Is it common that pwBPD cheat throughout your relationship

[Forteventur]

-----Yes it would. But acknowledgin that you had something together would cause her to feel upset that she no longer has it with you,  which is a loss. ANd loss is a juge trigger for them, so it may be a defense for her to "pretend" you didn't have much of anything together... .that is less painful to lose that acknowledging  she lost a deep relationship.  THey lie to us sometimes, and they lie to themselves about what they lost, and they have defense mechanisms which protect them for acknowledging the loss.

So she didn't necessarily have a backup when she was with you. ANd you don't want to be the back up now.  SOunds like from what you wrote, you are a trigger for her feelings now. ANd her not wanting to talk about things is emotional avoidance, as you wrote. It is just too painful for her.

Well, this is certain all possible knowing her, being primarily a waif.  Our last big fight, the day she broke up with me for the second time, I called her a pathological liar in anger.  This "label" really bothered her.  I wonder if somewhere deep down she knows there may be some truth in that "label"?  She did lie and deceive me ... .how much she did it throughout our relationship I don't really know with certainty.  I do have a lot of gut instincts throughout that were telling me she was lying.  She does have a problem with lying but not necessarily pathological.

I apologized for it many times afterwards, but even on the day we said goodbye months later it still bothered her.  It came up when I suggested we start over again.  Her reply was I don't think so in that "never again" tone of voice.  Then she brought up the "label" again but quickly shut herself down saying she didn't want to get into it again.

I believe she thinks I feel that everything she says to me is a lie, so why bother saying anything.  She has decided that I won't believe anything she says, which isn't necessarily true.  So given this she could have lied about the "new relationship" figuring what's one more lie since he already thinks I'm a liar.  

I never thought trust couldn't be rebuilt, all she needed to do was make an effort to help rebuild it but she never did.  I have to admit this is really got me wondering because a part of me wants to reconcile with her.

Perhaps I am just desperately reaching for straws that aren't there.

My ex called me a liar right after telling she didnt really cheat on me as she had said, despite wanting to, because I did not respect her and lied to her (I did, yes, but no cheating) - so everything I said to her after that was a lie. Thing is all I wanted to give her was all the affection I could provide, and I wish I had been better at that, I wish I could have made her happy.

Thats made me think that yes, the r/s is real to them and up to what point is she right/am I wrong? To what point is she really BPD or just a regular person and I'm the one who's mistaken?

I suggested her to look into BPD but regretted doing so, and I apologized to her because yeah, that's pretty disrespectful to someone too.

[Little oak]

My ex didn't cheat physically on me although she did choose to triangulate me with a male friend and also became very friendly with her ex husband whom she claimed raped her. This happened after she went ballistic at me for relationships I had prior to meeting her or even knowing her

[shatra]

Little oak wrote--

My ex didn't cheat physically on me although she did choose to triangulate me with a male friend

---Can u give details?  WHat is triangulating, if she wasn't dating the other person?

Lonely astro wrote---

I never thought I'd fall for her again after the train wreck before

----So you broke up 4 years ago? 

How long was the break up for?

Was there a triggering reason? 

What was the more recent trigger for the recent break up?

[hashtag_loyal]

hashtag wrote

There are many reasons why they do it, with fear of abandonment one of the most common.

----I have heard this. Does it mean that they fear one person will abandon them, so they have a back up person they cheat with just in case the other person leaves them?

Basically, yes.  I was once told they 'monkey branch' a lot.  Meaning they won't let go of one branch (you) until they firmly have a hand on another branch (your replacement).

They do fear one person abandoning them, and that one fear (either real or imagined) can certainly trigger defensive behavior, which could include cheating.

Yes to the "monkey branching", especially for those pwBPD that juggle multiple r/s. Their biggest fear is being abandoned by everyone (and therefore forced to finally confront their immense aloneness) so the more branches you grab onto, the greater the chance of always holding onto at least 1 branch.

[Little oak]

Triangulating is when the person portrays the victim,you as the persecutor and another person as a rescuer. I read up on it it's called the karpman drama triangle... .probably worth a new topic on its own... .have a read on wiki

[Lonely_Astro]

Lonely astro wrote---

I never thought I'd fall for her again after the train wreck before

----So you broke up 4 years ago? 

How long was the break up for?

Was there a triggering reason? 

What was the more recent trigger for the recent break up?

Yes, 4 years ago we started a r/s.  At that time neither of us knew she had BPD.  It was purely an emotional (we never slept together) r/s, but it was intense.  It lasted about 4 months or so.  I'm honestly not sure what the triggering reason was for her, but I was the other guy (unknown to me).  She had a bf (though she told me she had broken up with him when our r/s started) but in secret (to me that is, everyone else in her life knew she was still seeing Nick, I just didn't know that because everyone else didn't know about me) she was still seeing/sleeping with him.  We used to constantly argue over her not wanting to see me (have dinner, etc) and she was always unavailable.

