Cruelty... a BPD trait?

[Depression = 72% of members]

In many relationships I feel as though I have been subjected to some very cruel games.  Because I have felt so much cruelty I cannot inflict it on someone, in fact I'm afraid of hurting people... .it's just not in my nature.   Is being cruel to someone who has made themselves vulnerable a trait of someone with BPD?

Here are a few examples:

1. An ex boyfriend, once kept writing me emails about how he was extremely happy in his life with his new girlfriend and that his life had done a 180 and that, it was Ok because in the end he didn't really regret the 4 years he and I had spent together.  This was after I had told him that I did not want him writing to me about his new relationship because it was hurtful.

2. A friend of mine, in a very manipulative and almost maniacal way, laughed at me after I had told her that I had suffered in my childhood, and tried to tell me I was off my rocker and that my family were perfectly kind people... .even though she had barely even met them.

3. My uBPD mother, when she saw that I was pursuing a dream, and developing a specific skill which takes years and years to succeed in, told me that my sibling was actually the talented one in the skill set (even though my sibling had never even remotely expressed any interest in that activity).  This has been done repeatedly actually, for various skills and talents, which I would practice, but for which credit would be given to my sister.

These are a few examples that I find are particularly hurtful, but each time I was able to see them for what they were because I had been honest with who I was.  But for these people I find that there is no end to their meanness, and desire to inflict pain and suffering onto others.  Is this something that is characteristic of people with BPD?

[caughtnreleased]

In many relationships I feel as though I have been subjected to some very cruel games.  Because I have felt so much cruelty I cannot inflict it on someone, in fact I'm afraid of hurting people... .it's just not in my nature.   Is being cruel to someone who has made themselves vulnerable a trait of someone with BPD?

Here are a few examples:

1. An ex boyfriend, once kept writing me emails about how he was extremely happy in his life with his new girlfriend and that his life had done a 180 and that, it was Ok because in the end he didn't really regret the 4 years he and I had spent together.  This was after I had told him that I did not want him writing to me about his new relationship because it was hurtful.

2. A friend of mine, in a very manipulative and almost maniacal way, laughed at me after I had told her that I had suffered in my childhood, and tried to tell me I was off my rocker and that my family were perfectly kind people... .even though she had barely even met them.

3. My uBPD mother, when she saw that I was pursuing a dream, and developing a specific skill which takes years and years to succeed in, told me that my sibling was actually the talented one in the skill set (even though my sibling had never even remotely expressed any interest in that activity).  This has been done repeatedly actually, for various skills and talents, which I would practice, but for which credit would be given to my sister.

These are a few examples that I find are particularly hurtful, but each time I was able to see them for what they were because I had been honest with who I was.  But for these people I find that there is no end to their meanness, and desire to inflict pain and suffering onto others.  Is this something that is characteristic of people with BPD?

[Kwamina]

Hi caughtnreleased

I am sorry you had these unpleasant experiences. Do you believe your ex and that friend you mention also have BPD?

I think a lot of people do cruel things, disordered and also non-disordered people. One problem people with BPD often have is that they find it hard to empathize, find it hard to truly sense and understand someone else's feelings and what the other person is going through.

What your mother did was hurtful indeed. It could be that she felt threatened by your talent and tried to bring you down so she could feel less threatened. This could be related to the intense fear of abandonment many people with BPD struggle with. Would you say your mother also struggles with abandonment issues?

Another thing that comes to mind is the BPD behavior known as 'splitting'. The way you describe what was going on, sounds like maybe your mother was splitting the two of you and treating your sister as the 'all-good' child and you as the 'all-bad' child. When you look at your mother and how she has treated you and your sister through the years, do you feel like she was splitting the two of you into all-good and all-bad categories?

It is good that you were able to see these incidents for what they were which hopefully made it somewhat easier for you to not take what was being said that personally. It is still difficult though since all these incidents are about people you were at least at one time very close to.

[Notwendy]

I have considered the possibility that my mother is sociopathic. It's hard to know what is BPD and what is just plain cruel, what she can control and what she can't. At times, she seems to get satisfaction from being manipulative and hurtful and at times even brags about it. I could write a long list.

Perhaps it is because it gives her some sense of control. Another idea is that she projects her own pain. People who are hurting are known to hurt others.


When it all comes down to it, it would take a lot of mental energy to figure her out and I have other things I would rather be thinking about. I can't possibly know what kind of Karma is going on with her. The best I can do is take steps to not be hurt by what she says and does.

This isn't easy, but it takes two to result in hurt feelings. If I take on a victim position " she hurt my feelings" , then I feel as if I have no control over my choices, but I do. I can consider that what she says about me, isn't really about me. It is about her. That is probably more true than it is about me. With some work, it has gotten to a point where, I am still irritated sometimes, but not so much hurt by what she says and does. She has caused some harm in terms of relationships, spoken poorly of me to some of her friends and family, and I have grieved the loss of those relationships. It does hurt in the moment. In the long run though, I wonder what is the basis of them if what she says can influence them so much.

