Finally managed to break up. It's for good this time

[VitaminC]

Hello,

After 18 months and probably about a dozen break-ups (I have lost count), I have finally let the penny drop and realised that my ex has some very serious issues that may have been exacerbated, but certainly not caused, by me. I did it a few days before Christmas, because I once I saw it I couldn't unsee it and I did not want to be in a play of my own life.

While researching the past 4 or 5 months, I've come across BPD before but generally just blogs and fora, which gave such dramatic warnings and symptom lists that I mostly discounted this as a possible explanation. It's only since stumbling across this site that I put the pieces together. Indeed, he has BPD, or certainly many of the characteristics. The relationship patterns described on this site are very familiar.

I suppose I know what I need to do: give myself space, time to regroup, even heal, and work on the areas of my life that are actually important to me.

Right now, I feel that I won't slip back, as before. I finally can't deny the pattern, the cycles of making up, feeling close and connected, the distance gradually seeping in and then the childish, disrespectful behaviour starting again.

I am just a little worried that I'll become focussed on how quickly I'm sure to be replaced and letting that make me feel badly about myself.

I find the more information I have about the behaviours generally, the better fortified I am.

I am not sure what I am asking for at this moment. More information or reassurance that I'll cope with being replaced. : )

Thanks, any and all 

[Mutt]

Hi VitaminC,

I'm sorry to hear that. I bet that you were confused with the behaviors before you found out that it could be a personality disorder. I'm glad that you have found us.

I am not sure what I am asking for at this moment. More information or reassurance that I'll cope with being replaced. : )

It sounds like you're doing all of the right things with self protection by giving yourself the time that you need to detach and heal from these wounds and taking care of yourself. I think that it also helps to talk to people that have walked a mile in your shoes. How is your support with family and friends throughout your experience?

[VitaminC]

Hey there Mr. Mutt,

Thanks for your reply and kind words. I'm really glad I found this site / forum as well.

I've talked my friends to death over the past year and a half about these relationship problems. I've even done counseling in an effort to get clear about my own feelings and why I was staying in something that was making me increasingly unhappy.

My friends are exhausted and, some of them, at the end of their tether with me. It's become a running joke: "are you broken up or in love this week"? With my 'good' therapist (the expensive one) I focussed on me only, with the less good (cheaper) one I got advice to get the hell out.

I knew all along the issue was more complex than it being either all my problem or all his. The dynamic created together is the thing. But when there are actual mental health issues involved (as I long suspected), it's almost like adding a third person into the mix, isn't it?

I feel as if I've at long last found a sort of rational explanation and, yes, a place where people know that I'm not just wilfully abusing myself by staying in a relationship that was doing me harm. I knew I had to get out and kept asking myself what more I felt I needed to learn that was keeping me in?

It's helpful just reading other people's experiences of similar states of confusion engendered by similar dynamics.

So, thank you for existing!

[Mutt]

With my 'good' therapist (the expensive one) I focussed on me only, with the less good (cheaper) one I got advice to get the hell out.

 I think that's smart.

I also think that family and friends may want to protect us. Do they suspect that he is mentally ill? I turned to family and friends too but the advice that was given to me wasn't practical in a relationship with someone that is mentally ill. My therapist would tell me to "extend the olive branch" but a pwBPD need a lot of validation because they have a very critical inner voice.

I agree it can feel like there's a third person with how our ex partners see us as all good one day and all bad the next day. I was confused with how she could switch from one to other because I didn't understand the reason why. Why is she so angry at me? What did I do to trigger anger? I was walking on eggshells and I think that you have to go through the experience to be able to empathize with someone. Some people in real life understand how difficult divorce can be to go through because they have lived it.

My pleasure. I'm glad to know now what I didn't know throughout my marriage that there are people out there going through the same stuff and they understand. It feels good to know that you're not alone.

[Trip09]

Thank you so much for post!

Im so glad to have found this site. glad to have found it. Everyone is so understanding, caring and only too happy to offer support and advice.

