The chaos in their heads, the anger and frustration

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I found looking around this forum to be deeply sobering:

www.phsycforums.com/borderline-personality/

I will return here when I start thinking that we could have "talked it out" somehow... .no. Not nearly that simple.

This thread especially breaks my heart with its confusion of anger and shame.

www.psycforums.com/borderline-personality/topic17227.html



Mod note: Links inactivated per guideline: https://bpdfamily.com/content/terms-service#Outside

[steelwork]

I found looking around this forum to be deeply sobering:

www.phsycforums.com/borderline-personality/

I will return here when I start thinking that we could have "talked it out" somehow... .no. Not nearly that simple.

This thread especially breaks my heart with its confusion of anger and shame.

www.psycforums.com/borderline-personality/topic17227.html



Mod note: Links inactivated per guideline: https://bpdfamily.com/content/terms-service#Outside

[CollateralDamage]

Extremely enlightening! Thank you

[C.Stein]

I find that forum difficult to read as I see a lot of people enabling each other and trying to justify behavior that even they will admit is wrong at times.  It is however enlightening to see the thought process. 

[Schermarhorn]

The question is, is this the truth or is this more manipulation?

I question everything now.

[steelwork]

The question is, is this the truth or is this more manipulation?

I question everything now.

Who would these people be trying to manipulate on an anonymous forum?

I do think I have less of a tendency to see BPD as an expression of some kind of personal evil. I see a lot of thought distortion and fear.

Also a lot of bravery on that forum--people really trying to find the truth that lives beyond their emotions. Not everyone, but many.

[Schermarhorn]

The question is, is this the truth or is this more manipulation?

I question everything now.

Who would these people be trying to manipulate on an anonymous forum?

I do think I have less of a tendency to see BPD as an expression of some kind of personal evil. I see a lot of thought distortion and fear.

Also a lot of bravery on that forum--people really trying to find the truth that lives beyond their emotions. Not everyone, but many.

Sympathy.

Maybe I am just jaded.

[steelwork]

Sympathy.

Maybe I am just jaded.

Who knows... .maybe I'm just naive!

I read something like this:

"When I become emotionally attached to someone, I want to talk to them all the time. For example, if someone tells me they are busy and can't talk to me, I get VERY internally angry. I feel as though they are being unfair, and in my head I'm like 'fine then, you'll be sorry when I'm dead' and I just don't know why I am experiencing this at all! I hate it yet it is uncontrollable."

and I see a confused, hurt person taking an honest look at him/herself. I suppose it could be a manipulative play for sympathy, but then couldn't you say the same thing about everyone who posts on THIS forum?

[C.Stein]

I suppose it could be a manipulative play for sympathy, but then couldn't you say the same thing about everyone who posts on THIS forum?

Perhaps you could say that.  I for one came here looking for answers and support in trying to figure out what the hell happened and how to deal with it internally.   I don't need sympathy, I need answers.

[steelwork]

I suppose it could be a manipulative play for sympathy, but then couldn't you say the same thing about everyone who posts on THIS forum?

Perhaps you could say that.  I for one came here looking for answers and support in trying to figure out what the hell happened and how to deal with it internally.   I don't need sympathy, I need answers.

I don't think they're any different.

[enlighten me]

The question is, is this the truth or is this more manipulation?

I question everything now.

Who would these people be trying to manipulate on an anonymous forum?

Its not a case of manipulation more of a case of how much they are comfortable to admit to. My ex wife even in therapy couldn't admit what she had done. By even admitting something on an anonymous forum you are accepting your part in it and for some they cannot do that.

[steelwork]

In any case, I posted the link because I think there's a lot of insight to be gained (should you want to) from seeing how people suffering from BPD perceive the relationships they're in.

[Moselle]

Thank you for posting them. They have given me some insight. I noticed how they gloss over the damage or cruelty very quickly. It's like they don't recognise the damage they inflict on others or that's it's completely unjustified. 

[steelwork]

Thank you for posting them. They have given me some insight. I noticed how they gloss over the damage or cruelty very quickly. It's like they don't recognise the damage they inflict on others or that's it's completely unjustified. 

Yeah. I read somewhere that PBD does not mean "no empathy" -- it's more like there's so much noise going on, so much turmoil, that the truth of what they're doing to other people doesn't get through.

[Learning Fast]

Another thing to consider after reading these threads (and others on Psych Forum) is that the majority of those who post on PS have some awareness of their behavior, realize that something isn't right and in many cases have been diagnosed.  Additionally, just the fact that they have sought answers for their behavior issues indicates (and for them to post on PS) that at some level they can acknowledge that something is wrong.