We can choose who we wish to be close to. Sure those emails can hurt, but the relationship with that person is over and you can delete them. Why is he communicating these things with an ex anyway if he is so "happy"? What kind of a friend laughs at your hurt? You can choose who to be friends with, and perhaps these people are not friends you would choose. Your mother is your mother, but you don't have to see her comments as being about you.

[GeekyGirl]

Hi caughtnreleased,

It's really hard to say--not all cruel people have BPD and vice versa. It's definitely not unheard of for someone with BPD to be cruel.

One problem people with BPD often have is that they find it hard to empathize, find it hard to truly sense and understand someone else's feelings and what the other person is going through.

Absolutely! The lack of empathy may make someone with BPD say, "Well, they deserved it," or something like that. The person with BPD may feel like he/she is righting a wrong with cruel behavior.  (The tv character Dexter, who is not likely BPD, comes to mind)

You may find, as you learn about BPD, that as a child of a mother with BPD that you formed relationships with people that aren't as empathetic or healthy as others. That was a real eye-opener for me personally. As you learn more, you'll start to recognize others' behaviors and how they make you feel, and as you get stronger yourself, you'll want healthier friendships and relationships. Kind people don't dismiss others' pain or actively try to hurt others. Notwendy has a good point too: you can't choose your mom, but you can choose your SO and your friends going forward.

[Notwendy]

One observation I have of my mother is that she tends to personalize things and see herself as a victim. So when she is acting cruel, in her mind it is justified for what someone has done to her.

We need to be mindful of how we can erroneously take things personally too. This is a trait I learned growing up. I would think " how can she be so cruel to ME? " but it wasn't about me. It was about how she perceived things, ironically that I was doing them to HER. One example is a story she tells about how, as a toddler, I threw up on HER. ON PURPOSE! She could have seen it as a toddler with a tummy ache who had no control of it, but she made it about her.

The drama triangle has been one of the most useful tools for me to understand the dysfunction in my family. People participate in each role because there is a payoff to each of them, even if there is an emotional cost. Mom's preferred role is "Victim". The role my father and I took on mostly was "Rescuer". The payoff for "Victim" is not taking responsibility for one's actions, after all, if one is a victim one is helpless, and if the victim fights back ( is cruel) then to them it is justified behavior for being mistreated. If I came at my parents from a position of "Victim"- ie "you hurt me", I was perceived as a persecutor. There can not be two victims, and mom was already the victim. So, asking why they hurt me would likely provoke a rage.

We can't choose our parents but we can choose our SO's and friends. Ironically, many of us end up choosing people who feel more familiar to us, as these roles are strangely comfortable, even if they are dysfunctional. It's a big incentive to us to get counseling and work on emotional growth not only to help us relate to our FOO's but also everyone else.

If we find ourselves in a pattern of choosing friends who are cruel to us, then it is an opportunity for us to change.

[HappyChappy]

Some good responses, I would agree with all that went before.

I read an account from a BPD that said their actions were simply to get what they wanted, so cruelty was a bi product (but you'd expect that answer). In law, Malice of for thought is considered an important measure of cruelty, in that it requires planning, and a lot of BPD behaviour is instinctive. A NPD or sociopath tends to plan more than a BPD. I have 2 with a PD in my family both pretty evil behavior, but my BPD it’s hard to say if it’s purposeful, with my NPD it most defiantly is. But his cruelty comes from being a Masochist. He really does get off on other people’s pain. Happy Christmas !

[caughtnreleased]

Kwamina, I don't think that my ex had BPD, but I suspect he had some strong NPD traits... .and would have to echo Happy Chappy's opinion that NPDs do get off on other people's suffering. The same ex once made me whisper to him over and over again in the phone that it was my birthday, and pretended he couldn't hear me until I finally figured out he was simply being cruel and I stopped ( I was trying to whisper to avoid the humiliation of those near me hearing that my boyfriend had forgotten my birthday). 

My mother definitely did a lot of splitting, and has the capacity to place the right word at the right time that will cut me down.  Growing up I was often the persecutor, and my mother and sister alternated with the victim role.

And while I don't think my friend has full blown BPD, she has a lot of the traits. I also think that I have surrounded myself with people who are "familiar" - ie: echo some of my mothers personality traits.  I am struggling with this, as I am now able to really see how clearly some of my friends are in fact not friends at all... .So I am seeing these behaviours for what they are.  I have taken steps to distance myself but this friend in question is having some abandonment issues as a result... .hmmm... .maybe she is a bit BPD after all.

I agree with Notwendy about not taking these things personally, although I think the key is to have people around you who are supportive and kind and considerate, so that when I do need support I can get it, otherwise I will burn out... .which is something that has happenned to me in the past. However, healthy people are currently rare in my life and so I do get upset when I find myself bouncing from one cruel and selfish person to the other.  I have been doing some work in order to build friendships with people who are more healthy, but I find it is a long and difficult journey.  I guess the more recent development is that when I see people acting cruel, I cease to engage in their game... .in all three of the situations above I actually disengaged. I cut off emails from the ex, I called my mother out on what she was doing, and I told my friend that I was shocked at her reaction and didn't know what to say.  It stopped them all in their tracks.  What I need to do now though is find people who won't do this kind of stuff in the first place.