The moment it all really fell apart was when she told me that she was "falling more and more in love with me" everyday.  Keep in mind that was a few months in and I was so enamored with her that I had rationalized the previous several weeks by accepting her explanations of her on/off ST with me as fact (she typically used the excuse that she was arguing with her mom/grandma as a reason to ignore me).  In that same conversation I asked her on a picnic, since it was a nice spring day.  She immediately went ST.  Of course, I didn't know what BPD was then or what was going on so I text her several times and called throughout that day with no response.  After several hours she sent me a text of her and a girl I didn't know in bikinis at a pool party.  Of course I was a bit taken aback by it, as it seemed so random.  She didn't reply to my response to that text.  It was a week or two later (of ST from her), she contacted me out of the blue and requested to meet her at a favorite spot of ours.  When I got there, I was totally unprepared for what was about to come from her.  She broke down almost immediately and started crying.  She proceeded to tell me the reason she had been avoiding me was because she had had a pregnancy scare.  Now, keep in mind, we had never been sexual with each other so you can imagine my response.  After that, everything changed and it was never the same.  I went LC with her then that drifted naturally to NC.  I was totally NC with her (sans work related things since we work together and even then it was as a last resort).

Just before NC happened, she had told me she knew something wasn't right with her and she found out she was BPD.  She told me she was going to 'get better', but I was so devastated by the betrayal that I walked away.  NC was there for 3 years.  We both moved on with our lives during that time.  She dated and married a guy, but the marriage only lasted for 6 months or so and I had heard she was separated and getting a divorce from him.  During the time of their courtship (which was roughly about the time I was on the fringes of her life, he comes in by my timeline), she seemed to 'go straight'.  After that, she was no longer involved in rumors and she just seemed more 'put together'.  Secretly I was jealous because I wondered what this guy had that I didn't, the magic formula so to speak.

Anyway, we were forced to ride together (alone) in a company car to a convention for work.  I dreaded it because I didn't know how it was going to go.  She actually openly (and what I felt was honestly) apologized for her behavior and treatment (and the hell she put me through - her words).  She told me how therapy had helped her and she was medicated.  After that trip, we started having conversations again (nonromantic, just friendly).  As time passed, we became closer but I still kept her at arms length.  We would talk about what was happening with her pending divorce and all that, of course, like normal people do.  I would talk about what was going on in my life and so on.  Then that evolved into romantic discussions.  We had several long, involved, and even complex discussions about fears and expectations of going down that path again.  I don't believe she willfully lied to me then, it just didn't play out that way in the end.

At the time, I was separated myself (one of the reasons I was cautious of starting a new r/s, which I was very frank with her about).  I simply didn't like the fact we would have to be a secret because that didn't fair so well for me the last time around plus it could complicate other matters.  But, logic went out the window with the candied hook.  After more long discussions, we ended up being romantic.  But, it was completely different than it was 3 years prior.  She would always text, call, go out with me, come over to my place (I couldn't go to hers because she lived with her parents and she was open that her mom would physically beat her or something if I came around because technically Jane was still married).  Things went fairly well up until February of this year and things started popping up that was odd for me, which I pointed out to her (as per our previous discussions she wanted me to ask questions when I had them).  During that same time, there was a friend of hers wedding happening in late June and she asked me if I would be her date.  I said of course I would, provided that we could (meaning if our divorces were final to prevent any issues - she was constantly worried about her estranged husband harming us if he found out as she claims he was violent).  Well, June rolled around and I couldn't go with her (I had found out a few weeks before that her divorce papers had been 'misfiled' and no divorce filings were on record.  Basically, she wasn't divorcing Mike like she told me was how I saw that, which led to a huge argument).  She became very distant after I missed my 'date' with her.  I found out in late July that she had been 'dating' another guy for that month because I had abandoned her (in her mind) because I didn't fulfill my promise to be her date and I was never going to fully be hers (even though at that point neither of us was officially divorced).  Typing that makes me realize how much of an idiot I've been.

Things were strained after that and I started to walk away then because one of my boundaries was her cheating on me.  She didn't see it as cheating because she hadn't slept with him (which, technically was what I said to her was that if I found out she had slept with someone during my time around her, I would leave), she found the loophole as it was.  Anyway, against my better judgement, I decided to stick around.  August and September were pretty decent months overall.  Jane told me that she felt so horrible about what had happened in July that she was going to start DBT to be better for herself and us.  Keep in mind she told me she had already been in DBT back when we started.  I asked her about that and she told me she thought it was DBT, but it wasn't and that she was going to find someone actually trained in DBT.  "Ok, fair enough," was my thought since DBT is highly specialized.

