seem to be sinking

[foggydew]

Just seem to be getting more and more depressed, and non of the things I try to do get me out of it. I'm a bit afraid of making silly decisions in this frame of mind... and yet perhaps I need to make some. UBPD friend has moved away, is doing well, is not neglecting me ... .but the basic problem has reared its head. I'm lonely, I suppose, and it is so difficult to make contact here. I do try. I go out. I invite people back (but often they don't want to come). I don't get invited. Very seldom, anyway. I tried volunteering too: still the in-group and the outsider problem. I don't want to be a nuisance. The nice people in the family of my late husband are all busy.

I don't feel interested in anything any more. It seems I write don't, don't don't all the time... I'm older, and a foreigner... .just different, anyway.

I'm thinking about moving and trying somewhere else. But is this sensible, or just driven by my depression? Upd person mentioned he was looking for a larger place, but couldn't afford it. I suggested combining  our resources... .and being there with him part of the time. Not giving up my place here.  What I really need is just somewhere to belong. To feel useful.  I've been trying to build up a social life outside of friend the whole time, and it hasn't worked.

Also perhaps travelling and spending time in my country of origin, where I have one or two friends still.

I just don't know what is real in myself at the moment.

[valet]

Hey there foggy, that's a bummer. I've been in that place a few times myself before. 

What do you love to do? I'd start there and work my way up. You gotta find that thing to hang your hat on, as they say.

[C.Stein]

Take this time to reconnect with yourself and be comfortable with yourself and being alone.  

Many times in my life I have seen people surround themselves with others just to avoid being alone with themselves.  

The problem is, it doesn't matter how many people there are they are still lonely.

If you have the confidence to stand alone you won't need others to fill the emptiness inside that you are feeling.

Once you gain that confidence I think you will find you "fit in" better.

[foggydew]

Thanks for your replies. On the one hand, I think it is good that I have to really think about myself and my reactions... .on the other, sometimes it feels as if I'm swimming in custard. I actually quite enjoy being alone, and prefer doing lots of things alone. But when these phases come, it's like being paralysed... nothing interests me. I am alone about 90% of the time. Somehow I need the security that I am important for someone, and not just tolerated. pwBPD skyped with me for an hour or so today... and wow... .I have the energy to clean up for a change.

And you answered me... hey, I exist!

I'll just have to keep trying.

[bravhart1]

Have you read any books by Daniel Amen? He is the leading expert on depression and has some very exciting news about help and treatment, which you can start today, without fear of making anything worse.

I would highly recommend going to library, or your online book source and looking him up. He's also a regular on PBS.

My daughter has had bouts with depression and since we have read up on his treatments, its been a dramatic improvement.

Best of luck, and please keep reaching out, we REALLY do care!

[valet]

Hey Foggy, I think that everyone needs relationships (be it with friends, family, partners, etc.) to stay in a balanced frame of mind. We are social creatures after all, and I don't think that there's anything wrong with meeting our own needs in this way. It's nice to know that we have people that care about us. I also think its great that you are able to spend lots of time alone. I have found, in my experience, that when I have a rich inner life involving the things that I enjoy the most, I feel happy.

I don't know too much about your circumstances at the moment, but I just wanna let you know that we're all here and listening! And yes, you do exist! 

[eeks]

I'm lonely, I suppose, and it is so difficult to make contact here. I do try. I go out. I invite people back (but often they don't want to come). I don't get invited. Very seldom, anyway. I tried volunteering too: still the in-group and the outsider problem. I don't want to be a nuisance. The nice people in the family of my late husband are all busy.

Hi foggydew, I spend a lot of time alone as well so I'm familiar with this challenge, especially the "in-group and the outsider problem".  My experience has been that groups differ greatly in terms of how welcoming they are towards new people, and how long it takes to feel like I "belong".  Variables like whether the group is based around an activity with technical aspects or "lingo" (if you don't use the group's language and buy into the concepts, will you be part of the "in crowd"?), whether a lot of the people from the group in question already know each other from other groups (cliques can form), etc. 

It must be frustrating when you invite people to do things with you and they decline your invitation.  I have noticed that it can take a lot of trial and error to find compatible friends who are not too busy, and "on the same page" in terms of what they want out of a friendship.  And when you're already feeling lonely or depressed, it can be hard to work up the motivation to try again when previous efforts have been disappointing. 

I'm wondering if, at least to stave off loneliness temporarily, there's an option to go to an event or class that is regularly scheduled, that's the type of event you'd feel comfortable going to on your own?  At least you get to see people and interact with them, even if you don't make any new friends.  Also, sometimes making friends with one person who knows a lot of others and can introduce you, can get your "foot in the door". 

You said in your initial post that you want to "feel useful".  If I understand correctly, you're saying you'd like to feel that your efforts and contributions make a difference to yourself and/or others.  What activities do that for you?

[foggydew]

Thanks for your replies. I have volunteered for work with refugees, am having a party to which people are coming... for a change... .I'm trying. Compounding the problem right now is that my pwBPD is coming this weekend to pick up all his belongings and will be meeting his new girlfriend for the first time at my party. I wish it were over. I wish they didn't post their ups and downs of Facebook. I wish I knew where I was with him. I wish we could be a faimly. I wish... .I weren't so stupid.

[C.Stein]

I wish... .I weren't so stupid.

Why do you feel this way? 

