Circular Arguments: "I am your mate"

[unicorn2014]

Grey kitty if I told him that he'd totally dysregulate. I'll call him on my way to meeting. Usually we get in fights after meeting so I won't say I'll call him after , I'll just tell him I'm going to the store. If someone could pull that lesson on push/pull dynamics that would be great because two weeks ago my social worker was saying my father was doing that.

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Also ironically my pwBPD loves to accuse me of pushing him away. That's one of his favorite things to do when he dysregulates.

I think if I can stay away from addressing his text or email I will be fine.

I don't really have a whole lot of options of avoiding a dysregulation from him.

I may miss the warmth of his body however ethics and morality supersedes that. Sure I'm "lonely", I didn't start out as a single mother, I was married, but I was single for 7 years before I met him so this is nothing new. He claims he didn't know loneliness before he met me and I know he has a really hard time with that feeling.

There's part of me that doesn't care. He did this to himself. He initiated a LDR with another woman while he was still married. Yes I knew he was married by the time he came to see me but not when we first started talking. When I asked him if he was he denied it. So I allowed myself to get emotionally attached to him. Then he told me he was getting a divorce and he assured me that's what he was doing all along but his lawyer didn't do his job. It's no wonder I feel cold towards him today. My ardor has cooled significantly .

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[unicorn2014]

Hi FF, don't know Charlie Brown, I like ghost in the shell, a manga  .

Can you explain to me the football dynamic?

[formflier]

https://youtu.be/055wFyO6gag

After you watch... I'll let you explain it.

FF

[formflier]

 

Are you responsible for making sure he dysregulates... or not?

FF

[myself]

Are you responsible for making sure he dysregulates... or not?

FF

[unicorn2014]

FF I will watch after my meeting.

He told me loves his mate in a text. That doesn't bother me. It's not the same as I am your mate.

I do feel responsible for making sure he doesn't dysregulate. It's something I struggled with in therapy for years. I know I'm not responsible for him not dysregulating. So that's where I'm stuck. I can not deal with his dysregulations.

I was able to talk to him on the phone without addressing his texts and I haven't read his email yet.

Last week I shared about how he Sent an email that says he enjoys being a part of my family and then when I wouldn't respond the way he wanted he would say he shouldn't have said that. Of course he would also say he wasn't looking for a response.

I don't want to have that argument again.

I'm starting to notice a pattern in his communication as a result of writing on this board.

[unicorn2014]

Are you responsible for making sure he dysregulates... or not?

FF

I know it's not my responsibility and I can not and have not been able to deal with his dysregulations . I can not stand them. IM hypervigilant to them. I detected the slightest change in his voice and I get nervous. I can't stand managing them. If I say he's dysregulated he'll deny it until after. 

[formflier]

I do feel responsible for making sure he doesn't dysregulate. It's something I struggled with in therapy for years. I know I'm not responsible for him not dysregulating. So that's where I'm stuck.

This is most likely the most important realization that you have made. 

As long as this is the case... .he has power over you.

What do you think can be done to change this?

I can not deal with his dysregulations.

This is what I don't understand... .  You are in a LDR... .when he dysregs... .are you not able to not answer phone, avoid reaching emails and texts. 

What am I missing here?

I don't want to have that argument again.

Once the balance of power shifts in the relationship, it will be possible to never have the argument again.

Until then... .he will decide about the argument.

FF

[unicorn2014]

If I ignore him when he dysregulates it makes the problem worse. Now he's telling me he enjoys sharing our lives together. I'm trying to push him to interact more with his friends and family in his state. I don't want him to escape his life to be with me. That's not how I want to start a relationship.

He's really wanting to connect today and he's 2,000 miles away.

He's 2,000 miles away because I informed him his divorce hadn't been filed.

He's been telling me he's going to move out here for 2+ years.

I don't have much empathy or sympathy for him. I might have 2 years ago but it's gone now.

[formflier]

If I ignore him when he dysregulates it makes the problem worse. 

How so?  Worse for who?

If you don't see it... .hear it... .read it.  I don't understand how it impacts you.


FF

[unicorn2014]

I wAtched the video, I don't get it, she lied to him, she told him she wasn't going to take away the football but she did.

If he starts to dysregulate and I cut it off, it worsens.

Anyways he hasn't dysregulated yet. So far I've been able to steer clear of his feelings.

Perhaps it was a mistake to encourage him to reconnect with his friends and family in his state but I'm sick of him putting all his attention on me. They miss him, they like him, and I would like to see him interacting with more of them, not just his parents. That would show me he's emotionally healthy. That would make me want to stay. I guess I do sound undecided now but I am talking about the kind of things that would make me want to stay in the relationship.

