Messy BPDs?

[ProKonig]

This is really minor in the great scheme of things, with some of the crap we deal with. But I just read someone's post where they mentioned how messy their partner was. I know anyone can be messy... .but just out of curiosity, anyone else got a messy BPD partner?

My partner is Japanese. The stereotype of the presentable Japanese is typical and not without merit. In terms of make-up, dress, tidiness in the workplace, it's completely true. Incredibly tidy and clean country. My partner is no different, always looks amazing when she goes out... .in her apartment, different story!

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[Joem678]

My pwBPD is messy. Keeps a lot of clutter. She reminds me a lot of a teenager.  Not very big on maintaining a clean house.  We use to argue about it.  Especially, when we started having a family.  But then I just let it go.

[waverider]

Obligation and responsibility are often lacking in the motivation department.

Impulse, need and instant gratification are overly strong motivators.

Looking after the home behind close doors falls in the former category, while having a good image to the world can be a strong "need" and the praise received is "instant gratification".

A good facade is both their protection and self validation.

It can create a lack of balance and over compensation. It is one of the reasons BPD is one of the hidden disorders

[ProKonig]

Haha, totally true. Anyone had any amazing success changing this? (seems like a battle not with starting)

Everytime I've even made some kind jokey comment like, "Ah, I see your filing system is coming along nicely!" I get an expression like I've accused her to stabbing my pet cat in the eyes (that didn't happen by the way).

[Chilibean13]

My H is a clutterer. He stacks things on top of stacks. He has areas of the house that he has taken over. AND I'm not allowed to touch those areas!

I've often heard that your envinronment is a reflection of what's going on inside. I think his mind is cluttered and it spreads out into his environment.

[waverider]

Haha, totally true. Anyone had any amazing success changing this? (seems like a battle not with starting)

Everytime I've even made some kind jokey comment like, "Ah, I see your filing system is coming along nicely!" I get an expression like I've accused her to stabbing my pet cat in the eyes (that didn't happen by the way).

Not me, only in the way it affects me.

If the motivation is not there it is not there. It can temporarily be overridden on individual issues, but the motivation is simply "need" to have an effect (eg. avoid blame/impress you/prove a point). It doesn't come from a core sense of being responsible so it withers and you end back where you started eventually

[teapay]

My W is also messy, a clutterer and a mini hoarder.  I agree with Chili.  It is a reflection of what is going on inside with the thinking.  The thinking is disorganized and disordered.  Earlier in our marriage she wasn't like this, but as her illness emerged and got worse, her ability to clean and organize became more and more compromised.  Slowly took years. She can do some if it now and then when she is feeling better, but it will fizzle out once some new crisis pops.  If she ever gets better, I think her organization and self discipline would probably return.

[VitaminC]

My ex is messy as hell. Will leave dishes lying around for 2 weeks! If someone calls, the place gets a semi- thorough tidying.

Whoever said that it's like a teenager's room is bang on the money. That's exactly what I thought.

At the start, when he's trying to impress, things will be different. But gradually there's a decline. I've often struggled with myself to not see it as a lack of respect; as someone who couldn't be bothered to make the place look nice for a visit from me.

As you said though, ProKonig, in the greater scheme of things ... .

[ColdEthyl]

Husband wants clean home... .husband is very unclean. Husband complains about home... .does nothing unless people are coming over then it's dysregulation and strife. I have even had him... .after I spent a day cleaning from top to bottom... .tell people that we had coming over to 'excuse the mess' we haven't done anything in weeks.

[Hope26]

Mine is a clutterer too; and like Chilibean, I am not allowed to touch certain areas, lest I throw away something or put it where he can't find it.  He will have stacks of coupons in various places, or receipts for something that he thinks me might need in the future.  I am constantly trying to straighten up, but can only do so much for fear of triggering a dysregulation.  But I agree that in the overall scheme of things, there are more important things to focus on.

[Joem678]

Well, if you had walked into my home when wife was around, she would blend in with teenage kids very well.  :)o you know what I mean?  Not that I cared but it did get to a concerning level.

[waverider]

  I am constantly trying to straighten up, but can only do so much for fear of triggering a dysregulation.  But I agree that in the overall scheme of things, there are more important things to focus on.

