Giving in or deferring just to keep the peace, I don't think I can at this point

[byfaith]

last night there was a build up question from my wife. It took about a minute and a half or longer for her to ask it. I need to ask you to do something for me.

It won't cost you a thing, it's no big deal, it's just for me hopefully, you can just give me this... .I was wondering what it was going to be. Can you place the the silverware into the dishwasher like I do? she puts it in with the handles down and the part you eat off of sticking up.

I KNOW this sound ridiculous. I didn't say I would do it. Which led into you are not a good christian husband, you are a bad example, you are not someone I can look up to. All I knew to say is yes you are right I am not good at any of these. In her mind I am not.

I wondered when she was going to ask me to do this. I thought maybe she won't ask me because she is trying to let small things go. I have put silverware in a dishwasher dirty part down all my life (I understand the problem here is not the silverware placement)

I was told I had serious problems. more later. The problem is much much larger than this "thing". It's like a fight I'm in the tenth round and these hits to the head have worn me down. All these things are ways for her to say every time I start getting close to you go and do this. I feel like I can't get back to a  baseline, if that's the correct term.

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[isilme]

I DO think you have to pick and choose your battles, but that's true in ANY relationship, not just ones where a PD is present.

Is there any reason a small thing, as you put it, like this was something to stand up against changing?  I'm just asking because a thing like that, PD or no, might be worth changing to stave off the argument for something bigger, like where to spend the holidays or who has to do certain tasks.  uBPDFI has some quirks about the kitchen I try to respect because it doesn't hurt me to do so, like keeping one side of the sink clear for tea/kool aid prep, instead of having dishes in both sides (we have no dishwasher, unless you count me and my hands).  I understand his logic, even if his tone and manner are not always polite.  And I stand my ground if he gets cranky about it while I am doing meal prep or something that takes up that side of the sink.  I pick my battles. 

Also, validating her feelings does not mean you have to state you are not good at being a husband or someone she can look up to.  You can say, "I am sorry you feel this way, I understand right now this is how you feel, etc."  Don't say, "yes, you are right, I am bad."  You're not supposed to validate the "truth" of her statements, just that you understand and acknowledge that she is FEELING a certain way.  And that gets tricky sometimes.  I never got good a SET, but it's in the Lessons, too.

I guess reading this, I know there is a lot more on both sides than the dishwasher, but even in a marriage with no PD, things like the dishwasher can lead to an argument.  I mean, if you are applying ALL requests like this as a boundary, like no more silly requests, I guess I can see it, but it also sounds a lot like you're tired of being accommodating at all.  Was it her tone?  What if she'd said, "Honey, studies show handle-down placement of forks increases cleaning efficiency" instead?  Is it how she asked this and anything else that made you balk?

[byfaith]

its more about me giving and giving little things such as these and in other areas of the relationship and on her end are halted. I have asked several times don't leave the check card laying out around the house, it could get lost etc. I ask her not to spend money on online games without asking me, she just does it and then tells me later. I don't say anything to any of these things, because it produces no results. I have asked for certain things to be turned off before shutting the car off. I don't ask for much. She is a clutterer I don't complain about that.

I have been told don''t fold dishrags in half, if I do she will throw them away. she used to throw small spoons out because she didn't think I should eat with them, fold bath towels this way, when you push chairs into the kitchen table they should not touch the table, the dish towels have to folded a certain way. I could make a list of things I have to do or else I will hear about it. It used to be ok with me some of the stuff but now even going to the grocery store I debate on what to get or not to get because she is going to say something, even though I do 90% of the grocery shopping. I hear things all the time like how much more common sense she has than me, it is never ending.

The silverware yeah I could do it her way, but the problem will be when she asks me to tell my 22 year old daughter to do it that way. It's like my wife has nothing better to do than to find SOMETHING wrong with every little thing. And the PD response is usually over the top, no objective conversations just blame me for being inadequate.

since we have been married I gave up with sleeping with the bedroom door shut, I sleep with the TV on, she has a fan running. I did all of these without a problem. I guess the lack of an affectionate marriage plays into all of this, no sex for 3 years.

Dang there is so much more I could talk about. I am an easy going person. I have thought about calling her today and letting her know I will do what she wants and I can understand how she feels and its no big deal. but then when she tries to enforce it house wide then what? I disagree with her.

