The BPD Mindset from a BPD perspective...

[Freeatlast_1]

I've always wondered how my ex rationalized her actions. Or maybe she didn't, maybe she cannot rationalize. Many times during her rage, she would say things that are unbelievable, so hurtful, and resentful. I've always wondered if:

1. Do people do BPD ever feel how hurtful they can be?

2. How can someone treat someone they claim to love you very much so badly.

3. What can your partner do for you to trust them and love them the way they love you?

I understand that people with BPD have chronic sadness, shame, guilt, but what surprises me is that my ex was  very smart. I would have to wonder how she rationalized her actions. She would always say her actions are reactions to my actions. She says that when she gets angry, it's because I trigger her to get angry. I guess that's a common thing with BPD's. I would just love to get into the mind of BPD to understand their mindset.

I admit I still love my ex very much, and I truly wish did there's a way I can keep the good part of her and discard the mentally ill part of her. I know that's very unrealistic, but I'm having a very hard time letting go of the person I fell a love with. I hate the fact that she's very dear to me, despite how abusive she was.

[EaglesJuju]

It is very common for a pwBPD to react to something on impulse. Especially if they are dysregulating and coping with intense negative emotions.  That is where the maladaptive behavior factors in. Engaging in these behaviors self-regulate a pwBPD's emotions. When someone is acting on impulse, that person does not think of future behavior. It is focus on that moment in time. After engaging in coping mechanisms, many people with BPD feel remorseful and horrible about the things they have done.

PwBPD tend to have poor self-esteem, low self-worth, and a great deal of self-loathing. Many view perceive themselves as horrible, broken, evil, unworthy, and unlovable. When a pwBPD realizes they have done something to hurt you, it perpetuates a cycle of depression, shame, and self-destructive behavior. A pwBPD will hate themselves more than you ever could. 

These patterns of behavior are reinforced throughout a lifetime. The behavior has nothing to do with being smart or not loving you, it is a means of survival for someone who has vulnerability to emotions, cannot cope with the intensity of emotions, or cannot regulate their emotions.

Regardless of why a pwBPD behaves a certain way, the behavior can be extremely hurtful. As compared to physical illness, mental illness is harder to understand.   

From my experience, my pwBPD has told me that he has pushed me away because he did not believe that he deserved me. It was not because he did not love me, but he was afraid of losing me and loved me so much. He believed that he would drag me down and I deserved someone better. Also, he felt shame and guilt from the way that he treated me. It was easier for him to avoid me than facing anything associated with me.  From a rational viewpoint, that does not make much sense. Although from a BPD perspective, it is logical. 

[Freeatlast_1]

Thanks Eagles, that makes a lot of sense. I think your partner (or ex?) is right... .

My ex never apologized so I wouldn't know how bad she felt when she hurt me. I know that she would break up with me every time we had a major argument, and wants No contact. That's her way of avoiding me. But I doubt she felt I deserve better. I sometimes even thing she has NPD features.

[C.Stein]

I admit I still love my ex very much, and I truly wish did there's a way I can keep the good part of her and discard the mentally ill part of her. I know that's very unrealistic, but I'm having a very hard time letting go of the person I fell a love with. I hate the fact that she's very dear to me, despite how abusive she was.

I couldn't agree more.  My ex is (could be) one of the most wonderful people I have met.  When she is that person I was very much in love with her, happy and content, but the flip BPD side of the coin kept pushing me away.  It really is sad, because I would have walked through hell for her ... .or maybe more aptly put, I would have continued to walk through hell for her.

I remember asking her why she was two different people, the one she presented to everyone else and the one she was with me.

She would give this confused look and mumble I don't know or something similar.

I believe some of her behaviour truly baffles her, while some she knew exactly what she was doing.  I don't believe she really knew or understood how damaging her behaviour was.  As long as I jumped through the hoop she had manipulated me into jumping through, the personal consequences to me went largely unnoticed.

She seemed unable to foresee the consequences of her actions on most occasions, and instead was just acting on emotion with little or no logic involved.  This type of behaviour naturally raised all kinds of concerns and doubts in me.  There were cases though where I thought I was able to get her to clearly see the consequences of her actions afterwards, but I honestly don't know if she understood just how damaging they were.  I feel nearly every hurtful thing she did was justified in her mind.

[C.Stein]

From my experience, my pwBPD has told me that he has pushed me away because he did not believe that he deserved me. It was not because he did not love me, but he was afraid of losing me and loved me so much. He believed that he would drag me down and I deserved someone better. Also, he felt shame and guilt from the way that he treated me. It was easier for him to avoid me than facing anything associated with me.  From a rational viewpoint, that does not make much sense. Although from a BPD perspective, it is logical. 

I wish the same was true for my ex. 