I dont tidy my wifes areas of clutter, or as you say, you leave yourself wide open for blame for loosing something. If it has to be cleared it all goes in a box without sorting or throwing anything away, and moved to the shed or somewhere out of the way. If she wants something she can go fetch it.

Often though it is a case of she left the mess so long that organizing it has overwhelmed her, and so is glad I have "removed" the problem, yet reassured nothing has been thrown away so doesn't stress.

Usual result is she then writes off everything contain therein. She can't see it> it no longer matters. Lack of object consistency means its no longer of interest as though it never existed. If she needs anything again she will replace rather than retrieve. so eventually the box goes in the trash untouched. A new pile of trash starts to accumulate... Rinse repeat

[ProKonig]

I loath cleaning up after people. If I have to do all the cleaning because I can't tolerate it anymore I do the bare minimum to deal with other people's mess. Luckily in Japan you can buy some lovely cheap portable storage here which still looks good. I just dump it all in one of these boxes and throw everything into cupboards. I'm glad we have separate apartments! If we end up living together I must address the issue beforehand... .or at least come up with a cunning plan for where I'm gonna dump her junk so it doesn't offend my eyes.

The nightmare is when the BPD gets into a panic about where something is (clothing usually) and trashed everything in the process of looking for it. And doesn't clean up after themselves. Teenager-much!

[ColdEthyl]

My husband's end table is nothing but clutter. His stuff, empty soda bottles, plates, trash, etc.

I do not touch his stuff. I learned this after the first few years where I'd try to clean up and put his stuff up IE his wallet, his belt, his hats, etc. When he would go to find them and couldn't it was my fault because I moved his things. Dysregulation City.

Now, when he can't find his stuff, it's his fault. He still stomps around and huffs and puffs, but not at me. I try to keep a mental tab on where things are, just to avoid that bit if I can, but I don't worry about it anymore. If he wants to find his stuff more consistently, he can clean up his own stuff.

[Cat Familiar]

Yep. Messy. Chaotic. Fortunately he has his own man cave where he can go full bore disaster. Actually it's not too bad, after reading some of your accounts of garbage and old food mixed into their messes. I don't touch his areas. I try not to even notice it. He will clean it up when he thinks other people will see it and then gets frantic and typically hurts himself cleaning.

I keep the house clean and organized or else I'd lose it. My OCDishness can't tolerate too much disorder. To me the orderliness of my environment is a snapshot of my internal state. Currently it's very orderly with a few pockets of untidiness and I can tolerate that, but I look forward to tidying up soon.

[ColdEthyl]

Yep. Messy. Chaotic. Fortunately he has his own man cave where he can go full bore disaster. Actually it's not too bad, after reading some of your accounts of garbage and old food mixed into their messes. I don't touch his areas. I try not to even notice it. He will clean it up when he thinks other people will see it and then gets frantic and typically hurts himself cleaning.

LOL I'm sorry I just... .I swear every time my husband goes to do something like that and gets all frantic, he always pulls something, stubs something, or pokes something and it's the biggest deal in the world and every time I'm just like     

[Cat Familiar]

LOL I'm sorry I just... .I swear every time my husband goes to do something like that and gets all frantic, he always pulls something, stubs something, or pokes something and it's the biggest deal in the world and every time I'm just like     

It is funny, now that I know I'm not going to get involved. In the past, My codependent self would have said, "Oh, you Poor Baby, I'll do the vacuuming for you so you don't hurt your back." Not anymore... .

And he talks about having a cleaning service come, but for anyone else to tackle his mess, he'd have to organize it first.

He gets jealous when he sees how organized my stuff is, but I chronically purge things I no longer need. He, on the other hand, continues to buy more stuff and then has the problem of figuring out where to put it. Even though we have a big house, he's rented a giant storage locker.

Not my monkeys. Not my circus.

[Anise]

My husband (uBPD) is the opposite.  Super neat freak OCD.  But I think this is because of his mom and her issues.  She keeps her home absolutely immaculate, I often felt uncomfortable in their house because of this, like I would mess things up by sitting down or something like that.

I'm the "messy" one, but I see the value in having an organized home that is clean and tidy.  My parents are both pack rats.

Probably my husband acted out in other ways re: authority, boundaries, etc.  If he left toys out his mom would throw them away.  Super cruel, dysfunctional family.  :'(

Edit to add: my husband will often hurt himself, or get hurt doing something, and completely blow it out of proportion. "Oh I broke my foot/toe/shoulder/back/etc." I quit responding to it. If he pushes how hurt he is I tell him to go see a doctor, who can actually do something about it.  He has an intense fear of doctors, so he usually declines.  Then I say "well it must not be so bad then", which usually gets me the cold shoulder the rest of the night, .