Reading that post gives me so much hope. Although I feel I am getting better day by day, it still is hard to let her go. Hearing you say “Trust me, I cried buckets and fought with every fiber of my being to cut her out” I feel ya! But hearing how you have pulled it all together and moved into a truly beautiful part of life, with a caring partner only gives more hope and determination to keep moving forward.

Thank you for your words. I’m so sorry you had to experience this, but if anything take away that your words here have helped me immensely 

You can read my story in this post here.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=287803.0

thanks brother, all the happiness to you!

[ProKonig]

I think it's natural to feel that way. Just remember, your ex does move on quickly it's a natural defence mechanism. BPDs often NEED to be with someone. If you've done all you can, you shouldn't beat yourself up and worry. Just hope the next person has the strength to combat it. If you care for your ex and care for yourself you have to realise it's not a battle you can always win and hope they will find the strength they need to be happy in the future.

If it's over for you, focus on yourself and walk away focusing on what you have learned and how you will heal. A healthy attitude to the break up is necessary. Take some positives away. You may be sad, but you are also free. Find something truly fulfilling for you. This experience makes us truly understand ourselves more and what we want from our partners. It also helps us be more understanding. It may not seem it now, but if you exit this in the right way, you'll come out stronger than ever at creating an amazing loving relationship!

Good luck, you can do it OP! :D

[VitaminC]

Thank you, ProKonig, for your words.

My brain accepts the accepting and calm things you say calmly. My feelings are in sync with my brain, for the moment.

I know you're right. This is the time to apply the mind to the emotions, it really is.

Be well

[VitaminC]

Do they suspect that he is mentally ill?

Hello again,

I think his family are not inclined to think along those lines; from what I know of them and have seen of their interaction, they work pretty hard to keep up a courteous and easy-going interaction between all of them.

It sounds as if the dad, who passed away a couple of years ago, very definitely had BPD and some of the stories I've heard are shocking. The family appear to deny the reality of most of that too and it's hard to have any sense of what any of the group really think or feel about things. There is a kind of "appropriate behaviour" going on all the time that seems, to me, to be about denying any of the difficult stuff.

I think they just think of him as very intelligent and a bit prickly at times. I think that any incidents that point to something deeper or darker get quashed.

As for friends, the only ones I've met or know of seem to be less friends in the terms I would use than acquaintances with whom specific interests are shared. Insofar as any personal stuff is spoken about, as it's been reported to me by him, it seems to be, again, about specific issues - relationship problems, substance abuse, depression - but, now that I think of it, never would all of these be put into the mix. So the underlying issues that may be there probably never get a chance to appear.

[Penelope35]

Hello Vitamin C. Your story sounds a lot like mine! Even the comments made by your friends I as well knew from the early beginning that there were some emotional issues going on. I knew a little about BPD but at the beggining I found a lot of ways to convince my self that he didn't have it. He never showed any signs of cheating or moving on to someone else during our break ups and never talked about any change in his emotions towards me. Especially after his last come back where he and the relationship in general seemed to be more "normal" than ever, I totally ruled out the possibility of BPD.  But only until the next break up... .

this time I decided that I wouldn't sit down and talk to him about his mistake of breaking up for the wrong reasons since the feelings were there as he said and instead I started researching more about BPD. When I came across this page where you can read stories from people who were involved with BPD individuals of different severities within the BPD spectrum, I think I came to the conclusion that he has BPD or traits of it at least.

Knowing this helps me? I think it does and it probably will help me more after I manage to detach emotionally but at this point I find myself feeling sorry for him and trying to find ways tohelp him very often. I have this constant thought that it's so sad that he wanted to make it work but he couldn't... .

I too am worried about when I am going to be replaced cause it's going to hurt me if I find out. At the same time, I can't imagine him moving on so quickly. It has been a month since the break up now. He send me a message this past Monday to say he is thinking of me. I also know that he was alone for two years before we got together. At least that was he said but I do believe him. So maybe not all go straight out to find the replacement? I don't know... .maybe that's just my wishful thinking... .

