Just finished audio book: Attached; curious what others think

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hey guys!

I just listened to the audio book Attached by Amir Levine and Rachel S. F. Heller.

I am shocked as it very clearly explained the dynamics at play between my ex (an avoidant) and myself (not sure, but tested mostly as a anxious=9, then secure=6, avoidant=2). I feel so validated and have great clarity hearing much about the dynamics at play between an avoidant and an anxious.

I wonder the random thoughts of what others think who have read this book?

If you have not read it, here is a link to the basic concepts:

A Brief Overview of Adult Attachment Theory and Research

I also have some concerns as I also did some other research into the concepts of attachment theory by Bowlyby.  In my readings it is clear to me that at infancy, I likely had a disorganized attachment.  I wonder how this translates into the book Attachment as the quiz does not even address this style but funnels all quiz takers into the three more common categories.  I also wonder where I may continue to display disorganized attachment or not.

According to PsychAlive.org, when a child's caregiver is a source of distress, the child has no base of support to turn to, thereby developing this disorganization of attachment.  Children often then dissociate from themselves and feel detached from what is happening and what they are experiencing may be blocked from consciousness.  80% of abused children have a disorganized attachment.  20-40% of the population has some degree of disorganized attachment.  Persons with disorganized attachment styles have difficulty self soothing and sometimes use others to co-regulate emotions.

I guess I just am curious to hear others free thoughts in this area.

(I also bring this up because of the great correlation of abuse and dissociation that this reveals and I have noted other threads around here of others also dealing with issues of dissociation)

Thank you!

[Sunfl0wer]

Hey guys!

I just listened to the audio book Attached by Amir Levine and Rachel S. F. Heller.

I am shocked as it very clearly explained the dynamics at play between my ex (an avoidant) and myself (not sure, but tested mostly as a anxious=9, then secure=6, avoidant=2). I feel so validated and have great clarity hearing much about the dynamics at play between an avoidant and an anxious.

I wonder the random thoughts of what others think who have read this book?

If you have not read it, here is a link to the basic concepts:

A Brief Overview of Adult Attachment Theory and Research

I also have some concerns as I also did some other research into the concepts of attachment theory by Bowlyby.  In my readings it is clear to me that at infancy, I likely had a disorganized attachment.  I wonder how this translates into the book Attachment as the quiz does not even address this style but funnels all quiz takers into the three more common categories.  I also wonder where I may continue to display disorganized attachment or not.

According to PsychAlive.org, when a child's caregiver is a source of distress, the child has no base of support to turn to, thereby developing this disorganization of attachment.  Children often then dissociate from themselves and feel detached from what is happening and what they are experiencing may be blocked from consciousness.  80% of abused children have a disorganized attachment.  20-40% of the population has some degree of disorganized attachment.  Persons with disorganized attachment styles have difficulty self soothing and sometimes use others to co-regulate emotions.

I guess I just am curious to hear others free thoughts in this area.

(I also bring this up because of the great correlation of abuse and dissociation that this reveals and I have noted other threads around here of others also dealing with issues of dissociation)

Thank you!

[chayka]

Thanks for mentioning this. I haven't read it, but it sounds very interesting. I'll take a look at the link you posted. 

Chayka

[Kwamina]

Hi Sunfl0wer

I have not read this book, also have not read the article but I do find this first line from the summary of that article very interesting:

"Research on adult attachment is guided by the assumption that the same motivational system that gives rise to the close emotional bond between parents and their children is responsible for the bond that develops between adults in emotionally intimate relationships."

This link between these two bonds is indeed assumed and something that underlies many stories on these boards and also several resources. Although it's seems almost universally believed this assumption is valid, it might still be helpful to take a closer look at this assumption and just how that early bond affects the bonds you may or may not develop in later life.

It intuitively seems to make sense that persons with a disorganized attachment style might find it difficult to self soothe since they as a child did not have a parent to soothe them in moments of distress. Unfortunately for children with a disordered parent, their own parent often is the cause of distress which can be highly confusing and unsettling since your natural instinct at first would be to run to your parent to soothe you.

Considering the disorganized attachment style and the consequences this has for the ability to self soothe, this could possibly explain why a child might develop other coping mechanisms. Dissociating in abused children can also be seen as a coping mechanism of the mind to be able to deal with extreme circumstances.

Just some first thoughts

[PrettyPlease]

I wonder the random thoughts of what others think who have read this book?

Hi Sunfl0wer,

I read it, and have a copy, and count it as one of the more important books of my life. It wasn't detailed enough for me, but it gave a web link to a place to do deeper testing, and I ended up being able to place myself accurately as an avoidant-dismissive attachment style, and to understand how this had played out in my life in past relationships. Many things rang completely true for me in the examples and explanations in the book.

It wasn't perfect, and I wish they hadn't gone quite as rah-rah pop-psych in their writing style, but I think the science behind it is sound.

For your disorganized attachment, I can imagine it would be distressing to have read or listened to the book and not have that mentioned. I've just now looked at the index, and there's a single listing for "disorganized" —page 8— and worse, on page 8 the word "disorganized" doesn't even appear. But they seem to be discussing the concept there, so perhaps they decided to call it something else in a late edit, which I think is "combination of anxious and avoidant" (which appears on top of page 9 at the end of a paragraph started on p.8).  

To be fair to them, I think disorganized attachment is less well understood, at least in its effect on adult relationships, and apparently the authors have chosen to present a simplified structure that will apply to the majority of people. Not much consolation to you, though, I'm sure.

