Talked To My (In-Limbo) Ex Last Night (Part 1)

[Depression = 72% of members]

That might be very true, and I certainly think about that a lot. She somehow always stops me from walking away, and I stop her from walking away. I don't know what we're doing anymore; it's very confusing for both of us.

I can hear that. Someone on the outside of my relationship would tell me to just pull the plug and get divorced now, stat, immediately. I can't logically tell them they'd be wrong.

Why don't you, by the way? If you don't mind me asking... .

I promised myself to wait until after the holidays before making any decisions. I'm getting more comfortable with the decision in my head, but I'm going to keep to my timetable rather than act impulsively. I might be fooling myself by stalling to avoid the unpleasantness. I guess we'll see.

[flourdust]

That might be very true, and I certainly think about that a lot. She somehow always stops me from walking away, and I stop her from walking away. I don't know what we're doing anymore; it's very confusing for both of us.

I can hear that. Someone on the outside of my relationship would tell me to just pull the plug and get divorced now, stat, immediately. I can't logically tell them they'd be wrong.

Why don't you, by the way? If you don't mind me asking... .

I promised myself to wait until after the holidays before making any decisions. I'm getting more comfortable with the decision in my head, but I'm going to keep to my timetable rather than act impulsively. I might be fooling myself by stalling to avoid the unpleasantness. I guess we'll see.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Sunfl0wer]

What ACTIONS is she taking towards having a relationship with you?  Not talk, not words or sentiment... .but what behaviors has she DONE... ._{not said}... .that draw the two of you into a closer relationship?  _{Not draw you into her drama}... .but real things you value having in a relationship?

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm not implying anything.  I legitimately do not understand what she has done towards making a relationship with you.

What is she fixing?

[Skip]

That sounds to me like childish, disordered behavior, not necessarily a contradiction in logic. And that is what SHE has taken to heart - that that way doesn't work. So she's fixing it for herself, and that's great.

Bob, did you ever take something apart that has a lot of parts and started to get lost? The proverbial "Can't see the forest for the trees"? We are over "BPDing" the dilemma.

If you analyze this without "BPD" is a over complicated situation with a lot of forks in the road for her. This part has nothing to do with mental illness - anyone in her shoes would be flooded and not highly predictable as to where they will be in a year.  Your discounting this. It will not serve you well to do so.

Layer BPD traits on that, and you get fantasy and over/under reactions, and stress intolerance layer on top.

There are a lot of unknowns rand risks here. You really have little chance of successfully navigating this unless you grasp all in a way that sets a stage that she can favorably step on in her own time and way  - and do so without having her lose respect for you or you going crazy in the process.

For example - the standard advice for someone dating a person getting a divorce is to give them a year or so of all the space they need and do not make demands on them.  Why?  They can easily overload and just start eliminating things to keep their sanity.

Your nine months into this - there might be 6 -12 months more.  Can you live or work with uncertainty for that long?

[MapleBob]

What ACTIONS is she taking towards having a relationship with you?  Not talk, not words or sentiment... .but what behaviors has she DONE... ._{not said}... .that draw the two of you into a closer relationship?  _{Not draw you into her drama}... .but real things you value having in a relationship?

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm not implying anything.  I legitimately do not understand what she has done towards making a relationship with you.

What is she fixing?

I didn't think you were being sarcastic, sorry about that. We're cool, Sunflower!

Good question. Not much. And less as time has gone on and she's pushed away more, but she's been working on other aspects of her life. After a relatively calm, intimate period between us last summer where we were texting goodnight every day and talking pretty often, she took a trip to a place that we had gone when we were together and had a lot of feelings about me there, and cried on the train home, and then got very dramatic with me about it. I made a big move to leave because it felt like that stalled things out, and that underlying issues weren't being dealt with that were affecting the relationship progression. She sent me flowers, and begged me not to give up on this. She's sent me cards, she's reached out to me, we've written letters ... .and she has talked about a vague future where we are involved in each other's lives in some as-yet-undetermined way (yes, I know, talked about). She knows she wants to at least be family/friends, but we are way more intense than friends on both sides, and I think that she could be too scared to admit that she wants more than that, but can't see the way to get there, especially with everything that is going on for her, and the obstacles that remain.

I acknowledge that that could very well be at least 90% wishful thinking on my part. That would be understandable.