[ColdEthyl]

My husband (uBPD) is the opposite.  Super neat freak OCD.  But I think this is because of his mom and her issues.  She keeps her home absolutely immaculate, I often felt uncomfortable in their house because of this, like I would mess things up by sitting down or something like that.

I'm the "messy" one, but I see the value in having an organized home that is clean and tidy.  My parents are both pack rats.

Probably my husband acted out in other ways re: authority, boundaries, etc.  If he left toys out his mom would throw them away.  Super cruel, dysfunctional family.  :'(

Edit to add: my husband will often hurt himself, or get hurt doing something, and completely blow it out of proportion. "Oh I broke my foot/toe/shoulder/back/etc." I quit responding to it. If he pushes how hurt he is I tell him to go see a doctor, who can actually do something about it.  He has an intense fear of doctors, so he usually declines.  Then I say "well it must not be so bad then", which usually gets me the cold shoulder the rest of the night, .

My husband also has that fear of doctors. He was convinced he was going to die from colon cancer, took 6 months to get him in for the colonoscopy. Finally got it done... .perfectly fine.

Most of the time, any hurts or pains he will ignore rather than go to the hospital. When we do go, he's using hand sanitizer around every corner like he's trying to scrub the devil out of his hands. I've watched his mother to that, too.

[steev]

Yep, know this subject pretty well. 30 years validates me as a survivor!

When we were going out she portrayed herself as organized and tidy. Moved in together, then some flaws show up in this presentation, but hey, I was the "messy one". Incrementally I was to accept piles of paper work in different parts of the house that she "had to keep" and would sift through them to find, finally file or throw away items. But the piles persisted. I learned NEVER throw anything away (even week old newspapers) that was in said piles. So, I didn't. My ancient cleaning up is always brought to the surface in the years since. Losing or throwing away something is what I always do (this, a past trauma I inflicted on her 25 years ago). That projection keeps on coming, along with anger and victimization.

example:

Can't find a week old magazine called of all tings "The Week". I say I remember that she gave it to a neighbor. "I wouldn't, Do that, YOU must have thrown it away!" She attacks, I defend. The cycle gets going. You know the rest.

[SummerStorm]

My pwBPD (friend) never let me see her apartment.  However, her ex told me it was a "wreck" and said she was a "pig" while she was living with him from April to August.  Her mother recently described her new apartment as a "pigpen."

Her desk at work was always a complete mess.  She brought a backpack to work, and it was always stuffed with papers, makeup, etc.

I'd walk by her car on the way into work and would see stuff on the seats and the floor. 

She would come to my house and leave her shoes scattered on my floor, her dirty clothes on my floor, and all of her makeup and things on my dressers and bookshelves. 

A friend of hers came to visit once from Europe, and her method of cleaning up her room was to spray Axe to make it smell better.

But she described herself to me once as "totes domestic" and said how she loves to clean and do laundry.   

[Anise]

My husband also has that fear of doctors. He was convinced he was going to die from colon cancer, took 6 months to get him in for the colonoscopy. Finally got it done... .perfectly fine.

Most of the time, any hurts or pains he will ignore rather than go to the hospital. When we do go, he's using hand sanitizer around every corner like he's trying to scrub the devil out of his hands. I've watched his mother to that, too.

This is so hilarious to me!  I had the same trouble getting my husband to a sleep specialist.  He has very mild sleep apnea that he denies having and refuses to deal with.  It makes me sad to watch him sometimes.  It also makes me sad that his behavior has caused me to not take him seriously anymore when he hurts himself. I mean, what if he legitimately does break a leg or something? 

He doesn't have an obsession with hand sanitizer, but he is just a super neat freak.  He would freak out if I had moved a decorative bowl to a different room.  I gave up trying to have any say in what is clearly his space and moved out.  Of course I'm "abandoning" him. 

[howard]

and it is not only the messy disorganization, it is the CONSTANT situation of losing things.  Insisting someone stole it. He loses EVERYTHING and then goes ballistic.  He then gets angry at me when I try to help him retrace his steps because it goes against his narrative that someone stole it.

