i work with my BPD ex and every day is painful

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I was just introduced to BPD by my new therapist last week. I recently was dumped by a girl who my therapist believes has BPD. I never heard of BPD until last week during my therapy session when my therapist said she has all the signs of Bpd. She and I had a great relationship for five months or so and one day she left some of her stuff in my place and that made me feel good. Then over the next two weeks she was really quiet with me didn't make a lot of contact with me and when I pressed her on it she said she needed to take time to herself and couldn't  be my girlfriend. She said she had to work on herself so relationships moving forward would be more meaningful. She is in therapy but I don't k ow if she's been diagnosed or what she's working on. She just said she wished she could shut something off in her head and be with me but she can't.

That was about five weeks ago. We kept communicating often on during that time but over the last week we haven't talked at all which is been very tough. We used to talk to each other  all the time share intimate things and have what I thought was a great relationship. Now she wants nothing to do with me  it's very hard for me to take.

Making things even harder is we work together and I have to see her at work from time to time. We don't talk but just seeing her from a distance is really hard for me. And I believe that she's probably with somebody else right now even though she said she needed time to yourself.

The pain I've been feeling has een substantial as I miss having her in my life but I know she has some issues she's working with and I just don't know how to do it each day seeing her at work and not being anything close to what we once were.

The work thing is a real pain in my heart  and I can't leave my job. Has anyone else dealt with this a BPD relationship that's over and I work with them?

Thanks for listening.

[Anez]

I was just introduced to BPD by my new therapist last week. I recently was dumped by a girl who my therapist believes has BPD. I never heard of BPD until last week during my therapy session when my therapist said she has all the signs of Bpd. She and I had a great relationship for five months or so and one day she left some of her stuff in my place and that made me feel good. Then over the next two weeks she was really quiet with me didn't make a lot of contact with me and when I pressed her on it she said she needed to take time to herself and couldn't  be my girlfriend. She said she had to work on herself so relationships moving forward would be more meaningful. She is in therapy but I don't k ow if she's been diagnosed or what she's working on. She just said she wished she could shut something off in her head and be with me but she can't.

That was about five weeks ago. We kept communicating often on during that time but over the last week we haven't talked at all which is been very tough. We used to talk to each other  all the time share intimate things and have what I thought was a great relationship. Now she wants nothing to do with me  it's very hard for me to take.

Making things even harder is we work together and I have to see her at work from time to time. We don't talk but just seeing her from a distance is really hard for me. And I believe that she's probably with somebody else right now even though she said she needed time to yourself.

The pain I've been feeling has een substantial as I miss having her in my life but I know she has some issues she's working with and I just don't know how to do it each day seeing her at work and not being anything close to what we once were.

The work thing is a real pain in my heart  and I can't leave my job. Has anyone else dealt with this a BPD relationship that's over and I work with them?

Thanks for listening.

[Infern0]

Honestly and this probably isn't what you want to hear but I was given the "I need to work on myself" line and found out she almost instantly entered a new relationship and its a story often heard on here.

In my opinion you should look at options to get a new job, at the very least take some leave.

[Anez]

Yup I'm pretty sure she is seeing someone else, which makes this even harder. My therapist thinks she has a thing for taken men (I was married when we first met a year ago but since divorced) and she's prob with another one because then she doesn't have to worry about things getting serious.

She's 25, has a 3-year-old daughter and likely runs from every relationship that gets too serious but man it hurts.

I have a tough time just focusing on a all the good and hot times and not thinking about how she just left me and then acted at work like nothing has happened.

I'm just learning of BPD and man is it hard.

[Infern0]

Yup I'm pretty sure she is seeing someone else, which makes this even harder. My therapist thinks she has a thing for taken men (I was married when we first met a year ago but since divorced) and she's prob with another one because then she doesn't have to worry about things getting serious.

She's 25, has a 3-year-old daughter and likely runs from every relationship that gets too serious but man it hurts.

I have a tough time just focusing on a all the good and hot times and not thinking about how she just left me and then acted at work like nothing has happened.

I'm just learning of BPD and man is it hard.

It is hard.

She may not be seeing someone but they tend to use "I need to work on myself as kind of an excise to end things because to be honest you can't really argue with that.

But look man I'm just telling you from my experience this happened to me in may last year and since then I have been triangulated, sucked back in, lead on, used, lied to etc and all its done is prolonged my pain.