Many of us have exes who were undiagnosed.  Do you think that they ever inquired online about their behavior?  Or can we assume that they consider their behavior normal?  In other words, how aware do we think the undiagnosed are?

[Learning Fast]

Meant "PF" not "PS".

[C.Stein]

Another thing to consider after reading these threads (and others on Psych Forum) is that the majority of those who post on PS have some awareness of their behavior, realize that something isn't right and in many cases have been diagnosed.  Additionally, just the fact that they have sought answers for their behavior issues indicates (and for them to post on PS) that at some level they can acknowledge that something is wrong.

Many of us have exes who were undiagnosed.  :)o you think that they ever inquired online about their behavior?  Or can we assume that they consider their behavior normal?  In other words, how aware do we think the undiagnosed are?

If they don't know what is wrong with them and they just think they are screwed up then there is no reason for them to look for answers.  My ex just accepted that she was screwed up (her words).  

I did alert her to my suspicions that she might be suffering from BPD.  I do hope she read the email and seeks a valid professional diagnosis.  Only good things can come from knowing if you are suffering from a PD and take the necessary steps to mitigate the disorder.  

Chances are better than not even if she did read the email she will deny it is true and will not seek a professional evaluation.  That said, it will still be in her mind and at some point she may finally realize she needs to find out one way or the other.  Hopefully that realization will not come to late.

There is also the very good chance it will become her go to excuse for all the hurtful and unacceptable behavior.   Unfortunately I feel this may be the more likely outcome.

[SummerStorm]

Thank you for posting them. They have given me some insight. I noticed how they gloss over the damage or cruelty very quickly. It's like they don't recognise the damage they inflict on others or that's it's completely unjustified. 

Yeah. I read somewhere that PBD does not mean "no empathy" -- it's more like there's so much noise going on, so much turmoil, that the truth of what they're doing to other people doesn't get through.

Yes, I would definitely agree with this.  I don't think I've ever seen my pwBPD truly at peace.  Even when she's sleeping, there is a storm brewing inside her. 

[Learning Fast]

C. Stein,

Mine knew that something wasn't quite right with her.  During moments of clarity she would describe herself as "vulnerable", "sensitive" and "selfish".  She always had a vacant and almost lifeless look on her face whenever this would come up.  Trying to take one of these conversations any further was futile as she always ended any discussion with "I'm fine".

LF

[C.Stein]

C. Stein,

Mine knew that something wasn't quite right with her.  :)uring moments of clarity she would describe herself as "vulnerable", "sensitive" and "selfish".  She always had a vacant and almost lifeless look on her face whenever this would come up.  Trying to take one of these conversations any further was futile as she always ended any discussion with "I'm fine".

LF

Mine was also capable of self-awareness.  The problem was she couldn't sustain it.  She could recognize parts of herself that she despised but couldn't really keep the self-awareness active in order to prevent those parts of her that caused all the hurtful behavior.  This is where I think some gentle guidance would have been helpful to keep her more self-aware of her actions and potential consequences.  She has a problem with acting without thinking of the consequences first.

[Mr Hollande]

Thank you for posting them. They have given me some insight. I noticed how they gloss over the damage or cruelty very quickly. It's like they don't recognise the damage they inflict on others or that's it's completely unjustified.

I found the thread very useful but similar to you I also think their confessions are limited to "cruel words" but I see no mention of their actions. I guess someone with BPD even admitting to as much as they do in that thread is a big step for them.

[hope2727]

C. Stein,

Mine knew that something wasn't quite right with her.  :)uring moments of clarity she would describe herself as "vulnerable", "sensitive" and "selfish".  She always had a vacant and almost lifeless look on her face whenever this would come up.  Trying to take one of these conversations any further was futile as she always ended any discussion with "I'm fine".

LF

Mine was also capable of self-awareness.  The problem was she couldn't sustain it.  She could recognize parts of herself that she despised but couldn't really keep the self-awareness active in order to prevent those parts of her that caused all the hurtful behavior.  This is where I think some gentle guidance would have been helpful to keep her more self-aware of her actions and potential consequences.  She has a problem with acting without thinking of the consequences first.

This really struck a cord with me. Mine too was insightful but couldn't sustain the changes. He talked a good talk but couldn't walk a line. So sad. Those links were helpful thank you. It breaks my heart to think of how much my ex suffers. I wish he could know how loved he really is.

[Learning Fast]

Hope,

I'm with you on this one.  There were a couple of potential breakthrough moments but they were fleeting at best.  I was so hopeful--- "She finally gets it!".

