I have whittled down the reconcile letter somewhat

[Should I stay or...]

Hey C,

We don't have all the answers here and ultimately you'll do what you need to do to make yourself happy. 

Knowing your story, nothing else matters, if she's a Bp, but your last harsh email to her, "You're' dead to me."

You're relationship is over in her mind, you're trying to resuscitate it with someone that you painted black by your words.

My suggestions all along is to stay NC, because a non-reply by her will set you back. But if you do, listen to those that are guiding you now... .The I in I'm sorry would go along way... .

Dear:

I'm sorry that I sent my last email it was hurtful and childish, you mean everything to me.

Please forgive me, I'm sorry.

Happy Holidays to you and your family,

All my love, CStein

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Skip]

The I in I'm sorry would go along way... .

[guy4caligirl]

Hey C,

We don't have all the answers here and ultimately you'll do what you need to do to make yourself happy. 

Knowing your story, nothing else matters, if she's a Bp, but your last harsh email to her, "You're' dead to me."

You're relationship is over in her mind, you're trying to resuscitate it with someone that you painted black by your words.

My suggestions all along is to stay NC, because a non-reply by her will set you back. But if you do, listen to those that are guiding you now... .The I in I'm sorry would go along way... .

Dear:

I'm sorry that I sent my last email it was hurtful and childish, you mean everything to me.

Please forgive me, I'm sorry.

Happy Holidays to you and your family,

All my love, CStein

Very well said Should I stay !

[Should I stay or...]

thank you guy4... .been following your story too... .she's back!

[C.Stein]

I'm a big fan of writing letters (in google docs) and then editing them down.  Most never get sent.  It is a great way to work things out.

Focus on what patientandclear said about not everything needing to be (actually) said.  Consider that those things need to be said (to yourself) and experience those feelings (for yourself).

Focus on Skip's suggestion to plant a seed.  Let that analogy take hold.  I'm 5th generation in a farming family.  There are many times it takes several years to get a field "right" again to grow good crops.  

If you really want to send her a note.  Consider a couple options.

1.  "I wish our time together had not ended.  I'll be in your area this coming Friday and hope you can join me for a beer."

how does this version seem different.

2.  "I'll be in your area this coming Friday and hope you can join me for a beer."


Try to put yourself in the shoes of someone that has written things to you in the past about r/s being over.  Which of the above notes would seem less threatening?

Which of the above notes do you think have the best chance of success?

FF

Two is the better option by far and it would be preferable in cases where there has been complete detachment and the possibility of "friends" is a real one.  If this were a year down the road and texting was an option I would take this route without question.  We are only 4 months out, this is still very raw for me and could be for her too.  

I don't know how she feels at the moment, but when we said goodbye she clearly was holding onto some resentment and anger at the 2 month out mark (little over 4 months out now).  I had good reason to believe at that time she also was holding onto some feelings for me.  Subtle reactions to what I was saying and doing the last time I saw her gave me this impression.  In addition to that I am almost 100% certain she was still sleeping with the teddy bear I gave her.  This is not something one would expect from someone who has "moved on" or is in a new relationship.

I really do understand what you guys are getting at here and I agree that in most cases this would be the preferable route and may be in this case too, I'm just not convinced it is.   I just don't believe a request to get together for coffee will register with her, but I could be wrong.  If she is in a new relationship of course it won't matter anyhow.  It is difficult enough to crawl inside a non's head and try to figure out what will work let alone a pwBPD.   For a balanced person short and light will always be the preferred route to take.

I am almost certain my ex will summarily reject a message like that ... .it will be instantly deleted not only from her computer but also her mind.  It simply is too short and impersonal and she will probably see it as a lame attempt to hook up with her.  One of the things she told me close to the end was she was beginning to hate texting because it was too impersonal.  She also told me she has nothing to talk to me about and doesn't want to get into anymore discussions.  

Last time I saw her she was not interested in having any further contact with me at all, even as friends in the future.  I already pitched the idea that we start over again when we said goodbye ... .that was immediately dismissed in her "never again" tone of voice.   If she is to change her mind there will need to be a fundamental shift in thinking for her.   How does one go about setting that in motion?