I come home to a wife who sits around most of the day playing iPad games and sitting in a recliner, usually grungy t shirt pajama bottoms, 75% of the time and try to be nice. I NEVER say anything about the way she is dressed. I try to tell her she is pretty if I am hugging her or we are sitting at the table talking.

I am so freakin confused to be honest. I have never had ANYONE in my life degrade me how she does. Not even my enemies. I know some people have it way worse then me. Like I have said in other posts, I have lost myself. I have never been as good to someone as I have been to her, NEVER.

Guess I am just ranting

I have picked and chosen my battles and I guess I have just become tired of it all

I want to make a list of all the things I do for her and say here... .but I don't, I know I shouldn't 

[byfaith]

her tone was fine, she just has the persona about her that her way is better most of the time. She drives people away from her because of it the closer they are the worse it gets.

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

I understand just how exhausting these things can be... .Any and all compromises are gobbled up (or at least the half the non agrees to) and that's the new normal. 

[byfaith]

I can predict what will probably happen... .I give in and say ok I will put it in your way. Then once she gets that from me the next step will be make sure that my D22 follows suit. I will be asked to say something to my daughter and if I say no then I am letting my kid walk all over me and I am not backing my wife up OR my wife will ask her and my D22 will think she has serious problems because my wife's other kitchen habits are horrible. I could even back it more if my wife was a freak about the kitchen in general but she is not ( I do not discuss my wife issues with my daughter) my D just know that my wife deal with depression. She also observes.

My wife talks about her mother being OCD about everything and goes on and on about it but I guess doesn't see it in herself. My wife is weird though she will leave dishes in the sink stacked for 8-12 hours or leave stuff out on the counter and have the table all cluttered with stuff but she wants to B$tch about the direction of the silverware in the dishwasher and enforce everyone to do it.

[chump]

Hi byfaith,

Not sure how helpful this is, but maybe this is a relatively low-impact opportunity to practice some boundary-setting and problem-solving.  Something like "I can see you prefer to put the silverware in facing up, and I've always done it facing down.  So how about we do this?  When you load the dishwasher you can do it your way, and when I load it I'll do it my way?"  I know, crazy, right?

Or, knowing this is the upside-down world of BPDLand, how about we flip it?  "If it would really make you feel good for me to do it your way when I'm loading the dishwasher, I can see that, it feels nice when someone does it your way just to make you feel heard.  I would like it that too, completely understandable.  So how about we get creative?  When I load the dishwasher I'll do it your way, as a nice gesture, and when you load the dishwasher, you do it my way?"  

I know, I know, only in a parallel universe would this conversation go well.  But it still points to the importance of recognizing boundaries, self-care, and maybe a light-hearted approach to problem solving.  And yes, it probably won't work, but just as a thought experiment it might be helpful.

Chump

[maxsterling]

Wow.  I know exactly what you are going though.  My W will nitpick this and that, things that really don't matter.  I don't mind changing my habits for her, but on the other hand I feel like "why change something that does not matter?"  Of course, she does things different that annoy me, too.  But I usually don't bring them up, because I evaluate it beforehand and realize that it is not important and that I really can't expect her to change.  My life feels like yours - W has a list of thing she wants me to change or do differently, things that really don't matter or affect her.  Yet if I bring up something I want her to do different, she becomes resentful or just won't do it.  

Like you, all this nagging adds up to produce a negative attitude in my brain.  All it does is take one simple comment to sink my mood, whereas in the beginning of the r/s I was not nearly so bothered.  For example, heaven forbid I leave the toilet seat up.  it's something I very rarely do, but the one time I do, my wife will be sure to let me know that I did, even if it means calling to me across the house, waking me up when I am sleeping, or bringing it up later when I come home.  My thought?  This happens about once every other month, why can't she just lower the seat and not mention it? It totally sinks my mood to hear it.  

My mom was this way when I was growing up, so maybe that is part of why I feel so bad.  I know giving in to keep the peace is inevitable in every r/s, but I certainly understand the exhaustion of feeling like giving in to so many little things and asking for very little in return.  If it were one little thing every now and then, it would be much easier.  But when it is every day and every little time you forget or slip up is brought to your attention, it's perfectly natural to feel run down.

