Thinking that I am a bad person after all

[blackbirdsong]

Ok, this is not a topic where I want you to tell my: "No, blackbirdsong, you are a great person! Keep it up"

I want to share some of my thoughts about my previous relationship

I ended my relationship very soon, just after 3 months. To me those 3 months seamed much longer. I spent every day with her. Almost every minute of my time (except working hours) was with her.

At first I felt great, we were in love. When BPD signals started to be more and more visible, I tried to help her. Even to feed her irrational demands. I had several talks with her about this. The reply was always that I shouldn't do that. But every time, this irrational thing won, broke me.

I would take quietly 99 times irrational events, and then explode on 100th time. Then we would argue. Heavily.

At the end we both were exhausted.  I took some time off and decided that I was too exhausted, too much hurted, with unclear image who am I, who is she, why is this happening... .Felt really bad, probably the worst emotional period in my life.

I said that the best way is to break up.

I believe she was the first woman I really loved.

She said that she loved once before, long time ago. But she lost her faith that she can love again, until I showed up in her life. (This sentence kills me till this day)

I know that she goes to therapy. She is convinced that she will be better.

She is aware of her irrational fears, she showed me some mechanisms to deal with them. She knows that her illness is not biological imbalance, it is chemical imbalance, she knows that she need to change/train her behavior pattern.

During studying BPD after breakup , now I am more convinced that she is on the right track. I cannot say that she will 100% sure beat this. But she is on a right track.

So my problem is:



What kind of person am I if I leaved her only after 3 months. A person that I thought I love. For the first time in my life. (!)

A person who is aware of her problems and a person who fights with her issues.

And hearing here examples of people staying with BPD wifes for so many years, trying, even with BPDs that are undiagnosed and who seek no help.

I feel like sh*t currently, I am literally broken by considering this idea.

Actually crying while writing this post.  :'(

This is one of the worst days after our breakup (1 month ago). During this period I believe I raised a self-defense shield by studying BPD and reading how BPD people are bad, and that fed my inner issues and doubts that I made a right decision. Today I started my own therapy, I thought that things are starting to go in a better direction.

Now I don't think she is a bad person, especially considering the fact she is working on her issues.

I feel so selfish, because I didn't try more.

[Mr Hollande]

There are two kinds on this forum. Those who walked and those who were walked out on. The former category tend to be plagued by feelings of guilt like you are. The latter are often more broken up and lost. As a member of the latter group I say you are wiser than I was because you had enough after 3 month while I hung on for 5 years.

I did walk on a couple of occasions though and when I did she played me very well by pressing the "damsel in distress who was so in love with me, the love of her life, that she couldn't live anymore" button and I too felt like a bad person. Plus I loved her and was still hoping to make things work. Silly me!

Bad person or not, you did the right thing IMO. Don't beat yourself up over it.

[focus]

In my honest opinion, I think the people here who were in a long term relationship with a diagnosed person with BPD, a person that showed borderline traits and/or are survivors after a narcissisticly abusive relationship all have pourus bondaries, and/or are codependent to a certan degree.

Don't feel bad about setting bondaries. Looking out for yourself is your no. 1 priority.

I am 6 months out of a marrige. In her relationship with me, she had never been this stable. Things were really looking bright for her. She was happy. I was told this by many people. She still screwed me over big time and hurt me in ways I can not describe.

I am still recovering after this ugly mess. Still loads of hurt. But I'm getting a lot better.

[emergent]

I hope I can offer you some perspective on this.

I am leaving my exBPDw after 15 years of not only trying very hard to make her happy or at the very least, less miserable, but pouring my every ounce of energy into it, pouring my SELF into it and losing my self in the process. All of it was in vain; nothing I did ever took away an iota of suffering for her. Some days, I feel exactly the same after 15 years as you do after 3 months: selfish, because I didn't try MORE. Imagine yourself 15 years from now with that same woman, and nothing you've done for 15 years has helped, and you don't know who you are anymore because you've been erased in the effort. STILL feeling guilty that you should do or should have done MORE. 15 years down the drain, and two miserable people instead of one. You might be wishing you'd left after 3 months because in reality there is no MORE you can do!

Maybe there is a middle ground, where if she is committed to treatment and does get better, something could come of your relationship with her?

