Is your love conditional? (Christian)

[Butterflygirl]

Unconditional love is between me and God. I love him even if he lets bad things happen, and he lovea me despite all my shortcomings. All other relationships in my life need to be reciprocal [give and take].

When my son is mean to me I do not love him in that moment. For me to love someone they have to be pulling their weight in the relationship, they have  to be honest, they have to be kind, etc. etc. In other words, there are conditions for my love and loyalty.

I may stand by my son, but my feelings of  love are not unconditional. He needs to earn them in my opinion. They ebb and flow according to what he puts into  the relationship. Cause and effect. Push and pull. What goes around comes around. Maybe this is a radical idea and I am not being a good mother, but this is how I feel after years in 12-step programs. Unconditional love has always made me vulnerable to selfish people including my son.

So if your love is unconditional, I admire and respect you. But at this point in my life I want something back in order to love my son. IMO.

Butterflygirl

Mod note:Split from Guilt again

Reason: Different topic from OP

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=285848.0

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[AVR1962]

So if your love is unconditional, I admire and respect you. But at this point in my life I want something back in order to love my son. IMO.

Butterflygirl

I agree, at some point our relationships need to go both ways and for us to keep giving regardless is not healthy for anyone. We can love them, sure but to keep over-looking all their hurtful acts towards us is not what unconditional love is about. We can love our children enough to draw boundary lines and we can love our children enough to let them know that they messed up (in a supporting way). I actually was thinking of this just today... .my ex is either BPD or narcissistic, has been very powerful in manipulating the people in his life, including his children. My BPD daughter married her second husband while still legally married to her first husband. I could not support it and did not attend but my ex was right there to support my daughter. I just do not feel we have to support this type of behavior. Basically the family friend who did the ceremony could not put his name on the marriage licence and they later made it legal at the justice of the peace.

[mimi99]

I love my daughter unconditionally, but I must admit that I really don't like her at all. I can objectively see that she has some good qualities. She is smart, funny and creative. However, she has not done anything to encourage me to have positive feelings toward her. She treated us horribly when she lived at home, and tells everyone that my husband and I are abusive. She berated her own small daughter constantly, eventually abandoning her. She is only nice to people that are not close to her and manipulates others to get what she wants. Not a very likeable person. I have distanced myself for my (and gd) sanity and find that constant worrying was just making me sick. She is an adult and makes her own choices. She knows what is expected of her to be able to have a relationship with her father and I and she chooses to do the opposite.

Unconditional love is not a thing that requires taking care of an adult who refuses to take care of themselves. It does not involve paying for things for someone who always has cigarettes and redbulls and then cries poverty when it comes to paying child support. It does not mean I should tolerate being raged at for some imagined slight. It means that I love her and pray for her and hope against hope that someday she will get better. I try to be kind when I see her, but if she is not kind to me I leave. At what point do we let go and accept that things will never be "normal" and stop trying to see them as such? I am not willing to spend the rest of my life walking on eggshells around someone who knows what needs to be done to get better.

[esmaine]

Butterfly girl,  I am sorry I can not relate to what you are saying about your relationship with god. My children come  way before religion  and my love for all my children will always be unconditional, that doesnt mean I have to agree with all their choices in life but I will never stop loving them, my love doesnt have conditions attached to it.

[AVR1962]

I love my daughter unconditionally, but I must admit that I really don't like her at all. I can objectively see that she has some good qualities. She is smart, funny and creative. However, she has not done anything to encourage me to have positive feelings toward her. She treated us horribly when she lived at home, and tells everyone that my husband and I are abusive. She berated her own small daughter constantly, eventually abandoning her. She is only nice to people that are not close to her and manipulates others to get what she wants. Not a very likeable person. I have distanced myself for my (and gd) sanity and find that constant worrying was just making me sick. She is an adult and makes her own choices. She knows what is expected of her to be able to have a relationship with her father and I and she chooses to do the opposite.