[EaglesJuju]

My ex never apologized so I wouldn't know how bad she felt when she hurt me. I know that she would break up with me every time we had a major argument, and wants No contact. That's her way of avoiding me. But I doubt she felt I deserve better. I sometimes even thing she has NPD features.

Many times my pwBPD did not apologize either. After he projected and blamed me for things, he would tend to avoid me. He internalized things and suppressed feelings quite often.  It was common for him to act like nothing happened and I was back on my  pedestal.

Shame is a really powerful factor for a pwBPD. It is drives a lot of the avoidance behavior. Essentially avoidance is an extension of having impaired object permanence  (out of sight out of mind) and  a lack of object constancy (the ability to view a person as having both faults and virtues) Having these impairments and shame, it is plausible that a pwBPD would avoid someone to not face their shame or negative feelings associated with the event etc. 

[C.Stein]

It was common for him to act like nothing happened and I was back on my  pedestal.

Yes ... .Yes ... .Yes.  Avoidance of the hurtful action, projection and acting like nothing happened was the way my ex acted every time she did something hurtful.

[Mutt]

But I doubt she felt I deserve better. I sometimes even thing she has NPD features.

Hi Freeatlast_1,

Do you mean that your ex has difficulties putting herself in your shoes and seeing things from your perspective?

Is the trait lack of empathy, when you're thinking about NPD features?

[EaglesJuju]

Yes ... .Yes ... .Yes.  Avoidance of the hurtful action, projection and acting like nothing happened was the way my ex acted every time she did something hurtful.

You would never know on the outside, but pwBPD tend to feel horrible about the things they done internally. From what my pwBPD has told me, it is hell living with that much shame, guilt, and self-loathing. That is why a lot of times a pwBPD will engage in impulsive behavior like self-harm, substances, sex, gambling, binge eating, etc., to regulate their emotions or make themselves feel better. Ironically the aftermath of impulsive behavior adds to shame, guilt, and self-loathing. It is a cycle of self-sabotage.

From a non-BPD perspective it can seem like they are cold or indifferent, but that is typically not the case.

[sadandbroken]

So when a male BPD starts experiencing the guilt and shame they avoid and discard? I found out the person I had dated for a year had BPD after he claims to have been stressed out and in his own home as he called it drank to much,threw a tempertantrum and destroyed things.He told me that he was afraid that I would not like this side of him and that I deserved so much better.I feel like he was experiencing shame and low self worth at that time.Is it possible for them to feel this way at the same time that they have identified a new victim ,or do they just set those self worth issues aside ans get stuck in the fantasy? Just curios because as he is expressing to me that it takes him time to get through these episodes and that he is depressed,he is trying to seduce another female although Im not sure he knows I have figured that out.When I have had to see him, he immediately becomes nerviose,looks over at me frequently and then has to leave the room.I cant tell if its because he is processing what he did to me or if he has a unsubstantiated  hate for me.

[EaglesJuju]

So when a male BPD starts experiencing the guilt and shame they avoid and discard? I found out the person I had dated for a year had BPD after he claims to have been stressed out and in his own home as he called it drank to much,threw a tempertantrum and destroyed things.He told me that he was afraid that I would not like this side of him and that I deserved so much better.I feel like he was experiencing shame and low self worth at that time.

Stress does exacerbate emotional dysregulation. For someone who has a problem controlling or regulating intense emotions, external stimuli and stress aid with dysregulation. Furthermore substances such as alcohol, lead to inhibition and advanced lack of control over emotions. 

Many people with BPD have so much shame and self-loathing, it affects self-esteem and self-worth. Many pwBPD tend to live behind a false self or façade that things are great on the outside, when they feel completely broken on the inside.

Avoidance is easy for someone who cannot cope with emotions that are related to external stimuli. Unfortunately, at times someone or something can be a constant reminder of a pwBPD's shame. If that is the case, it is easier to avoid than face the negative feelings associated with that person or thing.

It is likely that he experiences shame and low self worth if he said that. 

Is it possible for them to feel this way at the same time that they have identified a new victim ,or do they just set those self worth issues aside ans get stuck in the fantasy? Just curios because as he is expressing to me that it takes him time to get through these episodes and that he is depressed,he is trying to seduce another female although Im not sure he knows I have figured that out.When I have had to see him, he immediately becomes nerviose,looks over at me frequently and then has to leave the room.I cant tell if its because he is processing what he did to me or if he has a unsubstantiated  hate for me.

I would not consider BPD behavior as stalking and predatory. People who are impulsive do not have aforethought and plan. Certainly impulsive people and are not on the prowl seeking new "victims." The behavior is typically reactive and done on a whim as many pwBPD tend to live in the moment and not focus on future behavior. 

Many times a pwBPD will look for someone to fill a void or soothe their abandonment fears. PwBPD typically do not like being alone as many of them garner a sense of self from another. A person who has an unstable sense of self attaches to another person to gain a sense of self. Essentially without another person they do not know who they really are. 

