually she went through something herself and stopped TRYING to behave abusively toward me. It didn't come from me at all--she found it herself.

[formflier]

 

I had hoped that she had found better coping during our relative "good period" over the months leading up to this.

Right now I'm trying to organize my thoughts around communicating that I won't accept abuse... .I like the point about not arguing if she is being abusive.

I also like the return text that states the facts:  "We agreed in therapy to not have these types of discussions via text"... .

And then no more response.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

I also like the return text that states the facts:  "We agreed in therapy to not have these types of discussions via text"... .

Better to just state that you will not participate in that kind of discussion by text.

Pointing out that she agreed to it is just adding fuel to the fire. Either she doesn't remember/believe and thinks you are being manipulative/lying, and takes it out on you... .or she does remember, and feels bad/guilty, and being dysregulated still takes it out on you.

[formflier]

I also like the return text that states the facts:  "We agreed in therapy to not have these types of discussions via text"... .

Better to just state that you will not participate in that kind of discussion by text.

Pointing out that she agreed to it is just adding fuel to the fire. Either she doesn't remember/believe and thinks you are being manipulative/lying, and takes it out on you... .or she does remember, and feels bad/guilty, and being dysregulated still takes it out on you.

I see the point... .plus... our history with "agreements" is not that good.

So... the message that I want to hammer away at (so to speak) is that I will not be doing "that" anymore.

That being participating in abusive conversations.

FF

[KateCat]

Isn't there already one "hammer" in the family? 

Maybe you could float like a butterfly or be flexibly in the moment like a fluid basketball player? (For your situation, maybe spontaneous versions of the Grey Kitty statements that are along the lines of "I need to leave this conversation before I say something I regret."

[Grey Kitty]

... .plus... our history with "agreements" is not that good.

Dude, when did you get this thing about understatements? 

[formflier]

... .plus... our history with "agreements" is not that good.

Dude, when did you get this thing about understatements? 

hehe... .I don't really "get it"... but at least I am saying and acknowledging it.

I do kinda look around and wonder how things turn out "this good" with two people doing their own thing and really not coordinating much.

FF

[babyducks]

I finally go to the point of setting limits around verbal abuse.   It was difficult and painful for both of us.   It created a firestorm of emotion in both of us.   and it took a while to work through.  for me, and in my situation my relationship got to a breaking point, and I needed to take the chance/risk of pushing this issue.   I felt like if I didn't I was going to be like the clip above, with my self esteem eroded away.

My guess is... .that I am a bit more than halfway there.

I didn't respond to the texts.  I did my one little text to test the waters... .then ignored.

I'm interested in how you "pushed" the issue.  I definitely feel like "pushing" or "fighting back"... .but want it to be productive.

"Your texts are abusive... .I will be ignoring you the rest of the day" ... .I think would be seen as a challenge.

Yet it seems wrong to not address behavior that rises to this level.

Anyway... .please keep ideas coming.

It's interesting... .I now tell people routinely that boundaries will be their most effective tool and friend.  So... I'm good with that... .and I'm fine with her not liking the boundaries... .whatever. 

Goal is to set appropriate ones... .and be consistent.

FF

Hi FF,

It took me a long time to get there but I have a zero tolerance policy around abuse.  and DUH, why wouldn't I.   for me I needed to look at why it took  ME so long to get to the point of holding my boundaries.   Abuse is abuse is abuse.   I don't need to explain why I won't receive it.   I don't need to negotiate an end to the abuse.  I don't need to do anything except not be a recipient.   

I really enjoyed what Grey Kitty has said throughout this thread.   Very nicely put.   And summed up my experience also.

Along those lines... .when it comes to abuse and boundaries around them... .Let me suggest a general principle here:

Don't try to convince her that abusing you is the wrong thing to do. (what the comment unsaid was directed toward) This is invalidating and ineffective.

Instead convince her that you won't accept abusive behavior from her. Preferably through actions that prevent you from being abused.

   

Oh yeah exactly this.   Trying to convince my partner of anything is counter productive.   She just defends her position more.   My boundary is about me so it comes with a lot of I statements.   One of the better pieces of advice I got was to pay close attention to my use of "I" "You" and "We", that those three words are very telling about the health of a relationship.  My boundary comes with a lot of I statements.   If she rages she rages, since she is already raging... .this is kind of a mixed bag.   I know you are a big fan of actual examples so things I have said include.

"I will not have this conversation this way."

"I will not discuss this like this."

"I am turning off the phone, I will check back in at X."

and in response to the classic "it needed to be said" line

"what would work better for me is if we could communicate in a more productive way" and then exit stage left.

I don't view this as fighting back.   I view it more as defending my emotional space.   I should also make the point of saying I don't read abusive texts.  Delete Delete Delete.   and I will tell her so if asked.  Did you read my texts?  No, there was nothing helpful for me in those texts I deleted them unread.

Seriously... .your wife KNOWS that abusive behavior isn't kind, loving, or appropriate. It isn't her ignorance that drives her to do that. Thus giving her the knowledge won't help--it just adds something else for her to feel bad/guilty about, which she cannot cope with, and will eventually turn into the next blowup aimed at you instead.

... .

It really can make a world of difference, or at least make room for that kind of change. Once I was personally rock solid in refusing to accept abuse, things started to change for the better. First *I* started feeling and doing much better when I was out from under it. And after I took my wife's favorite unhealthy coping mechanism away from her (abusing me), she had to find others. And she did pick ones that were better. It took a couple years, but eventually she went through something herself and stopped TRYING to behave abusively toward me. It didn't come from me at all--she found it herself.

This has also been my experience.   It was up to me to be personally rock solid in refusing to accept abuse, and not wait for her to agree to it.    If she did become abusive it was up to me to protect my emotional self by becoming un-enmeshed.  Sometimes that meant leaving physically, sometimes that meant doing other things to protect myself emotionally.

'ducks

[JohnLove]

When conversations or things turn as bad as everyone has posted and I am fumbling with the tools or which tool to use... .I validate MYSELF by calling her out.

Sometimes I feel calling her out on her abuse quite literally as a reality check (I know, mine, but shared) and then a period of separation almost always gets things back on track... .but mine is very committed to the relationship. And sometimes I like to live dangerously. 

I was wondering with FF's posts with the wife tearing the relationship to shreds where is the line between respecting her wishes (her point of view, her requests, her desire toward dissolution of the relationship) or simply ignoring her (invalidating?) or indeed telling her that she is abusive?... .which may be perceived as invalidating anyway.

The twisting or the rewriting of history is very difficult for me to cope with as well... .even when my dBPDgf rewrites her OWN recent history... .HER truth... .it just pulls the rug out.

[formflier]

 

I try to offer her a chance to share her wishes.  If she does so in a respectful... .healthy way... .I go out of my way to attempt to meet the request.

When she is grumpy... .I try to think about what I would do in this situation if she were not involved.

So... .what I don't want to do is say "wife is yelling at me... .so I will sit on couch and do no housework"

I do housework because I live in the house... .and want to set a good example for my kids.  I don't start or stop that because of dysregulation or accusations. 

However... .if she asks nicely... .it almost always gets done.

FF

[Flexion]

The twisting or the rewriting of history is very difficult for me to cope with as well... .even when my dBPDgf rewrites her OWN recent history... .HER truth... .it just pulls the rug out.

Mine definitely rewrites her OWN history and tells me how twisted I am. .