How to sift out the real/true feelings of a pwBPD

[walbsy7]

So my uBPDw has a lot to say, all the time. Sometimes it's high praise, sometimes it is high sin. Realistically I stand somewhere in between, probably 80/20 praise/sin. But when they are not dysregilating, cause some conversations are like that, how exactly do you understand what they actually have a problem with and what they are projecting onto you? I can't think of examples at the moment , cause it happens so often and I am mentally exhausted, but does anyone else have his dilemma?

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[Sadly]

Not really got any answers but then I don't think they have either sometimes. it's hard to understand. I have gathered that sometimes it's not the actual subject at all that causes a blow out. If they at that time are feeling an internal pressure, out it comes. For instance we may have both in agreement about something and weeks later I might mention it in conversation and he would look at me and say " I disagree" and then go off loudly explaining his view getting angrier and angrier even when I didn't say anything because I very soon learnt that was a pointless exercise and just added fuel to the fire. If I did say anything I was accused of always thinking I was right and picking an argument and if I didn't say anything I was sulking and proving his point that I was wrong and didn't have a valid point of view. No win no win for me. Bewildering to say the least. My high praise lasted all of 2 months in a 12 month relationship I'm afraid.

[Rockylove]

... .it happens so often and I am mentally exhausted... .

it is DEFINITELY mentally exhausting!  I know from my own experience with my uBPDh that it's not always going to be something we can figure out.  I will sometimes find out well after the fact, what the real issue was, as he will say it in the course of another conversation (or rant) and then it all will make sense.  Other times I'm left scratching my head.  I'm intelligent and intuitive enough to see the writing between the lines.  For example... .He is on a new kick... .he says I'm an alcoholic (and our live-in friend is too) and if we drink, we have to go to our rooms to do it.       He even told the therapist that I'm an alcoholic, but couldn't say what behaviors were bothering him about me drinking.

Since my husband's stroke he is taking anti-depressants (which he hates taking) and can't drink (he always liked his beer).  He did the same thing with cigarettes.  He can't smoke so no one else can either and he took away all the ashtrays indoors and outdoors.  I totally appreciate the not smoking in front of him, but out doors?  It wasn't as though he came out and said he can't stand to see anyone else drink and smoke if he can't, but the message was pretty clear.

[Cat Familiar]

I'm in a numb phase, where I listen to the praise and it doesn't do much for me and I also listen to the criticism and it doesn't bother me much either.

I used to respond more verbally, but then he told me I was being defensive or justifying myself, when I thought I was merely sharing my opinion. So now I listen and look for patterns.

Frankly, I don't care so much about what he thinks or feels as I used to. It gets exhausting following the drama.

[joshbjoshb]

So my uBPDw has a lot to say, all the time. Sometimes it's high praise, sometimes it is high sin. Realistically I stand somewhere in between, probably 80/20 praise/sin. But when they are not dysregilating, cause some conversations are like that, how exactly do you understand what they actually have a problem with and what they are projecting onto you? I can't think of examples at the moment , cause it happens so often and I am mentally exhausted, but does anyone else have his dilemma?

Here is the thing.

If you need her praise, than her praise will make you feel good and her criticism will make you feel horrible.

Now, since most of her criticism comes from her feeling bad at that moment, than most likely much of it is not real. So you are trying to understand what's real or not so you know what to get offended by?

Instead, if you are a self aware person, you know your flaws, you know your praises, and don't need it from the outside, whatever is being told to you will have much less impact on you.

I tend to believe praise because I believe I am awesome so when she tells me that, I am having a easy time believing it.

However, when she is telling me how horrible I am, I know it's not true so it doesn't have much impact on me

Try it. It works.

[walbsy7]

I think this thread is getting slightly misinterpreted, and that is probably my fault. I am not looking for praise from her, and I feel like I am in formflier's shoes, I am numb to most things that my uBPDw says. I guess what I am really asking how do I know if my wife wants a divorce. Does she really think that my true problems ( ones that I know I have) are really things she can't live with? Or is it "normal" and she is just exhadderating it? Is something that I do, for example character type things, like generally being introverted or avoiding confrontations with others (outside my relationship with my wife), does it really actually bother her and considered a deal breaker for her? Or is she projecting and all of that? How can I sift through that stuff? Am I wasting my time? Does it matter? I know I should probably have conversations with others on it and try to get a "normal" opinion, but I am not ready to open this can with anyone yet, mostly cause I don't know who to do it with, so I ask you guys

[flourdust]

Q. How do you know if your wife wants a divorce?

A. She serves you with papers.


Seriously -- my BPDw threatens divorce all the time. Sometimes in just those words, or sometimes she'll say "We're done" or "I don't want to be married to you." Or she'll say "You'd better arrange a sitter for our daughter, because I won't be here tonight."