Unconditional love is not a thing that requires taking care of an adult who refuses to take care of themselves. It does not involve paying for things for someone who always has cigarettes and redbulls and then cries poverty when it comes to paying child support. It does not mean I should tolerate being raged at for some imagined slight. It means that I love her and pray for her and hope against hope that someday she will get better. I try to be kind when I see her, but if she is not kind to me I leave. At what point do we let go and accept that things will never be "normal" and stop trying to see them as such? I am not willing to spend the rest of my life walking on eggshells around someone who knows what needs to be done to get better.

Been thru the very same and like you, I have gotten to a point of no more, done. Tired of the lies and manipulation, tired of being played against this person and that. My daughter thinks she is a good mom and makes announcements of baking cookies and doing things with her kids, hum? Not from what I have witnessed. She too favors one child and then screams and puts down the other two, it is sad.

[Butterflygirl]

Butterfly girl,  . . . My children come  way before religion  and my love for all my children will always be unconditional, that doesnt mean I have to agree with all their choices in life but I will never stop loving them, my love doesnt have conditions attached to it.

I admire you. My son would love to have you for his mother. This is what he wants from me. He wants to do anything and say anything and call me anytime and hit me and on and on and still love him. I can't anymore. I just can't love someone who abuses and takes advantage of me. But I will stand by him. My feelings are crushed, but not my loyalty to him.

Butterflygirl

[Butterflygirl]

I just posted about unconditional love. I was honest and now as I read the response to my other post I am embarrassed. All my life I have been told that mothers love their children unconditionally. My mother did not. I don't. So I can't help think what is wrong with me. I feel shamed and don't know what to do.

My son also tells me I should love him unconditionally but when I do he diminishes me and takes advantage. Plus all this is backward. I would prefer to love him unconditionally and set boundaries with his behavior. Instead I stand up to him but I don't love him anymore. I used to love him. I often think I was not meant to be a mother. That I cannot love because I was never loved. And yet I love my daughter who was kind and loving before she died.

I guess these feelings will pass but I wish I could go to a guru and ask for a definitive answer. While many mothers love their children unconditionally, are they supposed to or do they just have a gift for loving that I don't have. Is there something wrong with me?

[Eyeamme]

Butterfly Girl. Don't be embarrassed! I don't believe in unconditional love. I think that love for my children is certainly conditional on the one criteria that they don't TRY to hurt me. I haven't seen that from my 34yo old daughter. She actively TRIES to hurt me. Therefore, right now I do not love or like her.

[Butterflygirl]

Anonymous . . . Unconditional love is just something people tell themselves. I do not love my adult children unconditionally. Please don't feel embarrassed. I totally agree with you

.

Thank you so much for this support. I am so fragile emotionally. When I am embarrassed that triggers my toxic shame and stuff left over from my childhood which was horrific. My mother did not love me and told me so. I was asked not to go to her funeral by my sister. With my son I keep my feelings  to myself. I am not cruel.  I pretend a lot because he has enough on his plate. Plus he is addicted to me and rejection feeds relationship addictions. Thanks again everyone.

Butterflygirl

Mod note: Please do not alter fonts colors (outside of specified use) or font sizes. Thanks.

[esmaine]

Butterfly Girl Do not feel down on yourself, we are all coping the best way we can , there is no right or wrong way, what works for some wont work for others.   

[mimi99]

Butterflygirl, I feel so sad to hear you express shame and pain relating to your relationships with your parents and your son. It is very difficult to love someone like our children. I often feel guilty for not loving my daughter the way others think I should. I have had people tell me all kinds of things that they think will "fix" things for us. It only feeds my frustration and makes me feel like I haven't done things properly or tried enough. Please forgive yourself for you feelings. You are allowed to feel the way you feel, and your own past colors that, I'm sure. You are not cruel and you have said you will stand by your son. That is more than many do for their children that they profess to love. You are learning to love yourself--that is so important! This is a place we can be open and honest about ourselves and our families without fear of being shamed or ridiculed, and hopefully find some healing in the process.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[AVR1962]

I just posted about unconditional love. I was honest and now as I read the response to my other post I am embarrassed. All my life I have been told that mothers love their children unconditionally. My mother did not. I don't. So I can't help think what is wrong with me. I feel shamed and don't know what to do.