I remember once she told me "You're like a therapist in the way you've helped me learn about myself".  Unfortunately actions never followed words--she reverted back to her old self as soon as the current crisis passed.

It is so sad.  On so many levels these are folks who have a lot to offer.  The golden key is right in front of them but they just can't grasp it.  I as well she could realize how much that she is loved by many.  It's heartbreaking.

LF

[Moselle]

Many of us have exes who were undiagnosed.  Do you think that they ever inquired online about their behavior?  Or can we assume that they consider their behavior normal?  In other words, how aware do we think the undiagnosed are?

Very good question. My wife is fully aware of what she is. She also chooses to ignore it. And blows it off as a joke. Mine used to be physically violent. She is trying to be my friend and meet up at the moment, which I completely ignore. She said in a reference to her violent behaviour. "I promise to keep my hands in my pockets" with a big smily face.

She laughs her behaviour off as nothing, which I also picked up on that PF. Cruelty and abuse of others seems justified to them. Even if it's to their children. That's a sociopathic trait, is it not?

[hashtag_loyal]

Who would these people be trying to manipulate on an anonymous forum?

Themselves

[steelwork]

Who would these people be trying to manipulate on an anonymous forum?

Themselves

I think we're all here because we want to detach from painful relationships in which we feel BPD played a role. I found on that forum a lot of evidence of people grappling with the illness, trying to sort through their distorted thoughts and out-of-control emotions. Sometimes people downplay or fail to see the way they've hurt other people. That's a shame, but I guess if you are seeking validation for YOUR feelings it's not the place to look. Just as this would not be the plAce for someone with BPD to find validation. There is not a psych forum anywhere where you won't find sufferers foregrounding their own pain because they're hoping for understanding and even sympathy.

Yes, people with BPD suffer from an illness. Isn't that the premise of this whole website?

I find that compassion and perspective-taking helps me. I feel less like a hated person. Less like it was all my delusion.

Maybe bitterness helps you.

I'm truly sorry you were hurt.

Please don't invalidate me.

[steelwork]

Furthermore, someone show me where this person is manipulating herself or anyone else in what she writes:

www.psycforums.com/borderline-personality/topic17871.html



Mod note: Links inactivated per guideline: https://bpdfamily.com/content/terms-service#Outside

[steelwork]

Many of us have exes who were undiagnosed.  Do you think that they ever inquired online about their behavior?  Or can we assume that they consider their behavior normal?  In other words, how aware do we think the undiagnosed are?

It's a good question--surely there's a whole range?

I strongly suspect my ex knows what's up--based on his interest in psychology and the fact that he's in therapy and certain things he said after the first freeze-out--about abandonment issues, for example. Also, his ex-wife was diagnosed w BPD. I think it's a case of men manifesting different BPD behavior and thus not being given that diagnosis. But he knows he's dealing with abandonment and anger and general lack of emotional control. It's the projecting and thought disorder I wonder about. Does he see those? Well, I'm not gonna ask!

[JaneStorm]

Many of us have exes who were undiagnosed.  Do you think that they ever inquired online about their behavior?  Or can we assume that they consider their behavior normal?  In other words, how aware do we think the undiagnosed are?

It's a good question--surely there's a whole range?

I strongly suspect my ex knows what's up--based on his interest in psychology and the fact that he's in therapy and certain things he said after the first freeze-out--about abandonment issues, for example. Also, his ex-wife was diagnosed w BPD. I think it's a case of men manifesting different BPD behavior and thus not being given that diagnosis. But he knows he's dealing with abandonment and anger and general lack of emotional control. It's the projecting and thought disorder I wonder about. Does he see those? Well, I'm not gonna ask!

It wasn't until I was at wit's end and began researching did I read VERBATIM the same words he would say to me about himself. I can't even think of it as deceit; just sad that he can't face it.

[Moselle]

Mine came to me two years ago with the 9 symptoms and said "Have a look at this. I think I'm BPD" I read them and ticked off 7, and said " I agree"

1 week later she said "I don't know what you're taking about. Stop diagnosing me with BPD"

1 week after that was " There's nothing wrong with me".

They read up and they know. But they admit it when it suits them, or in rare moments of clarity.

[JaneStorm]

Mine came to me two years ago with the 9 symptoms and said "Have a look at this. I think I'm BPD" I read them and ticked off 7, and said " I agree"

1 week later she said "I don't know what you're taking about. Stop diagnosing me with BPD"

1 week after that was " There's nothing wrong with me".

They read up and they know. But they admit it when it suits them, or in rare moments of clarity.

Mad house.