[VitaminC]

... .at this point I find myself feeling sorry for him and trying to find ways to help him very often. I have this constant thought that it's so sad that he wanted to make it work but he couldn't... .

I too am worried about when I am going to be replaced cause it's going to hurt me if I find out. At the same time, I can't imagine him moving on so quickly.

Hi Penelope,

Thanks for your message. I find in the days running up to Christmas I am really relying on, and so glad to have, this site and forum as a resource. It feels like I'm catching up with myself so quickly. Like all the things I noticed and felt and thought are stitching themselves together into a map I can finally read.

There's a lot of sadness to process, but thankfully not really any anger anymore. I hope that's done. Sadness is the next stage and I don't want to go back to being angry at him or at myself.

There are two things I wanted to say to you; one about friends understanding and the other about your impulse to help.

I found with friends that with some of them I felt, at some point, that I was justifying myself in a way that made me uncomfortable and a bit resentful. I felt I was being judged for staying in a relationship that was bad for me and that I was somehow simply weak for doing so. Both of these women friends would describe themselves as radical feminists and I think viewed everything that was happening through that particular filter. While I knew it was motivated out of care for me, I also saw that the picture they had was not complete and was one-sided. I knew that they were ultimately right in their view of what I should do (just stop) but I still had to get there at my own pace and for my own reasons. For that I kept thinking that I had to "understand" the whole thing. They thought that was an excuse I was making for staying in, similar to what many people in abusive relationships do.

Since finding this site I have the understanding I've been needing. It was a long process.

First, before even coming here, I found myself stepping back for about a month and just watching what was going on. I let myself be treated whatever way he was feeling and recognized how little I was actually doing to create any of the little situations that occurred. I guess I took myself out of the dynamic, as much as it's possible when there are two people. I realised that his jealousy and constant monitoring of me had very little (nothing, actually) to do with my interests and just a need to know where I was and who I was with at every moment. When we were actually together, I felt pretty much invisible to him. Socializing with him was interesting too while I was in this mode - I saw how he adapts himself to whoever he's with and how much more other people responded to me than he did. I saw, basically, how little he actually cared about me and how much he just wanted to be seen with me and present that kind of image of himself to the world.  That helped me a lot. It hurt, a bit, but it was really helpful. Once I had the evidence, I couldn't not act on it anymore.

On the subject of 'helping'. That one is really loaded. Every situation is different, of course, and I don't know what your particular one is. But be careful of that whole helping thing.  That sucked me back into the vortex a couple of times and I became watchful of that one about a year ago. I started to see that no matter how much or in what way I helped, it never seemed to lead to a deeper or more peaceful co-existence.  It might bring us closer for a short while, but pretty soon the insecurity would be at high level again and it was as if I had never shown that I was committed to him. It felt to me that things we did together or for each other would just disappear into thin air instead of becoming part of who we were as a couple. What should have become solid ground, a foundation, always felt like shifting sands, or shifting blocks of ice like in those images of the polar seas. You know what I mean?

Talking about stuff was always frought. It became impossible months ago. He would nitpick on the language I used, on the tone of voice, on my logical framing, anything. We would spend so long talking about the formulation of my point that we never got to what I was actually trying to say. And if I asked a question about his feelings or thoughts he would just ignore the question completely. I mean he would just be silent.   If I pointed that out, he would use my point to start another round of the language I had used to make that point.   Actually, I should write a short play between two characters using the conversations verbatim! It would be a tragi-comedy, I guess. Absurd, funny, sad.

Anyway, I meant to say about helping - be careful of the difference between helping and enabling. That feeling of obligation and guilt can be so strong. Make sure it's being reciprocated in some way, otherwise it's all you and you are not his mom or his therapist.

As for finding out about a replacement - that's always hard in a relationship. You're lucky, I feel, if you've not come across anything in a whole month. Make it stay that way by making yourself blind to his life - that's what I am trying to do.