If id walked away at the stage you are currently at like EVERYONE told me to, I'd be recovered from it by now. But like a fool I stayed in it and as a result I've gone through so much more pain you wouldn't believe.

Do yourself a favour and learn from my mistake

[Anez]

Thank you for your honesty, infern0. I will heed your advice.

[Lonely_Astro]

Yep.  I work with my pwBPD.  Have done so for 4 years now.  It's a super long story that I've wrote about many times on how we came to be 4 years ago, had a stellar (but short lived r/s), went NC (besides work related things) for 3 years, got together again, had a r/s for a year and am now LC and going to be NC in the future again.

Does it get easier?  Yes.  Right after our r/s ended 4 years ago, I was devastated.  Seeing her was very hard in the beginning.  I was mourning the death of this great girl and I was forced to see her doppelgänger almost every single day.  It was super tough.  I went into therapy and over time the pain eased.  It wasn't easy for me seeing her move on, either.  She dated a guy and married him.  She seemed to have stabilized and even though I didn't want to be back in the r/s, I was jealous of how he had managed to find the magic formula that made her better.

Turns out, he didn't have a magic formula.  They had only been married about 6 months before it hit the skids and she separated with him.  We started talking again on a personal level and became friends.  One thing led to another and we got back together (after a lengthy discussion about the past and future... .not that it mattered in the end).  The past year for me has been a rollercoaster.  It's all pretty much crashed, but I can't get an official closing of the r/s from her because she refuses to talk about it (in reality, she can't).  Basically, in her mind, she still has me as a fallback. 

Anyway, as Inferno said, do yourself a favor and learn from our mistakes.  BPD doesn't go away.  It's possible it can be managed, but it takes a tremendous amount of commitment, time, and personal growth (a la DBT therapy) and medication to achieve this.  Most do not do that.  Even DBT and meds do not mean a "sure thing" on them being managed and functioning, either.  Mine is medicated and has recently started DBT.  It made things much worse, honestly.  She may be more stable/managed/regulated in the future, but she'll always have BPD in some form.  So, once again, I speak with some experience in having hope in it being better and being crushed when it doesn't happen.

It's hard now.  I understand.  It's worse when you are on that fringe of their lives after you (working with them).  Trust me, I know.  But I also know that you can and will survive this and be better for it.  I promise.

[Anez]

Thank you very much. I really appreciate knowing I'm not the only one to be steamrolled by something like this. Thanks for sharing your story and helping me.

[Lonely_Astro]

Thank you very much. I really appreciate knowing I'm not the only one to be steamrolled by something like this. Thanks for sharing your story and helping me.

You certainly aren't the first (or last) to be steamrolled by something like this.  I'll give you a story from today.  She and I have been slowly burning out for 6-7 weeks now.  In the past couple of weeks, we have been LC.  Friday, she went NC with me and today was the first day I saw her at work.  She started crying almost immediately when she saw me (I have become a trigger of guilt/shame/anger something).  It brought up a lot of emotions in me.  She spent time with me, reassuring me about her motives and what she was going through.  It was difficult for me to hear it because I didn't know if she was being honest or if she was lying to keep the door from closing.

It's going to be hard to move forward having to see her every day, especially since this r/s was much more than we had 4 years ago (and that almost killed me then) to me.  Trust me, it hurts now... .but it would hurt more if you kept yourself in the FOG.

[Anez]

I saw her at work once yesterday. She was walking down a long hall toward me, looking at me and I just took my right turn toward my desk and gave her nothing.

Today I was at a friends desk talking when I heard her coming. I ended my convo and walked away without saying anything.

Those were big steps for me and I'm proud of myself for it. I'm also proud of getting through a NC day. One day at a time.

[Anez]

Just saw her from across the office and man i get these feelings that pop up and make me physically sweat. but I still haven't talked to her. our last text was last thursday morning.

this is hard but this board is helping me get through it. thank you.

[cloudten]

Omg i would be finding a new job like it was my job.

[Anez]

I know. I've thought about it but I have a really good and unique job which makes it harder to find something in my line of work. Just gonna get through it the best I can. Therapy, good friends, and good thoughts.

[cloudten]

please protect yourself the best you can!

