Help Getting OUT...New here

[Depression = 72% of members]

I posted on the divorce board, but wasn't sure if this would be a more appropriate place or not... .

Hi, I am new here, I was referred to this board through a marriage forum.  I have been pretty convinced that my husband had a personality disorder for quite some time now, but I wasn't sure which one or if it really mattered.  Thought I would be stuck in the hell forever and didn't think he would ever be willing to get "help" or that "help" would ever be enough to change him.  Things have spiraled out of control over the last couple years, and I am now leaving.  I never thought I would say that... .

He has been extremely controlling, jealous, and abusive all throughout our almost 12 year marriage.  Majority of the abuse has been mental / emotional hell, but there has been times where he crosses the line physically. 

To add to the complexity of our situation, we are both teachers, and work on the same campus.  He is on "good behavior" right now, but he has been harassing me at campus basically off and on all year.

The more and more I read about BPD it is just flooring me.  I feel like I am reading my life.  It is such a shame that I fell for this crap.  I am an intellegent, educated, very strong woman.  How did I fall for this?  I was young at the time we got married, only 19.  But honestly even then, I saw the red flags, but they didn't start coming out until we were already talking marriage, and then I guess I told myself, "no one is perfect", the more he sees that I really do love him, the less he will feel these ways, etc.  Eventually I felt like he was making me go insane.  I got to the point where I would yell, cuss at him, etc.  It felt like he was driving me to insanity.  The straw that broke the camels back and made me separate from him, was when he destroyed my cell phone after I threatened to "call the cops" on him.

We have been separated for 2 months now, and I am done.  At first I thought I was just giving him time to "get help" (but away from me), but he has continued to hurt me throughout the separation and I just don't have the energy to do it anymore.  I am trying to find legal help and file for divorce.  I don't trust what he could be capable of once he realizes that it is over.  Will I be harassed by him the rest of my life? We have two little boys who look up to him and don't really understand what is going on.  The oldest thinks "daddy is on a time out because he needs to learn how to treat mommy better".  But he will be devastated when it is really over.  I just have to keep reminding myself that living in the environment was NOT healthy for them... .

Thanks for any help or advice. I ordered the book "splitting" and it is supposed to come in the mail today... .

[jbkt16]

I posted on the divorce board, but wasn't sure if this would be a more appropriate place or not... .

Hi, I am new here, I was referred to this board through a marriage forum.  I have been pretty convinced that my husband had a personality disorder for quite some time now, but I wasn't sure which one or if it really mattered.  Thought I would be stuck in the hell forever and didn't think he would ever be willing to get "help" or that "help" would ever be enough to change him.  Things have spiraled out of control over the last couple years, and I am now leaving.  I never thought I would say that... .

He has been extremely controlling, jealous, and abusive all throughout our almost 12 year marriage.  Majority of the abuse has been mental / emotional hell, but there has been times where he crosses the line physically. 

To add to the complexity of our situation, we are both teachers, and work on the same campus.  He is on "good behavior" right now, but he has been harassing me at campus basically off and on all year.

The more and more I read about BPD it is just flooring me.  I feel like I am reading my life.  It is such a shame that I fell for this crap.  I am an intellegent, educated, very strong woman.  How did I fall for this?  I was young at the time we got married, only 19.  But honestly even then, I saw the red flags, but they didn't start coming out until we were already talking marriage, and then I guess I told myself, "no one is perfect", the more he sees that I really do love him, the less he will feel these ways, etc.  Eventually I felt like he was making me go insane.  I got to the point where I would yell, cuss at him, etc.  It felt like he was driving me to insanity.  The straw that broke the camels back and made me separate from him, was when he destroyed my cell phone after I threatened to "call the cops" on him.

We have been separated for 2 months now, and I am done.  At first I thought I was just giving him time to "get help" (but away from me), but he has continued to hurt me throughout the separation and I just don't have the energy to do it anymore.  I am trying to find legal help and file for divorce.  I don't trust what he could be capable of once he realizes that it is over.  Will I be harassed by him the rest of my life? We have two little boys who look up to him and don't really understand what is going on.  The oldest thinks "daddy is on a time out because he needs to learn how to treat mommy better".  But he will be devastated when it is really over.  I just have to keep reminding myself that living in the environment was NOT healthy for them... .

Thanks for any help or advice. I ordered the book "splitting" and it is supposed to come in the mail today... .