After a bit of heehawing about starting DBT (she said she was doing it late July or early August but didn't finally go until mid September), DBT seemed to make it all much worse.  At least for me it did.  She has completely reverted back to the way she was 4 years ago (although, as FOG lifts and I see things more clearly it seems that she's been playing me for a long time).  I think she's probably still going to DBT, but I'm not sure.  When October rolled around, she distanced herself from me tremendously.  Literally we would just argue all the time because I wanted to spend time with her (she would agree to dinner or whatever and then ghost me).  We fought for the first couple of weeks of October and I happened to be present when she was served with divorce papers (at work).  She completely unraveled it seems, so I think that was the trigger along with we had planned a weekend getaway together around the same time.  I think the walls fully closed in on her and she has had a 'break' so to speak.

I also believe that she doesn't want to be around me out of shame/guilt of seeing/sleeping with someone.  It's totally her MO to do that in times of crisis on her lovers.  I may have meant something at some point, but now I am nothing to her (though we are still LC, she gets mad because I am not talking to her even though she frequently doesn't respond to a text from me).  I feel that I am going to move fully NC with her soon, for my own sake.  I want some closure, which is the only reason I am still in contact with her at all but I don't think I'll get it.  A part of me wants confirmation that she's betrayed me so it would be easier for me to sever ties with her.  I don't know why I feel like I need the vindication, I just do.

The final straw for me was Friday.  She agreed to meet me so we could talk (she approached me about setting it up and then ST me that night).  I had to go to the office early Saturday morning so I couldn't help myself and I drove by her house, her car wasn't there.  It was just before dawn and I know she sleeps late on Saturdays.  Basically, in my mind, she spent the night with my replacement (and this is where anger/jealousy/a flood of other emotions come in).  I'll stop here for now.

Sorry for the super long book, but hopefully that will bring you up to speed.

[English Sid]

I'm certain mine cheated physically and emotionally with more of the triangulation aspect, first was with her best friends husband and I believe this was going on for a few months until we moved cities.

Once I realised this and started to learn about BPD, I started to make my exit plan.

The 2nd time was so obvious once I knew what signs to look for, by this time I was just relieved that the breakup would hopefully be less dramatic if she had someone else to occupy her thoughts.

[Raybo48]

I honestly believe they all cheat, whether it be emotional or physical.  I've been with two BPDfm and they both have been  in relationships with other men behind my back.  Anytime you hear "I think of him as my brother" or "we are just close friends" beware.  I'm not here to say that women can't have  males as friends, but in my humble opinion when it comes to the BPD mindset they do not draw the line and will cross it  whenever possible. I mean after all isn't this about lack of impulse control when it comes to BPD?  Isn't this about narcissistic supply--and the need to not be abandoned?

If you question them they will make you feel like you are the crazy one for even thinking they would do such a thing.  

[Lonely_Astro]

I honestly believe they all cheat, whether it be emotional or physical.  I've been with two BPDfm and they both have been  in relationships with other men behind my back.  Anytime you hear "I think of him as my brother" or "we are just close friends" beware.  I'm not here to say that women can't have  males as friends, but in my humble opinion when it comes to the BPD mindset they do not draw the line and will cross it  whenever possible. I mean after all isn't this about lack of impulse control when it comes to BPD?  Isn't this about narcissistic supply--and the need to not be abandoned?

If you question them they will make you feel like you are the crazy one for even thinking they would do such a thing.   

It's really strange when I reflect on the past few months and see how much mine was cheating in some way, whether it be emotionally or physically.  What I mean by that is I have suspected/confirmed her of being involved with me, Mike (her 'ex' husband), Nick (the guy she cheated on me with or I cheated on him with her or however one wants to look at that... .also she cheated on Mike with Nick as well - she claims prior to them being engaged/married but I honestly feel now it was during), Brian (the guy in July) and I suspect possibly another one in the course of just this year.  I think they were somehow veiled confessions.  For instance:

She would tell me about how Mike would call her derogatory names and how he's glad she lost their baby and then tell me about how he was trying to woo her back or mention to her that he wanted to sleep with her again since they were 'technically' married. 

Another time, I was having lunch with her in a park and a truck went by and she told me that I would be upset with who that was.  I was confused (I was on a heated rant about work at the moment) about what she meant and she said "that was Nick in that truck and he was looking hard over this way to see who I am with."  Which was even more odd because she had gotten a new car when her and Mike got married, so Nick shouldn't have ever known what she was driving (something I pointed out and she rebuffed it by minimizing it).  This was also a couple of months after I was looking at her phone (I was thinking of upgrading to what she had, so I was messing with it) and Nick called her.  That led to an argument and she had some totally false reason for him to be calling her (she had changed numbers when she started dating Mike, so there was no legitimate reason for Nick to have her number).  There was a very heated argument that ensued over the truck going by incident.  I never fully got over that, honestly.