[Anez]

Made it through another day at work with barely seeing her and not saying a word to her. On one hand I'm happy that I'm able to resist talking to her. On the other hand I really miss what we used to have and I miss being the friends at work that we once were. We used to always chat, talk over im, eat lunch together. Laugh together. I miss all of those things so much. Being strangers is painful.

This is tough.

[Lonely_Astro]

Made it through another day at work with barely seeing her and not saying a word to her. On one hand I'm happy that I'm able to resist talking to her. On the other hand I really miss what we used to have and I miss being the friends at work that we once were. We used to always chat, talk over im, eat lunch together. Laugh together. I miss all of those things so much. Being strangers is painful.

This is tough.

I totally know where you're coming from on all fronts.  I couldn't leave my job for the reasons you mentioned (plus the benefits are stellar).  So I was forced to tough it out.  It was extremely tough, but I did it.

Now, I'm going through it all over again but its much much worse.  The reason being is because we were much closer this time around.  As in leaps and bounds closer.  I miss all the things with her that you miss with yours, but she simply isn't who she once pretended to be with me.  A part of me had hoped she would come back to lucidity, which is why I've stuck out LC for as long as I have.  But, it's simply not going to happen.  We've had more contact, but I would still consider ourselves LC and I still plan to exit the 'relationship'.  The push/pull mind games are starting to get ridiculous, even for me.

I keep chasing that elusive thing called 'closure', but I know it's just going to have to be like a band aid.  I'm just going to have to rip it off, bleed a little, and let the wound heal on its own.  She told me today that she had made copies of her DBT journal entries that were about me and she was going to bring them tomorrow for me to read (at her therapist's suggestion).  I am hopeful that she will, but I know in my heart that I'm going to be let down (because I question whether the entries even exist or not) and they will never appear.

Anyway, stay strong, the anxiety and all that will subside.  The fond memories will be fond but won't hold as much emotion for you as they do right now.  For whatever reason, today all I could think about was my favorite memory with her.  For many, they are probably thinking that I was having a sexual thought, but it was far from that.  4 years ago I had wanted to take her to this little cafe and have a meal with her.  Just a simple, no pressure, forget the world kind of meal in this little cozy cafe I know of.  She would never go.  Well, 4 years later, she went.  We sat in a little corner table and it had been exactly how I pictured it would be.  We took the long way back home and talked about life in general.  We did finish the night with sex, but that wasn't the highlight of that night.  The highlight was that I had finally got a dream of mine to come true.  I will always think about that memory and what it meant to me.  I know I'll never have that again, but God, is it a great memory to have.

Stay strong, Anez.

[Anez]

Thanks for sharing that, Astro. This support helps me a lot.

This whole being strangers thing is really messing with me.

This woman also played a part in the end of my marriage so my last two relationships have me reeling to find myself, my real self.

Luckily I have found a good therapist and I'm starting to dig in.

I just hate not being able to talk to her and how this whole thing fell apart.

[Lonely_Astro]

Thanks for sharing that, Astro. This support helps me a lot.

This whole being strangers thing is really messing with me.

This woman also played a part in the end of my marriage so my last two relationships have me reeling to find myself, my real self.

Luckily I have found a good therapist and I'm starting to dig in.

I just hate not being able to talk to her and how this whole thing fell apart.

I can see how you are off kilter from a BPD relationship.  Especially since she played a part in breaking up a marriage.  I am sure you were like me, you had a chance to work on (and potentially save) the marriage but you were to love blind by the BPD to do that.  You were ready to move on because a void had been filled with who you thought was your soulmate.  Trust me, I've been there.

What seems funny to me is that BPDs seem to flourish for those that are emotionally compromised and also unavailable (i.e., marriages on the rocks).  They seem so attracted to what they can't have, then they get it, and then leave.  That is hands down how mine worked this year (we were both married when this all started up again).  As time progressed and I got closer to being "all hers", she seemed to not be getting any closer to "being mine".  What I mean is that my separation/divorce was much more complicated than hers, yet hers started several months prior to mine and is still ongoing (because she was actually lying to me the entire time). 

I had plenty of chances to work on or fix my failing marriage, but I was to deaf to hear it because I was under the siren song of Jane.  It's another reason why I am so angry with her.  I walked away from something that could've been fixed on the promise of better days only to be smacked in the face (and somehow it's my fault) with rejection from Jane.  Don't get me wrong, it was partially my fault for not trying to fix anything, but she does share some responsibility in this.  I was just in the FOG and didn't care.  I say Jane didn't cause my divorce per se, but she "prevented" me from being willing to try to work it out.