[Sunfl0wer]

So sorry... . I know you say all is cool... .but this sounds harsh and I don't know how else to say it... .

WHAT are you trying to "save?"

What IS the relationship?

_{Her behavior communicates that she is not available... .and not emotionally ready to be available.  What I hear in her behavior is that she is in a 'working' relationship with her ex and you are serving to help a function in their relationship 'work.'  I believe this is exactly the position I was in with my ex... .he was too entangled with her... .stated he wanted to be free of her... .but he was drawn to her like a zombie... .mindlessly... .nonsensical.  However, that may not be allowed to be stated in this board?}

[MapleBob]

That sounds to me like childish, disordered behavior, not necessarily a contradiction in logic. And that is what SHE has taken to heart - that that way doesn't work. So she's fixing it for herself, and that's great.

Bob, did you ever take something apart that has a lot of parts and started to get lost? The proverbial "Can't see the forest for the trees"? We are over "BPDing" the dilemma.

If you analyze this without "BPD" is a over complicated situation with a lot of forks in the road for her. This part has nothing to do with mental illness - anyone in her shoes would be flooded and not highly predictable as to where they will be in a year.  Your discounting this. It will not serve you well to do so.

Layer BPD traits on that, and you get fantasy and over/under reactions, and stress intolerance layer on top.

There are a lot of unknowns rand risks here. You really have little chance of successfully navigating this unless you grasp all in a way that sets a stage that she can favorably step on in her own time and way  - and do so without having her lose respect for you or you going crazy in the process.

For example - the standard advice for someone dating a person getting a divorce is to give them a year or so of all the space they need and do not make demands on them.  Why?  They can easily overload and just start eliminating things to keep their sanity.

Your nine months into this - there might be 6 -12 months more.  Can you live or work with uncertainty for that long?

You're right, Skip. I probably am still being discounting. I'm getting worked up and frustrated. I don't know how much longer is worth it to hang in there. I don't know if I can be just her friend either, honestly, or if she can be mine. I don't know how much hope to have, or how little. It's all unknowns and contradictions right now. Neither of us are entirely willing/able to let go of each other yet, so I have to learn to work with this. I need to do what I can to settle this down, at least. Maybe that means walking away for a while, or more fully detaching. It sucks, because I'm ready to make the moves and do the work, but she's not. Not to the extent that I am. Timing. So key.

[MapleBob]

So sorry... . I know you say all is cool... .but this sounds harsh and I don't know how else to say it... .

WHAT are you trying to "save?"

What IS the relationship?

_{Her behavior communicates that she is not available... .and not emotionally ready to be available.  What I hear in her behavior is that she is in a 'working' relationship with her ex and you are serving to help a function in their relationship 'work.'  I believe this is exactly the position I was in with my ex... .he was too entangled with her... .stated he wanted to be free of her... .but he was drawn to her like a zombie... .mindlessly... .nonsensical.  However, that may not be allowed to be stated in this board?}

We're entangled and we don't know how to be together OR be friends OR let each other go. So we're struggling to define the relationship and its boundaries and its function. That's the best way I can put it. We were together, now we're not, but we're super intense as friends, and it feels stuck *in between*. I'm inclined to give a romantic another shot, and she favors being friends and taking space to do some work (at least "for now". It's tough.

Believe me, she wants to be free of him. She wants him in a brother role for her, and still a dad role for their daughter. That relationship has major work to be done on it before she can reach her goals, though, that's true. It's a priority because she is FIERCE about her daughter.

[Skip]

Neither of us are entirely willing/able to let go of each other yet, so I have to learn to work with this. I need to do what I can to settle this down, at least. Maybe that means walking away for a while, or more fully detaching. It sucks, because I'm ready to make the moves and do the work, but she's not. Not to the extent that I am. Timing. So key.

This is the"Saving Board" (not undecided) so please don't take anything I say as discouragement.  What I am trying to help you visualize is what it is going to take and the level of uncertainly you face in investing yourself in the relationship. I encourage to immerse yourself in that, think it through, conceptualize how it will evolve, get it all i under your belt. 

Then decide.

Right now you are vacillating between fantasy (this will fix in the next two weeks) and defeat and trying to choose between.  Get into the "nuts and bolts" reality here. It will take you a long way toward reaching her, finding inner peace, and knowing when your on a track and when you have hit a wall.