Shame has a lot to do with feeling nervous or uncomfortableness around another person. I think the self-loathing and shame does not go away. It is constantly there for a pwBPD and that is a large reason why pwBPD engage in maladaptive behavior, to divert their internal feelings. Shame is coupled with depression.  Once someone starts feeling shameful or remorseful, there is a tendency to feel depressed. It adds to their already negative self-perceptions.

My perspective on hate is, if someone still is talking to you, it most likely means that they do not hate you. 

[sadandbroken]

Thank you for your response.It makes total sense.I wish I had a better understanding.Its like what most say on her about unresolved feelings.He told me he never felt like he deserved me.I just don't get it.I understand self esteem issues, but to find out after being broke up for a week there is already a replacement and he just shares with me the distress he was going through its baffling.I asked it if it was me that stressed him out and he told me I was the one thing in his life that calmed him and listed all the other things that were stressful.This man admitted to me after I asked him if he had BPD  that he had been in therapy for most of his life and he quit a year and a half ago thinking he was better when he met me. He hid this for a year.It went from wonderful to in one day done.He had said he would not be able to handle it if he hurt me so in a way I think he distanced himself to avoid this which I appreciate. I just dont understand how after a week he has grabbed on to another single mom like I never existed. I know that this is part of the disorder as Im reading.He just seems to hate me and yet he told me that he let me in closer than anyone else and that I brought him peace.Anyways thank you for making some sense of things for me.Its very helpful.

[EaglesJuju]

I wish I had a better understanding.Its like what most say on her about unresolved feelings.He told me he never felt like he deserved me.I just don't get it.I understand self esteem issues, but to find out after being broke up for a week there is already a replacement and he just shares with me the distress he was going through its baffling.

The behavior is baffling and contradictory at times. It really is hard to understand if you never experienced self-loathing. It is like a pwBPD becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy through their behavior. PwBPD tend to feel like they deserve misery and unhappiness and then engage in self destructive behavior. It is really a never ending cycle of shame and self loathing.

I asked it if it was me that stressed him out and he told me I was the one thing in his life that calmed him and listed all the other things that were stressful.This man admitted to me after I asked him if he had BPD  that he had been in therapy for most of his life and he quit a year and a half ago thinking he was better when he met me.

It is common for a pwBPD to think that someone else will fix all their problems and save them. As much as you are a positive factor in their life, there is still that fear of abandonment/rejection that is in the back of the mind of a BPD sufferer. Abandonment fears can be so overwhelming that it can eclipse rationality in a sense. At that point, someone who has abandonment fears will everything and anything to prevent them. The behavior can be absolutely contradictory to what would be typically expected.

He hid this for a year.It went from wonderful to in one day done.He had said he would not be able to handle it if he hurt me so in a way I think he distanced himself to avoid this which I appreciate. I just dont understand how after a week he has grabbed on to another single mom like I never existed. I know that this is part of the disorder as Im reading.He just seems to hate me and yet he told me that he let me in closer than anyone else and that I brought him peace.

The stigma behind the disorder would make someone feel embarrassed or ashamed for suffering from BPD. I think that is a huge reason why many pwBPD do not disclose a diagnosis.  It is hard to understand something that is so contradictory. Remember you are looking at the behavior from the perspective of a non-disordered person. In a pwBPD's mindset, it is the most loving thing that they can do for you, letting  you go so they do not further hurt you. 

I think many times pwBPD will reach out to someone new because it is a clean slate. They do not have to be reminded of the things that they have done in the past with someone new.  Regardless of them thinking "out of sight and out of mind," pwBPD do think about their exes.  My pwBPD has told me when we were not communicating for a long period of time, he thought about me every single day. It would not appear that way, since he told me to move on and was not speaking to me.

[shatra]

Eagles wrote---

I think many times pwBPD will reach out to someone new because it is a clean slate. They do not have to be reminded of the things that they have done in the past with someone new.

-----True, but they often return to a prior person because that "satisfies" the rapprochement issues they struggle with----going away from mother and then turning and crawling back to mother feels different than going to a stranger. and also it is part of the push-pull behavior if they return to an ex. 

Regardless of them thinking "out of sight and out of mind," pwBPD do think about their exes.  My pwBPD has told me when we were not communicating for a long period of time, he thought about me every single day. It would not appear that way, since he told me to move on and was not speaking to me.

----True.  Why did he tell you to move on? Was this a serious request or was he splitting or something else?

[EaglesJuju]

-----True, but they often return to a prior person because that "satisfies" the rapprochement issues they struggle with----going away from mother and then turning and crawling back to mother feels different than going to a stranger. and also it is part of the push-pull behavior if they return to an ex. 