In the end, I made the wrong choice.  I will always have regret for the choices I made.

[Anez]

Man, Astro, you absolutely nailed pretty much everything in that post. my therapist says she likes men who are taken because she knows chances are she will never have to worry about things getting serious.

Well things got serious with us, she brought over stuff to leave in my apartment and then she was gone, saying she had to work on herself so that relationships in the future would have more meaning to her. She said she wished should could shut things off in her brain to make it work but she just couldn't - which now leads me to believe she knows she has BPD, as she's been seeing a therapist the past few months, as I pushed her to do.

I'm just hurt by how the past 5 weeks or so she's been able to act at work like nothing is wrong. But now I'm starting to see why she's like that - she had BPD.

[Lonely_Astro]

Man, Astro, you absolutely nailed pretty much everything in that post. my therapist says she likes men who are taken because she knows chances are she will never have to worry about things getting serious.

Well things got serious with us, she brought over stuff to leave in my apartment and then she was gone, saying she had to work on herself so that relationships in the future would have more meaning to her. She said she wished should could shut things off in her brain to make it work but she just couldn't - which now leads me to believe she knows she has BPD, as she's been seeing a therapist the past few months, as I pushed her to do.

I'm just hurt by how the past 5 weeks or so she's been able to act at work like nothing is wrong. But now I'm starting to see why she's like that - she had BPD.

I once read that they pick relationships like that so they can create the fantasy without the risk of having to follow through with it.  However, they will demand more and more from you (i.e. "you need to be with me" or "I would treat you so much better" etc) and when you start to do that, they freak out and leave.  Jane and I had an argument while I was separated but not divorced.  I was dragging my feet for several reasons, one of those being I wanted to see if Jane actually was going to divorce Mike or if she was simply lying to me.  She got really angry at me because we couldn't be "us" in public because I was still married, completely ignoring the fact she was too.  She saw her "getting a divorce" and me being "separated" as two separate things, even though the reality is they weren't.  The kicker to all that?  She had zero paperwork on file that a divorce had even started (I went to the courthouse to pull the complaint and there was no record of it... .telling me that she was merely estranged or separated from Mike).  She, of course, made an excuse when confronted.  She also didn't like the fact I had called her bluff and shouldn't be casting stones at me when she was in the same glass house as I was.  She promptly found a new beau shortly after that (following an absolute, out of my character come apart I had about Nick -a guy she had cheated on me 4 years prior with and also on her husband - perhaps thats another story for another time).  Of course, I was to blame for her cheating because "I of all people talked to her like that and hurt her beyond" what she could've ever imagined.

Its moments like this when I begin to realize that I need to rip the band aid off, tell her to go pound sand, and go on with my life.  She has caused so much damage and even now doesn't give it a second thought.  She actually asked me today of we "were ok".  I'm not sure what that even means.  My instinct was to say "if by ok, you mean you're playing mind games with me, lying to me, intentionally keeping our relationship status vague, and treating me like a leper to make everything about you with zero respect for my feelings and wishes all the while telling me it has nothing to do with me that you're just overwhelmed but still have plenty of gusto to text frantically on your phone like your life depends on it every time I'm around to see it and make flirty arguments with people we have discussed makes me uncomfortable because you've screwed them in the past and I know your penchant for letting "exes" between your legs... .then yes, we're ok."  That's exactly how I felt in that moment.

I know that she has replaced me and she's also trying to still hurt me by flirting with past co-worker lovers and mentioned to me that she wanted to be "completely honest" by telling me the guy she cheated on me with in July sent her a snapchat randomly the other day asking how she was doing - to which she allegedly replied to him that she wished for him to leave her alone (ha!  right) - in case I heard he had been in contact with her (how would I have ever known that?).

I'm working myself up by typing all that to rip off the band aid tomorrow and just cold turkey quit talking to her.  I think I need to set it in my mind that if she doesn't deliver on the journal entries tomorrow that is my "permission" to myself to make the break.  I think what I need to do is just ghost out of her life fully so that I can heal and move on.  I could only be so lucky that she quits, but I don't see it happening.  That would relieve some of my tension and I not dread going to work everyday.  But thank you Anez, you give me hope and inspiration that I, too, can do what you've done (a second time around, in my case).