[once removed]

hey blackbirdsong 

it could be that you actually did the most compassionate, loving thing you could do. as a romantic partner, you were in a pretty tricky position to help her. recovery is something that shes got to do. it may happen, it may not. you say that you were losing yourself in this relationship. thats a good sign you needed to step back, protect yourself, process, and do some of your own recovery work. its not wrong and it doesnt make you a bad person to do that - its the old analogy of putting on your own oxygen mask before you can assist in putting on someone elses.

[blackbirdsong]

Maybe there is a middle ground, where if she is committed to treatment and does get better, something could come of your relationship with her?

Well, this is my biggest issue. Now I know I wouldn't allow her to drain me. I think I would set more strict boundaries. Now I even think she would accept them.

But then again, even while writing this last sentence, my gut tells me that it would be enormously hard anyway.

This is so messed up. Like I am loving a person who has an additional person inside her that jumps in to "work few shifts and leaves... ."

So this is a issue that we all have? When is enough? When you are "allowed" to say, "I can't do this anymore... ."?

Does this time even exist when you love someone?

[blackbirdsong]

hey blackbirdsong 

it could be that you actually did the most compassionate, loving thing you could do. as a romantic partner, you were in a pretty tricky position to help her. recovery is something that shes got to do. it may happen, it may not. you say that you were losing yourself in this relationship. thats a good sign you needed to step back, protect yourself, process, and do some of your own recovery work. its not wrong and it doesnt make you a bad person to do that - its the old analogy of putting on your own oxygen mask before you can assist in putting on someone elses.

Hi, thank you for your response. This is something my friends and family told me also.

But the tragic story is that you need to leave someone you love and someone that loves you in order to help them.

Love should be nurtured and evolving, not abandoned.

This is just sad.

[Mr Hollande]

So this is a issue that we all have? When is enough? When you are "allowed" to say, "I can't do this anymore... ."?

Does this time even exist when you love someone?

It's for you to decide. No one else should have a say when you can or can't end a relationship. Unless you live in a culture where arranged marriage is enforced. Do you? If not, then the decision is entirely in your hands.

Question. If you went back, would it be for feelings of guilt and obligation or would it be love?

[thisworld]

I think you are the kind of person who is confusing self-care -or even self-preservation because you say you came to a point of exhaustion- with selfishness. Like many of us, someone who actually has good enough boundaries but wrongly associates them with selfishness. Probably a hard-worker who, as soon as he finds some new strength, blames himself for quitting - whilst forgetting that you actually have this strength now only because you separated yourself from a situation that you say exhausted you, that caused you to almost lose your own self-image. What were you supposed to do? Carry on and become a shadow of yourself? Someone like that needs help themselves and cannot realistically help anyone anyway.

Perhaps, you are also someone who did not enable their partner's problematic behaviour and showed them that yes, no matter what their feelings are, their behaviours are so difficult that someone even someone who loves them cannot stand these behaviours for longer than 3 months. What to do with this feedback is up to her now. If she takes this seriously and wants to do something about it, what you did will be a great and rare gift to her on the way to recovery. If she chooses to believe that your love was not real love, it is again up to her. Why did someone she found decent enough to have a relationship end this relationship the way he did after three months - think of how other relationships end after a couple of months and how this one did - probably at least one partner was more tormented than usual.

Help is not limited to just staying in a relationship and trying to improve communication skills, offering support etc. Sometimes, help is just being who you are and giving people an idea about how their actions affect someone like yourself. Some people who recover even remain grateful for this kind of help for the rest of their lives.        

[fromheeltoheal]

Ok, this is not a topic where I want you to tell my: "No, blackbirdsong, you are a great person! Keep it up"

OK, I won't.

But she lost her faith that she can love again, until I showed up in her life. (This sentence kills me till this day)

Mine said the same thing, idealization to the extreme, she'd lost her faith until her knight in shining armor showed up, which was undoubtedly true for her when she said it, and then at some point it wasn't.

I know that she goes to therapy. She is convinced that she will be better.

She is aware of her irrational fears, she showed me some mechanisms to deal with them.

This is good, some self awareness and desire to deal with it, and good for her!

