Is it really just a matter of perspective?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Sometimes I wonder if it really is just a matter of perspective. Is there really any "truth" when it comes to interpersonal relationships? Can I trust what my therapist or friends tell me when they are only hearing my story, from my viewpoint? Every time I start to try to work on my own life and start growing as person thoughts like these stop me in my tracks. I know my parents think they were good parents. And if my mother asks me I tell her she was. Yet I am dealing with so many holes in my emotional development as a result of my formative years. Or at least this is what my therapist is trying to get through my head. But what if it's just me. What if I really was just the difficult. rebellious child they say I was and they did the best they could with me.

Here's something that's bothering me right now. I do not like being touched much, especially if I am upset. I am learning to reciprocate when my friends hug me, but it's hard for me. I always feel a little panic. But if I am having a bad day and someone looks at me in a very caring way or I feel real compassion from them it will make me get teary. Then if they try to hug me I really do not want that. Even from my husband. I need to gather myself together and get my emotions under control and I cannot do that if someone is touching me.

There have been times when I was crying in front of my mother, usually something to do with my kids. Frustration and exhaustion at times. She has looked at me in a caring way and tried to hug me and I cannot. She will not accept that I need space to regroup when I am upset and immediately shows her wounded to the core face because I don't want to be hugged. And starts crying, not because I am upset, but because I have rejected her.

Am I being cruel? Why does my need for space at these times turn into yet another opportunity to hurt her? What if it's always been me, not her. What if she's tried to show me love and support and I have always rejected it and I am the one who has set up this impossible dynamic? I am sure this is how she feels, so if that is her truth, why is mine more valid?

She rarely tries to contact me anymore, and when I text or facebook message her she seldom replies. I read on here about choosing to go NC with toxic people. What if she considers ME the toxic one? Would I even know if I was? It doesn't seem like people ever know when they are the problem.

I am feeling very lost and like I don't have a right to start taking care of myself until I have settled these things.

[daughterandmom]

Sometimes I wonder if it really is just a matter of perspective. Is there really any "truth" when it comes to interpersonal relationships? Can I trust what my therapist or friends tell me when they are only hearing my story, from my viewpoint? Every time I start to try to work on my own life and start growing as person thoughts like these stop me in my tracks. I know my parents think they were good parents. And if my mother asks me I tell her she was. Yet I am dealing with so many holes in my emotional development as a result of my formative years. Or at least this is what my therapist is trying to get through my head. But what if it's just me. What if I really was just the difficult. rebellious child they say I was and they did the best they could with me.

Here's something that's bothering me right now. I do not like being touched much, especially if I am upset. I am learning to reciprocate when my friends hug me, but it's hard for me. I always feel a little panic. But if I am having a bad day and someone looks at me in a very caring way or I feel real compassion from them it will make me get teary. Then if they try to hug me I really do not want that. Even from my husband. I need to gather myself together and get my emotions under control and I cannot do that if someone is touching me.

There have been times when I was crying in front of my mother, usually something to do with my kids. Frustration and exhaustion at times. She has looked at me in a caring way and tried to hug me and I cannot. She will not accept that I need space to regroup when I am upset and immediately shows her wounded to the core face because I don't want to be hugged. And starts crying, not because I am upset, but because I have rejected her.

Am I being cruel? Why does my need for space at these times turn into yet another opportunity to hurt her? What if it's always been me, not her. What if she's tried to show me love and support and I have always rejected it and I am the one who has set up this impossible dynamic? I am sure this is how she feels, so if that is her truth, why is mine more valid?

She rarely tries to contact me anymore, and when I text or facebook message her she seldom replies. I read on here about choosing to go NC with toxic people. What if she considers ME the toxic one? Would I even know if I was? It doesn't seem like people ever know when they are the problem.

I am feeling very lost and like I don't have a right to start taking care of myself until I have settled these things.

[Kwamina]

Hi daughterandmom,

I think the fact that you are asking yourself these questions and are engaging in some serious self-reflecting, is an important indicator that you aren't 'toxic'. Your soul-searching and self-reflection set you apart from your mother

You are taking a critical look at yourself and might notice certain areas you are struggling on. Perhaps it can help to consider why it is you struggle on these areas. When did these struggles start?