She told me Brian would still text her (this was a couple of weeks after we agreed to move forward with the r/s) but that she didn't reply to him in hopes he would simply go away. 

The former lover that asked me to compare notes with him sent her a message saying 'hi' shortly after he had talked to me (I don't know his motive), but she felt the need to screenshot it to me.  I inquired to why he had her number and why his was saved in her phone as well... .once again she minimized it.

Really, on reflection, I think the only reason why I stuck it out as long as I did was for hope that it would get better (love) and for the sex.  It certainly wasn't because I trusted her (which explains my anxiety I would feel after sleeping with her).  I tried to respect her (and during the time, I did), but now I don't really because all the pieces line up that I was one (the primary one at some point) of several supply lines.  Thinking about that upsets me, knowing I so willingly stayed in the FOG.  Maybe I'm just angry, but right now, I'd certainly like to rip into her about the past few months.  But, what's the point?

[Raybo48]

I honestly believe they all cheat, whether it be emotional or physical.  I've been with two BPDfm and they both have been  in relationships with other men behind my back.  Anytime you hear "I think of him as my brother" or "we are just close friends" beware.  I'm not here to say that women can't have  males as friends, but in my humble opinion when it comes to the BPD mindset they do not draw the line and will cross it  whenever possible. I mean after all isn't this about lack of impulse control when it comes to BPD?  Isn't this about narcissistic supply--and the need to not be abandoned?

If you question them they will make you feel like you are the crazy one for even thinking they would do such a thing.  

It's really strange when I reflect on the past few months and see how much mine was cheating in some way, whether it be emotionally or physically.  What I mean by that is I have suspected/confirmed her of being involved with me, Mike (her 'ex' husband), Nick (the guy she cheated on me with or I cheated on him with her or however one wants to look at that... .also she cheated on Mike with Nick as well - she claims prior to them being engaged/married but I honestly feel now it was during), Brian (the guy in July) and I suspect possibly another one in the course of just this year.  I think they were somehow veiled confessions.  For instance:

She would tell me about how Mike would call her derogatory names and how he's glad she lost their baby and then tell me about how he was trying to woo her back or mention to her that he wanted to sleep with her again since they were 'technically' married.  

Another time, I was having lunch with her in a park and a truck went by and she told me that I would be upset with who that was.  I was confused (I was on a heated rant about work at the moment) about what she meant and she said "that was Nick in that truck and he was looking hard over this way to see who I am with."  Which was even more odd because she had gotten a new car when her and Mike got married, so Nick shouldn't have ever known what she was driving (something I pointed out and she rebuffed it by minimizing it).  This was also a couple of months after I was looking at her phone (I was thinking of upgrading to what she had, so I was messing with it) and Nick called her.  That led to an argument and she had some totally false reason for him to be calling her (she had changed numbers when she started dating Mike, so there was no legitimate reason for Nick to have her number).  There was a very heated argument that ensued over the truck going by incident.  I never fully got over that, honestly.

She told me Brian would still text her (this was a couple of weeks after we agreed to move forward with the r/s) but that she didn't reply to him in hopes he would simply go away.  

The former lover that asked me to compare notes with him sent her a message saying 'hi' shortly after he had talked to me (I don't know his motive), but she felt the need to screenshot it to me.  I inquired to why he had her number and why his was saved in her phone as well... .once again she minimized it.

Really, on reflection, I think the only reason why I stuck it out as long as I did was for hope that it would get better (love) and for the sex.  It certainly wasn't because I trusted her (which explains my anxiety I would feel after sleeping with her).  I tried to respect her (and during the time, I did), but now I don't really because all the pieces line up that I was one (the primary one at some point) of several supply lines.  Thinking about that upsets me, knowing I so willingly stayed in the FOG.  Maybe I'm just angry, but right now, I'd certainly like to rip into her about the past few months.  But, what's the point?

There is no point.  She won't see any of your points because you think logically and she is wired differently than you are.   I'm currently trying to end it slowly with a BPDfm who I was dumb enough to engage at my work place with.  She's currently involved with a guy I've known for 16 years who also works there, but claims they are just "close friends".  I can tell that he's absolutely not familiar with what a BPD is and he takes everything she says at face value and the worst part is she's driven a wedge between us and I'm reasonably certain she has him convinced I'm crazed.  He definitely doesn't know that she and I are involved. The sad thing is she still wants to keep me around despite the fact that I told her there was no reason for it.  Why? Because they need backups, they don't want to be abandoned, etc.  I hear you about the anxiety, mine has been off the charts lately because I know I'm not the only guy she's involved with sexually or emotionally.   As funny as it sounds it would have been far easier to have her tell me in the beginning that she just wanted to be friends with benefits rather than have me convinced I was the only guy in her life that she was being intimate with on several levels.  Honesty is something you rarely if ever get from them. They have gone their entire lives embellishing the truth or just flat out lying.