[MapleBob]

Neither of us are entirely willing/able to let go of each other yet, so I have to learn to work with this. I need to do what I can to settle this down, at least. Maybe that means walking away for a while, or more fully detaching. It sucks, because I'm ready to make the moves and do the work, but she's not. Not to the extent that I am. Timing. So key.

This is the"Saving Board" (not undecided) so please don't take anything I say as discouragement.  What I am trying to help you visualize is what it is going to take and the level of uncertainly you face in investing yourself in the relationship. I encourage to immerse yourself in that, think it through, conceptualize how it will evolve, get it all i under your belt.  

Then decide.

Right now you are vacillating between fantasy (this will fix in the next two weeks) and defeat and trying to choose between.  Get into the "nuts and bolts" reality here. It will take you a long way toward reaching her, finding inner peace, and knowing when your on a track and when you have hit a wall.

This IS the "Saving Board", and I want to salvage this relationship. I'm having a hard time picturing the middle ground in this relationship, so I think that's why I'm vacillating between "oh my god, fix it now, it hurts and it's confusing!" and "I gotta get out of this now, it hurts and it's confusing!" I'm trying to turn maybe a lost cause into a hopeful situation, and maybe that's not within my power. But I'm trying.

And really, truly, and sincerely: thank all of you for your continued input and advice, it's really helping me. Even the hard, challenging stuff.

[steve195915]

Bob,

I don't know if you're ex has BPD but one common trait for a pwBPD is that their focus in a relationship is 100% on meeting their needs.  Her talking on the phone for hours with you to discuss her issues and then you getting the brush off later when you wanted needs of yours discussed is a classic example of this.  Yes it can be very frustrating on you when you have many unresolved issues and want to at least know the direction your relationship is going but you can't even start a discussion about it.  Right now it looks like she is overwhelmed dealing with her other issues right now and if you push her to deal with your relationship issues, you will be ignored and the more you push you will most likely get pushback from her even up to the point of her telling you she's done with you just as her way to avoid dealing with it.

So if you want to be in a relationship with her I recommend patience and understand and accept your relationship is not going to be a focus with her right now and find encouragement in that she was willing to use you as her sounding board in dealing with her issues.  Her being in therapy is also encouraging.  Though it may seem very unfair, you will get a better responses from her if you make yourself available to be there to meet whatever her needs are right now.  By telling her you were happy she opened up to you during your long phone call and that you are there for her if she ever wants to talk about her issues you may find her much more receptive in additional phone calls with you.  Just lower your expectations that she will be ready anytime soon to discuss your relationship.  

[MapleBob]

Thanks, steve. That's very sound advice. It IS tough to be the one waiting. I feel like it's unimportant to her, though. That's really hard to stare down and be okay with. I can get into the supportive zone really easily and really well with her, and that's definitely something that she adores about me. I don't know if that's NOT just being blatantly codependent, though. I guess that's something I need to settle in my own head.

[Skip]

I don't know if that's NOT just being blatantly codependent, though. I guess that's something I need to settle in my own head.

You or her?

If you're trying to make sense of this, I'd open a thread an talk through some of the things that have been identified and overriding factors... .being a third party to a primary relationship, long distance relationships, divorce impact of relationship, etc.

Looking at the dynamics of each of these will give you a much more accurate picture of who and where she is and it will greatly help you relate to her.

I don't think she see things the way you think she sees them. You're evaluating it all with you and your relationship with her at the epicenter. These are not the epicenter right now and until you understand and embrace what it is an what it is all about, the two of you will be fencing.

[babyducks]

What Skip said about facing "what it is going to take and the levels of uncertainty you will be dealing with" reflects my experience so I can speak to that.   The practical reality is my partner has two serious mental illnesses.    They are controlled right now but I can not expect they will always be.  My partner also suffers from bipolar and when the mania gets out of control she can become psychotic.    We have planned for what happens when or if a psychotic break happens.  I have plans in place that I have not shared with her to protect both of us in case of a medication failure.  That is the nuts and bolts stuff that Skip was talking about as it applies to my situation.

For me,  I had to grieve the relationship I had hoped to have and face the the one I could have.

