Toward Self-Acceptance for my own part in the dance

[Harri]

Hi there.  I've been thinking about how self-forgiveness fits in terms of my role in the crazy family dynamic I grew up in and which continued well into adulthood and I kept getting stuck.  Forgiveness seems to imply that I can forgive myself for acts I committed against another person.  I have no business making that choice for other people.  Also, the idea of self-forgiveness for past acts implies that I should have known then what I know now.  The fact is, I did not know certain things.  I did not know my family was messed up and that what they were doing to me, and me to them was wrong.  I did what I knew and when I learned better I did better.  I get it.  It seems ridiculous to try to forgive myself for not knowing something.  It puts me right into the victim role of "I am an idiot.  How could I have stood by and allowed such things to happen/continue?  How could I not have known?"  Well, heck no to that!  I am no one's victim not even to myself!  

(For those of you who know me on this board, you will quickly realize that I am talking through my butt here because I *have* been victimizing myself by blaming, verbally abusing myself and dragging around the putrid leftovers of my past... .no matter how much I tried to pretend otherwise.  I can see what I have been doing to myself better now, so there is no need for "well duh Harri" comments! I get it     )

So as I have been thinking about my past and how to stop being a victim of it, I've come to see differences between forgiveness and acceptance and how they fit into my goal.

What do I mean?  Well, I remember a time when I was in my late teens and my father came home from work.  I was in my room and he was walking through the house towards his (right next to mine) sort of chanting "I'm home, I'm home, I'm home" as he walked along (this was something he did frequently).  I remember feeling overwhelmed with annoyance and rage and instead of simply saying "Hi" like I usually did, I said something like "Who gives a damn.  Shut up, no one cares."  in a very harsh voice.  

Forgiveness? How does one forgive something like that?  It was cruel.  I let myself lose control.  Trying to forgive myself for these things is impossible without putting myself into the victim role and as a result of that, deflecting the responsibility for my actions.  Besides, it is not for me to forgive.  It is my Father who has the choice of forgiveness (well he *had* the choice but I never gave him the opportunity by apologizing to him back then.  He is dead now).  I say I am sorry to my father all the time in my head and my heart for how I talked to him and treated him and if he were alive I would look him in the eye, say "I am sorry Dad, you did not deserve that cruelty from me".  I understand how, through the context of my home life and childhood, I could come to say such things, but it does not justify or excuse my act.  Context matters in terms of understanding my behaviors but has no place in forgiveness.  Context, often leads to justifying a behavior and staying a victim to my own self <--- Slippery slope there.  

Acceptance?  I have no choice but to accept that I am capable of being cruel, otherwise I will for sure repeat it over and over.  So I must accept that I said it and I can not allow myself to cringe away or justify it (via context), but I do cry and it hurts to think about.  It hurts to know I am capable of such cruelty and it is hard to accept that there is a dark, angry bitter part of me.  I understand how I could come to say such things (again, context), but it does not justify or excuse my act and it does not move me towards acceptance.  Again, context matters up to a point (understanding my behavior) but has no role in self-acceptance.  Context often leads to deflecting and in a sense projecting ones own issues on someone else.  And of course, victimization of my own self.   Slippery slope there.  

The part that hurts the most is that my father never again said those words when he came home.  Through my anger and rage, I stifled a part of him and took away a bit of his twinkle.  I know how much that hurts and I know how devastating it is to know that those who are supposed to love you and care about you don't like you and chisel away at that twinkly part that make you you.

Acceptance is so necessary, freeing, painful and uncomfortable.  Through acceptance, I will move closer to never devaluing another person or myself in such a way again.

BTW, the example I gave above is, unfortunately, not an isolated incident.  It is just a small sampling of the things I have said and done.  I could add more examples and if one sticks in my mind like the one above did, I will.

Thanks for reading.

The Existential Paradox from Dr. Joseph Santoro:

We are not responsible for how we came to be who we are as adults

but as adults we are responsible for whom we have become and for everything we say and do.

[HappyChappy]

Hi Harri,

You raise some very good points and issues I’m sure we all struggle with here. But the example of telling your Dad off, sounds like a human reaction. Hitler and Starling made mistakes, you’re just being normal. What’s to forgive ? Is my short and flippant response, I may have upset you, but I don’t need your forgiveness.  Because I trust you know I’m trying to help. I also know I’m not perfect and can be rude, flippant as can anyone.