Taking your time and space to gather yourself emotionally isn't something I consider a bad thing. You need to do what you feel is necessary for you, and it sounds like at this point in time you really need this to be able to gather yourself. Perhaps you can work on ways to better communicate this to your loved ones. Here are some words from Pete Walker that I think might also apply here:

"Cultivate safe relationships and seek support. Take time alone when you need it, but don't let shame isolate you. Feeling shame doesn't mean you are shameful. Educate your intimates about flashbacks and ask them to help you talk and feel your way through them."

When you are the child of a BPD parent, you've often for many years have been dealing with a projected version of you stemming from your parent's disordered mind. This projection most likely isn't a reflection of who you really are at all though. After experiencing this for a long time, often since early childhood, it can be very hard to distinguish the 'real' you from the projection. Do you perhaps feel like you have started to identify with the projection to such an extent that you now find it difficult to distinguish your authentic characteristics from the projected ones?

[daughterandmom]

Hi Kwamina,

Thank you for your comforting words. I was really getting myself worked up today 

Perhaps it can help to consider why it is you struggle on these areas. When did these struggles start?

I suppose that when I first started breaking away in my teens from the situation that I honestly felt was going to crush me with the feeling of overwhelming oppressive despair, I was not kind to my parents. As the years have passed I am alternately consumed with guilt over what I put my parents through with my behavior, versus not really knowing what else I could have done and that I just needed to survive. But for them it's always been characterized as my "rebellious stage" when I ran away from home and put them through so much misery. I struggle with that possibly being true.  I have never corrected the story that I just didn't want to live under their rules and I wanted to date etc. For a long time I thought that might be true, even though it never sat right. I couldn't explain the paralyzing gloom and despair and feeling that I would absolutely cease to exist if I did not leave. I have never said, and it would never ever occur to my mother that I had to run away from HER.

But, I feel a lot of guilt and responsibility for them. I know somewhere in my head that I was the kid, and they did not provide an environment that would enable me to grow up and develop properly. Hence the PTSD, depression and severe anxiety. But still, my mother did not rage at me. She did not put me down. She always went on and on about how much she loved me, how smart I was, that I was the only reason she chose to continue living day to day. I read other people's stories on here, and I am not even sure this is BPD. I am still having trouble saying there was abuse. I am just screwed up. I don't even know if that answers your question- sorry.

Perhaps you can work on ways to better communicate this to your loved ones.

So maybe I should come up with something better than "GET OFF OF ME DO NOT TOUCH ME!" ? 

When you are the child of a BPD parent, you've often for many years have been dealing with a projected version of you stemming from your parent's disordered mind. This projection most likely isn't a reflection of who you really are at all though. After experiencing this for a long time, often since early childhood, it can be very hard to distinguish the 'real' you from the projection. Do you perhaps feel like you have started to identify with the projection to such an extent that you now find it difficult to distinguish your authentic characteristics from the projected ones?

I have thought about this, and I have seen you mention it before in other posts. But I really don't know. I have no idea how I would know what was authentic versus projected.

Thank you again for taking the time to read and reply 

[cleotokos]

Hi daughterandmom, I don't have much to add, except that I can relate to how you feel. After I noticed dysfunction in one parent, I began to notice it in a stepparent, and then another parent, then a sibling... .and then I thought, what if it's me? What is more likely, that all of them are the problem, or that I am? But as kwamina said, I think that the fact that you're asking yourself at all means a lot. I agree that it seems that "toxic people" never really have a clue that they are a problem; but I think also at the same time they DO have a clue that they are the problem, on some level, because they will do anything and everything to convince you that they DO NOT have a problem. Self-reflection is just not in their skillset. 

[daughterandmom]

Hi cleotokos 

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and reply. Your reassuring words mean a lot.

I agree that it seems that "toxic people" never really have a clue that they are a problem; but I think also at the same time they DO have a clue that they are the problem, on some level, because they will do anything and everything to convince you that they DO NOT have a problem. Self-reflection is just not in their skillset.

I think I am starting to understand- on one hand my mother always SEEMS to be soul searching, but it's always with a "poor me" twist. i.e. WHY is everyone so ungrateful when all I ever do is sacrifice everything for everyone else, why does everyone treat me like a doormat, why is my life full of people who enjoy causing me pain etc

Am I on the right track?

[cleotokos]

Hi daughterandmom, I think that this does not seem like genuine self-reflection from your mom. She's not asking herself what her role is in all the drama that surrounds her; rather she has it in her head that people are mean to her or bully her or whatever for unknown reasons. It strikes me as sympathy-seeking. Having a pity party for herself makes her feel like she's a good person. She tries so hard, and everyone takes advantage! They abuse her! My mom does the same thing. She's most likely just emotionally incapable of really thinking about and admitting having been wrong. BPDs use manipulations like this to get their emotional needs met.