They are pathological liars and are so polished at it 85% of the people out there believe everything they say.  If you pay attention there are holes in most of their stories, but who in normal every day life pays attention to every detail to a story, its just maddening really.  The problem is if you call them out on anything they will never admit it and that's what ends up driving you crazy.   The hardest part I think is to walk away from the mess and not have the ability to tell anyone who will believe all of the chaos and drama.  It's all bottled up inside so it's a very long process to let go.

Funny side note: She told me today that she thinks I deliberately try and catch her in a lie because I'll ask about something again two days later to see if I get a different answer... .Um yeah, because I don't trust her as far as I can toss her.  

[C.Stein]

What really bothers me is how I choose to ignore all the signs, even the ones I saw clearly.

I wasn't sticking around for the sex, it had stopped.   I was sticking around because I had hope that she might step up and be the person I fell in love with after she had broken me with a month long deception (not an affair).  Instead she just let me drown in my pain and ran to another man.  That is what love means to her ... .abandon the person you love and go have an affair when your partner needs you the most.  

I feel sorry for the guy who she can quickly push into marriage because she needs some serious internal work before she is ever ready for a marriage, let alone a family.  Who knows, my replacement might be the "lucky" one.  Sigh ... .and I had wanted to be the "lucky" one.  At least I listened to my internal warning bells with regard to being pushed into a marriage.

[hashtag_loyal]

As funny as it sounds it would have been far easier to have her tell me in the beginning that she just wanted to be friends with benefits rather than have me convinced I was the only guy in her life that she was being intimate with on several levels.

But where would she get all the drama, pain, triangulation, self-loathing, sympathy from others, guilt, scapegoat, ego boost, fairy-tale fantasies, and narcissistic supply if she was just straight-up and honest with you? :D

[hashtag_loyal]

I feel sorry for the guy who she can quickly push into marriage because she needs some serious internal work before she is ever ready for a marriage, let alone a family.  Who knows, my replacement might be the "lucky" one.  Sigh ... .and I had wanted to be the "lucky" one.  At least I listened to my internal warning bells with regard to being pushed into a marriage.

It's hard to tell now, but trust me, you are the lucky one! She is out of your life and you have the power to ensure she never returns.

It might be a rough landing at first, but getting ejected from BPDland is the best thing for your health long-term.

[Lonely_Astro]

I honestly believe they all cheat, whether it be emotional or physical.  I've been with two BPDfm and they both have been  in relationships with other men behind my back.  Anytime you hear "I think of him as my brother" or "we are just close friends" beware.  I'm not here to say that women can't have  males as friends, but in my humble opinion when it comes to the BPD mindset they do not draw the line and will cross it  whenever possible. I mean after all isn't this about lack of impulse control when it comes to BPD?  Isn't this about narcissistic supply--and the need to not be abandoned?

If you question them they will make you feel like you are the crazy one for even thinking they would do such a thing.  

It's really strange when I reflect on the past few months and see how much mine was cheating in some way, whether it be emotionally or physically.  What I mean by that is I have suspected/confirmed her of being involved with me, Mike (her 'ex' husband), Nick (the guy she cheated on me with or I cheated on him with her or however one wants to look at that... .also she cheated on Mike with Nick as well - she claims prior to them being engaged/married but I honestly feel now it was during), Brian (the guy in July) and I suspect possibly another one in the course of just this year.  I think they were somehow veiled confessions.  For instance:

She would tell me about how Mike would call her derogatory names and how he's glad she lost their baby and then tell me about how he was trying to woo her back or mention to her that he wanted to sleep with her again since they were 'technically' married.  

Another time, I was having lunch with her in a park and a truck went by and she told me that I would be upset with who that was.  I was confused (I was on a heated rant about work at the moment) about what she meant and she said "that was Nick in that truck and he was looking hard over this way to see who I am with."  Which was even more odd because she had gotten a new car when her and Mike got married, so Nick shouldn't have ever known what she was driving (something I pointed out and she rebuffed it by minimizing it).  This was also a couple of months after I was looking at her phone (I was thinking of upgrading to what she had, so I was messing with it) and Nick called her.  That led to an argument and she had some totally false reason for him to be calling her (she had changed numbers when she started dating Mike, so there was no legitimate reason for Nick to have her number).  There was a very heated argument that ensued over the truck going by incident.  I never fully got over that, honestly.