My son also tells me I should love him unconditionally but when I do he diminishes me and takes advantage. Plus all this is backward. I would prefer to love him unconditionally and set boundaries with his behavior. Instead I stand up to him but I don't love him anymore. I used to love him. I often think I was not meant to be a mother. That I cannot love because I was never loved. And yet I love my daughter who was kind and loving before she died.

I guess these feelings will pass but I wish I could go to a guru and ask for a definitive answer. While many mothers love their children unconditionally, are they supposed to or do they just have a gift for loving that I don't have. Is there something wrong with me?

Don't feel embarrassed. I think we do love our children unconditionally. Our children mean a great deal to us, we make sacrifices for them, we many times set aside our own personal needs to help our children, we still love them and want them to be part of our lives despite the lies and name calling. We have compassion for them and what they are dealing with or none of us would be here. What we are realizing though is that continuing to be emotionally involved in our loved-ones lives is not always healthy for us. When we have gotten to a point where time and time again we have realized we have manipulated, lied to and dragged thru the mud and played one person against other we finally see the pattern and it occurs to us at some point that we can't get involved if we are going to save our own sanity. That doesn't mean we don't love them, we do but we no longer want the hurt in our lives so we place boundaries for them and ourselves.

ButterFlyGirl, I have a question for you based on your statement [That I cannot love because I was never loved. And yet I love my daughter who was kind and loving before she died.] You say you were never loved. Were you by chance the scapegoat in your family of origin? It is not particularly uncommon for a grown person to say they did not feel loved by their parents, especially those who were the family scapegoat. You said you loved your daughter that passed, sorry for your loss. Could the loss of this child be part of what the family is dealing with? Is there guilt from you or your son, something unsaid that has not been dealt with? Could he feel that he could never measure up to his sister?

I get the feeling from your post that you feel like you have failed as a mom and you want to know what is wrong with you. Nothing is wrong with you. You have been thru alot, you have been hurt which is a normal feeling. You do love your children or you would not be here. Don't put yourself on a guilt trip. Have some true compassion for yourself. If you feel your parents did not love you, that is not your fault, that was theirs.

Lady, I was the family scapegoat, long story. My mother was narcissistic and we had to please her. We hear that alot right but it is severe when your own parent tells other family that she will disown you if you do marry the man she disapproves of. That is my choice! When I was 34 she actually told me that she never loved me like she did my sister, said she didn't like my big eyes... .that they reminded her of my dad's side of the family and she didn't like them, she told me that she hated it when my dd would spend time with me and she felt he favored me over her. Can you imagine hearing those words? Who had the problem here? I was raised believing I was a bad person, that I deserved all the bad things in my life, that I liked chaos. 4 years of counseling helped get me out of that thinking. I didn't understand why I was always faulted but I do now. So ask yourself, did I do this to my child? Or was it me (you) that was targetted as a child? Love yourself lady, find that good that is in you.

[Butterflygirl]

Butterflygirl, I have a question for you based on your statement [That I cannot love because I was never loved. You say you were never loved. Were you by chance the scapegoat in your family of origin?

You are very perceptive. I was indeed the family scapegoat. According to my mother she could not love me because I reminded her of her abusive mother. She would say one day I was just like her mom and then the next day she would say how awful her mom was. She said she tried to love her mom and tried to love me but she couldn't.

It is not particularly uncommon for a grown person to say they did not feel loved by their parents, especially those who were the family scapegoat.

I was chosen to be the scapegoat because I was very outspoken about how dysfunctional our family was. I also got in trouble at school standing up to the bullies and my mom hated that.

You said you loved your daughter that passed, sorry for your loss. Could the loss of this child be part of what the family is dealing with? Is there guilt from you or your son, something unsaid that has not been dealt with? Could he feel that he could never measure up to his sister?

You are right. My daughter was my mother's favorite and he felt abandoned by me and her. When he feels unloved he gets angry.