There are no quick fixes.      Being in a relationship with a person with a mental health issue is a daily commitment to playing the cards you are dealt.   Living in the now, accepting the now, both the good and bad is an important skill to cultivate.   What if's are not your friends.

It takes a great deal of time to create something of substance.   With or without BPD.    Regardless of what happens tomorrow in my relationship I have the sense that I will be allright.   I can accept the risks and the rewards that tomorrow might bring.  It's taken me a long time to get to that point.  I think I got there by doing what Skip suggested.  

[MapleBob]

I don't know if that's NOT just being blatantly codependent, though. I guess that's something I need to settle in my own head.

You or her? ... .

I don't think she see things the way you think she sees them. You're evaluating it all with you and your relationship with her at the epicenter. These are not the epicenter right now and until you understand and embrace what it is an what it is all about, the two of you will be fencing.

I was referring to me, that I'm displaying codependent behavior by settling for a friendship when what I really want is for her to re-engage romantically. And I'm probably trying to remain a viable candidate for future partnership while she works through getting clear of her ex-husband by being the guy who supports her and is there for her, only to have that result in me being used and discarded when I'm no longer valuable to her.

I know that I'm not at the epicenter anymore, and that hurts. I could do my own thing and hope that she comes around eventually once the life drama passes, but I have no reason to believe that is what's going to happen. It sounds like she and I will have a talk about "us" in a couple weeks. I just need to decide how to proceed with that right now.

[MapleBob]

It takes a great deal of time to create something of substance.   With or without BPD.    Regardless of what happens tomorrow in my relationship I have the sense that I will be allright.   I can accept the risks and the rewards that tomorrow might bring.  It's taken me a long time to get to that point.  I think I got there by doing what Skip suggested.  

I'd gladly put in the time and effort with her to figure out the nuts and bolts, and I'd go through the trial and error of finding the process that works for her. But she isn't giving me that opportunity. She's running and pushing away and (as said up thread) *doing* very little to keep me here.

[MapleBob]

And I'm still haunted by the "part of me wants to be allowed to love you", but "getting over being angry/sad is slowwwwww" and the other mixed messages I get. I know that when I press forward on that she runs and starts saying "I think we should just say goodbye", but ughhhhhh. I feel completely foolish for not just saying "cool then, see ya when I see ya," and sticking to it. 

[DreamGirl]

 

I don't think she see things the way you think she sees them. You're evaluating it all with you and your relationship with her at the epicenter.  

This is really what I think is hindering you in this.

I mean what are her priorities?

What are yours?

From where I'm standing and if I put myself in her shoes (empathetically as a woman whose been divorced, rebounded, and dealt with unresolved issues in a past relationship) I see it a certain way where priorities are more about her. Not so much a relationship. With anybody. She's also in the famous mid 30's not-really-mid-life-crisis that a lot of women face. The "I'm getting older and not having babies anymore and I feel 25 but I'm not 25... .and what am I doing with my life?" I went through it and have lots of girlfriends who find themselves here. It's kind of a selfish and weird place to be.

You are welcome in her life as long as your demands are low and you are not a stressor.

So... .you can continue to be that and be in her life. Once a month. In a phone call with limits.

Or you can tell her that you want more and expect more.

And she'll decide that... .

[MapleBob]

I don't think she see things the way you think she sees them. You're evaluating it all with you and your relationship with her at the epicenter.  

This is really what I think is hindering you in this.

I mean what are her priorities?

What are yours?

You are welcome in her life as long as your demands are low and you are not a stressor.

So... .you can continue to be that and be in her life. Once a month. In a phone call with limits.

Or you can tell her that you want more and expect more.

And she'll decide that... .

Her priorities right now are her own mental health, and getting to a better place in her relationship with her ex-husband where she feels free to make those "what am I doing with my life?" decisions. That's pretty clear. She's definitely assessing her life, and I've heard lots about it. She literally had an Instagram post not too long ago with a joke about Spotify suggesting "here's the soundtrack to your mid-life crisis"! But she's assessing it without me in the picture. I'm starting to wonder if I was her last-ditch-effort "maybe somebody else can make this work for me" guy, and that me sticking around to hold her accountable and try to help clean up the mess and fix things solidified her decision to go it alone for a while. I think she looks at me being willing and able and helpful and compares it to herself and probably feels like garbage about her inability to reciprocate.