[Michelle27]

Welcome to the board.  You sound like you are exactly where I was 6 months ago.  My ex and I were together almost 15 years (married for 7) and we separated for 3 months in what was supposed to be a therapeutic separation while he sought help and I worked on healing.  After 3 months, I realized two things:  That he was going through the motions simply to not lose me (and/or the gravy train that was what staying with me was since I was mostly financially responsible for our household) and that there was far too much damage done for me to heal and truly ever be able to trust him again.  I saw a counselor for 10 months both before and after the separation and it helped immensely. 

These boards have been a lifesaver too.  PM'ing with people who have been where you have been has been valuable, but most important is seeing others' stories so much like your own.  Ask any questions you have here.  Everyone is very helpful.

[jbkt16]

Welcome to the board.  You sound like you are exactly where I was 6 months ago.  My ex and I were together almost 15 years (married for 7) and we separated for 3 months in what was supposed to be a therapeutic separation while he sought help and I worked on healing.  After 3 months, I realized two things:  That he was going through the motions simply to not lose me (and/or the gravy train that was what staying with me was since I was mostly financially responsible for our household) and that there was far too much damage done for me to heal and truly ever be able to trust him again.  I saw a counselor for 10 months both before and after the separation and it helped immensely. 

These boards have been a lifesaver too.  PM'ing with people who have been where you have been has been valuable, but most important is seeing others' stories so much like your own.  Ask any questions you have here.  Everyone is very helpful.

Thanks for the welcome, your story does sound so similar to mine.  He had me fooled for a bit thinking he was changing, the first few weeks of separation.  To the point that I almost bought a house with him, we are renting at the time.  I am SOO glad I didn't make such an ignorant mistake.  The cycle has continued and I can't take it anymore.  I am just exhausted.  Are you in the process of getting divorced now, or have you already?

His harassment has gotten worse throughout the separation (with times in between of "good behavior)... .to the point where I am worried of what he could do when he realizes it is really done.  I keep thinking "if he acts like this when there was / is a chance to keep me in the relationship; what will he do when he realizes that there is no chance"?

He makes threats in all kinds of ways.  The first time I tried to separate he was in tears and mentioned killing himself, so I didn't go... .  But oddly he has seemed really calm these last few days.  In the sense that he hasn't tried to come and talk to me, he hasn't been texting.  I think he may see the writing on the wall now, and I know that he talked to a lawyer, I think the lawyer encouraged him to quit harassing me, because he seems to be very careful with his words at this point.  In a way he is still saying things to try to control me, but they are much less obvious.  If I showed the text to someone else, they likely wouldn't see it as the control tactics that they are.

How does this play out with these types of people?  I have a feeling he will fight me on every single thing he can.  That he will make my life hell, that he will drag things out... .Do these people end up just giving up eventually or do they mainly act as I just described?

[Michelle27]

During my separation before I called it quits for good, he really was making a good show of getting help, but it just didn't ring true to me.  My therapist kept telling me to watch the actions, not the words and kept reminding me that the best predictor of future behavior was past.  Not to mention that many lies were coming out, I was losing hope and focused on working on me, which didn't seem possible to do safely while continuing to walk on eggshells not feeling safe with him.  At some point I realized that sense of safety should not have to be built, it should never have left.  AT the time, he was stalking me and continuing to lie to people while telling me a different story and I said no more.  I made arrangements to meet him in a public place and told him.  He told me I didn't give him "enough of a chance".  Really?  5 years since I knew about BPD and had been doing everything to change my own response, to grow a backbone enough to have boundaries and to also lose some co-dependent tendencies.  But I was still depending on him to change his own issues and realized that I couldn't wait any longer and knew that no matter how much better he seemed in the short term, there was so many years of dysfunction, I wouldn't feel safe.

Because of the stalking behaviors including electronic and "in real life", I changed the locks the day he moved out and chose only email communication.  He continued stalking and only managed to spend 5.5 hours with our daughter in the first 6 weeks of separation.  Then he disappeared, changed his phone number (she was in touch with him by text and phone before this) and didn't bother telling anyone, including her, the new number.  That was 3.5 months ago.  Oh and no child support now for 6 months... .but being NC for me is worth it.  For my daughter, my heart breaks.  She knows he has disappeared and that it's likely due to his mental health issues and she is holding up pretty well all considering.  I have her in a counseling group for kids who have witnessed abuse and it's helped a lot.