Very early on in our r/s one of my former therapist observed he couldn't maintain a r/s with me and his best friend at the same time so it's one or the other. It's still like that, although not as extreme as it once was.

[formflier]

Anyways he hasn't dysregulated yet. So far I've been able to steer clear of his feelings.

How so?

[unicorn2014]

FF, today was a good Saturday, he did not dysregulate , I got a very positive card from his father, he tried to pick a fight at the very end of the day and I did not pick up.

[pallavirajsinghani]

mate1

māt/Submit

noun

1.

each of a pair of birds or other animals.

"a male bird sings to court a mate"

synonyms:   match, fellow, twin, companion, other half, equivalent

"this sock has lost its mate"

2.

a fellow member or joint occupant of a specified thing.

"his tablemates"

synonyms:   partner, life partner, husband, wife, spouse, lover, live-in lover, significant other, companion, helpmate, helpmeet, consort; More

verb

1.

(of animals or birds) come together for breeding; copulate.

"successful males may mate with many females"

synonyms:   breed, couple, copulate

"pandas rarely mate in captivity"

2.

connect or be connected mechanically.

"a four-cylinder engine mated to a five-speed gearbox"



These are the definitions of the word, "mate"... .which can be used both as a verb and as a noun.  Which part of this definition would you agree that it genuinely applies to you and which part does not?

I recommend that you write out the answer as though it is a class assignment and from two perspectives.  So it will be a four part assignment. --the term "mate" as a noun and as a verb.

Unicorn's perspective of being him as her mate--the term "mate" described as a noun.

Unicorn's perspective of being him as her mate--the term "mate" described as a verb.

And then reverse the tables and write out what you think is his perception of being a mate--defined as a noun

and what is his perception of being a mate--defined as a verb.

This is an exercise in clarification... .what part of this definition do you not like?  What part of the role of being a "mate" do you resent?

Ambivalence exists from both your sides.  He is as ambivalent and conflicted about this relationship as you are.  You do not want the relationship to end, you just want it to change.  He does not want it to end, he wants it to change.  He calls you to be loved and to be soothed.  Because you feel treated unfairly and have resentment, you cannot offer that.  You want to be comforted, loved and soothed too. 

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If he divorces his wife tomorrow and moves in with you, do you think your resentment will magically disappear after this act of devotion? 

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Regardless of what insights you glean, we are here to give you strength in yourself.  We are and will stay by your side, each step of the way.

[unicorn2014]

Hi palla, before I complete the exercise I need to repeat that  he can't move in with me for two reasons. 1) we're not married 2) as I mentioned earlier I live in private family housing that is income based. My "fiancé" has an income that is exponentially higher then mine. He could not live here.

My "fiancé"'s father told me my fiancé needs a lot of love. If that's not a portrait of a pwBPD I don't know what is. My fiancé stubbornly and defiantly clings to his diagnosis of PTSD. So he takes medication to treat his PTSD and calls a therapist when he needs help with step parenting . He is doing absolutely nothing to deal with his abandonment and insecurity and identity issues. He would deny having them.

My responsibility is to love my daughter, and to love myself.

Whatever happened between my fiancé and his wife she does not want to let go of him but he does not want to reconcile with her. That is what I resent. That is what is unfair. It is not clean. My fiancé went through no grieving or healing period from his former marriage. He in fact started our relationship as a parallel relationship and even though his wife moved out and he sold their house and closed their business, she's still calling him.

I can tell you right now we are not matched because I waited 7 years between relationships and during those 7 years I was in therapy, DBT, divorce recovery, 12 step programs. I worked really hard to get to a place where I could have another relationship and this is what I got. A LDR with a man with BPD symptoms he won't even deal with who's not yet divorced from his wife but wants to have a full fledged relationship with me.

I know he's devoted to me, but he can't be, he has unfinished business. I don't doubt he's devoted to me. That's not the problem. I think he's being irresponsible trying to be a part of my family before he totally severs his relationship with his wife. I think he's being selfish, self centered, needy, thoughtless. I am unhappy. If she were to let him go that would be a different story but she hasn't. I don't want that kind of drama in my life. It makes me very displeased. I think he's using me to try to escape his life and his responsibilities under the guise of helping me and being there for me.

[formflier]

If I ignore him when he dysregulates it makes the problem worse. 

How so?  Worse for who?

If you don't see it... .hear it... .read it.  I don't understand how it impacts you.


FF

Unicorn2014,

I think several of us are getting more of an understanding of your r/s and the issues that are going on there.  I believe you are heading in the right direction.

What I'm not understanding... .is how his dysregulations affect you.  Especially since you are in a LDR.

