She approached me at the gym

[Welgrow]

Hey folks, I had refrained from any responses since December 12th... .She sent me emails, texts and called so many times and I didn't respond. I managed to block her number for a few days, but I convinced myself to unblock her over the last few days. I miss her desperately despite the insanity, infidelity, lies and pain that she has brought me. This was the enmeshment that I've seen described in numerous articles from various sources. She fits all nine criteria for BPD and personifies the Waif, and I eat it up. Today when she walked into the gym I was unable to act on my avoidance plan to slip out the door if I was to see her arrive. I saw her walk in and sat there. She walked in and out of the locker room, saw me and waved, and continued walking to the exit. Then she diverted and walked right up to me and asked me why I hadn't responded or answered her calls. I've read enough here to realize that there's nothing I can do or say to make a dent in her pathology. She's going to reenact her pattern regardless. I talked, I vented, I told her how I've been hurting and missing her. She and I both teared up in the middle of the gym and my natural inclination took over and I pulled her in and held her as she cried and my head swam. I reiterated my conviction about her BPD and my codependency. I vented about her abusive behavior and infidelity, and she went down the Waif's saga and told me that she has been abusing alcohol and drugs to cope. She told me that she's never fallen this hard and has never had this hard of a time recovering from a break up. I told her that one of the many guys that she's surely involved with could probably help her cope. Of course she responded by saying that "there's no one else, I only want you!" I reminded her that I can't believe anything she says and that I have a hard time believing anything between us was real. It's crazy that I miss her and care about her so much while at the same time knowing that everything she says could be a lie or distortion of some sort. She claimed to want to let me move on and be happy, while professing that she can't go on without me. I'm such a vulnerable mess, and I know she'll be calling tonight. I know everyone has their recycle story and I don't want anymore pain. It delusional to think that things would be different. May God guide me through this.

[Newton]

Hi welcham ... .I had a read through your previous posts and it appears you have put in some serious time in order to understand the dysfunctional dance you are both participating in right now.

I may have missed this info... .Are either of you attending a therapist/psychologist?... .is she 'aware' of her contribution to the repetitive drama?... .

[Welgrow]

Hi Newton,

I don't know how aware she is about her contribution. I have returned to see a counsellor who I previously worked with, and I also took her in for help after my first experience with her cutting/self harm behavior. I went to her first therapy appointment where this therapist claimed to be 'old school' and didn't accept the DSM 5's description of BPD. He said that he wouldn't work with Borderlines anyway. I am on my own journey of self discovery and healing and hope to forge a path to a healthier, complete version of myself who doesn't need to rescue anyone else. I need to do a lot of work and discover a genuine self worth and self esteem that can fuel me. I feel the need to recover in a manner that addresses my issues spiritually and psychologically. In the meantime I have received a number of texts and a missed phone call from my former girlfriend. I'm not sure how to proceed.

[Newton]

Ah ok... .thanks for the clarification 

Good news that you have support  ... .my journey was similar... .A therapist who saw us both then cut my ex loose when she realised the enormity of the mess she was dealing with! (I continued with the T and it helped me a great deal!)... .

My recovery is requiring a left brain/right brain... .intellectual/spirtual path approach.  In the middle of both... .I'm finding myself. 'Myself' is now telling me that people who exhibit these traits tend to really eff up my present and future... .the only reason my present is looking different than my past is because I'm listening to myself... .does that make sense?... .

My concern for you is the last sentence of your last post... .I would suggest it takes you acting upon known knowledge plus spiritual guidance to change... . 

[Welgrow]

Newton,

Would you be willing to elaborate on what you meant about the last sentence of my last post?

[Welgrow]

Whelp, I certainly payed the price last night for allowing contact yesterday at the gym. I agreed to talk to her on the phone last night, and I guess I needed to see the BPD runaround at least one more time. She called and initially wanted to pick up as if nothing bad happened. I don't know why but I felt the need to vent and lay into her for the hell she put me through. I, myself, am no saint, but I wanted so badly to get her to see the light. I talked to her about BPD. I told her about what I learned about how our relationship unfolded. She accepted what I was saying at some moments, and she cycled back and forth through her denial, distortion, lies, and also her deep shame and self hatred. Being the "rescuer" I felt the urge to help and sooth her, but ultimately I saw her displays as what they truly are. They are borderline personality traits that are deeply ingrained in her. She begged me not to abandon her. She called herself names. She cut herself and texted me a picture of it. She carved the word "ill" into her forearm. I hate to say it but I guess I needed another round of insanity to reassure myself that she is indeed suffering from this disorder. She tried to bargain with me over and over again, and I am ashamed to admit that she kept me on the phone until 1am (about 3 hours). By the end I was exhausted, and felt like I'd been turned in circles over and over. She did agree to go see a specialist to get a formal assessment and start DBT. I have no real hope that she will follow through. I just feel like I had a relapse from No Contact... .Right now I hope to carefully extract myself from interaction again.