Wow you have really got me thinking.

By the way, when I was 56 years old someone fell in love with me. It was worth waiting for.

As for forgiving my self. That is off and on. I will try to keep it on.

[Rapt Reader]

Everything is good. :-)

I labeled this thread as "Christian" and I'm posting the guidelines concerning religious discussion here for educational purposes and future consideration when posting.

Carry on!

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[Skip]

I guess these feelings will pass but I wish I could go to a guru and ask for a definitive answer. While many mothers love their children unconditionally, are they supposed to or do they just have a gift for loving that I don't have. Is there something wrong with me?

As this is a Christian discussion, doesn't the Bible tell us to love our children as God loves his children. Is he the role model?

And the Bible also speaks to a child honoring their parents.

Instilling this in your family takes time - years.

Is there a religious foundation to your family (husband, wife, parents, children). Is there work to be done?

[AVR1962]

Butterflygirl, I have a question for you based on your statement [That I cannot love because I was never loved. You say you were never loved. Were you by chance the scapegoat in your family of origin?

You are very perceptive. I was indeed the family scapegoat. According to my mother she could not love me because I reminded her of her abusive mother. She would say one day I was just like her mom and then the next day she would say how awful her mom was. She said she tried to love her mom and tried to love me but she couldn't.

It is not particularly uncommon for a grown person to say they did not feel loved by their parents, especially those who were the family scapegoat.

I was chosen to be the scapegoat because I was very outspoken about how dysfunctional our family was. I also got in trouble at school standing up to the bullies and my mom hated that.

You said you loved your daughter that passed, sorry for your loss. Could the loss of this child be part of what the family is dealing with? Is there guilt from you or your son, something unsaid that has not been dealt with? Could he feel that he could never measure up to his sister?

You are right. My daughter was my mother's favorite and he felt abandoned by me and her. When he feels unloved he gets angry.

Wow you have really got me thinking.

By the way, when I was 56 years old someone fell in love with me. It was worth waiting for.

As for forgiving my self. That is off and on. I will try to keep it on.

Namaste

Butterflygirl

Big hugs to you! I am sorry for what you endured as a child. We are trained from small to let others mistreat us and we don't stop trying in relationships that we should turn our backs to. We feel guilty for giving up as we think if we do we are being just like the parent(s) who rejected us. So good to hear your progress and you have taken ahold of your life and you found yourself along the way.

A good point that my counselor shared with me and I will share with you, is that the narcissistic parent is not aware that they have turned one child into the scapegoat and if I try to see life from my own mother's perspective I feel my counselor was correct. I made a choice to forgive my mother and by doing so it freed me in a way. I did not run back wanting a relationship but I forgave her for hurting me, something I knew she could not see or understand as I know she felt justified. I know it might sound very strange but I was able to be in peace when I did.

[thefixermom]

I love unconditionally.  Love isn't to be equated with giving things in my book.  I even love my husband unconditionally, .  Over the years it has occurred to me that marriages are so selfish.  We love "if" and it becomes about controlling another or keeping track and before you  know it, people are hiding secrets because their truths are not accepted and love is withdrawn.  I realized that if I wanted to be my husband's true best friend, I needed to demonstrate my full acceptance of who he is and be my honest self in front of him, too.  There were some bumps in the process but he is liking it a lot now and we are very trusting and close as a result.  I love my daughter no matter what.  There is nothing she can do that would harm the love I have for her. And God's love and grace are immeasurable to me.  Not to be confused with religion. I am not religious at all.  God is not about the laws, rituals, guilt or shame.  God is love and grace.  As humans we will fail regularly but our essence remains the same and I hope to be reminded of that regularly.  I would still kill someone in self defense... .but I would love and forgive them in the process. I would also love and forgive them for killing me.  This worldly life is but a pit stop to me. I believe we will have far greater understanding in the next life.  

[Hopeful_Mom]

I appreciate your honesty. Don't ever be ashamed of shortcomings, because we ALL fall short. For me, this is a reminder of my great need for Christ.