She knows that her illness is not biological imbalance, it is chemical imbalance,

Actually it's not, if it was a chemical imbalance it could be rebalanced with other chemicals, which it can't.  What it is is a personality disorder, brought about by a failure to successfully detach from her mother in the first couple of years of life; she didn't go through what we consider "normal" development, the development of a 'self' of her own on the way to becoming an autonomous individual, and all of the behaviors come out of that.

she knows that she need to change/train her behavior pattern.

During studying BPD after breakup , now I am more convinced that she is on the right track. I cannot say that she will 100% sure beat this. But she is on a right track.

OK then, this sounds hopeful.

So my problem is:



What kind of person am I if I leaved her only after 3 months. A person that I thought I love. For the first time in my life. (!)

A person who is aware of her problems and a person who fights with her issues.

I feel like sh*t currently, I am literally broken by considering this idea.

Actually crying while writing this post.  :'(

This is one of the worst days after our breakup (1 month ago). During this period I believe I raised a self-defense shield by studying BPD and reading how BPD people are bad, and that fed my inner issues and doubts that I made a right decision. Today I started my own therapy, I thought that things are starting to go in a better direction.

Now I don't think she is a bad person, especially considering the fact she is working on her issues.

I feel so selfish, because I didn't try more.

Consider this: even someone who is entirely selfless, entirely concerned with and focused on someone else's needs, after giving and giving and giving, eventually is going to ask where's mine?  And of course, if someone then starts to get a sense of self-worth and identity from being the 'helper', we call that codependency.  But codependency aside, selfishness gets a bad rap, but it's actually mandatory; if we don't take care of ourselves first we have nothing to give.  If we don't fill ourselves up first we have nothing to give, and if our partner is especially needy they cannot be relied upon to fill us up, in fact they will deplete us, and willingly becoming depleted doesn't help anyone.

And sure, it's best to go into relationships with a desire to give, and if both people are focused on giving to their partner, this amazing thing called a sustainable relationship gets built between them, so tell me BBS, were your needs getting met by your partner?  :)id you ever start to substitute your needs for hers when you discovered that her neediness and self-focus was going to be a full time deal?  :)o you remember how it felt just before you left her, what motivated you to?  Could she ever meet your needs on a sustainable level?  If so, or maybe, and she's willing to own her stuff and work on it, maybe you reconcile and move to the Staying board, lots of folks there with lots of tools.  Take care of you!  

[thisworld]

I think you are the kind of person who is confusing self-care -or even self-preservation because you say you came to a point of exhaustion- with selfishness. Like many of us, someone who actually has good enough boundaries but wrongly associates them with selfishness. Probably a hard-worker who, as soon as he finds some new strength, blames himself for quitting - whilst forgetting that you actually have this strength now only because you separated yourself from a situation that you say exhausted you, that caused you to almost lose your own self-image. What were you supposed to do? Carry on and become a shadow of yourself? Someone like that needs help themselves and cannot realistically help anyone anyway.

Perhaps, you are also someone who did not enable their partner's problematic behaviour and showed them that yes, no matter what their feelings are, their behaviours are so difficult that someone even someone who loves them cannot stand these behaviours for longer than 3 months. What to do with this feedback is up to her now. If she takes this seriously and wants to do something about it, what you did will be a great and rare gift to her on the way to recovery. If she chooses to believe that your love was not real love, it is again up to her. Why did someone she found decent enough to have a relationship end this relationship the way he did after three months - think of how other relationships end after a couple of months and how this one did - probably at least one partner was more tormented than usual.

Help is not limited to just staying in a relationship and trying to improve communication skills, offering support etc. Sometimes, help is just being who you are and giving people an idea about how their actions affect someone like yourself. Some people who recover even remain grateful for this kind of help for the rest of their lives.        

And when is enough? In my opinion, when your stomach was tightening, when your gut was uncomfortable, when you - even if guiltily- started resenting the situation you were in, it was probably enough. Then you probably worked a bit more and it was more than enough. Enough isn't ahead of you, it's way behind. There isn't a certain period of time after which people comfortably say this is enough, some people lose their lives over this. But these relationships condition us to think in a different way. Plus, as far as I understand, she started therapy after your relationship ended. See, you may have already inspired her to do something positive you know - even if though separation.