I left my mother's house at 14 and I know the feeling of despair you speak of. I felt like I would not survive under my mother's crushing depression and anger. Many people here were physically abused but I never was - BPD has different ways of showing in different people. But what you describe about the sympathy-seeking, and using you for validation sounds like waif behaviour - my mom was a waif most of the time. I'm sure the more you read here, the more you'll come across stories similar to yours. 

[Panda39]

Hi daughterandmom,

I picked up on something in your post... .

But, I feel a lot of guilt and responsibility for them. I know somewhere in my head that I was the kid, and they did not provide an environment that would enable me to grow up and develop properly. Hence the PTSD, depression and severe anxiety. But still, my mother did not rage at me. She did not put me down. She always went on and on about how much she loved me, how smart I was, that I was the only reason she chose to continue living day to day. I read other people's stories on here, and I am not even sure this is BPD. I am still having trouble saying there was abuse. I am just screwed up. I don't even know if that answers your question- sorry.

Enmeshment or Emotional Incest is a form of abuse and it sounds like you had some of that going on.  Based on your above comment.  You were a child it was not then and is not now your job or responsibility to keep your mother alive.

Below are a couple of links to more information on Emotional Incest in case you have not heard of the term before. 

https://bpdfamily.com/content/was-part-your-childhood-deprived-emotional-incest

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=127914.0

I also wanted to point out the "Lessons" Links in the box to the right ----> I hope you will check out their contents.

Sending a virtual hug your way  (No stress/No Strings  )

Panda39

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Daughterandmom, 

Welcome to our family here.

My heart is touched by your searching and reaching for the answers to those questions that are going round and round in your head. They are hard, aren't they? Driving us crazy, without answers. But, let me encourage you to take your time first and foremost.

I have had and still do have so many of these same questions. They can drive me insane at times, so much doubting of myself. I had no value in my own perceptions and beliefs. In fact, I didn't know what I believed so much of the time. It is getting better, this understanding of mine, but it has taken time. I wanted me to be fixed right away, but as I settled into T and self seeking, slowly the answers began to come.

As you study, read, and grow, the  will come on. I've often found that gradual awareness is one of the best ways to learn because you take it in deeper through your searching for the answers. And just so you know, I'm glad you are asking these questions! Good for you! 

A book I find very helpful is: Surviving the Borderline Parent. I didn't read a lot of the book at once when I first got it. Just took it slow and kept going over the little bit I could take in at a time.

Keep in touch with us here so we can see how you are doing!

Wools

[Pilpel]

But for them it's always been characterized as my "rebellious stage" when I ran away from home and put them through so much misery.

I could identify with this.  I don't think my mom is BPD.  She's not as self-absorbed and demanding as my BPD SIL, but she shares some odd characteristics with the uBPD woman my brother married --she was emotionally manipulative and invalidating, always saw herself as a victim, lacked good boundaries, and lacked self-awareness about her own faults.  In her old age, she's not manipulative like she used to be, but she is still invalidating.  To avoid writing a long story about it, I'll just say that I always knew my parents were different.  And when I finally adjusted to the fact that my brother was marrying a young woman who I considered truly Bat S' Crazy, I spent a lot of time thinking about WHY he would chose a woman like that.  My brother who was abnormally introverted, had always been the rigidly obedient toward my parents, and lived with my parents until he got married (he was almost 40 years old).

I was considered the rebel because I wanted to be independent, experience the world, make my own mistakes, and I wanted to be normal so badly.   Though I never thought of myself as a rebel.  And I made a lot of mistakes, and did things my parents didn't approve of.  But I learning from it, and I ended up marrying a really wonderful man who is kind to everyone.  I always imagine that my brother would be rewarded in life for being obedient because that's what I was taught would happen. And I wanted to see him have a happy peaceful life.  But the "obedient" brother ended up marrying a contentious woman who makes life difficult and challenging for everyone.  I have to admit, while I've grieved over how his life has turned out, in some ways it's also been very validating.  It's like this realization "Hey, I grew up always feeling like I was the problem.  But I really am the normal one!"

I have to admit, I know that things I did caused my parents pain.  I caused myself pain.  But I had to suffer the things I suffered.  And they had to suffer the things they suffered.  They were very rigid, judgmental, and they always wanted us kids to put on a performance of what good Christians we were.  So they had some responsibility for the pain they felt. 