I think it depends on individual characteristics. Some pwBPD have stronger abandonment issues, others engulfment fears outweigh the abandonment fears. The intensity of either abandonment or engulfment depends on impairments through the developmental process.

Regardless of them thinking "out of sight and out of mind," pwBPD do think about their exes.  My pwBPD has told me when we were not communicating for a long period of time, he thought about me every single day. It would not appear that way, since he told me to move on and was not speaking to me.

----True.  Why did he tell you to move on? Was this a serious request or was he splitting or something else?

I took it as a serious request, although the conversation leading up to it was indicating otherwise. He told me to move on because he said I was too good for him and he has so much shame and guilt from the things that he has done to me. I respected his wishes and did not contact him.

[C.Stein]

I respected his wishes and did not contact him.

I also respected my ex's wishes when she told me she couldn't talk to me anymore. 

I think that led to me being painted blacker than black.

[Freeatlast_1]

Sometimes, like today, it really hurts to realize that it is over. It has been a little over a month since we had a conversation and at that time she needed money and I transferred, bec I can't leave her stranded. I care about her a lot... .she said she will contact me to pay back next wk, who knows, I won't contact her. I am HURT still, I can't stand it. Weather she misses me or not, she's not with me so it doesn't matter. It hurts to picture her having sex with others, it can be my ego, or me being possessive, etc... .or whatever. How do you guys deal with this crappy feeling of jealousy, loss, on/off grief, annoyance, anger, confusion, the hope that she returns/calls but then wishing everything to end while she's raging, and hoping she disappears forever... .then later missing her, then hating her, then hating yourself for giving into her, wishing you haven't met her... .then missing her again when it ends and wishing she goes to therapy to treat that horrific illness. Then again, thinking therapy will resolve her issues is irrational, so I'd still have to make MAJOR sacrifices if I go back to her. I'm going nuts... .It's easy to say MOVE ON, get busy, work out, focus on you etc. I am doing all that and more, but I can't get over missing her. Sometimes I think it's unfortunate that I met her in the first place, but then I've never been 'in love' that much before... .so it kind of released a lot of my withheld emotions which was nice, I learned a lot about me through the relationship. If anyone has a trick to make this easier... .(without substance abuse), please advise!

[C.Stein]

Freeatlast_1,

I wish I knew the answers because I am having the same struggles as you.  Ten minutes ago I almost sent her a text.  Can't even tell you how many times I have almost text her, but I hold back.  Partly because I respect her decision and partly because I am unsure if I really want to get back into that mess.  The last 6 months of our relationship was especially difficult, and I think we both gave up on each other before she finally discarded me.  Thing is, at the time I was almost grateful she did because I was emotionally dead and just tired of waiting for her to show me she actually cared.  

I think the hardest thing for me is I am carrying around an enormous amount of remorse and guilt, feeling like I didn't do enough, wasn't there enough, wasn't caring enough ... .and in some ways I wasn't.  Our relationship was anything but conventional and I know it was hard on her, especially in light of the possible BPD.  I also opened myself up to her more than I have anyone and letting her go has been one of the hardest things I have had to deal with emotionally in my life.  It makes it even harder when by all appearances she feels nothing for me any more ... .almost like she never felt anything.  

It isn't just a daily struggle for me right now, it seems more like a minute by minute struggle.  I sometimes wish I had the ability to detach and discard as easily as she appears to have done with me ... .but then it wouldn't have been real if I could.  Perhaps it wasn't real for her, I don't know.  Even though I know it will eventually get better, I am certain I will carry around some of this pain from losing her for the rest of my life.

[Gbo1957]

Yes ... .Yes ... .Yes.  Avoidance of the hurtful action, projection and acting like nothing happened was the way my ex acted every time she did something hurtful.

You would never know on the outside, but pwBPD tend to feel horrible about the things they done internally. From what my pwBPD has told me, it is hell living with that much shame, guilt, and self-loathing. That is why a lot of times a pwBPD will engage in impulsive behavior like self-harm, substances, sex, gambling, binge eating, etc., to regulate their emotions or make themselves feel better. Ironically the aftermath of impulsive behavior adds to shame, guilt, and self-loathing. It is a cycle of self-sabotage.

From a non-BPD perspective it can seem like they are cold or indifferent, but that is typically not the case.

In 30,years  of marriage  my wife,never came  to me,to apologize for any of her,angry rages. I felt,she saw,herself as,in,the right in every case. Even,when,after,30,years of marriage and me,bending  backwards  to help and understand she never came to me,to,say,she was,wrong and would try and be,better. When i told her after 30 years of marriage and the last episode of anger and unbreakable resentment that she killed the love i had for. That i didn't love her any more. She never once said she was sorry or would try and change.

. Further i get away i see how relationship was us both working issues in stay with her so long. I do not have to prove  my selfworth by staying in that situation of endless negatives.