[foggydew]

Because I want to be logical, unemotional, sensible. Not inapppropriate. But I'm not, and I'm trying to learn to live with it, work round it.

[C.Stein]

Because I want to be logical, unemotional, sensible. Not inapppropriate. But I'm not, and I'm trying to learn to live with it, work round it.

Yes, I want the same.  We aren't Vulcan's though, it is OK to feel emotions as long as we don't let them control our actions.  Does that seem reasonable?

[foggydew]

Reasonable, yes... .  ... .unfortunately, sometimes I can't tell what is emotion-driven and what is reasonable ... sometimes they look the same. eg. I feel lonely, I want a family connection; nothing I have tried has worked up till now... so, should I share a house part time with pwBPD? Seems logical... .or is it?

[C.Stein]

No one can tell you if that is logical.  Only you know what you are capable of emotionally.

I will say however that you may want to consider if your need for companionship is going to compromise your emotional well being.

[foggydew]

Interestingly enough, it always has. There is no reason to believe anything is going to be any different now. Companionship always seems to have had a high price on it - whatever kind of companionship.  Even in families.

[C.Stein]

Interestingly enough, it always has. There is no reason to believe anything is going to be any different now. Companionship always seems to have had a high price on it - whatever kind of companionship.  Even in families.

Can you explain what you mean by high price?

[foggydew]

High price? One has to bury many of one's needs to be accepted. Smile most of the time. Ensure that other people's needs are met. Put up with behaviour. Fit in. Not have problems. Spread your needs over lots of different people. Do without. And, believe me, I'm not particularly talking about relationships.

[foggydew]

Well, I have made up my mind, and friend seems to be happy with idea too. I pay a sum towards renting a house and flat, and will spend time there. And in my present home, and in my country of origin. So I keep moving. Yes, I am worried a bit about friend... if he will start the push/pull, devaluation, especially if he has a new girlfriend. But I won't be there all the time, won't be dependent, and will have the opportunity to start and try new things. But I want to live a bit, not sit here getting depressed waiting for something to happen. Today's awful news (Paris) brought back to me that we have one life, and we have to get as much out of this life as possible as we don't get a second chance.

Yes, it may not be a sensible idea. Many people will think I'm stupid, or that our friendship is inappropriate. So what. This is my life. He calls me sugar mommy, makes fun of me, is often really difficult... but I have to think about me. And the bigger picture. Here's hoping.

And he has to make suitable arrangements too... so we will see.

[C.Stein]

It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.  What matters is what you think, what is right for you.  If you feel this is the right move for you to make then embrace it with enthusiasm.  You can't gain (or fail) if you never try.  

[eeks]

High price? One has to bury many of one's needs to be accepted. Smile most of the time. Ensure that other people's needs are met. Put up with behaviour. Fit in. Not have problems. Spread your needs over lots of different people. Do without. And, believe me, I'm not particularly talking about relationships.

I had some of this expected of me (for instance, as a teenager I could not say anything to an adult outside the family that ran even a remote risk of offending them) but what you say reminds me more of my mother's upbringing by her parents.  She and her sisters have talked about it and my aunt jokingly said "My 'needs'?  What are those?"  My mother has said to me that she doesn't even know what she wants, let alone be able to act on it.

You might find this relevant, about narcissistic family systems:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108970.0;all

It might be worthwhile too to start exploring your beliefs/assumptions around conflict.  For example, one of mine is "if someone is angry at me, that means I've done something wrong."

[foggydew]

Thank you. Seems I tick all the the right boxes. Seems I'm codependent. Seems I can't get anything to work. Don't do the right things. Just a waste of space. Can't seem to get out.

[foggydew]

And I do try, I have tried. I go out, I volunteer, I try to help, I invite people back. Nothing works. I just have to try and believe that BPD person needs me, is interested in what I do. He at least. But that is a feather in the wind.

[fromheeltoheal]

High price? One has to bury many of one's needs to be accepted. Smile most of the time. Ensure that other people's needs are met. Put up with behaviour. Fit in. Not have problems. Spread your needs over lots of different people. Do without. And, believe me, I'm not particularly talking about relationships.

There's a saying in the States, "Let your freak flag fly", which I've taken to heart as I've gotten older.  The concept is be entirely yourself without compromise, regardless, which is a sea change from me in my youth: figure out who I needed to be in a given situation to be liked and accepted, and then be that, so much frickin' work!  The benefits of letting your freak flag fly are that it's polarizing, some people are going to like you and some aren't and you'll know right away, and, the ones that do like you, you don't need to let them see the 'real you' slowly as you let your guard down, because it was the real you the whole time, not that that means we have porous boundaries, we still should be disclosing personal details incrementally and noticing what response we get, but there was no facade.  Plus it a hell of a lot less work.  The way to do it is do it, which takes some courage at first, but courage isn't something we get, it's something we do.

It might be worthwhile too to start exploring your beliefs/assumptions around conflict.  For example, one of mine is "if someone is angry at me, that means I've done something wrong."

Nice belief identification eeks.  Mine was "if someone is angry at me, they will hit me".  My parents never hit me, that doesn't have an FOO origin, more like bullying when I was young, but experience has shown me that people who are yelling aren't hitting (new belief!), and interesting how I equate anger with yelling, plenty of that going on now and then.  It's the ones who aren't yelling you have to look out for; maybe I'm hanging out with some of the wrong people?

Anyway, have you found a replacement belief for "if someone is angry at me, that means I've done something wrong."?