I pretty much ignore these comments. She doesn't act on them. They're expressions of her anger and fear and attempts to either hurt me or to get me to comfort her. (Yes, most people don't try to solicit comfort with threats, but that's the BPD way.) If she ever acts on one of her threats, I'll deal with it at the time.

I think about divorce, too. But I don't threaten her. If I decide to do it, I'll just do it. Period.

As for how you can know what your wife is really feeling -- well, that's a hard one. With my wife, I think it's sometimes generalized anxiety, sometimes projection of anger with other people (our daughter, co-workers) onto me, sometimes it's a negative memory from hours, days, or years ago that is swirling around in her head. Trying to figure out what the real problem is rarely makes a difference -- even if I solve it, the negative mood remains, so another problem will pop up to feed it. Like playing whack-a-mole. You might find techniques like validation, to try to de-escalate her volatile mood, might help you.

[MaybeSo]

So my uBPDw has a lot to say, all the time. Sometimes it's high praise, sometimes it is high sin. Realistically I stand somewhere in between, probably 80/20 praise/sin. But when they are not dysregilating, cause some conversations are like that, how exactly do you understand what they actually have a problem with and what they are projecting onto you? I can't think of examples at the moment , cause it happens so often and I am mentally exhausted, but does anyone else have his dilemma?

Well,  you mentioned FF and he posted a text from his wife the other day.  In the text, she was going on and on and on using a lot of dramatic and inflamatory wording about what probably boiled down to something like:

 "I am feeling overwhelmed with this move."  Okay, that's valid. It's not his job to protect her from ever feeling overwhelmed, but that is certainly an experience we can all relate to and could validate and empathize with.

If she just said "I am feeling overwhelmed with this move" that would make so much more sense than all the projection and blaming and drama that poured out of her (about him... .projection).    

So, I think it's important to NOT totally focus on the other person,  but on ourselves. If your focus is on her, you will be exhausted. When you focus on yourself, not her,  your focus will be on checking in with yourself and managing to :  

Stay calm. Don't personalize or get attached to either idealization OR devaluation.  Have boundaries.  

When someone is using a lot of hyperbole (either idealizing or devaluing) don't get attached to either the good or the bad, b/c it's all projection when it's drama-filled.  ALL BLAMING is a kind of  negative projection.  Right?  Most 'idealization' is just positive projection, right?  Find the kernal of truth or the core issue if you can (you can't if you are personalizing any of it)... .so if you can't... .that's your cue that you need to focus on keeping YOUR side of the street clean, by staying calm and grounded and not personalizing, and not getting hooked into this other person's drama and projections by having good boundaries.  

Someone with a lot of emotional ups and downs will FEEL differently all the time.  

So, you can't really set your sail by what they are feeling at any given time.  That's a codependent stance.  That is the kiss of death.  

Be open and curious about what her needs and feelings are ... .but stay grounded in your own core individuality and maintain your boundary as a separate person.  You might want to be empathetic and supportive but also take a stance that you trust she will be able to work her "problems" out on her own and that she doesn't always require your participation.  

It's not your job to have to understand and accommodate her all the time or provide her a problem-free life.  There will always be some discomfort in relationships and in life... .you can't fix that for her.   When we act 'as if' it's the end of the world if they are feeling upset, we do them and ourselves a disservice.  

[mazes]

Does she really think that my true problems ( ones that I know I have) are really things she can't live with? Or is it "normal" and she is just exhadderating it? Is something that I do, for example character type things, like generally being introverted or avoiding confrontations with others (outside my relationship with my wife), does it really actually bother her and considered a deal breaker for her?

My uBPDh does this too.  It really bothered me for many more years than I would like to admit.  But I have come to realize that character type issues (my uBPDh's issues with me are that I like to read and write and study, and I am also an introvert) are just my h being disappointed that I don't fit his idealistic version of a wife.  I have been the same person since we were dating, I really think he thought I would morph into his perfect wife.  I leave his feelings regarding who I am as his responsibility to work through.  I don't take those criticisms personally. And I leave it up to him as far as divorce.  If he needs certain things in a wife that I am not, he is free to leave as far as I am concerned.  A marriage is two "individuals" creating a life together.  It is really as simple as that.  I don't know if this helps at all but coming to this realization has helped me quite a bit.

