Did she secretly know she had BPD?

[WuTanger100]

A month after my split with my uBPDxgf and I've been analysing everything. She is beautiful, charismatic and intelligent but a textbook BPD Waif.

It's the intelligence that has me thinking.

She has loads of books on psychology and emotions. She likes reading up on how to interpret body language and increase emotional intelligence. She works in the medical field but nothing to do witj psychology.

She's hinted that shes seen a doctor before for antidepressants and gets super sensitive when I mentioned talking to a psychologist when we were arguing.

In her moments of lucidity she said she was a f!@# up and always pushed away those closest to her.

She shows no signs of willingness to change and was pretty awful during devaluation.

I think she knows somethings up but maybe not quite what's up. Do you think she might be reading up so as to become better at manipulating people?

[Mutt]

Hi Wutanger100,

I think that's a good question. Let's take BPD out of picture. I think that it's easier for people on the outside to see faults with people or see where they could make better choices. I think that can be a difficult thing to hear if you're on the other end of it. I know that it can sting when someone tells me what I'm doing wrong or that I made a bad choice. Some people are more self aware than others but I find that it can be hard for people to own their behaviors and how their behaviors impact others. That's how some people can be.

I'm not saying that you said anything if the sort to your ex. I find that it helps if we figure our stuff out on our own, just like many of the members here.

BPD often has a concurring clinical depression. I can see how the behaviors seem manipulative, the self destructive, impulsive behaviors can illicit emotional responses and rescuing behavior with loved ones. A pwBPD come from all walks of life, intelligent and bright, have successful careers and they have feelings of low self worth, emptiness, shame, feel evil and are emotionally immature in relationships.

Do you feel confusion with how a beautiful, intelligent person, has low emotional intelligence, social impairments and insecure attachments patterns in relationships?

[gameover]

In her moments of lucidity she said she was a f!@# up and always pushed away those closest to her.

Ditto.  Word for word, the same thing my ex would say to me in moments of clarity.  I was looking through old texts last night--there were so many times she tried to tell me basically that she had BPD.  She probably wouldn't know the term for it, but she knew something was up.  She was telling me everything upfront--but I was arrogant and egotistical enough to believe that I knew her better than she did and there couldn't possibly something wrong with her.

That said, she was as powerless to keep from acting out the script as I was from keeping it from being acted out.  I don't think it was what either of us wanted--in fact, we tried desperately hard to make it work.  It wasn't until later that I realized all the pain she went through on a daily basis trying to keep it together.

[WuTanger100]

Do you feel confusion with how a beautiful, intelligent person, has low emotional intelligence, social impairments and insecure attachments patterns in relationships?

I really do but that is more narrowmindedness on my part. On the face of it, to the outside world, she appears like the perfect catch, I just find it hard to fathom there's a storm under the surface. There are times when she seems like the best person in the world and other times she's the complete antithesis of that. She doesn't act out, she didn't rage. It was always passive aggressive. Going quiet but denying anything was wrong. Unable to see her absolute questionable behaviour for what it was and always having some semi-plausible excuse.

[WuTanger100]

Ditto.  Word for word, the same thing my ex would say to me in moments of clarity.  I was looking through old texts last night--there were so many times she tried to tell me basically that she had BPD.  She probably wouldn't know the term for it, but she knew something was up.  She was telling me everything upfront--but I was arrogant and egotistical enough to believe that I knew her better than she did and there couldn't possibly something wrong with her.

That said, she was as powerless to keep from acting out the script as I was from keeping it from being acted out.  I don't think it was what either of us wanted--in fact, we tried desperately hard to make it work.  It wasn't until later that I realized all the pain she went through on a daily basis trying to keep it together.

Sounds like a very similar situation to me. I don't think she is inherently evil, I hope not. But as I've microanalysed everything there is no other conclusion that the things she did were extremely manipulative and she must have known they were wrong. Like cheating for instance.

[gameover]

'Good' and 'bad' is a little too simplistic in my opinion--it's a black/white perspective based on the assumption that her reality was the same as yours.  It wasn't--you projected a shared reality, when in reality her perception/experience of things is totally distorted from a NON perspective.  For instance, she knew you were gonna leave her, she knew you were already cheating on her--that was her reality and she was just doing what she needed to prevent her ego from being annihilated (you were her only point of reference).

I'm not saying that pwBPD get a free pass or you should excuse this type of behavior or allow it in your life.  By no means--but holding her to your standards is an exercise in futility.  The biggest mental block I faced in my recovery (and still face at odd hours) is integrating my ex into an entire entity apart from myself--the good, the bad, etc.  I wanted to love the good and hate the bad, etc. like they were two separate, distinct entities--but really that was just a way of trying to protect my ego instead of detaching it.

[Schermarhorn]

Ditto.  Word for word, the same thing my ex would say to me in moments of clarity.  I was looking through old texts last night--there were so many times she tried to tell me basically that she had BPD.  She probably wouldn't know the term for it, but she knew something was up.  She was telling me everything upfront--but I was arrogant and egotistical enough to believe that I knew her better than she did and there couldn't possibly something wrong with her.

That said, she was as powerless to keep from acting out the script as I was from keeping it from being acted out.  I don't think it was what either of us wanted--in fact, we tried desperately hard to make it work.  It wasn't until later that I realized all the pain she went through on a daily basis trying to keep it together.

Sounds like a very similar situation to me. I don't think she is inherently evil, I hope not. But as I've microanalysed everything there is no other conclusion that the things she did were extremely manipulative and she must have known they were wrong. Like cheating for instance.

They are crazy, not evil.

They don't process feelings anything like us.

[once removed]

i remember a moment where my ex was telling me about personality disorders. i cant remember her words but id swear she said it was suggested she was "a little bit borderline". she didnt secretly know she had BPD, of that im pretty confident. she did, however, display, at different times, different levels of self awareness with her struggle, and discuss it with me. someone mentioned emotional intelligence, and its very different than general intelligence, which is also very different from self awareness. a person with a mental illness can register extremely high with general intelligence, creativity, and even varying levels of self awareness. they will display great difficulty regulating their emotions.

people with all sorts of issues (of the rescuer variety most commonly, but personality disorders included) work in the medical field, write self help books, are therapists, doctors, etc. marsha linehan, developer of the leading treatment of BPD, dbt, self diagnosed herself with BPD.

unlikely your ex is researching psychology to teach herself how to better manipulate people. more likely she likes psychology

[WuTanger100]

unlikely your ex is researching psychology to teach herself how to better manipulate people. more likely she likes psychology

I think I associate mirroring with manipulation - which it is to some extent. However, I need to try and remember this is not motivated by malice but rather by emotional dysfunction.

When we first met I couldn't believe how similar we appeared with regards to specific dreams and futures to opinions and points of view.

[WuTanger100]

The biggest mental block I faced in my recovery (and still face at odd hours) is integrating my ex into an entire entity apart from myself--the good, the bad, etc.  I wanted to love the good and hate the bad, etc. like they were two separate, distinct entities--but really that was just a way of trying to protect my ego instead of detaching it.

I think that's a very valid point and it rings true for me just now too.

I'm having a hard time integrating the quiet, sweet, vulnerable girl in her PJs, snuggled up to me on the couch telling me she loves me whilst watching a DVD with the flirty, selfish girl who fails to see the problem in texting her ex-lovers and going out drinking until early in the morning with them while in a relationship and who distances herself with no warning or explanation.