It gets really bad when he is in a mood and then drinks. It is sure to be a time something will be misplaced or completely lost. I am so sick of it and it makes me not want to buy him anything since he will most likely lose it. Yesterday he lost his Mp3 player. it has been then 3rd time since August.  this time it more than likely is lost permanently since he was waiting for his flight, got drunk, then they would not let him on the flight... .he must have gone nuts and they brought the cops. they took him to the hospital and he then just left.   He then had to get a hotel room which he went to the most expensive hotel and skyped me to figure out his problem. got him another flight. now he is sitting there in the airport waiting for the flight complaining that he doesnt have his mp3 player and he cant drink... .Well if you didnt get drunk to begin with you would have your mp3 player and you would be back from the trip and you would not have spent $300 for one night in a hotel and $500 for another flight.

I am so sick of this crap.

[Cat Familiar]

and it is not only the messy disorganization, it is the CONSTANT situation of losing things.  Insisting someone stole it. He loses EVERYTHING and then goes ballistic.  He then gets angry at me when I try to help him retrace his steps because it goes against his narrative that someone stole it.

It gets really bad when he is in a mood and then drinks. It is sure to be a time something will be misplaced or completely lost.

I hear you! The drinking really adds to the problem. My husband claims that things "disappear" as if they have a mind of their own. Usually he will find them (sometimes months later) under a pile of junk or in plain sight--often because he's put them there when he's been drinking.

I totally stay out of it. I used to try to help him locate stuff, but "not my monkeys, not my circus."

It's a drag when it causes financial loss.

[waverider]

Mindfulness goes out the window when under the influence of drink. Tunnel vision kicks it.

[Jessica84]

Mine has a messy home, but organized office - both extremely cluttered but one is chaotic, the other orderly. I don't live with my uBPDbf. His house is a wreck, mine is a museum of clean. I once made the mistake of straightening a pile of his books in one corner of his living room (OCD habit). The next day he called angry and frantic that I lost his keys. I swore to him I never saw his keys. He demanded a ride since he couldn't drive without his keys. I felt bad so I got over there, and he insisted I help him find the keys that "I" lost.

He finally finds them in a drawer, nowhere near the pile of books. Then he smiles and remembers why HE put them there. Of course, no apology. So now I don't touch anything in his house. He can have his chaos. I'll stick to my pristine clean home. 

[ColdEthyl]

and it is not only the messy disorganization, it is the CONSTANT situation of losing things.  Insisting someone stole it. He loses EVERYTHING and then goes ballistic.  He then gets angry at me when I try to help him retrace his steps because it goes against his narrative that someone stole it.

It gets really bad when he is in a mood and then drinks. It is sure to be a time something will be misplaced or completely lost. I am so sick of it and it makes me not want to buy him anything since he will most likely lose it. Yesterday he lost his Mp3 player. it has been then 3rd time since August.  this time it more than likely is lost permanently since he was waiting for his flight, got drunk, then they would not let him on the flight... .he must have gone nuts and they brought the cops. they took him to the hospital and he then just left.   He then had to get a hotel room which he went to the most expensive hotel and skyped me to figure out his problem. got him another flight. now he is sitting there in the airport waiting for the flight complaining that he doesnt have his mp3 player and he cant drink... .Well if you didnt get drunk to begin with you would have your mp3 player and you would be back from the trip and you would not have spent $300 for one night in a hotel and $500 for another flight.

I am so sick of this crap.

So sorry hun  Mine is a drinker too, though he has cut it down A LOT. He drinks once or twice a week now instead of 4-5.

Mine does that, too. My son couldn't find his shoes the other day, and his initial thought is someone MUST have thrown them away, and it was an intended vicious attack by someone for unknown reasons. (we did find them. in my son's closet. no vicious attack!)

Another thing besides losing stuff is how HARD on things he is. He throws fits and throws stuff that's one thing. But daily use of things he just wears them out. For an example, we will be replacing his laptop soon. He's had it a year but has dropped it on the floor I don't know how many times, broke once of the hinges, he has to fiddle with it to get it to charge, several buttons are missing (this is from throwing a fit and smashing buttons when it doesn't type fast enough/he's trying to correct a misspelling and he's trying to do it quickly so no one sees it and the world knows he made a mistake)

For something that he uses daily and pretty much lives around... .you would think he would take better care of it.