Good luck, Penelope, and take care.

[ProKonig]

Haha, Vitamin C!

That's so true. You just want to see a transcript of some of the conversations sometimes and realise how insane they are. How pointless. It's so hard to step back and say, 'Wait, what the hell is this? This is going nowhere... .bye bye!' when you're trapped in it.

To engage or not to engage, that is the question. That was Shakespeare right?

A: What's up, you look down, do you need to talk?

B: *silence*/no... .

A: Okay, well, I'm here for you and willing to listen

B: *insert irrational accusation*

A: *decision time: engage in conversation / validate / walk away because it's a 13th time it's happened this month*

If you engage:

A: I disagree because X, Y and Z. But, *insert validation comment*

B: Well how about *insert irrational comment*

A: I disagree because X, Y and Z. But, *insert validation comment*

Repeat until the conversation becomes truly delusional and behaviour has spiralled out of control. Eventually a boundary will be broken. Highlight breaking of boundary and initiate response... .this leads to potential break up and/or erratic desperate behaviour.

Repeat until:

- A seeks professional help themselves and improves

- They break up with you

- You break up with them

We keep playing the game until our safety (mental or physical) and love is exhausted. Protect yourself and hope for the best! We can only control our own actions. The key message... .we are always here for you until you smash the boundaries to pieces or don't want us. As long as they know the boundaries right?

I'd love to see your conversation-template, Vitamin-C! X)

[VitaminC]

Haha, Vitamin C!

That's so true. You just want to see a transcript of some of the conversations sometimes and realise how insane they are. How pointless. It's so hard to step back and say, 'Wait, what the hell is this? This is going nowhere... .bye bye!' when you're trapped in it.

To engage or not to engage, that is the question. That was Shakespeare right?

Repeat until the conversation becomes truly delusional and behaviour has spiralled out of control.

Repeat until:

- A seeks professional help themselves and improves

- They break up with you

- You break up with them

Oh ProKonig, oh guys whoever have read this and taken any encouragement from it. I've been thinking for days whether to come back here and confess my folly. I've decided it's worth it to see if it helps me, and perhaps it will help others, rather than discourage.

Maybe we all need to read more success stories rather than bemoaning our hard lot here in these forums, maybe we need to get properly angry at the unfairness and stay that way long enough to get truly away, maybe we need to not understand our weakness so thoroughly and better understand our strength. If you think that may be the case, please stop reading now.  What follows won't do you any good. Quell your curiosity and move on.

Readers, I relented on Christmas Day. After admiring how pretty I'd made my house, how cozy and cheerful and peaceful, how crackly the fire was, how warm and calm the atmosphere. After spending an hour with a close friend on the phone and wishing each other a sweet day, I watched my hand compose a short but warm text message telling him that I knew he didn't believe it but that I *saw* him and that I loved him, that this was hard, that I hoped we'd both be ok. When I got no answer for an hour I couldn't leave it alone, I had to know that he was alright and sent another message saying 'Please let me know you're ok'.

The answer was immediate:

'I'm not'.

I asked 'What are you doing'

And a moment later 'Come. Eat. I can't stand it.'

He sent two short messages; one quoting back at me what I'd said during our break-up talk a week before and the other about the first words out of his daughter's mouth the other day being a question whether they'd be seeing me that day because she had a present for me.

I said "come. be peaceful with me."

He said "I keep telling people we've broken up. I feel like an idiot"

I said "You're angry"

He said " I say come. You don't. You say come. I jump?"

I said "It's not like that. I'm inviting you. You do not have to come. It's ok"

He said "I can bring pretzels"

[ I thought, I've been reading and thinking all week. I understand the disorder. I have some pretty clear insights into how I contribute to his insecurities, of my narcissistic tendencies, my caretaking tendencies. I know how to defuse, how to communicate more neutrally. I can do this and stay balanced and not veer off my own path too much. I can do it ]

I said "They'll do"

I said "I don't want to argue today. We can talk, but I don't want conflict. I'm not angry."