[Newton]

Hey welcham... .apologies for my delay in replying.  I decided to take a little break for the hols... .

Sure I'm happy to elaborate  . It was a concern of mine that may well develop into a theological debate but I hope not, for now.  That isn't going to assist you in resolving the repetitiveness of your day to day chaos with this person.

I'm very glad you are seeking guidance, whether it's a book, a therapist, a god or reading here... .my concern is that your posts seem a little helpless... .by that I mean regardless of what guide you seek, ultimately YOU have personal responsibility to act on that external guidance... .or not, and at the moment it seems you are choosing a resounding 'not'.

"I agreed to talk to her on the phone"... .is accepting your choice in the matter... ."She kept me on the phone until 1am"... .isn't.  Do you see the difference?... .Perhaps something she isn't capable of right now and if you accept your assumed position as helpless participant, then neither are you.

I'm very alarmed that she was self harming during a conversation,(have I got that right?)... .txt you pictures... .and you chose not to reach out to emergency services who could help her at such a crisis point in her life. That isn't something you should be dealing with/not dealing with.  How are things between you right now?... .

[Welgrow]

Hey Newton,

Yes I agree completely with your assessment of my learned helplessness. My verbiage did sound like I was passing the blame. Just about everyone in my corner has urged me to NC. I obviously chose not to stick to it. I knew (I was/am convinced) that if I saw her that I didn't think I could stick to the plan. You may argue that it's a ploy on my part. Maybe you'd be right to say that. When she walked up to me I was right back in it. Like a drug that I'm hooked on. I'm still communicating with her.

The first time she "cut" herself in front of me I responded by taking her to her doctor the next day, and getting her started into "help". The system isn't very helpful. I work in the emergency field (hence the codependent rescuer type) and she is a nurse. It's very sticky and between her HIPAA rights and my mandatory reporting it has been difficult for me to figure out the right thing. She's careful to never come out and say she's going to commit suicide which would definitely force me to report it, but she guilts and eludes to it and yes she has sent me pictures of her "bleeding" herself. Once with an IV needle and this last time what appears to be a scalpel or knife that she cut a word on her arm.

I have made myself a willing participant. I'm still talking and texting with her. I will tell you that logically I don't want drama and that I want someone healthy, yet here I am still fighting an internal struggle to resume the detachment process. I'm so freaking angry with her for the cheating and the lies. I am stuck wishing that all this stuff hadn't occurred so we could go back to the loving phase of everything (stuck on the good times). I want her to be able to take it all back, and logically I know it's not possibly. I am not acting logically. I'm acting very emotionally. I want to be healing, but it seems like I'm just feeding the enmeshment.

Is this where you tell me to take control of myself and fix it. Because it seems like none of this would be necessary if I already knew how to use the power to make that happen. If I knew what I was doing then I probably wouldn't have ended up on this site in the first place.

[Newton]

welcham that was a very honest and introspective response... .

We sound like quite similar personality types... .hence my eagerness to engage with your situation.  I'd put in the effort with reading here and personal T... .obtained great knowledge, could I act on it?... .hell no.    It took me repeatedly exposing myself to nonsensical behaviour before either they found a replacement with stronger codependent traits and 'staying' power than me... .or often they simply ran away.

A great friend told me her therapist suggested buying her a t-shirt that simply said "I know"... .

We can possess intellect and esoteric knowledge, observe how dysfunction is affecting our emotions... .surely acting on this with repeated consistent behaviour is the only influence we have to effect change.

I won't tell you to do anything... .it wouldn't make a jot of difference if I did!... .From my experience your life will start looking different when you are absolutely sick of how it looks now... .

[Welgrow]

Newton,

How do I get across that threshold? It's like I'm stuck on denial, and I can't seem to break free. I'm stuck on an obsession that I want to make something work that is unworkable. This stuff takes me to a place where I feel like I have to control the situation and constantly check up on her so I don't get cheated on again. I haven't agreed to get back together with her, but knowing the intensity of this entanglement I am unable to say that I won't. I realize the gravity of her disorder, but to some extent I am turning a blind eye to its dangerous nature.