If I understand your previous answers... .you were not able to express yourself in certain ways because he would dysregulate... .and that dysregulation would have a negative impact on you.

As long as you make decisions based on whether or not your partner dysregulates or not... .BPD will have a really big hold over your life.

The reason I'm asking this question or looking for clarification is I don't understand how a partner dysregulating a couple thousand miles away has such an impact on you that you are not able to express yourself.

There very well may be a great reason that I have missed... .

Glad you had a great day yesterday...    

FF

[unicorn2014]

FF, I appreciate what you are saying. It takes a lot of energy to control myself and I am sick  of it. I am tired of making excuses for my partner. I don't want to make excuses for things that aren't ok. My partner just hung up on me because I told him I get really angry with him when he asks me if we're still doing something that I said we would be doing yesterday, and repeated it today. He literally just got off the phone with me 10 minutes ago where I said we would be doing a certain activity and then he sends me a text and tells me to let him know if we're still doing that thing. I do not have the energy to be reassuring him 24/7. Its exhausting. I am starting to really not care anymore. I don't have the emotional stamina for this kind of relationship.

////

So, to answer your question, it takes a lot of energy to prevent him from dysregulating 2,000 miles away. He was starting to dysregulate last night and he succeeded today. I don't have the energy to hold off his dysregulations. He started to dysregulate over something totally trivial last night. I wouldn't look up from what I was doing to see a pan he was showing me so he got snarky with me. I was trying to pour a batter from a mixer into a pan and he got mad at me for not looking up at him. Then he accused me of giving him a protocol lecture when I told him he could have just waited for me to finish what I was doing. Then this afternoon he hung up on me twice because I told him it really made me angry when he was always needing reassurance from me. I didn't use those words.

I told him he was heading for a dysregulation last night.

He told me on the phone "do not lecture me", which was a different flavor of what he said last night in a text "... .protocol lesson".

I hate it when he talks to me this way, I get really angry.

I can't just sit there and ignore. It takes a lot of energy not to respond to the provocation.

I hung up on him because he kept saying "do not lecture me" "do not lecture me" "do not lecture me".

We were supposed to meet at 2 today to help me daughter with her homework.

He called me to tell me this morning that his father called him back a second time.

I didn't need to know that.

I feel like he needs to me to hold his hand as I walk him down the path of rebuilding a relationship with his father.

I do not care.

I want him to get divorced.

That's all I care about.

[sweetheart]

"I want him to get a divorce."

This here unicorn is your truth, your reality. It is the reason you are unable to get beyond how you feel at the moment.

This truth runs throughout all your posts and without a resolution you will always be caught in a circular argument with your SO because you cannot move forward without it's resolution.

Given that wanting a divorce underpins everything for you and a sustainable relationship, how can move forward without it?

[unicorn2014]

"I want him to get a divorce."

This here unicorn is your truth, your reality. It is the reason you are unable to get beyond how you feel at the moment.

This truth runs throughout all your posts and without a resolution you will always be caught in a circular argument with your SO because you cannot move forward without it's resolution.

Given that wanting a divorce underpins everything for you and a sustainable relationship, how can move forward without it?

Sweetheart I do not know.

I just got in a big fight with my SO because I got sick and tired of him. He hung on me twice and when I called him back he just kept repeating "stop lecturing me" so I hung up on him. Now he's telling me I'm abusive because I told him he treats me like his old stuffed rabbit that he drags down the hall with him.

That is a very good question and one I will think about.

I never wanted to be in a relationship with a married man.

It is shameful to me.

I will give a lot of thought to your question.

Thank you for your reply!

    

Btw when I told my SO that the only way we are going to resolve this argument is if he gets a divorce he said "I see no point in talking until then".

What am I supposed to say to that?

That sounds like the silent treatment to me.

[sweetheart]

Remember when you were posting in Undecided about the need for better boundaries, what might a boundary look like here to help protect you emotionally against the situation you now find yourself in?

Forget about your fiancé for a moment, what he is doing and saying, and think about you and your needs.

Be kind to yourself and remember your truth, that's what's important.   

[unicorn2014]

Remember when you were posting in Undecided about the need for better boundaries, what might a boundary look like here to help protect you emotionally against the situation you now find yourself in?

Forget about your fiancé for a moment, what he is doing and saying, and think about you and your needs.

Be kind to yourself and remember your truth, that's what's important.   

That is a very good question sweetheart and thank you.

I know I appreciate the support from my partner in regards to my daughter.

I really appreciate having someone to talk to about her.

I will have to give this a lot of thought and perhaps reread about boundaries from a staying perspective and repost about it.

Thank you very much for your reply.

[Mutt]

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