Would you help open a good friends eyes?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I've been posting a few times recently and been reading sine I got steam rolled by my uBPD- exw last November. My recovery is going well- went n/c moved state and healed ( still am) loving life again phew. So my best friend since I was a child were both 32 is seeing a lady for about 2 years now. I have met them a few times - spent weekends together in that period but geographically we are far apart - hence the few weekends together only. Here minds me of the old me- passive people pleasing codependent too trusting etc. she has been triggering my BPD red flag- ometer.

Lots of things - she flirts excessively with males- to the point of embarassement with me- lets just say boundary issues - groping / biting and sexual inuendos galore ( I stopped most of this in its tracks)

Saying things like how glad she is to have met me - when drunk.

Yo yo dieting - her weight is up and down- she talks a lot about it which makes me think she has poor body image/ self esteem

She confessed she met a workmate for drinks and his wife contacted my mate to say his girlfriend was cheating on him? She told the story in a ' how silly' way but i cringed

I don't know lots more small things that make me feel unconfortable that she is wholesome. I see me- I see my ex treating me like poop and me putting up with it. I see this in my buddy and I'm concerned. She did a lot of marriage talk the last night we all went out. Should I say something? Or let it go?

People warned me about my ex and it made me mad and defensive- but can I let my mate suffer? An I imagining this stuff? Does this stuff happen normal couples anyway? Opinions needed

[murphy7083]

I've been posting a few times recently and been reading sine I got steam rolled by my uBPD- exw last November. My recovery is going well- went n/c moved state and healed ( still am) loving life again phew. So my best friend since I was a child were both 32 is seeing a lady for about 2 years now. I have met them a few times - spent weekends together in that period but geographically we are far apart - hence the few weekends together only. Here minds me of the old me- passive people pleasing codependent too trusting etc. she has been triggering my BPD red flag- ometer.

Lots of things - she flirts excessively with males- to the point of embarassement with me- lets just say boundary issues - groping / biting and sexual inuendos galore ( I stopped most of this in its tracks)

Saying things like how glad she is to have met me - when drunk.

Yo yo dieting - her weight is up and down- she talks a lot about it which makes me think she has poor body image/ self esteem

She confessed she met a workmate for drinks and his wife contacted my mate to say his girlfriend was cheating on him? She told the story in a ' how silly' way but i cringed

I don't know lots more small things that make me feel unconfortable that she is wholesome. I see me- I see my ex treating me like poop and me putting up with it. I see this in my buddy and I'm concerned. She did a lot of marriage talk the last night we all went out. Should I say something? Or let it go?

People warned me about my ex and it made me mad and defensive- but can I let my mate suffer? An I imagining this stuff? Does this stuff happen normal couples anyway? Opinions needed

[enlighten me]

Hi Murphy

Would your friend listen? I know if I was told it I would not have. I think even though I knew something was off I would have buried my head deeper into the sand and shame would have made me deny it more.

Its hard to watch someone go through it. I would keep in contact with your friend and talk more but avoid bringing it up. If he does then you could voice your concerns. Does he know the story of you and your ex? If so you could say how much she reminds you of her and that you don't want to see him suffer like you did.

If it doesn't come up I would say be there for him especially if it all comes to an end and he will need someone that truly understands what he is going through.

[C.Stein]

If he doesn't see it on his own he probably won't even if you said something about her.  He's got the fully blacked out love goggles on.

Perhaps the best way to approach it would be to lead him to discover what BPD is on his own without actually stating your suspicions.  Maybe talk to him about your ex and how she suffered from BPD.  Bring up similar behaviour that you see without actually making the comparison to his gf.   Then he might do some research and make the connection on his own.  

[Michelle27]

I wouldn't have listened early on.  Sadly, I believed his stories of being an abused husband and didn't make connections with all of his short term relationships (his previous marriage only lasted a few years).  I think all you can do is be there and keep those boundaries up and strong when it comes to the gf. 

[Gonzalo]

I would get him to read Stop Walking on Eggshells or a similar book, but not expect him to believe it until he's gotten burned by her. A friend saying that she reminds him of his old ex- just isn't a reliable source, people have all kinds of emotional breakups and weird hangups that aren't valid warnings.

[English Sid]

Hi Murphy

I went back to my home country for a vacation this year and was talking with my sisters regarding my break up with my uBPDxw and was discussing my thoughts to them on how I thought she had this illness.

My sisters visited me 4 years ago for a holiday whilst I was still with my ex, one of my sisters said to me that she thought something was not right with my ex to which I replied why did you not say anything to me, to which she replied would you have listened, point taken, I would not have at that time.