I also see the danger in being too personal.  Again ... .second guessing ... .I can't cover every possible scenario in a single email.

With the suggestions I have been getting over the three threads I have been working on this the letter has been reduced in size/content by about 95% and I have tired to keep it simple, but with enough personality to appeal to her heart.  I can see how it might still be too much emotion.

The seed I am trying to plant is that our relationship doesn't necessarily have to be over and maybe we could make it work.  For her to realize this it will take some self reflection on her part, which she may not be capable of doing or even want to do.  If there is no hope at reconciliation then I would like the email to also be a release for her.  I want her to know that I am letting go of the anger and resentment I feel towards her.  This will provide her with some relief I think.  Even if I never get an audience, at least I can give her that.

These are beautifully written notes and expressions. Writing them has great healing power.

Thank you skip, this exercise has helped get me much closer to letting her go.  So close that I question if reconciliation is what I want here.  I do deeply love her, that goes without saying, but she emotionally destroyed me and it has taken a heavy toll on me in many different ways.  If I throw myself back into the frey it could send me to an early grave.  That said, she does have the potential to be so much more, I just don't know if she is capable of participating in a healthy relationship on a consistent basis.  I believe with some changes in me and how I behave towards her it could be significantly better but there are core issues that can only be addressed by her and I don't know if she can/will ever address them.

C.Stein, when you're writing to yourself, as you say you have in the note, those are best kept here. All of your drafts have been incredibly heartfelt. I can feel all that emotion, we all can - my heart goes out to you with great compassion. I remember those painful feelings myself. Did you ever watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKXQ1nf_Yl8 - it reminds me of your writing.

Pink Floyd is my favorite band.  That might explain my writing to some extent.

I'd tap my Scotty Peck empathy skills. Think about where her freight train is on the track and write to that. She is not in mourning - she told you this, she has moved past it.

This is the problem I am having here Skip.  I don't know if she is mourning or not.  What she says doesn't necessarily reflect how she is feeling, this much I know about her.  I can say with certainty though, if she is in a new relationship she is not mourning.  A new relationship is almost a certainty at this point (some new possible indicators in the past week).  Getting together with her to talk if she does have a new BF will only result in a MASSIVE setback for me.  It won't matter what is said or what we talk about.  When she moves there will be no more opportunity to get together with her ... .my window of opportunity is quickly closing here.

To add to the draft concepts from formflier and others have shared, here is another one (example only - not a draft)

Allison, I wanted to wish you and your family a Merry Christmas. I'm headed to Boston to celebrate with the family. I was looking at my last email to you and I wanted to apologize for the things I said - I was hurt and lashing out - it was wrong.

Anyway << say something here that she has a found memory of>>, <<make an action statement>>, <<tell her something great about her (pick one)>>

Merry Christmas, Klien

I'll draft up something that is less personal.

[formflier]

   For a balanced person short and light will always be the preferred route to take.

       I also think this could apply to other types of people, such as pwBPD.   

  I want her to know that I am letting go of the anger and resentment I feel towards her.  This will provide her with some relief I think.  Even if I never get an audience, at least I can give her that.

        I would skip letting her know that you had, have, or have let go of any anger or resentment.  Bringing that up will most likely bring up negative memories for her.  I doubt it would provide any relief.  More likely, if she spends any time at all on it, the reaction would be something along the lines of "Oh, so he thinks he has reason to be angry with me?"        

FF

[guy4caligirl]

 

If the question is just about how to reach out, I've been right where you are. I would recommend keeping it short, be sincere, tell her you miss her and are open to reconnecting if she is open to it, express regret for the ways you hurt her and maybe just a bit of optimism about a happier future, vaguely defined.  :)on't push, definitely don't beg, and leave it up to her.

It's a hard spot to be in, but your strength, clarity of values, sincerity and openness for a reconnection, are your best attributes, and she'll either realize it... .now or in the future ... .She will ... .

Chump .

I do agree from my own experience that is the healthiest and most effective way to proceed .I might add a 6 weeks NC (SKIP ) or more , will do you both great .