She told me Brian would still text her (this was a couple of weeks after we agreed to move forward with the r/s) but that she didn't reply to him in hopes he would simply go away.  

The former lover that asked me to compare notes with him sent her a message saying 'hi' shortly after he had talked to me (I don't know his motive), but she felt the need to screenshot it to me.  I inquired to why he had her number and why his was saved in her phone as well... .once again she minimized it.

Really, on reflection, I think the only reason why I stuck it out as long as I did was for hope that it would get better (love) and for the sex.  It certainly wasn't because I trusted her (which explains my anxiety I would feel after sleeping with her).  I tried to respect her (and during the time, I did), but now I don't really because all the pieces line up that I was one (the primary one at some point) of several supply lines.  Thinking about that upsets me, knowing I so willingly stayed in the FOG.  Maybe I'm just angry, but right now, I'd certainly like to rip into her about the past few months.  But, what's the point?

There is no point.  She won't see any of your points because you think logically and she is wired differently than you are.   I'm currently trying to end it slowly with a BPDfm who I was dumb enough to engage at my work place with.  She's currently involved with a guy I've known for 16 years who also works there, but claims they are just "close friends".  I can tell that he's absolutely not familiar with what a BPD is and he takes everything she says at face value and the worst part is she's driven a wedge between us and I'm reasonably certain she has him convinced I'm crazed.  He definitely doesn't know that she and I are involved. The sad thing is she still wants to keep me around despite the fact that I told her there was no reason for it.  Why? Because they need backups, they don't want to be abandoned, etc.  I hear you about the anxiety, mine has been off the charts lately because I know I'm not the only guy she's involved with sexually or emotionally.   As funny as it sounds it would have been far easier to have her tell me in the beginning that she just wanted to be friends with benefits rather than have me convinced I was the only guy in her life that she was being intimate with on several levels.  Honesty is something you rarely if ever get from them. They have gone their entire lives embellishing the truth or just flat out lying.

They are pathological liars and are so polished at it 85% of the people out there believe everything they say.  If you pay attention there are holes in most of their stories, but who in normal every day life pays attention to every detail to a story, its just maddening really.  The problem is if you call them out on anything they will never admit it and that's what ends up driving you crazy.   The hardest part I think is to walk away from the mess and not have the ability to tell anyone who will believe all of the chaos and drama.  It's all bottled up inside so it's a very long process to let go.

Funny side note: She told me today that she thinks I deliberately try and catch her in a lie because I'll ask about something again two days later to see if I get a different answer... .Um yeah, because I don't trust her as far as I can toss her.  

The anxiety was the worse and she could tell I was having it.  I could never openly admit to her (that would've guaranteed an argument for sure) why I had the anxiety.  She always felt like I was persecuting her for her past if I brought up any issues of infidelity, even though we had discussed it at length when I agreed to start seeing her romantically.  Really, she was so different in the beginning.  I'm 99% certain that how she was then was a mask to snare me back into feeding her supply.  Things were different then, she was much closer to normal than she is today. 

Sex, for us, increased in frequency until it stopped around July (when she started seeing Brian).  She claims that she stopped having sex with me 'out of respect' (she still swears she never slept with him, but I highly doubt that), which is why she emotionally pulled away too.  In reality, she pushed me away because she found fresh supply and I think only 'came back' because he said/did something that made her mad.  He has no idea of BPD and I know him too, theres no way he'd put up with her crap very long. 

I say the best time that our sex life experienced was right before the big push away.  It was literally a week long sexcapade.  Then, she was gone.  As strange as it sounds, Aunt Flo showed up (she would never be sexual when the cramps started and it all had to be over before she would resume) and we never recovered after that.  At first, I didn't push the subject until we were in the midst of an argument and I brought it up.  I told her that it was a big deal to me that she didn't want to be intimate because of what had happened with Brian.  The response I got was "you can either let that go or not.  It's your call."  So let me get this right... .you cheat on me for a month and not two months later, you're telling me that I need to just let it go because you're behaving the exact same way you did when you were cheating on me then?  Got it.  And yes, that was my response.  Needless to say, blow up ensued.

Basically, I'm a good two months out of our r/s and am just now accepting that it's over.  I'm not sure why I wanted it to work out, I think I was holding onto the hope that DBT would be the magic bullet that fixed it all and I would be able to have my cake and eat it too.  DBT made things much much worse, or at least she's using it as an excuse.  I think she's lied a lot about that, to.  One moment she'll tell me that her therapist has told her that Jane and I don't need to be together because we're bad for each other.  A few days later she told me that she has written about how much I mean to her (etc etc) in her journal and the therapist has told her I need to read the entries.  So which is it?  I'm bad for her or I'm good for her?  It was confusing.