[murphy7083]

Thanks so much guys- it's a pretty unpleasant position to be in. He knows every detail of what I went through- I will gently remind him of some of the traits as you suggested. I had one woman come to me and really rip me ex wife to shreds years ago- all of it turned out accurate but I really lost respect for that woman- now I see she was trying to help. At least she didn't come and say 'I told you so ' afterwards - shes my sisters friend.

[once removed]

hey murphy7083  

i would recommend you not take this approach. frankly it is unsolicited advice, which is not usually well received if received at all.

i have unhealthy friends who have been in, pursued, and remained in unhealthy relationships. they are adults and entitled to their decision. they likely know more than we do, and one thing ive learned is that relationships behind closed doors are often very different from what we see.

personally i think your friend is likely to resent unsolicited advice. if he solicits advice, give it very artfully. otherwise, this is his relationship, and he is an adult.

search your motives, too. we often see things like BPD and codependency in other peoples relationships. we often want to give people the warning that we never got (and might have ignored or resented). there is a rescuer quality to this kind of dynamic that often clashes with healthy boundaries.

[murphy7083]

Valid points - I appreciate that thank you.

Definately this comes from a part of me that wants to protect him from a blitz.

I have thought about this a lot this last few days and I just can't see how my advice would be welcome - I run the risk of looking like the jealous singleton trying to meddle.

I will definately be there for him- I guess I'm extra specially looking out for him as he had a suicide attempt about ten years ago and I helped him through it- now his life is great I don't want her to ___ all over it.

Can I ask your opinions on the actual behaviours I described above? Do some sane females do this stuff anyway? Just have boundary issues? I don't really see any narcicism in her, seems good with money and I don't know her mental health history. She seems to have had lots of short jobs and no long term relationships ( all less than a year)

She got involved in my mess- came with my friend to stay for a week and was perfectly horrified at my ex's behaviour. I guess I'm trying to normalise some of her behaviour to not be BPD.

[Sadly]

My head was in the clouds, my feet were off the ground and I wouldn't have taken a blind bit of notice. Sadly one day you can be there to help pick up the pieces as a true friend and one day he will be lucky to have a friend who cares so much. x

[murphy7083]

I think it will be more useful for me to have the mindset of  helping him if it hits. I can't believe how much this website has helped me and I will help him. I just hope it doesn't end up in the kinda borderline relationship where he is miserable long term blinded to the truth. I am on the dating board now and I have had a few run ins with the disordered. Now I am so happy with myself - the love I've never had for myself - I am hyper vigilant but on some level starting to believe some  people deserve a chance and although I want to fall in love again I have a heart enclosed in reinforced concrete. I guess my hyper vigilance had turned to my good friend

[Sadly]

I think so too. To be fair and quite innocently I met a friend who I hadn't seen for ages for dinner and was talking to her about my exBPD and everything that had happened and she got a shock. She said, my god it sounds like my Ian (ex) recently split. She seemed quite excited to have light bulbs going off but bear in mind this was after they had split. Not sure she would have seen it the same way during the relationship but it is very over now. I am glad you are sorted, I know what you mean about heart in concrete though. Good luck. x

[once removed]

Valid points - I appreciate that thank you.

Definately this comes from a part of me that wants to protect him from a blitz.

I have thought about this a lot this last few days and I just can't see how my advice would be welcome - I run the risk of looking like the jealous singleton trying to meddle.

I will definately be there for him- I guess I'm extra specially looking out for him as he had a suicide attempt about ten years ago and I helped him through it- now his life is great I don't want her to all over it.

Can I ask your opinions on the actual behaviours I described above? Do some sane females do this stuff anyway? Just have boundary issues? I don't really see any narcicism in her, seems good with money and I don't know her mental health history. She seems to have had lots of short jobs and no long term relationships ( all less than a year)

She got involved in my mess- came with my friend to stay for a week and was perfectly horrified at my ex's behaviour. I guess I'm trying to normalise some of her behaviour to not be BPD.

there are plenty of risks. he tells her or lets it slip what you mentioned and one or both of them nix you from the picture. she reverses the story on you. he simply resents you. not only might he reject your help and advice, but hearing it could actually trigger his own sense of abandonment, and he could dig even deeper into the relationship as a result.

likely hes seen some red flags. its possible hes more wary than you realize, its possible hes oblivious.

to answer your question, yes there are boundary issues. you say she groped, bit, and used sexual innuendo toward you that you stopped in its tracks. do i have that right? if this continues you may have no choice but to either tell him, or avoid him if she is around. probably avoid him if she is around, and then if he asks you about it, tell him why. basically, let him come to you on these matters, and then be very very careful what you say or what advice you dispense. i think youre right to avoid trying to diagnose her. we arent professionals and plenty of us see "BPD" and "red flags" all over the place, we can be hypervigilant about them.

best to look at and focus on behaviors. the things i see are the excessive flirting (biting, groping, sexual innuendo, thats a situation you want to remove yourself from entirely) and the mention of someone elses wife accusing her of cheating. poor boundaries, yes. sometimes people are excessive flirts, and/or share too much inappropriately.