My kids make a mess when they paint, and it reminds me of how my BPD would rage, but I don’t. In her eyes I’m being soft, but in mine I’m being human. Kids make a mess.  But the point is I was taught by my BPD unless I was perfect I needed to apologies. That’s b*ll*cks.

As a child my BPD told me I was appalling behaved, my friend said I apologies too much and was well behaved. My BPD told me I was an idiot, my friends thought I was some kind of genius. But always I tended to believe the rubbish my BPD told me, because she repeated it over and over as a mantra, propaganda. But brainwashing doesn’t make it true.  As a BPD can’t except blame and projects, a simple trick is to get you to apologies (and avoid doing so themselves). Get you to forgive (whilst they hold the grudge).

You come across as a lovely, thoughtful, intelligent lady who was just brainwashed into thinking you need to be forgiven a lot. Also you don’t have to forgive others, forgive to help yourself, forgive to move on, but if you move on without it that’s fine too. I know Gandhi could forgive everyone, but he would have been shot way sooner on my estate if he’d taken that approach (or worn a loin cloth).

I hope this has helped and if not,  I don’t give a fek  (I’ m just trying to impress you really). Be good to yourself. 

[daughterandmom]

Oh Harri

I really hear the pain in your post. I understand what you are saying, I have felt this way myself. But let me say something from another perspective-

As a parent myself, my children said many mean, sometimes downright cruel things to me when they were teenagers.  I do not hold this against them. It hurt when they said it, but I knew they were kids. Sane parents do not carry these things with them. I am sure your dad knew you loved him and forgave you right then.

Like Happy Chappy said, it's our BPD parents that teach us that we can't be forgiven. But that's about them, it's not true.

Just the fact that you are worried about this so many years later shows what a kind caring person you are.

I think we all do and say things as teenagers that we regret, and wouldn't do as adults. Throw in growing up in a difficult household and it's that much harder.

You are a good person Harri 

[Kwamina]

Hi Harri

(For those of you who know me on this board, you will quickly realize that I am talking through my butt here because I *have* been victimizing myself by blaming, verbally abusing myself and dragging around the putrid leftovers of my past... .no matter how much I tried to pretend otherwise.  I can see what I have been doing to myself better now, so there is no need for "well duh Harri" comments! I get it     )

This is one way of looking at what you've been doing here. Another way of looking at your presence here has been presented by HappyChappy and I agree with him:

You come across as a lovely, thoughtful, intelligent lady

Learning to love and accept ourselves, including all the things we've said and done in the past, is truly essential for our healing and to be able to move on.

What do I mean?  Well, I remember a time when I was in my late teens and my father came home from work.  I was in my room and he was walking through the house towards his (right next to mine) sort of chanting "I'm home, I'm home, I'm home" as he walked along (this was something he did frequently).  I remember feeling overwhelmed with annoyance and rage and instead of simply saying "Hi" like I usually did, I said something like "Who gives a damn.  Shut up, no one cares."  in a very harsh voice.  

This moment has clearly made a huge impact on you and has stuck with you through all these years. Perhaps it can help to analyze what was going on beneath the surface. Looking back, can you put into words why you felt overwhelmed with annoyance and rage?

I understand how, through the context of my home life and childhood, I could come to say such things, but it does not justify or excuse my act.  Context matters in terms of understanding my behaviors but has no place in forgiveness.  Context, often leads to justifying a behavior and staying a victim to my own self

I think it is difficult to evaluate an act in isolation without considering the context in which it took place. The act and the context are inextricably linked in various ways. The acts take place withing the context, are influenced by the context and the acts themselves also influence the context. We are of course responsible for our actions no matter the context, but I think that If we separate the act from the context, it is hard to really determine if something was 'cruel', 'bad' etc. or if it was not. The words you spoke can be perceived as hurtful or cruel if you evaluate them in isolation without considering the context. But is that a fair way to look at your own behavior? When you live in an continually  hostile and abusive environment, all acts get influenced by that negative context. When you live in a loving and nurturing environment, all acts get influenced by that positive context.

Acceptance?  I have no choice but to accept that I am capable of being cruel, otherwise I will for sure repeat it over and over.