I have wrote her many harsh letters also and many members did at that horrible time ,I don't think this something you need to worry about now ,don't you think she also knows her own contribution in the failure of the R/S she does but won't tell  you  .

You are familiar with my situation right now C Stein and you know where I am at right now ... .Hope is necessary in these hard times .  

Guy .

[C.Stein]

Hey C,

We don't have all the answers here and ultimately you'll do what you need to do to make yourself happy.  

Knowing your story, nothing else matters, if she's a Bp, but your last harsh email to her, "You're' dead to me."

You're relationship is over in her mind, you're trying to resuscitate it with someone that you painted black by your words.

My suggestions all along is to stay NC, because a non-reply by her will set you back. But if you do, listen to those that are guiding you now... .The I in I'm sorry would go along way... .

Dear:

I'm sorry that I sent my last email it was hurtful and childish, you mean everything to me.

Please forgive me, I'm sorry.

Happy Holidays to you and your family,

All my love, CStein

Yes, I scorched the earth in that last email.  For all intents and purposes, if I take her email to me at face value, which I did at the time I wrote that, she is dead to me.   As much as that might sound it came from anger, it didn't.  I thought long and hard about putting that line in the email.  If I need to be painted black until the end of time in order for her to understand how her behavior impacts those closest to her then so be it.  At least she will have a chance at being happy if she can find the inner strength to stop doing the things that drive the people she loves away from her.

There is a good chance she didn't read the email.  I don't even know if she got it to be honest.  

What she did with the email in descending order of likelihood assuming she got it.

1) She opened it and read until she saw something she didn't like.

2) She skimmed the entire email.

3) She deleted it without ever opening it.

I might note that 1 and 3 could be reversed if she is in a new relationship.

[C.Stein]

  For a balanced person short and light will always be the preferred route to take.

I also think this could apply to other types of people, such as pwBPD.  

I agree.  Would you think that individual circumstances might dictate a different approach?

 I want her to know that I am letting go of the anger and resentment I feel towards her.  This will provide her with some relief I think.  Even if I never get an audience, at least I can give her that.

I would skip letting her know that you had, have, or have let go of any anger or resentment.  Bringing that up will most likely bring up negative memories for her.  I doubt it would provide any relief.  More likely, if she spends any time at all on it, the reaction would be something along the lines of "Oh, so he thinks he has reason to be angry with me?"

She knows I have a very good reason to be angry with her, especially if she did have an emotional affair and the real reason she discarded me was because I had been replaced.  

I agree I don't want to create a negative trigger though.

[Should I stay or...]

What she did with the email in descending order of likelihood assuming she got it.

1) She opened it and read until she saw something she didn't like.

2) She skimmed the entire email.

3) She deleted it without ever opening it.

I might note that 1 and 3 could be reversed if she is in a new relationship.

Don't over think this; if any of the above happened then go NC because she doesn't want to talk right now... .and if she did read your email, you know what to do.

A short I'm sorry note... .

[Should I stay or...]

What she did with the email in descending order of likelihood assuming she got it.

1) She opened it and read until she saw something she didn't like.

2) She skimmed the entire email.

3) She deleted it without ever opening it.

I might note that 1 and 3 could be reversed if she is in a new relationship.

Don't over think this; if any of the above happened then go NC because she doesn't want to talk right now... .and if she did read your email, you know what to do.

A short I'm sorry note... .

Dear:

If you had read my last email it was hurtful and childish and I'm sorry. If you haven't, I just wanted you to know that you mean everything to me.

Happy Holidays to you and your family,

All my love, CStein

[C.Stein]

What she did with the email in descending order of likelihood assuming she got it.

1) She opened it and read until she saw something she didn't like.

2) She skimmed the entire email.

3) She deleted it without ever opening it.

I might note that 1 and 3 could be reversed if she is in a new relationship.

Don't over think this; if any of the above happened then go NC because she doesn't want to talk right now... .and if she did read your email, you know what to do.

A short I'm sorry note... .

Yes, but I'm not sorry I wrote it.  One thing she always valued about me was my honesty and I have always tried to be objective about it.  Would that email be hard for her to read ... .you bet it would ... .it would be hard for anyone to read.  Hard or not, she deserves honesty.