He came an hour later and the moment he walked in he was hostile. He told me he'd spent the last three days in bed, masturbating to porn [yes, thank you for that information]. It's something he feels deeply ashamed about, even though I personally don't actually see it as a big deal, which I've told him many times. His telling me was designed to show his disgust with himself and, more to the point, to blame me for that self-disgust. My heart sank, but I offered him a glass of wine. To which he replied "what, with my drinking problem?". He has a drinking problem, a fact he's aware of but which I dared to reference a couple of weeks ago for the first time ever.

If only the human memory worked like instant playback. If only the entire transcript was available to me. I am not sure who would stay the course and read the insane and absurd twists and turns, but someone might. I might.

He said such things. I was unbalanced, it was my hormones, he had determined having given it some thought. I had been unfair, malicious, hurtful. He remembered things from months ago and presented it as evidence. No conversation we might have had about it seemed to have made any impact, no explanation from me made any difference to his view of it.

I listened, fairly calmly, and concentrated on not letting my emotions become engaged. On just listening and hearing the panicky, wounded, 2 year old.

He claimed I asked questions to avoid stating my own position. He claimed I was unreasonable. I don't know what else. Oh yes, he told me that he'd not given my gift to his daughter. I felt the tears spring up but held them back and just said "why?". He shrugged his shoulders and said "I didn't feel like it".

He also said that he'd been ok when I texted him. When he said that, I engaged, and said "oh. when I texted earlier you'd said you were not ok. Do you remember? Now you are saying you were ok.". His face was actually hilarious as he tried to find fault with the sentence and finally it settled into an expression of a cornered child and he said "So?".   

How in the hell did I not tell him to leave? Because I've got used to these conversations.

Because I inevitably appeal to his logic, his very sharp and analytical mind. A friend of mine said that once when she was talking to him something about emotions came up, perhaps within a film or book or something, and that the experience she had was that his mind changed as if from a Ferrari to a tractor. Just grinding along slowly and painfully.

That's actually a brilliant description of what happens. Something I've been aware of since I met him, but I was intrigued rather than terrified, as I ought to have been. He appreciated my "vast emotional intelligence and sensitivity", the way I just understood things and responded naturally - of course that fed into my need to be appreciated and seen. That this very intelligent person should be in awe of me; well, it felt good, I guess. Not just any old lump telling me I'm great, but a lump whose opinion I hold in regard, for all the wrong reasons.  I have to be honest.

Anyway, appealing to logic and trying to be rational DOES NOT WORK when it comes to any emotive topic. Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist by Margalis Fjelstad, PhD says so. Among others who say so. It's true.

So for hours we went in circles by the fireside on Christmas Day. He stayed over, might as well tell you all, to make my confession complete. In the strong moonlight of the night I watched his face in bed, as I've so often done, and saw the anger in every line. I said "god, you're so angry with me. I feel as if you not only don't love me, but that you dislike, no, actually hate me." I was more bemused than anything else when I said it.

He said some more hurtful things, unrelated to anything I'd said. He didn't respond to my last comment. And so we fell asleep, eventually. In the morning he left. I said, "well, merry christmas" and he snorted lightly in response.

People, that is no way to be in the world. For either him or me.

I do have one last confession. Christ, might as well really show what I'm made of. Even though I see it all, know it all, want to be rid of it all, I also have a very strong possessive quality and am suspicious of someone I know who has her eye on him.   This knowledge kills me. I try to reason it out, but the feeling is very strong.

I have to somehow stop all this. I know all the ways. I'll just have to go back to doing them.  I don't mean not keeping an eye on his social media or any of that. I've not the slightest desire to do that. But just imagining and wondering.

I'm meeting him shortly, just to see his daughter. I'll take her off for an hour, just the two of us, while he meets "someone".   After this, I think I must be no-contact.

I have a small bag of his things. It would make sense to bring them. I don't know if I will.       