And you're right, it's "don't cause me any trouble and I'll deign to connect with you on my own terms." Even when I'm fun and casual and non-pressuring and validating and supportive and freaking awesome to her, it doesn't move things forward. I do want more, I do expect more. And I also don't want to lose her. She might come around once this work is done, but that's out of my control. I'm thinking real hard today about hurrying up this next talk with her and giving some ultimatums, but that sucks too! There are no good options here, except to settle. And settle hard. And "find hope in a hopeless place", as that dumb song says.

I don't feel encouraged to stay by her, I feel encouraged to leave.

[DreamGirl]

Maybe it doesn't need to be black and white, "Should I stay or should I go?" (You have your song references, and I have The Clash song references   )

A lot of times it's accepting things as they are right now. Six months from now things could be different. Or the same.

Accept that what she's willing to give you right now is what it is. (Your ultimatums probably won't change that.)  

Accept that it's not enough for you. (Will her ultimatum of you accepting what she's willing to give change that for you?)

The thing is... .

It doesn't mean you jump off the bridge. It just means that she's willing to call you once a month.

And you decide where you go from here. What you do in the meantime is up to you. Do you hang on for dear life? Do you let the chips fall where they may? Allow space for her and you? Expect the worst, hope for the best? Grieve the relationship (if it fails) without cutting it off at the knees?

Or... .?

[MapleBob]

Maybe it doesn't need to be black and white, "Should I stay or should I go?" (You have your song references, and I have The Clash song references   )

A lot of times it's accepting things as they are right now. Six months from now things could be different. Or the same.

Accept that what she's willing to give you right now is what it is. (Your ultimatums probably won't change that.)  

Accept that it's not enough for you. (Will her ultimatum of you accepting what she's willing to give change that for you?)

The thing is... .

It doesn't mean you jump off the bridge. It just means that she's willing to call you once a month.

I hear you about having patience and taking the middle road, but it's getting to the point where talking once a month is too often to let go, and not often enough to hold on without ANY encouragement from her to do so. How I went from being hopelessly embarrassingly clung to to being priority zero I'll probably never understand.

[DreamGirl]

I hear you about having patience and taking the middle road, but it's getting to the point where talking once a month is too often to let go, and not often enough to hold on without ANY encouragement from her to do so. How I went from being hopelessly embarrassingly clung to to being priority zero I'll probably never understand.

Rejection sucks.

It's fundamentally knowing that "I'm not enough for her" but instead feeling like "I'm not enough."

Dissecting these situations (the way you already are doing that here) is really good for the soul. We get in these relationships for a reason. We put up with things most people don't for a reason.

All I'm saying is I don't think showing your cards at this point will help you win. I also don't think that folding (cutting it off completely) will exactly be helpful either.

It might be a place to usurp what it is that you're willing to be for her too. What are your values/boundaries in this? What are you compromising at this point? i.e. Talking (therapeutically) about her ex would be off-limits for me (and for most people). Not only am I not properly equipped -- I don't want to. Blech. That's what her therapist is for.   

You're completely caught up in the emotions of this all. We're human, it's what we do.

That's the beauty of this forum. We get to be the emotional messes and allow others to step in and help show us the reality. It's why Skip's suggestion of starting a thread about your relationship and how it played out (Long distance/still married/rebounding) is such a good one. It allows us a bird's eye view of what we did and how we got to the place we're in. Dissecting it to better understand all the roles of all the players allows us to move on. Learn from it. So we don't do it again.

With this partner or maybe the next one.

Hope is what you make of it. Maybe the relationship is hopeless. Maybe it's not even about the relationship as much is it really is about you.

[MapleBob]

Oh I'm certainly learning my lessons! And I won't forget them. The super frustrating part is that I feel like screaming "I get it now! We can make this better! Let's at least try! Meet with me, it's worth it!", but she is NOT there. And, if anything, she's just telling me over and over again to forget about it. And also passively NOT to forget about it.

[Skip]

And you're right, it's "don't cause me any trouble and I'll deign to connect with you on my own terms."

She is not saying this, bob. She senses that this would be unfair, so she is releasing you.  This is the mixed message you are struggling with. But its not that mixed. It sounds like "Mr. Maple, I still care about you, but I'm at a mixed up place in my life and I am overwhelmed trying to sort out was is and what is not with respect to my existing family, and my own mental health".