Before this therapy settles a bit and she develops some stability, I would take any comment about true love from a BPD with a grain of salt.

[Mr Hollande]

What ThisWorld said about strength reminds me of the following story. A few years ago during one of our break ups I was on tour with my band. One of the guys said afterwards that he thought I'd been calmer and happier than he'd seen me in a long while. Except for the one time in Germany when I got a phone call from her. I don't remember what it was about but there was drama afoot over something I'd done allegedly. He said the veins in my neck popped out and I got red in the face as I stormed down the street shouting like a lunatic into the phone. I remember the occasion but I was unaware I'd been that angry. It says plenty about the kind of person I was when I was with her. Similar to your account it was exhausting.

What kind of person are you when you're with her? Better or worse?

[blackbirdsong]

Plus, as far as I understand, she started therapy after your relationship ended. See, you may have already inspired her to do something positive you know - even if though separation.

Before this therapy settles a bit and she develops some stability, I would take any comment about true love from a BPD with a grain of salt.

Actually no, she started therapy 3 years ago. Then this year she stopped, because she felt much better. And then during our relationship she started again.

[blackbirdsong]

Consider this: even someone who is entirely selfless, entirely concerned with and focused on someone else's needs, after giving and giving and giving, eventually is going to ask where's mine?  And of course, if someone then starts to get a sense of self-worth and identity from being the 'helper', we call that codependency.  But codependency aside, selfishness gets a bad rap, but it's actually mandatory; if we don't take care of ourselves first we have nothing to give.  If we don't fill ourselves up first we have nothing to give, and if our partner is especially needy they cannot be relied upon to fill us up, in fact they will deplete us, and willingly becoming depleted doesn't help anyone.

And sure, it's best to go into relationships with a desire to give, and if both people are focused on giving to their partner, this amazing thing called a sustainable relationship gets built between them, so tell me BBS, were your needs getting met by your partner?  :)id you ever start to substitute your needs for hers when you discovered that her neediness and self-focus was going to be a full time deal?  :)o you remember how it felt just before you left her, what motivated you to?  Could she ever meet your needs on a sustainable level?  If so, or maybe, and she's willing to own her stuff and work on it, maybe you reconcile and move to the Staying board, lots of folks there with lots of tools.  Take care of you!  

Hi,

well, as I read about BPD it is chemical imbalance. It is not physical issue like in bipolar disorder where you need to take medicine in order to be better. Chemical medicines don't improve BPD, you need therapy to regulate neurotransmitters in your brain, to train different patterns in your brain. Medical supplements can only help by solving BPD symptoms  , they cannot resolve things that cause BPD.

so tell me BBS, were your needs getting met by your partner?



I would say that all my needs weren't met. But can you even have a relationship with BPD and have all your needs met? Can you have a relationship with "healthy" person and have all your needs met?

Did you ever start to substitute your needs for hers when you discovered that her neediness and self-focus was going to be a full time deal?

Yes, a lot. But I like to believe that she did the same for me in some situations. This is compromise. Something you do in a relationship.

Do you remember how it felt just before you left her, what motivated you to?

Like I said, I felt exhausted and said to myself: "If this is love, I will be screwed for the rest of my life. But I can't take this anymore". She was convincing me that I am just tired, that this is just a phase, that I took care of her, that she now needs to take care of me. That everything will be ok.  That I cannot give up love.

[fromheeltoheal]

well, as I read about BPD it is chemical imbalance. It is not physical issue like in bipolar disorder where you need to take medicine in order to be better. Chemical medicines don't improve BPD, you need therapy to regulate neurotransmitters in your brain, to train different patterns in your brain. Medical supplements can only help by solving BPD symptoms  , they cannot resolve things that cause BPD.

You're right, it's not a physical issue and isn't a chemical one either, it's a developmental one, and it can't be 'cured' but a borderline can learn to regulate the symptoms with therapy and tools like DBT, and their partner can learn tools as well.

so tell me BBS, were your needs getting met by your partner?

I would say that all my needs weren't met. But can you even have a relationship with BPD and have all your needs met? Can you have a relationship with "healthy" person and have all your needs met?