[Anez]

I'm sorry you're going through all of that, Astro. Are you seeing a therapist? Each week I leave my session with such a better mindset than I had before the session. I go on Thursdays so right now I'm close to running on empty and can't wait to talk to him tomorrow.

With my ex it's weird because we never fought. The only time she ever got mad at me was last wed night when I had to much to drink at a co-workers going away party and then tried to get her to go for a walk when we were waiting with other co workers for our cabs. She texted me that I crossed a line and to not act like that in front of coworkers. Our coworkers don't know about us.

That was the last time we talked. She was different that night. Just talking with her it was like we never shared the moments that we've shared. She told me to find closure and that we shouldn't be out at social events anymore.

She has a ___ed up family history but never told me the details. She's 25 and has a great 3 year old girl. She has a lot of stuff on her plate and I'm no longer one of those things, which hurts.

My friend is playing matchmaker with a girl he knows and a girl I've known for a year or so and what's messed up is I'm hesitant to start something with her because it will mean the end with the other girl.

Man I can't wait for therapy.

We will get through this, Astro. We deserve to.

[LostGhost]

I too work with my ex and see her most every day. We sit close to each other so I hear everything she says. She's super friendly to everyone. Very flirtatious with all men. I talk to her almost every day but I am strictly placed in the friendzone. I don't recognize her any more. I see only glimpses of the person that used to love me. I too have a unique career and would not leave but this situation is making me desperately unhappy.

Physically I'm getting better every week but emotionally I feel numb or dead inside. I derive very little enjoyment from my life and don't see that changing any time soon. I have a lot going for me, lots of hobbies, friends etc etc but I'm completely miserable. I don't understand why I feel this way. Nobody knows how I truly feel because I put on a smiling mask that makes me appear I have everything together. But the opposite is true.

I can't recommend recycling to anyone. You will be severely disappointed with the results and left with even more pain and suffering than before. It's exponential.

[Anez]

I know exactly how you feel, lost ghost. I do the same thing with the happy face and every day at work I feel exactly opposite of how I felt when she and I were together. It's scary. It's like a lack of self confidence while not knowing which way is up. She's all I think of every day and hearing her talk and laugh with other people creates a pain that others don't understand.

You're not alone. We will get through this. If you're not in therapy I suggest to get into it. I'm two weeks in and my guy totally understands BPD. It helps. I'm still stuck on this girl but I know this therapy is helping and will get me to where I need to be.

You're not alone.

[Lonely_Astro]

I'm sorry you're going through all of that, Astro. Are you seeing a therapist? Each week I leave my session with such a better mindset than I had before the session. I go on Thursdays so right now I'm close to running on empty and can't wait to talk to him tomorrow.

With my ex it's weird because we never fought. The only time she ever got mad at me was last wed night when I had to much to drink at a co-workers going away party and then tried to get her to go for a walk when we were waiting with other co workers for our cabs. She texted me that I crossed a line and to not act like that in front of coworkers. Our coworkers don't know about us.

That was the last time we talked. She was different that night. Just talking with her it was like we never shared the moments that we've shared. She told me to find closure and that we shouldn't be out at social events anymore.

She has aed up family history but never told me the details. She's 25 and has a great 3 year old girl. She has a lot of stuff on her plate and I'm no longer one of those things, which hurts.

My friend is playing matchmaker with a girl he knows and a girl I've known for a year or so and what's messed up is I'm hesitant to start something with her because it will mean the end with the other girl.

Man I can't wait for therapy.

We will get through this, Astro. We deserve to.

Thanks, Anez.  Yes, I have recently started seeing a therapist in order to move past this and let go of the animosity and anxiety that I am experiencing.  It's still early and the suggestion is that I "forget about her" and move on with my life, which is much easier on paper to do than to do in real life.  At this point, I'm not even sure what I'm trying to accomplish by having any contact with her... .I don't want to have a r/s with her because it isn't healthy and can't be a true r/s anyway.