Don't judge me too harshly, if you've read to the end. 

[blackbirdsong]

Don't judge me too harshly, if you've read to the end.  

No need, you are "doing a great job" regarding the self-judgement. Just like we all do in our cases.

Stay strong. Because you are. I remember your great advices on this board. It helped me a lot.

[Helen8]

Dear Vitamin C,

Thank you for your post. It was really honest and open... .I found it helpful as I also have an ex-partner with BPD and am coming to terms with my addiction to this person.

[ProKonig]

Don't worry Vitamin C, I think you'll find there isn't too much judgement on this board!

Just one piece of advice that might help start to establish some more control for yourself. If you do see him again, don't let it be at your place. You have more control over leaving if you're at his and have somewhere to go back to.

Keep up with the self analysis, understanding our own actions and focusing on how we can make decisions that protect ourselves is important.

[VitaminC]

Just one piece of advice that might help start to establish some more control for yourself. If you do see him again, don't let it be at your place. You have more control over leaving if you're at his and have somewhere to go back to.

Good advice, ProKonig, thank you. And thank you to you and the others who didn't judge me. I think being judged is the surest way to pain and non-achievement, and I do it naturally myself - in a very deep way, even thought I KNOW what's going on because I've been thinking about this stuff for years.

I didn't bring his bag of stuff. He didn't bring the gifts so the daughter and I could exchange them. So we'll meet tomorrow morning.  I'm going to take the child again and do something fun with her for an hour or so and then say good bye. I've decided to drop a friendly note in the mother's house just telling her that she knows where I live and to feel free to communicate with me if the daughter ever asks for me.  I'll give him his things and say 'happy new year in advance' and move off.

Then I will put ALL my effort into keeping him out of my mind and forcing my mind to concentrate on the big project I'm working on, which I've not been keeping up with at all.

I've decided I will just use all my old coping mechanisms [gird myself, throw myself into things, tell myself I'm pretty amazing and don't need headwrecks in my life, etc] until I gradually replace them with new, healthier, ones.

I will never again be swept away by someone else's admiration of me. That may be a tall order for me. I'll try. Maybe more realistic is to try and enjoy being admired for the things I actually value, rather than the thngs that are to do with image and the things I think I ought to value (academic and artistic achievement). I suppose that's where the self-knowledge, and more pressingly in my case, self-acceptance will help me a lot .

Much as I hate the cliches about journeys and paths and all the rest of it, it really feels that way. I'm on the open sea and the shore is receding and it's frightening, but maybe I can re-conceptualize myself as an explorer, and adventurer, and head into the gales of the big ocean expecting magical discoveries on the way.

Let's see.

 

[didionit]

I respect and admire your willingness to make yourself vulnerable here, and to share what we all know--how hard this is.  And how we're only human.  And, how the very act of self-care can make you feel good enough that you forget that trying to transmit some of that same sense of goodness to someone who cannot receive it can land you right back in the thick of the confusion and blame and non-logic that our BPD ex partners excel at.

I also broke NC on Christmas Eve, in response to a baiting text from my ex (really, sending me a song that lets me know that you'll 'always love me' while posting post-coital photos of yourself and your new lover on social media, and then, sending me a long-winded text barrage about how I'd been 'untrue'?) and fell into the same argument that he and I have had oh... .about a million soul-grinding times.  And, all I could do, afterwards, shaking with rage and frustration, was to soothe myself with starting over, with self care, and telling myself, as you have here, that I have the tools to make this better.  And that all I can do is practice, until they feel less heavy.

I hope you're continuing to be kind to yourself, and, know that we've all been there.  No one is judging you.   

[VitaminC]

I respect and admire your willingness to make yourself vulnerable here, and to share what we all know--how hard this is.  And how we're only human.  And, how the very act of self-care can make you feel good enough that you forget that trying to transmit some of that same sense of goodness to someone who cannot receive it can land you right back in the thick of the confusion and blame and non-logic that our BPD ex partners excel at  

Thank you for this.