A healthy relationship is a 50/50 partnership, and if one partner is feeling they aren't getting needs met they can sit down and talk with their partner about it, and in the context of mutual respect and trust they can be completely emotionally vulnerable with each other, resolve issues together, and strengthen the relationship as a result.  None of that was possible with my ex and it may be with yours, or you may be willing to forego that type of relationship to be with her, up to you.

Did you ever start to substitute your needs for hers when you discovered that her neediness and self-focus was going to be a full time deal?

Yes, a lot. But I like to believe that she did the same for me in some situations. This is compromise. Something you do in a relationship.

Yes, and it's up to you to decide if the compromises you're making are worth it.  They weren't when you were together, you left her, but maybe things have changed now?

Do you remember how it felt just before you left her, what motivated you to?

Like I said, I felt exhausted and said to myself: "If this is love, I will be screwed for the rest of my life. But I can't take this anymore". She was convincing me that I am just tired, that this is just a phase, that I took care of her, that she now needs to take care of me. That everything will be ok.  That I cannot give up love.

And you can read post after post here about folks who have gotten back together with their partner and in a very short time it was worse than before.  Your leaving is interpreted as abandonment by a borderline, the worst thing that can happen, so trust is lower the next time around, and abandonment fears greater, which show up in behaviors. 

I don't have an agenda one way or the other, I just know that we're still fragile early after a breakup and I'm just suggesting things to trigger thoughts that may help you consider all the sides of what you're going through.  You sound like you're leaning towards reestablishing something with her which is great if that's what you want, and we're here one way or the other.  Take care of you!

[Joem678]

Hey dude,

Hang in there.  The only reason why I don't have regrets about staying away are my 4 kids.  The sad thing is that they are now part of this emotional roller coaster.  You took care of yourself.  Kudos!

[C.Stein]

But she lost her faith that she can love again, until I showed up in her life. (This sentence kills me till this day)

Funny, my ex said almost the exact same thing to me in the beginning.

During this period I believe I raised a self-defense shield by studying BPD and reading how BPD people are bad, and that fed my inner issues and doubts that I made a right decision.

This was a problem for me, even without knowledge of BPD.  By raising your defense shield you are closing off your heart, at least somewhat, in order to protect yourself from being hurt.  This WILL impact the relationship in many different and negative ways.  Consider what you are not only robbing from yourself but also from her.

[Beach_Babe]

I wish I would have left after 3 months. It never gets better, trust me. I tried for 14 years. Do not feel guilty, you can't help this person.

[apollotech]

BBS,

As I stated on another thread of yours, I think that with time and a deeper understanding of BPD, you're going to realize just how small of a role you actually played in the relationship. I am not saying that to be hurtful or to minimize you as a person. BPD is a very serious mental disorder; untreated, it controls the life of the person afflicted with it (You have seen this firsthand!).

As far as the guilt that you're feeling for terminating the relationship, I will ask you this, as she is not in control of herself, what other avenues were available to you that would have maintained a healthy relationship with her? You shouldn't feel guilty about protecting yourself; you are obligated to do that. If she put you in the position to where that was the best solution (to leave), then that is her problem; her BPD created that scenario. You never did, and you still don't, have the authority to change/correct her mental issue(s).

[troisette]

"I would take quietly 99 times irrational events, and then explode on 100th time."

Although you took it quietly, what effect was it having on you internally?

Damaging stress probably.

I think you were wise to leave after 3 months. You'll understand from the many posts here that immediate post break up is emotionally shattering. Trying to make sense of something that follows no logic in our world is impossible but we try.

If you  had stayed you would probably have become deeply enmeshed, making it harder to extricate yourself and making recovery longer.

Although she may not behave like it, she is an adult and responsible for her own life. She is not your responsibility, but your well being is.

The longings and wonderings can be unbearable, the "what ifs" alluring. But BPD is a serious mental illness, it can be helped by specific therapy, over a number of years. This requires dedication on the part of the person with BPD and also those involved with them. Even if she underwent this therapy, my guess is that you'd be walking on eggshells for years. And I was told that under extreme stress, regression is possible even when the therapy has been considered successful.

So please, give yourself a pat on the back for being as patient as you were with her, and for being wise enough to end it. It hurts like hell when it ends, but it does get better with time.