This morning she came by my office and talked more candidly with me.  She told me that I had pushed her away by always telling her why she felt a certain way (which, in fact, I hadn't done unless she asked me and even then I had said something about it "may be" because of this or that).  She also told me that she always felt that no matter what she did for me, I was never happy with her.  There is a semi-truth to that.  What I mean is that I would often times get upset if she had refused to see me for a couple of weeks outside of work.  Why?  Because I ultimately didn't (and don't) trust her.  I was always worried she was sleeping around or otherwise emotionally cheating on me and it would compound until I couldn't take it anymore and I would get upset. 

Anyway, she said that we needed to talk outside of work (yeah, I know, right?).  I told her I was free tonight and she said "we'll see" (which is her way of blowing it off - noncommittal style).  I've been LC with her ever since (I've been out of the office all day).  I haven't asked about tonight, but I have a feeling she either will not talk to me the rest of the day or won't mention it because one of the last things she told me was that our conversations stress her out and I asked her to help me understand what she meant and she said "idk just frustrating".  I sent a reply and she hasn't responded, so it looks like I am back on the ST wagon.

What she doesn't know is that I am ripping the band aid off.  Starting tomorrow, I am going cold turkey.  It's my only option, as I've tried to play nice, I've tried to take a higher road... .but I am just at the end of the rope.  I had hoped we (as in me) could get some sense of closure and end amicably, but that's just not going to happen.  It's probably best anyway, as I think if we were to go face to face in my currently mood I would give her exactly what she wants: an unedited, unfiltered view of what I think about her.  That wouldn't serve any legitimate purpose other than to justify to herself that whats she's done to me is completely justifiable.

[Anez]

NC is tough, Astro. As you know. But i think it's the best thing to do. Right now I really don't have a choice as she's not contacting me so I have to hold strong and not break down and contact her. The good news is that she's going out of her way to not be near me at work, which is helping. She used to come over and talk to people around me and eat lunch in the lounge that is right by my desk. I'd have to hear her talking and laughing and that drove me nuts.

We never had a face to face talk after she started cutting off ties from me, which hurt. I'd ask her to but she said just the thought of it gave her a ton of anxiety, which says a lot about her and a lot about what she might be dealing with in terms of BPD.

I just saw her briefly and she was smiling with one of her girlfriends at work and the pain wasn't as strong as before - i used to break out in sweats when i saw her. So i guess it's getting better. I think i'm just feeding off her strong desire to have nothing to do with me.

Oh and tomorrow is her birthday. I will not say anything to her. I will just get through it.

[Lonely_Astro]

NC is tough, Astro. As you know. But i think it's the best thing to do. Right now I really don't have a choice as she's not contacting me so I have to hold strong and not break down and contact her. The good news is that she's going out of her way to not be near me at work, which is helping. She used to come over and talk to people around me and eat lunch in the lounge that is right by my desk. I'd have to hear her talking and laughing and that drove me nuts.

We never had a face to face talk after she started cutting off ties from me, which hurt. I'd ask her to but she said just the thought of it gave her a ton of anxiety, which says a lot about her and a lot about what she might be dealing with in terms of BPD.

I just saw her briefly and she was smiling with one of her girlfriends at work and the pain wasn't as strong as before - i used to break out in sweats when i saw her. So i guess it's getting better. I think i'm just feeding off her strong desire to have nothing to do with me.

Oh and tomorrow is her birthday. I will not say anything to her. I will just get through it.

Yes, it's extremely tough.  Especially when you get wrapped up in reminiscing, rumination, and they appear to be having a moment of lucidity.  The last part makes it extremely tough.  What makes it tougher is when you come to the conclusion that they are faking it all the way around.  What I mean is that yours is laughing and having a great time, which is a mask, just as much as her ignoring you is a mask.  Inside, she is empty and loathes herself, which she projects onto those that are closest to her (you).  It's sad, really.

Surprisingly, mine called me after work today (FaceTime of all things) and talked to me on her way home.  She told me about her divorce proceedings (even gave a final date of when it would be dissolved, which is actually in line with the law).  But, she did throw in there where Mike is "doing all he can" to get her to come back, which she has told me she isn't interested in.  She also said that she planned to come see me tonight.  We'll actually see what happens when the appointed time comes.

I plan to talk to her, if she shows (which I doubt she will, frankly).  More about procedures for being at work and so on to see if we can amicably (and officially) dismantle whats left of the r/s.  I hope she does stay with and takes seriously DBT, but I just have a feeling that she won't.  Maybe she'll be more managed at the end of it, only time will tell.