The whole thing has really taken me for more of a whirlwind than I had expected.  I didn't realize how enmeshed I have become with her during this past year.  In retrospect, I should've left at the first whiff of something not being right and I certainly should've told her to go pound sand when she pulled that stunt in July.

[Notsurewhattothinkofthis]

What really bothers me is how I choose to ignore all the signs, even the ones I saw clearly.

I wasn't sticking around for the sex, it had stopped.   I was sticking around because I had hope that she might step up and be the person I fell in love with after she had broken me with a month long deception (not an affair).  Instead she just let me drown in my pain and ran to another man.  That is what love means to her ... .abandon the person you love and go have an affair when your partner needs you the most.  

I feel sorry for the guy who she can quickly push into marriage because she needs some serious internal work before she is ever ready for a marriage, let alone a family.  Who knows, my replacement might be the "lucky" one.  Sigh ... .and I had wanted to be the "lucky" one.  At least I listened to my internal warning bells with regard to being pushed into a marriage.

C.Stein,

This is exactly what has happened to me in my relationship with her. I feel so betrayed. After how many times she told me that she loved me and she was glad she was with me. It's going to take a very long time to believe a girl loves me. Or I will be very hesitant.  It seems that they can leave you and be with some other guy 2-3 weeks later.  This has open a a whole new world to me for sure.

[Hope12345]

What really bothers me is how I choose to ignore all the signs, even the ones I saw clearly.

I think most of us do until we are slapped in the face with indisputable evidence.  It is almost sad to read post from those on this site who have not yet caught their spouse in an affair, talking of how it does not occur with all BPDs because, as far as they know, it has not occurred in theirs.  They describe the same signs and red flags some of us now know all too well, yet chalk them up to something else.  People have a natural tendency to believe their spouse is not capable of doing such a thing.  They forget that if it can happen in normal marriages, odds are it is happening far more frequently in marriages where personality disorders exist.  Funny how our spouses can rage, cut themselves, and even call police on us... .but we can continue to tell ourselves our BPD spouse is not cheating on us... .they would not do that.

[C.Stein]

You know, it's not the first time (or second, or third, or fourth) that I have been cheated on.  You would think by now I would be well versed in the signs.   I really wanted to believe the best in this woman and she let me down in a BIG way.   I thought she was better than this, what a huge disappointment.

[Notsurewhattothinkofthis]

You know, it's not the first time (or second, or third, or fourth) that I have been cheated on.  You would think by now I would be well versed in the signs.   I really wanted to believe the best in this woman and she let me down in a BIG way.   I thought she was better than this, what a huge disappointment.

That how I feel. However, you have to look at this in the long run we are better off. Eventually you would be in this same situation in 4... .5 or 10 years and possible with kids with her. Then, you would be deeper into this. We are hurting right now, but really... .we were let go easy. Some other guy won't be as lucky as us. I've read some guys here that the ex call the police on them or they have been charged and whoever know what else. So yeah, I feel lucky to a degree.

[Wu-tang]

When I first met my ex the first thing she ever told me is how she cheated on her fiancee who she had been with for 5.5 years with a married man and had been doing it behind his back for a year.  She qualified that by saying how her fiancee had been cold and hadn't fulfilled her needs but she felt guilty and would never cheat again.

But she always had these satellite guys she admitted to sleeping with in the past - she hated to say she had been seeing them but they were ex-sexual partners and they were  always texting her and she couldn't see why I was annoyed and paranoid that she thought it was acceptable to keep in contact with them.  She met for lunch dates with guys when she was in a different city on work but, now in my opinion, always tried to over justify her actions and the things they text her. These guys were always far too friendly and my guy went off each time.  She eventually did admit to me that she cheated on me with a guy from her work (who was one of the satellites I had a problem with).  This was after her telling me that she didn't see him that way any more.

She craved male attention and I told her once and she became infuriated, probably because she knew it was true and I had touched a nerve.  On a 2 week all-inclusive holiday for couples the DJ took a shine to her and I told her to watch out for him as he was hitting on her.  Towards the end of the holiday we had had a massive fight but partially made up.  She had been at the pool and I had gone back to the room.  She text me saying she was going to have a drink at the bar to celebrate it being a year of us buying our flats.  When I said I'd come back and join her she told me not to bother as she would be back at the room soon.  My gut told me something was wrong and so I went back to the pool and there she was, changed seat in the corner with the DJ having a drink with him.  On the last night  I caught her in the bathroom Facebooking the DJ who I later found out asked her back to his room for a drink.  I suspect the only reason she didn't go was because I was in the room as well and things were already on tenterhooks with us.

Looking back on it now, she only admitted to cheating once but there are tens of times where I now realise there is a massive possibility she slept with someone.

[hashtag_loyal]

What really bothers me is how I choose to ignore all the signs, even the ones I saw clearly.