My daughter's mom was diagnosed with BPD prior to kidnapping my daughter while we were going through a hellish chain of events. I have no problem going NC with her because I already banged my head enough to know in my core that she's hopeless. With my newest ex, I somehow found another disordered person, and it was electric. It was one of my greatest fears to end up with another sick woman. I felt like I was doing everything I could to avoid a repetition. It included asking all my friends and loved ones to "check her out" and give me a thumbs up/down. This nurse was the high functioning, silent, waif type of Borderline. When it all came out I was baffled that I didn't see it. What's your story? It sounds like you had multiple encounters too... .Yet here you are, and it seems like you're further along into Codependency Recovery.

[Newton]

welcham you are correct, I've had multiple encounters with partners with various cocktails of disorder/dysfunction. Part of that back story is archived here in previous posts... (I've just returned to bpdfamily.com after a loong break).

I don't see my path and continuing recovery as having crossed a 'threshold' as such.  It has been a process that has taken years of persistence with various  moments, plateaus and temporary regression.  Many of us with left brain cerebral bias (plus codependent traits) have a desire to fix ourselves just as efficiently and quickly as we believed we could with our ex... .I don't see any stories here where that is the case so perhaps don't set your bar too high right now 

My T helped me to appreciate the programming I'd experienced from a dysfunctional FOO (does this apply to you?)... .hence why my partners abusive behaviour was uncomfortably comfortable to me, I had yet again found my subservient place in a controlling environment... .and I was reinforcing a taught narrative with my behaviour.

Another significant step was made with the realisation that my attempts to pursue a relationship with someone suffering with BPD was actually exacerbating their symptoms! (In addition to triggering their immediate engulfment/abandonment fears... .after multiple recycles we are often objectified as our partners original abuser, by this point we are placed in a box marked 'do not open' by them regardless of how available we make ourselves). How many 'success' stories do you see here... .out of so many members?

Board advisors who knew better via experience suggested I prioritse myself... .this was a totally alien concept to me.  It's very easy to use a dysfunctional relationship to procrastinate and avoid a fulfilling life if on a fundamental level we don't think or feel we deserve it.

'No contact' did help me temporarily when I was simply emotionally and physically broken from the push/pull cycles, (I recently compared it to 'cold turkey for addicts' and that metaphor works well for me.)  I have heard from some of those ex's since via txt, fb etc.  Now it seems I have a combination of morbid curiousity and vastly improved self esteem that allows me to engage with them for a few messages without fear or underlying desire/need.  That is all it takes for proof positive that regardless of their words... .their behaviour has not changed one bit.

2 brief points I think it's important to address in your post... .

1/ Why do you think you are 'stuck in denial'.  It sounds like you know exactly what you shouldn't be doing... .yet you are.  That doesn't appear like denial to me... .rather acting on habit/subconcious (conditioning?)... .

2/ Definitely give yourself a break for falling for another disordered person.  Cluster B personality type adults have often perfected mirroring and deceit.  My family actually congratulated me after initially meeting two of my ex's!... .

[focus]

I agree with Newton, I don't think you are in denial.

I think you are guilt driven, because the ex is a damsel in distress and your codependency (rescuer and fixer) makes you feel obligated to help.

If you don't, you feel guilt and perhaps even shame.

I am codependent, I have a Knight in Shining Armor complex, the rescuer, the fixer and the people pleaser.

Going no contact was hellish for me and is still hard, because of the guilt and perhaps shame I feel when the ex wife tries to call or text and I don't respond.

No Contact for me is No Contact, not "I will not contact". I read a lot about people "going NC" but always pick up the phone if the ex calls.

This is a tough ride. You seem very intelligent and aware and open minded.

I suggest you use your intelligence to focus on your self and your codependency (and dare I say "Complex PTSD"?).

[Welgrow]

Hey Newton,

You are right to assume that I have issues stemming from my FOO. I conveniently swept these under the rug for years thinking that I somehow dodged the bullet and don't still suffer any issues from my childhood. I recently started reading and working a book called "No more mister nice guy" which had me start looking at my FOO and childhood to notice the pattern that started back then. My dad was an abusive alcoholic who raged a lot, and when he got sober (I was 5ish) he soon took off and focused on himself for the rest of my childhood. My mom was thoroughly codependent, somewhat emotionally unavailable, overwhelmed, and shell-shocked when my dad split. It was a recipe for disaster. I had performance fatigue and started fighting, getting in trouble and eventually had my own brush with alcohol and drugs.