I just want to describe our last meeting. I seem to need to keep talking about it.

We met so the daughter and I could exchange Christmas gifts, finally. He seemed to be in good spirits and acted as if everything was 'normal'. He was on a call on his mobile as they approached, so I took the daughter's hand and we skipped off to the cafe in the middle of a small shopping centre ( I know, yuck).

We ordered at the counter, it turned out they didn't accept cards for payment so I had to run off to a bank machine 20 yards away. I seated the daughter, told her I'd be right back, and ran off. On my way back, he was approaching me with a smile. I don't know what he wanted. He obviously didn't really know what to do with himself and couldn't get it together to ask if he should come in a while or join us.  I smiled back and said "I'm just paying, I had no cash in my wallet". I should have made it easier for him, I guess, and answered his unasked question about joining us, but I was always doing that and didn't have it in me right then. Everything I did or said had been wrong somehow for months and I had just given up on trying at this point.

I rejoined daughter and we chatted. He stopped by the table and when neither of us really acknowledged him right away, he said something to himself about needing to make a call and wandered off. About ten minutes later he came back and sat down with us.

We opened our presents. He watched, uninterested.

I asked him a question brightly that didn't require a long answer. Something boring. I chatted with the daughter some more. She had told me she was going to be spending the night with her cousins and was excited about that. So I knew he would be alone this evening. But he seemed to be in good spirits.

Obviously, having vented some of his rage at me on Christmas Day, he'd recovered himself enough to act as if he was in control. Who knows what was actually going on in him or his head?

Then it was time to go and we walked towards our cars. As I was saying good-bye to the daughter he asked if I could hold on for a minute because her aunt was collecting the daughter at the other entrance. I said "sure" and waited.

After a few minutes he came back, passed me a book he had promised a friend of mine, and then I can't remember what vibe he gave off. I could have waited, I suppose, to see what he would do or say next, but in case it was something hurtful or dismissive or in some other way crappy, I just said "ok. Listen, I've got some things of yours in the car, if you want them". 

I had texted him the night previous and asked if I should bring a small bag with his things. He answered 12 hours later: "No. Don't do that."  I knew that it meant he didn't want to have that finality and also knew that he might give reasons like "not in front of the daughter".   I decided to ignore the instruction and bring his things anyway, just in case the moment presented itself. 

He asked why I had done that. When he'd asked me not to. If there was some kind of dramatic urgency. I said "no, it's not like that. I just thought you might want your things".

He stood for a moment and then walked away. I didn't know if he was leaving the conversation or walking towards my car, if I was meant to follow him or not. I decided to follow. A few steps later I took the initiative and said "my car's over here" and walked towards it. He followed me. I opened the back and took out the bag.

He stood there with it, again looking a bit broken, getting wet in the torrential rain, in the parking lot of a very unremarkable shopping centre. God, it's a film scene. The pathos is not lost on me.

I couldn't leave him there. What was I meant to do? Get in the car, back out slowly while he walked away to his own car, with not another word passing between us? Probably that, but I couldn't.

I said "do you want to sit in the car for a minute?"

We sat in the car.

He was angry. I shouldn't have brought his things. He'd asked me not to. I'd spoiled the gift exchange for him. That had been nice and now I had gone and spoiled it.

I explained, calmly. I didn't say that actually it WAS a matter of dramatic urgency because it hurt me to have his things in my house. Why didn't I? Because I wasn't thinking of it in that way at that point. I don't know what difference it would have made anyway.

I said more things, also calmly. I told him I loved him. The person inside and so many of the more superficial trappings. That despite all the synchronicities between us, we just didn't fit. I needed things that were not in his arsenal. That it wasn't fair or logical for me to keep looking for those things from someone who didn't have them. That despite my outward control, I was actually very sad. That I would be taking some time to process. I remembered one of the first times we met being somewhere near this damnable mall. I remembered the walk we took through a nearby park and what he talked about and how I bounded around the place because I was so excited somehow. How amazed I'd felt to have met him and connected with him.