[globalnomad]

I had a similar conversation with my fiance recently. She told me -- with great concern -- that I was putting the cutlery in the dishwasher the wrong way. It really bothers her. I have always put them in pointy end up, for no particular reason. Perhaps she is right that this is "wrong," although I doubt anybody is going to die as a result.  I was OK with promising to do it her way in the future. The point is though, she gets annoyed about so many little things like this that it becomes very tiring, and I feel like I am constantly making small concessions.

At the end of the day I think it is the sense of unfairness that is such a weight on many of us. As an example, my BPD fiance is hyper sensitive to the tone of my voice and facial expressions. The tiniest hint of sarcasm or look of anger or disapproval can really set her off. I have to be really careful.

Yet she does not practice what she preaches. She often gives me overly dramatic looks of anger and disgust multiple times a day. If I happen to spill some water or drop some food while we're eating, for example, she will sometimes look at me like I just slept with her best friend. I am not allowed to say anything about these looks -- or point out how hurtful they are -- or it will be the start of world war III.

I might have strayed off the topic a bit. But I feel your pain, sir 

[byfaith]

oh yeah... .the facial expressions, you are right the smallest thing.  Last night she slammed the freezer door and when she walked away I went phhtt! she came back around the corner pissed because I did that. She said what was that for? I said for slamming the freezer, she said I didn't slam it on purpose I said I apologize for the noise I made, she said well I don't accept your apology with this nasty look on her face. I said you know what? I don't care if you accept it or not, it doesn't really matter... .

Max I could have written that post

Well I tried calling her to test the waters for when I go home tonight. Apparently she is giving me the silent treatment. I did sleep in the other room last night by my own choice, she was probably mad that I also left the house to think, I told her what I was doing. I also told her " just want to let you know respectfully if you text me while I am out I will not be responding" she hasn't texted or called me since last night.

I went back and read the lesson on SET maybe it's too late for this situation but I was going to try to employ some of those methods

[Twt]

I know exactly what you're talking about, and think chump's suggestion is a really nice one and worth a try.

I find the best and only way to maintain my mood and self respect is to get out and spend time friends and family who judge me for who I am, and not how they are feeling (like my BPDw). That's really the only anchor we have, not to get carried off with the stream (for lack of a better metaphor). You might even find your sex life improves as she misses you/starts to get jealous of your time.

It sounds like you're doing a great job, but just need a bit of rest. We should go out for beer :-)

[Notwendy]

Byfaith- are you doing anything for yourself such as personal therapy? This board is great- but also working with a therapist can help break these patterns.

You may be thinking why would you be the one to get therapy and not your wife- if she has the disorder? Well, for one, you are feeling emotional pain in this, and this is a motivator for change. While we know that we can't change another person's behavior, when we change, we change the dynamics in a relationship and that can effect change.

You may fear that doing something different may lead to ending a relationship that you cherish. Well, whenever there is change, we risk that, but we also open up the possibility that there is change for the better.

Appeasing your wife may make things calmer in the short run, but you have been doing this a long time enough to know that it isn't leading to change in her. If you keep on doing what you are doing, it is likely that the dynamics between you will persist.

MC is good sometimes, but I think that individual T with someone who is motivated can lead to personal change.

[Notwendy]

When my H and I went to MC, the T focused on me. My first reaction to this was to be angry, since I didn't think it was fair that I was the focus. I felt that, since it takes two, then the focus would be on both of us, not me. However, I realize that the T was savvy in that she knew that I was the more motivated one since I was the one who wanted the change in the relationship.

Why would my H want things to change when I was appeasing him? He got his way because I feared upsetting him. I also thought that being a good wife was to do what I could to "make him happy" but appeasement didn't work to do that either and I was unhappy.

As to what to do different- there was not a set path for the relationship-although the T and co-dependency 12 steps did have a path for personal change -and it isn't linear, sometimes one step forward, one step backwards. I did a lot of individual work on co-dependency. It's still a work on progress.

[byfaith]

Hey NotWendy

Yes I am going to therapy. My wife is also going to therapy. Separate therapists.

My wife has already told me that she will not go to MC. Maybe she will change her mind. 

From what she has told me it didn't work in her past marriages. She considers it a bashing session. Bottom line she doesn't want to be told what she could improve on.

My problem is that I know that when I change, things are going to get rough. I have to be willing to go through that storm. I have not come to that place. Whenever I do anything that goes against her grain things get ugly. I don't navigate well. That is something I have to work on.