[murphy7083]

Yes the groping happened twice

On the train sitting right beside my mate she stuck her foot into my crotch- I quickly got it out of there.

Biting happened twice aswell- my bicep

A lot of the inuendos about me and my sex life and lots of questions what kind of women I like, how I like it... ... .You get the picture

Every single bit of this happened right I front of my mate- no attempts to hide it- hence I got the feeling of my mate being treated badly like I got when my ex flirted with other males excessively in my company.

I'm not upset by these behaviours - in fact it's a small bit flattering - I'm just worried that as they get to the 2 year mark this is happening - what will be gappening at the 8 year mark like my relationship. When they came to visit me last January after my mess occurred- I normalised some of her flirty behaviour as her being a friend trying to give me little ego strokes as I was on my knees and thought I'd never love again etc

The other thing I have noticed is that I cannot have a single word with my mate without her being in the background listening etc even my FB messages become a group chat between us three- so I definately take your point in board about her finding out and cutting me off.

I like to make a final decision and stick to it. I'm going to be there for him, if he talks or asks questions I will answer using myself / my experience only. Fingers crossed its not as bad as I have picked up on.

[Sadly]

Good idea mate, wish I had a friend like you. x

[ms.wisdom]

I have to disagree.  BPD or not, I think a friend needs to be informed about these clearly inappropriate behaviors on her part (hitting on you).  He can decide what to do with the information.  You care about him and you should let him know, in case he doesn't.  I think it would be worse for him to find out about the behavior later... .and wonder why you never alerted him.   

I wish my friends or my exBPD's friends would have said something to me.  My friends and contacts saw no red flags and were very happy for me.  My BPD's friends and family (all back in his home country) all told him not to be involved with me.  I found that to be insulting because I thought they were judging me (they didn't even KNOW me... .I said to myself).  In hindsight, I guess they were commenting on his inability to be in a stable relationship.  Of course, this was all filtered to me through my BPD.  If his friends or family had taken the time to contact me and given me a heads up and explained to me why and what the situation was, I would have been very appreciative and it would have definitely had an impact.  I was trying very hard to figure my BPD out and I would have appreciated the clues from back home... .     

[Grey Kitty]

The other thing I have noticed is that I cannot have a single word with my mate without her being in the background listening etc even my FB messages become a group chat between us three- so I definately take your point in board about her finding out and cutting me off.

Of all the things you've mentioned, this is the one that looks like the biggest  of the bunch. That is classic abusive behavior -- isolating the victim from other sources of support.

Some women are flirty; perhaps it doesn't even bug your mate that she flirts a bit, as he trusts her to not do anything of it.

Q1: Did she flirt/grope you when he was around? You've got a lot less reason to say something if he was there and saw it!

Q2: I think you said he was there for you and heard all about your r/s and breakup. If so, did you mention BPD or mental illness to him then?

... .

I'd tread lightly as far as what you tell him, in any case. If you do have a chance to talk to him when she's not around, I'd suggest a couple things.

First, be clear that you are his friend and want to support him. And that what he does in his relationship is his choice, and you will support him whatever happens there.

Second, consider sending him to the Staying forum. If he reads the material here, he will know whether it fits his situation or not, and if it does, he'll find the tools and support he needs to cope better. [I know this is the leaving board, so you don't hear of many successes here, but there are many who have improved things, and some truly astounding successes.]

Third... .and maybe you should just start here and not get to the others... .sincerely ask him how things are going with the gf. Make it easy for him to open up to you if things are bad... .or good... .or whatever.

Remember, it REALLY isn't your place to tell him what he should DO about the relationship. You can tell him things that he should know. For example, telling him about the groping incidents, or telling him that she reminds you of your crazy ex in some things you've seen. But once you tell him these things, the choice of what he does next is his. Maybe he wants to end it. Maybe he wants to learn how to make a relationship with a pwBPD work better. Maybe he's not ready to decide.

Just be there for him however you can.