I wanted to end it peacefully, kindly, lovingly, honouring us both and our whatever pain we were in.

I know he doesn't get it. At all.  I know all that will happen next. I know none of it is connected to me.

And still, I am crying as I type this.

[didionit]

I wanted those things too, so very much--and every time we recycled our break up, over the past six months now, I would work so hard to get to a place where I felt like we had reached an understanding of what had gone wrong, why it was over, and were able to forgive and wish one another well... .only to wake up to more vitriol a few days later.  With all hope at kindness shredded through the wringer of his dysfunction.  So, when the inevitable happens, just know that you're heard and seen here, and that your efforts to achieve peace can be about you forgiving yourself, regardless of whatever ugliness is headed your way.

 

[VitaminC]

So, when the inevitable happens, just know that you're heard and seen here, and that your efforts to achieve peace can be about you forgiving yourself, regardless of whatever ugliness is headed your way.

 

Hey, thank you for kind words.  But the quoted sentence scares me a little, I have to admit. 

I already know I'm the bad guy and that nothing good or sweet or helpful or loving that I have done or said throughout our entire relationship will now be remembered. It's gone into a black hole and all that remains is my unfairness, lack of regard, and god knows what else I can be blamed for.

At least the Christmas Day experience showed me that just because he looks (and is, I guess) deeply sad at one point, it does not mean that he will stay that way. The sadness doesn't seem to lead to any reflection, or if it does, the usefulness of it is very short-lived.

I hope he won't come back angry again. I think he may just be stiff with hostility and studiously polite if we encounter each other. I hope that's it. I've prepared myself for seeing him with someone else and I'm prepared for occasional sentimental outbursts from me (which I've prepared myself to keep to myself).

Just today I thought of all the things I've given him; his house is full of things I either gave as gifts or didn't want but wanted him to have. I imagined arriving home in the rain one day and finding a giant disintegrating cardboard box full of all the things. Every last trinket, including some very thoughtful and beautiful gifts. I thought about how that would feel, and imagined myself slowly putting them into the rubbish bin and then calling for an early collection. So maybe I'm prepared for that degree of hateful pettiness too.

But I'm not prepared for anything else. I can't think what other nasty things he might think of doing. I don't know.

I'm glad though, that I can write about it here as well as talk to my close friends about it. So thank you again didionit

[ProKonig]

It's the heartbreak of this disorder... .you know the person you fell in love with can be there at times. But as BPD relationships develop we know they get more intense and the pain and hurt sometimes become too much to bare. Sometimes people bare through too much and break themselves in the process. The times when it is tough, remind yourself why you made the decision.

We can learn about ourselves and learn the best strategies to help our partners, but there's only so much we can do as things progress.

On the brink of one break up when I was about to leave my partner suddenly calmed, knowing it was the end for good reason. She knows she can't control herself and I think she knew it was too much for me, I'd broken. She said goodbye to me... .and like you, I wanted to leave on good terms, knowing that we'd battled hard and done our best. had some great times and there was still love there. I hugged her to say good bye one last time and she said, "I'll always remember this moment... .being here in your arms." Pretty poetic for a non-native speaker (Japanese). That broke me more than all the hate she could throw my way. How could I leave?

It hasn't been plain sailing from there. We had our worst breakdown only a few weeks ago, which is why I'm now on this forum. She shows me enough though... .enough to know I can ride the storms. Enough to know there can be periods of real happiness and at the end, if we both work hard enough there might even be some genuine calm waters.

We have our most touching moments after the dysregulation mostly. It's not uncommon I guess. But like you say... .we remember them, sometimes it feels like they don't. I think we have to keep analysing for ourselves; are we hoping for a return to clear waters (the early stages of the relationship) or do we see a route to them? It's an important question, and sometimes we're navigating in the wrong direction.

If you don't see the path anymore, you've made the right call. Remind yourself of that.