In my 5 years on these boards, separations/divorces seem to go one of several ways.  Much harassment/stalking/contact or like mine, disappearing.  So it's "normal" either way.

The biggest thing I've learned is how much I need to continue the road of focusing on me, how I got into this relationship (and my first abusive marriage) and what I need to work on with me to avoid this in my future.  I've come a long way, but I know I have a long ways to go yet.

[jbkt16]

Thank you everyone. I got packed up and my parents came and helped me move out this past Saturday. I feel so relieved to be out of the house, for good. He didn't act too suprised and hasn't been harassing me like I expected. I feel a little weird that he is not acting out like he typically would. It kind of feels like the "calm before the storm"? Anyone else experience this? Thanks again.

[Michelle27]

It's not always negative behaviors after a split. It can also be the opposite from what I've seen on these boards... .like a return to the idealization phase at the beginning of the relationship.  Which doesn't sound bad except from what I've seen on these boards, many people believe the pwBPD has "seen the light" and is making changes and what usually happens instead is that the cycle into devaluation just comes quicker. 

[jbkt16]

I did it... .

I found a lawyer that was reasonable enough that I could afford, and I had her file the papers on Friday.  It doesn't feel real yet, because he doesn't know yet.  It is such a weird feeling.  To know that I am going to be done (but probably never really done) with his horrible abuse and the boys are no longer going to be living in a house filled with so much conflict.  I pray that they are young enough to be able to learn that relationship should not ever be that hurtful.  But at the same time, I feel horribly guilty.  Our oldest (5 years old) desperately wants us to be under the same roof again (we haven't been for 2 months now) and he doesn't understand how unhealthy of an environment he was living in before.  It makes me so sad that I am "breaking apart" the family and I have to remind myself that I am not breaking apart the family, that his abuse broke apart the family.

I am so anxious to see how he reacts when he finds out I have filed and that it is really over with.  I am so nervous that he will be able to fool lawyers, judges, etc that he is some wonderful guy who would never hurt a fly... .

[flourdust]

I'm proud of you, jbkt16. You have a lot of courage to take this step. I'm still trying to find the courage myself.

Like you, I'm thinking about my kid. She loves both of us, but she hates the fighting, and she's been parentified too much into becoming my wife's confidant and therapist, and taking on the role of mediator. A few nights ago, I watched her run back and forth from the kitchen to the bedroom, trying to negotiate how her mother would come out for dinner. No kid should have to do that.

Divorce will hurt her. I just tell myself that she's already being hurt -- this will be better.

[Skip]

We have been separated for 2 months now, and I am done.  At first I thought I was just giving him time to "get help" (but away from me), but he has continued to hurt me throughout the separation and I just don't have the energy to do it anymore.  I am trying to find legal help and file for divorce.  I don't trust what he could be capable of once he realizes that it is over.  Will I be harassed by him the rest of my life? We have two little boys who look up to him and don't really understand what is going on.  The oldest thinks "daddy is on a time out because he needs to learn how to treat mommy better".  But he will be devastated when it is really over.  I just have to keep reminding myself that living in the environment was NOT healthy for them... .

Thanks for any help or advice. I ordered the book "splitting" and it is supposed to come in the mail today... .

This is really hard, I'm sure. Especially with your son. And you two will be tethered together in some type of relationship until he gets older. It may take a little work on your end to calm it.

Have you tried marriage counseling?

Most of us thing of marriage counseling as a reconciliation process, but this is not the only outcome.

Marriage Counseling May Lead to Divorce

When many people ask the question “does marriage counseling work?”, they are really asking whether or not marriage counseling can save their marriage. Unfortunately, this is not always the right question to ask. In some cases, marriage counseling works by convincing a couple that they are not in a healthy relationship and by giving the couple the encouragement they need to end their relationship. According to some research, approximately a quarter of couples who receive marriage therapy report that their relationship is worse two years after ending therapy, and up to 38 percent of couples who receive marriage therapy get divorced within four years of completing therapy. These statistics lead some people to consider one of the growing number of alternatives to marriage counseling. One of the more popular alternatives is Marriage Fitness, created by relationship expert Mort Fertel, who has had over 2 million users.

www.guidedoc.com/does-marriage-counseling-work-statistics-facts

pwBPD do not do well with stress. Right now there is a lot of stress, so he is at his worst. And it is often bad in the year after the divorce - but there are thing you can do to cool it a bit.

What kind of harassment are you getting?