You can't change this. Your efforts to do so make the situation worse. This is driving you crazy.  I think we all have been there a one time or another.

If you take all the pressure off and stop over-pursuing it will help. You've backed it off a bit, but I'm sure she is being very careful not to show any green light for fear you will come running over the border and she will have more to deal with. You are going to need to back away further and longer before she feels its safe to give you any positive responses.

The backing away, however, needs to be benign. "Not, I'll wait for you till the end of time" (Meatloaf) or "I'm already gone" (Eagles).  It's a fine line to walk.

Emotions are impulsive. She's impulsive. Things could clear up with hubby, there could be 6 straight days of sunshine, and then her thinking, I haven't heard much from "Maple man" lately, I hope he's not gone... .

  ... .and then the journey of rebuilding starts.

There are downsides, too. She may actually be struggling to lose the hubby. Couples can reconcile in divorce - especially when they see what they are losing.

This is really hard stuff, bob. No one want to feel helpless or having no control. Anyone would be frustrated.

Have you thought about marking this as a uncommitted relationship and exploring more than one option at the same time?

[MapleBob]

She's not going to reconcile with her husband. That just is NOT going to happen.

Should I give her a "soft" goodbye and then just give her all the space? It seems like that's maybe the right move. "I feel like I'm getting in your way, and that you've been telling me that, and that I haven't been hearing that. I'm hearing it now, so please feel free to be in touch with me if/when you're ready to DO some kind of relationship with me that has room to grow." ?

[flourdust]

She's not going to reconcile with her husband. That just is NOT going to happen.

Should I give her a "soft" goodbye and then just give her all the space? It seems like that's maybe the right move. "I feel like I'm getting in your way, and that you've been telling me that, and that I haven't been hearing that. I'm hearing it now, so please feel free to be in touch with me if/when you're ready to DO some kind of relationship with me that has room to grow." ?

No. No no no. You need to not make it about you and your desire.

This is what I would say. "Hey, I can tell you've got a lot on your plate now. I'll give you your space. I'm thinking of you and hoping for the best -- good luck with all the difficult stuff going on in your life. Feel free to connect with me some time if you ever want to chat."

The end. Genuine concern for her well-being. No obligation. No expectation. And no manipulation!

[MapleBob]

No. No no no. You need to not make it about you and your desire.

I hear you, flourdust, but this statement brings up a vent for me that I need to vent, which I hope you don't take personally, because I value what you're saying here. So, proceed venting mode:

When is it ever going to be able to be about my needs and desires? I have them! They're hard to ignore! Relationships are supposed to meet both people's needs, at least a majority of the time. I don't think it's unhealthy to say that I'm dissatisfied AND that I'm open to hearing from her when she feels like she has an increased capacity to meet my standards for even a friendship. My standards are NOT insane! "Reach out to me when you don't feel obligated to do so, so that I feel like I'm actually important to you. Make time and space and effort to spend time with me occasionally. Invest *something*!"

I've heard in this thread: "Put the disorder aside, what is she doing from the perspective of a *non* to maintain your relationship?" and I say "not a whole lot" - and then I'm hearing "Well, she's disordered and consumed by life stuff, what do you expect? Forget your needs! Validate and meet hers!" It's frustrating! It's one-sided! I don't want relationships like that! I need some give and take! I'm capable of flexibility, I'm capable of giving her time and space, but how much space does she expect to be able to get and still have a relationship with me of any kind? Does she just literally not care about that?

Okay, venting over. Now I can say: You're right, flourdust, I need to be the adult here, and to be the one who has grace under pressure. It's just HARD. And it feels hopeless to expect that my bare-minimum needs will EVER be met by this relationship, no matter what I do.

[Skip]

Forget your needs! Validate and meet hers!" It's frustrating! It's one-sided!

Don't forget about your needs. The minute this detrimental or isn't working for you, let go and move on. I don't think anyone is suggesting you sacrifice yourself here - I know I made that point a few times. The point is that you can't compel her to make you a priority or to commit to you.

I do, however, get your frustration. I think we all do. There are many love songs written about this.

[Lifewriter16]

The topic of discussion has reached it's post limit and is now locked. You are welcome with starting a new or similar topic of discussion. Thank you all for participating.