We all make mistakes, but making mistakes does not mean that we are mistakes. You are focusing on your own acts and I think that is admirable and takes a lot of courage to take such a critical look at yourself like this I do think there's a difference between acting in what could be perceived as 'cruelly' and actually being cruel. You are very much focusing on your own behavior now and are finding it hard to accept certain things you have done. Perhaps it can help to turn this around. When you look at the way your father treated you, the way he abused you and also how he did not stop your mother from abusing you, how do you evaluate his acts towards you? Based on previous posts you've made here about your dad it seems you found it very hard to label his behavior as abuse and struggled with separating his acts from the context. Why do you feel when it comes to yourself, that you find it so important to separate your acts from the context?

The part that hurts the most is that my father never again said those words when he came home.  Through my anger and rage, I stifled a part of him and took away a bit of his twinkle.  I know how much that hurts and I know how devastating it is to know that those who are supposed to love you and care about you don't like you and chisel away at that twinkly part that make you you.

You are taking responsibility for quite a lot here. When I look at this incident, I think there are various ways to look at it. One way of looking at it you've described here by saying you were 'cruel and through your anger and rage took away part of his twinkle'. Considering that you grew up in an in many ways very abusive and hostile environment, there are also other ways to look at this. As a child you might not be fully aware of how dysfunctional your family is, but deep down inside your body and soul might be more aware than you think. The reality of your childhood was that both of your parents unfortunately abused you. That abuse is the context and your father coming home chanting 'I'm home, I'm home, I'm home' can be viewed in isolation as your are doing right now but can also be viewed within that context. When viewed within the context of abuse and hostility, your father's chanting can also be perceived as a total denial of reality and the abuse that was taking place. You were a child that was being hurt by your parents who were adults. Like the lines you quoted from Dr. Joseph Santoro, your parents were not responsible for how they came to be who they were as adults, however as adults they most definitely were responsible for whom they had become and for everything they said and did to you. When you takes this into account, another way of looking at your father's chanting is that it was extremely disrespectful to you, a child that was being abused. Your reality was not being acknowledged when adults were walking around chanting as if nothing was wrong. In a sense a parent chanting like that can then be seen as yet another form of abandonment and that could also very well explain the overwhelming sense of annoyance and rage you experienced to which you reacted by saying those words to your dad.

You have focused on your own part in this particular incident and like I said, I find it very courageous that you have taken this critical look at yourself and are striving to grow and heal I have tried to show that all acts are inextricably linked to and influenced by the context in which they take place. To me that isn't necessarily the same as assuming a victim role, it just means that we are acknowledging reality and all its complexities as it is. I have also tried to show that all acts, not just your acts, can be perceived differently when you take the context into account. Your father's chanting can also be viewed very differently when you take the context into account and especially the role he played in creating and maintaining that context.

I too like HappyChappy and daughterandmom would like to emphasize the goodness inside of you and urge you to try and treat yourself with the same love and compassion that you have shown to so many other members here. You are well loved and respected here Harri  

[HappyChappy]

I too like HappyChappy and daughterandmom would like to emphasize the goodness inside of you and urge you to try and treat yourself with the same love and compassion that you have shown to so many other members here. You are well loved and respected here Harri  

You truely are loved and respected on this board.   

[Harri]

Hi.  After reading your responses, I had to take some time... .though I did not think I would need 5 weeks to think about this thread!     The fact is, I need even more time to sort things out, but I have a feeling I need to do some of the sorting here.

Thank you Kwamina, HappyC, and daughterandmom for listening, writing such kind and loving things and helping me with this.  When i wrote the first post, I was not getting down on myself at all, or at least I didn't think I was.  After reading your responses, I have been wondering.  I have a tendency to sacrifice myself and take responsibility too far.  I have a martyr complex plus I will throw myself under the bus rather than watch other people be hurt or embarrassed.  I don't mean martyr like my mother did (the whole "look at all I have sacrificed for you" BS) more of looking very harshly at myself and my behaviors and then owning them, announcing them and beating myself up for them.  I guess that is black and white thinking about myself because things like the example I related are typical and I use them to paint myself black... .or at least keep the black paint on.

I need some paint remover.     In the meantime though, I just wanted to bump this.  I will be responding more to the specifics.  Just dipping my toes in for now.