I recall that the testing I did had more questions and was more complex than the questionnaire included in the book itself, and so might be of more use to a known disorganized person. The testing places you with respect to how much you have of both avoidant and anxious, not just one or the other. For example, I tested showing a high avoidant style, but with enough anxious to have an effect also, and that placed me in a different quadrant on the results graph.

I'm just winging this from memory, but if both avoidant and anxious tested high, then as I recall you'd be in yet another different quadrant on the graphing of the results, and perhaps that would correspond to 'disorganized'.

If you're interested, you might look at Dr. Chris Fraley, who maintains the online questionnaire.

His main page, giving many links:

https://internal.psychology.illinois.edu/~rcfraley/links.htm

One link I get now for the questionnaire is:

www.web-research-design.net/cgi-bin/crq/crq.pl

[aubin]

I'm currently reading this book and did lots of reading on attachment prior to getting this book. I think the reason the disorganized style of attachment doesn't show up in this book is because there isn't a neat alignment between the research on childhood attachment styles and the research on adult attachment styles, which the authors admit in the introduction. As they state in the book, they are extrapolating a bit from the childhood research, but the adult matrix of attachment is different, in part because adult styles account more for how we manage adult relationships, whereas the childhood styles are about how we first learn to form relationships. It's subtle, but it is a difference. So it makes sense that's there no adult disorganized style because that style is specifically about  having a threatening or frightful caregiver in lieu of a secure base in childhood, really in the earliest years of infancy, which has no adult equivalent.

Anyway, I'm finding this book to be really insightful too. I scored evenly between avoidant and secure, which is actually good because I think I was pretty fully avoidant throughout childhood and most of my adult life. My parents were physically present but emotionally absent or abusive when I was a kid -- we had food, shelter, and clothing, but no hugs, kisses, kind words, or any forms of intimacy. I actually remember the first time my mother hugged me; I was 17 and so physically repulsed by her touch that I almost vomited. Additionally, my uNPD father was physically abusive to my mother, and my mother (likely ASPD though I suspected BPD at first) was and still is emotionally abusive to me and my sister. But because we weren't beaten and had a roof over our head growing up, I somehow convinced myself I had a normal-ish childhood and therefore spent a lot of time shaming and blaming myself for not being able to sustain a healthy relationship. So this book really helped with unpacking the reasons why I crave intimacy but am so fearful of it. 

[unicorn2014]

Hey guys!

I just listened to the audio book Attached by Amir Levine and Rachel S. F. Heller.

I am shocked as it very clearly explained the dynamics at play between my ex (an avoidant) and myself (not sure, but tested mostly as a anxious=9, then secure=6, avoidant=2). I feel so validated and have great clarity hearing much about the dynamics at play between an avoidant and an anxious.

I wonder the random thoughts of what others think who have read this book?

If you have not read it, here is a link to the basic concepts:

A Brief Overview of Adult Attachment Theory and Research

I also have some concerns as I also did some other research into the concepts of attachment theory by Bowlyby.  In my readings it is clear to me that at infancy, I likely had a disorganized attachment.  I wonder how this translates into the book Attachment as the quiz does not even address this style but funnels all quiz takers into the three more common categories.  I also wonder where I may continue to display disorganized attachment or not.

According to PsychAlive.org, when a child's caregiver is a source of distress, the child has no base of support to turn to, thereby developing this disorganization of attachment.  Children often then dissociate from themselves and feel detached from what is happening and what they are experiencing may be blocked from consciousness.  80% of abused children have a disorganized attachment.  20-40% of the population has some degree of disorganized attachment.  Persons with disorganized attachment styles have difficulty self soothing and sometimes use others to co-regulate emotions.

I guess I just am curious to hear others free thoughts in this area.

(I also bring this up because of the great correlation of abuse and dissociation that this reveals and I have noted other threads around here of others also dealing with issues of dissociation)

Thank you!

Hi Sunfl0wer, I just checked that book out of the library today. I noticed I am dismissive in general, afraid-avoidant of my parents and secure with my partner. I'll let you know if I have time to read it. Currently I am reading understanding the borderline mother, and after that I'm going to read keeping the love you find, and the passionate marriage.

[fromheeltoheal]

I love that book and it's been a while, time for a re-read.  The main takeaway for me is that I have an anxious attachment style and people with avoidant styles are Kryptonite for me, which is the good news because the other takeaway is that 60% of folks have a secure style, 20% have an avoidant one and 20% have an anxious one, so that leaves 80% of the population available to me to have good relationships with, good odds.  And although attachment styles are relatively fixed, they're plastic in a sense that someone with an anxious style getting together with someone with a secure one can make the anxious one more secure, which is fine by me.

And a personality disorder is not an attachment style.  My ex could be considered anxious feigning secure to begin with and then avoidant during devaluation, but that methodology doesn't apply to someone with an unstable sense of self, so letting that go and focusing on personality ordered folks has been much more grounding for me.

The other piece is although our parents were the first and probably most important folks influencing our development, they're not the only ones, especially when it comes to adult relationships.  If we had some traumatic and painful adult romantic relationships, I certainly did in my 20's, those experiences get thrown on the stack as well, call it life experience, call it solidification of an attachment style, call it live and learn, but those experiences shape what we're up to today just as strongly if not more strongly than parental influence when we were children.  There's an exercise in that book that involves going back to past relationships and analyzing them from an attachment theory perspective and I can see time and again, looked at in that light, what happened, and it's been very helpful moving forward and choosing whom I'm willing to make room for in my life.  It's a brand new world.