[jbkt16]

Thank y'all so much.  Yes, we did do a bit of marriage counseling, but eventually he and the therapist agreed that it would be best for just him to come in.  Basically they were "his" issues, not really "marriage problems" that needed to be addressed.  So he continued to go and I stopped.  Honestly, I didn't feel like I could really be honest there anyway, in fear of what blow-ups would happen if I told the truth.  I was honest, to a certain extent, but left out crucial details.

At the first session, the therapist suggested that separation may in fact be a good idea (this was before we had separated and I had mentioned thinking it may be for the best).  It was at the end of the session, he was furious, the guy was shocked to see that we actually came back the next week.  His comments after we left were basically ... ."how dare he give my wife permission to just separate from me anytime that she wants".  He ended up eventually switching to a guy who focused more on anger, I agreed that he may need a different person, but I don't think anger is the issue, it is basically only the side effect of the real issues.

As for harassment, he has backed off now, because he was "officially warned" at school.  We work at the same campus (we are both teachers).  He had been coming to my room, saying hateful things, when I would ask him to go away he wouldn't.  One incident got so bad that he followed me all around the campus, within inches of me, I asked him repeatedly to get away and he wouldn't.  I eventually locked myself in a one hole bathroom to get away from him.  I had to push him away just to get into the bathroom.  Then he stood outside the doorway saying "look who's pushing now, look who's the abuser now" , as I was sobbing in the bathroom.  He also showed up at the house unannounced.  When I asked him to please leave he stood outside ringing the doorbell over and over again.  My oldest son (5) said, "mommy why are you being a bully to daddy?"  It is so sad, but he just doesn't understand that at times daddy can be very unsafe... .

The incident that forced me to finally separate was when he destroyed my cell phone (over and over again) to keep me from calling the police, then did not allow me to leave the house, by literally holding on to my son.

[jbkt16]

I'm proud of you, jbkt16. You have a lot of courage to take this step. I'm still trying to find the courage myself.

Like you, I'm thinking about my kid. She loves both of us, but she hates the fighting, and she's been parentified too much into becoming my wife's confidant and therapist, and taking on the role of mediator. A few nights ago, I watched her run back and forth from the kitchen to the bedroom, trying to negotiate how her mother would come out for dinner. No kid should have to do that.

Divorce will hurt her. I just tell myself that she's already being hurt -- this will be better.

Thank you for the kind words.  I don't feel courageous, I feel ignorant for putting up with the terrible treatment for so long.  I know it is best for the boys in the long run, but it feels so hard right now, and I am so afraid that he will manage to "charm" a judge... .

[Skip]

Are things peaceful right now? Are you past the stage of his "needing to be heard" or of physical control. Can you exchange the kids without incident?

Or is this in crisis mode?

[jbkt16]

Are things peaceful right now? Are you past the stage of his "needing to be heard" or of physical control. Can you exchange the kids without incident?

Or is this in crisis mode?

I'm not quite sure to be honest.  He was very peaceful at the last exchange (Sunday) although it was raining and we didn't say much.    The exchange before that I insisted that he send his dad, because he had just found out that I moved all my stuff out of the house, and I was afraid how he would react.

He does seem to be kind of calm right now, it is actually worrying me even more, like I am waiting for the bottom to fall out.  He doesn't know I filed, and should be served later this week hopefully.  If he is past that point, will receiving the papers send him back into that mode?  Thanks!

We were definitely in the crisis mode for a while, but I think maybe he is starting to get past that... .

[Michelle27]

Glad to hear from you again with an update.  I can't imagine how stressful that would be working on the same campus.  I'm a teacher too and if I had to deal with my ex on a daily basis, I would lose my mind.  Work has been an absolute refuge from the stress of my marriage. 

Hopefully having him served will not escalate things, but I'm sure it helps your peace of mind.  Making the decision alone took a huge weight off my shoulders.

[jbkt16]

Glad to hear from you again with an update.  I can't imagine how stressful that would be working on the same campus.  I'm a teacher too and if I had to deal with my ex on a daily basis, I would lose my mind.  Work has been an absolute refuge from the stress of my marriage. 

Hopefully having him served will not escalate things, but I'm sure it helps your peace of mind.  Making the decision alone took a huge weight off my shoulders.

It is ridiculously stressful!  It has just magnified an already terrible situation.  But now that I went to the principal and filled him in on what was going on, it is much much better.  He brought him in and basically gave him a warning, since then he has not been harassing me so far, but I am worried what will come once he is served with papers.