Anyhow welcome to this board.  I've learned a lot here.  I hope you find it very useful, too!

[Andrea_]

I read on here about choosing to go NC with toxic people.

Do you remember the links for what you read about this?

I ended communication with my sister but I am exploring the idea of loosening it a BIT to help with her kids/my niece and nephew.


I'm so sorry that you are facing these huge dilemmas in light of your mother's behavior. I can't imagine... .I'm so sorry.

[enlighten me]

Hi Daughterandmom

I can relate to not wanting to be hugged. I tense up and don't feel comfortable with it. One thing Ive found though is that with my kids I can relax and accept it and its peaceful and warm and caring.

Is this the same for you?

[daughterandmom]

Hi enlighten me

One thing Ive found though is that with my kids I can relax and accept it and its peaceful and warm and caring.

Yes that is absolutely true.

[Kwamina]

Hi again daughterandmom

I couldn't explain the paralyzing gloom and despair and feeling that I would absolutely cease to exist if I did not leave. I have never said, and it would never ever occur to my mother that I had to run away from HER.

That you felt this way says a lot. Children and teenagers who grew up in a certain environment might not know any better because it is all they knew. Even if you don't like the environment, it is still all you knew and were used to so in that sense felt 'normal'. Yet even then on perhaps a more subconscious level you might still be aware that things in fact aren't 'normal' and that the family dynamics aren't healthy. Although you at the time weren't able to put your experience into words, that paralyzing sense of gloom and despair and fear for your very existence, by itself already says a great deal. Even without saying the words the message was still being very much conveyed.

But still, my mother did not rage at me. She did not put me down. She always went on and on about how much she loved me, how smart I was, that I was the only reason she chose to continue living day to day. I read other people's stories on here, and I am not even sure this is BPD. I am still having trouble saying there was abuse.

Seeing one's own parent as an abuser isn't easy or pleasant, it basically shatters our whole perception of our childhood which is scary because you don't know what will be left after this has happened or what will come in its place.

The highlighted statement by itself is already incredibly abusive since it made you as a child totally responsible for not only your mother's overall well-being, but her willingness to keep on living. This is a huge burden for child to have to bear. How did it make you feel when your mother said this to you? How do you now look back at those statements from her?

So maybe I should come up with something better than "GET OFF OF ME DO NOT TOUCH ME!" ?  

This actually is a start  It might need some tweaking, but you could say this is the 'Assertion' part from the D.E.A.R.M.A.N. response technique, you enforcing a boundary. Going forward it might help to also work on the ':)' and 'E' parts which come before. The ':)' stands for describing what's going on and the 'E' for expressing how you feel about it. To help you express yourself, the S.E.T. technique can be helpful which stands for Support, Empathy and Truth. Before offering your truth, you then first signal 'Support' and demonstrate 'Empathy', this will make it easier to deliver your 'Truth' and can also help you stay more calm yourself. You can read more about S.E.T. here:

S.E.T.: Support, Empathy, Truth

I have thought about this, and I have seen you mention it before in other posts. But I really don't know. I have no idea how I would know what was authentic versus projected.

I had been thinking about this too. Children raised by BPD parents have to deal with the BPD dysfunction from the very start, during their formative years, the years in which we form our identity. So you could perhaps say that we didn't get a chance to discover or develop our 'real' self since what we knew has always been based on what was projected onto us. In a way our identity is formed or based on a projection. This can make it very hard to see ourselves as anything other than this projection.

Distinguishing our 'authentic' parts from the 'projected fantasy' ones can be very valuable, I do believe though that even if we aren't (completely) able to make this distinction, it is still possible to heal and grow. One of our senior member's (Harri) once explored the idea of how our own actions might define us. Keeping this in mind I'd say that your act of self-reflection is something that is defining you and quite possibly the starting point of you re-defining yourself. No matter how you acquired certain characteristics, whether they are 'authentic' or internalized 'projections' stemming from your mother's disordered mind, now in our adult lives we have the possibility to take a critical look at ourselves and any areas we might be experiencing problems on. We can than start to do the work and commit ourselves to working on our issues so we can heal and grow. This is what you are doing right now so I think you are on the right track

Feeling confused is I think part of the territory. Being raised by an abusive parent is a very confusing experience and fully understanding it and healing from it takes time. It can sometimes take considerable time, but I do believe it is possible to make progress. One day at a time, one step at a time