I think most of us do until we are slapped in the face with indisputable evidence.  It is almost sad to read post from those on this site who have not yet caught their spouse in an affair, talking of how it does not occur with all BPDs because, as far as they know, it has not occurred in theirs.  They describe the same signs and red flags some of us now know all too well, yet chalk them up to something else.  People have a natural tendency to believe their spouse is not capable of doing such a thing.  They forget that if it can happen in normal marriages, odds are it is happening far more frequently in marriages where personality disorders exist.  Funny how our spouses can rage, cut themselves, and even call police on us... .but we can continue to tell ourselves our BPD spouse is not cheating on us... .they would not do that.

People naturally choose to believe what they want to believe. That's one reason why it is so hard to treat BPD. For instance:

Nons: "My SO could never cheat! Can't you see how he/she is so in love with me?"

pwBPD: "I may have cheated on every boyfriend I've ever had, but this time is different. He might be "the one!" I'm so in love with him I would never, ever cheat on him!"

(or after cheating on him) "Well, he was probably going to leave me anyway, so this is really his fault."

[hashtag_loyal]

She craved male attention and I told her once and she became infuriated, probably because she knew it was true and I had touched a nerve.

Deep down, they know.

Looking back on it now, she only admitted to cheating once but there are tens of times where I now realise there is a massive possibility she slept with someone.

Ohhhhh... .yes! "Massive possibility" is certainly an understatement.

[Notsurewhattothinkofthis]

When I first met my ex the first thing she ever told me is how she cheated on her fiancee who she had been with for 5.5 years with a married man and had been doing it behind his back for a year.  She qualified that by saying how her fiancee had been cold and hadn't fulfilled her needs but she felt guilty and would never cheat again.

But she always had these satellite guys she admitted to sleeping with in the past - she hated to say she had been seeing them but they were ex-sexual partners and they were  always texting her and she couldn't see why I was annoyed and paranoid that she thought it was acceptable to keep in contact with them.  She met for lunch dates with guys when she was in a different city on work but, now in my opinion, always tried to over justify her actions and the things they text her. These guys were always far too friendly and my guy went off each time.  She eventually did admit to me that she cheated on me with a guy from her work (who was one of the satellites I had a problem with).  This was after her telling me that she didn't see him that way any more.

She craved male attention and I told her once and she became infuriated, probably because she knew it was true and I had touched a nerve.  On a 2 week all-inclusive holiday for couples the DJ took a shine to her and I told her to watch out for him as he was hitting on her.  Towards the end of the holiday we had had a massive fight but partially made up.  She had been at the pool and I had gone back to the room.  She text me saying she was going to have a drink at the bar to celebrate it being a year of us buying our flats.  When I said I'd come back and join her she told me not to bother as she would be back at the room soon.  My gut told me something was wrong and so I went back to the pool and there she was, changed seat in the corner with the DJ having a drink with him.  On the last night  I caught her in the bathroom Facebooking the DJ who I later found out asked her back to his room for a drink.  I suspect the only reason she didn't go was because I was in the room as well and things were already on tenterhooks with us.

Looking back on it now, she only admitted to cheating once but there are tens of times where I now realise there is a massive possibility she slept with someone.

I've so been there. Your situation sounds exactly like mine really. That is why I dumped her. I could not trust her at all. Every time she went out with her girlfriends (supposedly) my mind would start to wonder. I've been kicked out of bars because of her. She used to flirt with guys and then they would not leave her alone. I had to get rid of them nicely and if they would not leave I had to be violent towards these people. I felt disrespected by her and them. To a degree I don't blame these guys, she was giving them the "green light" so they thought they could get some.

Holidays was the same. There were times she wanted to stay at the bar after us arguing. She would not make it to our room until 2am or 3am.  Who knows what happened then.

Thinking back... she loved this. She felt wanted and attractive because there were guys fighting for her. It is really messed up. The thing is that her Self-steam was so low and she always said she was fat which she wasn't at all. She slept with all these guys and cheated all the time to "Prove" to herself that she is good looking and men want her. Really sad ! Believe me she will be contacting me in 3-4 months. I have already blocked her from everything.

[C.Stein]

My ex also craved attention from males.  I told her I didn't really care how she dressed but I asked her to consider what her real motives were when "she dressed to kill".   Honestly, what is the reason to dress like that if not to advertise availability and to get men to strip you naked with their eyes?   Girls?

I thought she was beautiful in a t-shirt and jeans with no make-up, and I told her that.  I also thought she was beautiful when she "dressed to kill" for me, but I didn't need her to do that in order for me to be attracted to her or think she was beautiful.

[Mutt]

The topic of discussion has reached it's post limit and is now locked. You are welcome with starting a new or similar topic of discussion. Thanks.