The email I finally did send was the last of many drafts.  The initial ones were definitely coming from a place of anger and not objectivity.  There still was an undertone of resentment which is understandable all considering. 

[C.Stein]

don't you think she also knows her own contribution in the failure of the R/S she does but won't tell  you  .

She knows ... .but she will probably never admit it or take responsibility for it.  I have received no apologies, no admission of wrong doing, no display of guilt or remorse, not even a hint of empathy or compassion from her since the relationship ended ... .NOTHING!

When we said goodbye one thing she said ... .I know you are hurting ... .NOT ... .I'm sorry you are hurting.  :)oes that pretty much sum up her ability to empathize?  

[formflier]

  I would find some time to think about honesty (which is a great value) and respect for others feelings (which is another great value)  I would challenge you to find ways to say things directly and clearly (so you can be honest), but also that respects others feelings.  It can be a tough thing to balance, but it is worth the effort.        

FF

[C.Stein]

Dear:

If you had read my last email it was hurtful and childish and I'm sorry. If you haven't, I just wanted you to know that you mean everything to me.

Happy Holidays to you and your family,

All my love, CStein

Yea, that type of note will never pass my "lips" and it would be disingenuous of me to write it.  If she is in a new relationship (very very good chance) and she did have an "affair" while we were still together then everything I said in that email is a true reflection of my feelings, not from a place of anger but my actual feelings about her.  Much of it is still how I feel regardless of an affair or not.   If she did have an affair, then she scorched the earth.  I can forgive her but I will never forget.

[C.Stein]

I would find some time to think about honesty (which is a great value) and respect for others feelings (which is another great value)

I would challenge you to find ways to say things directly and clearly (so you can be honest), but also that respects others feelings.

It can be a tough thing to balance, but it is worth the effort.

Good point and I whole heartedly agree that peoples feelings should always be considered.  That said, sometimes the truth hurts but it still needs to be expressed.

Certainly I could have been more tactful about it so that is something I kinda regret.  I did tone it down substantially.   My "closure" letter was much better balanced with respect to honesty/feelings than my last email.

[guy4caligirl]

don't you think she also knows her own contribution in the failure of the R/S she does but won't tell  you  .

She knows ... .but she will probably never admit it or take responsibility for it.  I have received no apologies, no admission of wrong doing, no display of guilt or remorse, not even a hint of empathy or compassion from her since the relationship ended ... .NOTHING!

When we said goodbye one thing she said ... .I know you are hurting ... .NOT ... .I'm sorry you are hurting.  :)oes that pretty much sum up her ability to empathize?  

Most of them do that if it's not all of them .

Believe me C ,there will come a day that she will converse with you like nothing happened just like me now , you are putting a lot of thoughts in it but believe me, it's process of detaching healing etc  ,from her toxicity she injected in you .

I can tell you don't read into it like all members did me last November when  my wounds were open raw , I had to experience it with a lot of pain , now I am about perhaps to reconcile, I am not buying it that she is coming next week , but I feel cool and no pain if she does good if not I Cant do $... .t  

[C.Stein]

Believe me C ,there will come a day that she will converse with you like nothing happened just like me now

To be honest guy, I don't think that day will ever come.  The fact that she couldn't apologize or admit any wrong doing is in itself proof that she knows what she did was wrong.   When/if she moves she will be gone forever, this much I am certain of.  Her own guilt and shame and fear of rejection will prevent her from contacting me.   My last email seriously reinforced those feelings.

This is why this email I am drafting here in this thread is so important.

She has no problem apologizing for insignificant things and even has apologized for misc. stuff that wasn't her fault.  However, when it came to her behavior and hurting me, not only did she have a problem with apologizing for hurting me, but also with taking responsibility for hurting me.  Apologies from her  (sincere or not) only addressed what she did, not the consequences of what she did.   There were only a few times when she actually apologized for hurting me.

I had to experience it with a lot of pain , now I am about perhaps to reconcile, I am not buying it that she is coming next week , but I feel cool and no pain if she does good if not I Cant do $... .t  

Proceed with extreme caution guy.