[Chilibean13]

I'm getting to the point that when my uBPDh begins yelling accusaitons at me, I immediately reverse it in my mind and ask myself if this is something that he usually expresses about himself during his depressed phases. If so, I know that it's not me. If it is, then I validate and then apologize when he is calmer.

As for his wild ideas of things he says he wants to do, I honestly just let them go. If they are even the slightest bit normal I encourage him to make a list of ways to accomplish them. If they are hair brained or exagerated, I either ignore it or let him know that it's on him to get it done.

[walbsy7]

I'm getting to the point that when my uBPDh begins yelling accusaitons at me, I immediately reverse it in my mind and ask myself if this is something that he usually expresses about himself during his depressed phases. If so, I know that it's not me. If it is, then I validate and then apologize when he is calmer.

Thats an interesting way at dissecting it. Does that generally hold up?

[Cat Familiar]

I'm getting to the point that when my uBPDh begins yelling accusaitons at me, I immediately reverse it in my mind and ask myself if this is something that he usually expresses about himself during his depressed phases. If so, I know that it's not me. If it is, then I validate and then apologize when he is calmer.

As for his wild ideas of things he says he wants to do, I honestly just let them go. If they are even the slightest bit normal I encourage him to make a list of ways to accomplish them. If they are hair brained or exagerated, I either ignore it or let him know that it's on him to get it done.

Chilebean, It sounds like you're getting very good at discerning what is yours and what is his stuff.   I would caution you not to apologize for anything that isn't yours. It sets a bad precedent and adds to the power struggle. (Been there, done that.)

I, too, had a relationship where my ex-husband would come up with harebrained ideas and expect me to be enthusiastic about some improbable future concept. Good that you're able to ignore the crazy.  

[ArleighBurke]

My uBPDw is the same - threatens divorce often in arguements.

But for your question of "so how do you know what they actually feel?":

- that IS how they feel RIGHT THEN! Right then - they want to divorce you! That is their FEELINGS talking - not their logic. When they calm down, then they realise that divorce isn't really good.

Just like when my 5yr old decides to paint Daddy's Harley and "fix it" for me - right then i FEEL like strangling her. That's really what I feel. I also feel love for my child. Right at that moment - the balance is distorted. If I was BPD, I wouldn't be able to deal with feeling both love and hate at the same time, and may act on my feelings.

But since I DON'T have BPD, I can understand that this feeling is just in this moment, that the rage will pass and I will soon be able to put things back in perspective.  Do I really feel hate? Absolutely! But i can 'manage' it.

I guess your question is then - what is the "average" feeling they have - once they get over their "rage" how do you know what their resting state of feeling is? And to that - I'd say it was whatever they acted on. When they calm down, and serve you the divorce papers - then I guess that's how they feel. If they calm down and things go back to "normal" then it was just the emotion of the moment talking.

It's really hard if you've been co-dependent for a while - but trust yourself. Look at yourself and ask whether what she's saying is true or not - and choose whether you act on the critisism or not.

[waverider]

The problem is pwBPD have no ability to accept and live with their feelings, they have to get them out, hence the projection. Projection is often a way of expunging the feeling. So they feel them in the moment, but the act of saying it gets rid of it. Hence the quick backflips as it has gone.

When nons get these feelings they analyse them internally, attempt to justify them, if they can't they write them of as invalid and self soothe, often without any one else being any the wiser.

It is the difference between having a working, or not, executive processing part of the mind.

[formflier]

Stay calm. Don't personalize or get attached to either idealization OR devaluation.  Have boundaries.  

As we all get to know each other on here... .I like to give credit to those that gave me ideas that have really helped a particular problem.

Notwendy has a thing she posts about from time to time where when someone is accusing her of something... .she says to herself "If this person was accusing me of being a pink elephant... .would I be upset?"  The answer is no.  She knows she is not a pink elephant... .so whatever is being said has nothing to do with her

This has really helped me when my wife says things like "you are lazy, never do anything... .etc etc et"

I pause (pausing is almost always good... .better chance to respond... .instead of react) for a second or two... .and think to myself... ."Have I been lazy today and do I never do anything".

If the answer comes back that I'm not lazy... .and I occassionaly get off my a$$ and do something... .well... .whatever is being said doesn't apply to me.

I'm fine with this... .and to use a "Waveriderism"... .I don't need to sell my version of reality to my wife (she doesn't want to buy)... .no more than I need to buy her version.

I'll confess... that the closer the accusations get to reality... .the easier it is to "get me riled up".  So I have to be especially careful when stuff starts landing close to how I really feel.

FF