I'm now 16 years clean and sober, but I will liken my draw to this "love of my life" to the draw I felt for getting loaded. There is no doubt that I'm in withdrawals, and I recently learned that the parts of the brain that are triggered by a broken heart/being away from her are also the same ones triggered by physical pain. No wondet this is so hard. Cold turkey indeed. Over the last few days I've found myself choosing to verbally beat her up for her infidelity and her raging nonsense. I found myself acting like she had.

I have not found forgiveness and I wish I could have her as I my mate. I wish I could have the woman I thought she was. I obsess over her lies and want to find ways to protect myself from them, but I should be suffering my withdrawals so I can get to the other side. My denial is my hope/bargaining to try to make this anything other than what it is (one BPD partner and one Codependent partner destined to destroy one another unless we stay away).

 My friends and family all congratulated me too when they first met her.

[Welgrow]

Focus,

I recently learned this FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) acronym. I would agree that part of my continued attraction to her is all of the above. And like Newton was saying, I probably equate love with caring for someone couple with the spark that comes from uneasiness, lack of safety, and definitely an obligation to help. She has spent the last few days pointing out "how easy it was for you to just abandon me when I needed you. You said you loved me" ad infinitum... .I feel like ___ for so many reasons.

I certainly put a lot of effort into the relationship and into making her happy. I did it at my expense and embarassingly at the expense of my daughter who wanted to spend time with my former girlfriend. My uBPDx felt very threatened by my kiddo, and I responded by arranging for extra babysitting and daycare (I'm a full time single father, and I've got no family around). I should have told her to get lost after she failed to make an effort with my kid, but instead I just tried harder.

I feel like ___ for getting cheated on. She said some pretty messed up stuff to me along the way. She played on my insecurities regarding sex. I felt relatively confident in that department when I met her, but apparently I hadn't fully faced my sexual insecurities. She found that Achilles heel after constantly talking about her exes, frequently making comments that devalued me, but always baiting the hook afterward by telling me I'm the best she's ever had (I know it's a lie, and I don't think I'm a narcissist but was nice to hear).

I was diagnosed by my T as having PTSD... .That followed the hell with my daughter's mom and my daughter's subsequent kidnapping. I realize that I have so much work to do... .The work seemed to halt or at least slow to a crawl last week after she approached me at the gym. I know that No Contact is the goal. I agree that it has to mean that I don't unblock her number again just like I did today. It means that I can't lay myself open to her approaching me in the hopes that she will spark something back up and I can be the hapless and helpless passenger. This has to be my action to resume the healing process. It's soo freaking hard!

[Kelli Cornett]

Over the last few days I've found myself choosing to verbally beat her up for her infidelity and her raging nonsense. I found myself acting like she had.

You shouldn't treat anyone that way. No matter what they did. Very immature.

[Conundrum]

Over the last few days I've found myself choosing to verbally beat her up for her infidelity and her raging nonsense. I found myself acting like she had.

You shouldn't treat anyone that way. No matter what they did. Very immature.

Seriously, he's expressing himself in the most honest and rawest of ways--evidencing a struggle that almost everyone here can relate to on some level. And that's what you say to him--critical and judgmental--really?  Uggh!

[Kelli Cornett]

Over the last few days I've found myself choosing to verbally beat her up for her infidelity and her raging nonsense. I found myself acting like she had.

You shouldn't treat anyone that way. No matter what they did. Very immature.

Seriously, he's expressing himself in the most honest and rawest of ways--evidencing a struggle that almost everyone here can relate to on some level. And that's what you say to him--critical and judgmental--really?  Uggh!

Just because someone hurt you doesn't make it okay to verbal abuse them. How entitled. Should I set my ex's houses of fire cause of what he did to me? um no! go NC and explain to her why. I'm to angry to talk to you maybe when I cool off I can. Needs to be logical.

[Newton]

welcham congratulations on your sobriety... . .  I posted the following paragraphs on another thread on the 'detaching' board here today.  I hope you don't mind I've cut and paste them below... .I think it may be relevant to the current predicament you find yourself in... .


... .I think so much of our felt pain from these breakups is due to the amount of cognitive dissonance we experience.  We were sold an illusion of a person... .and for a variety of reasons we chose to buy into it.  Once their mask dropped, rather than accepting that this is a fundamentally broken individual/dysfunctional relationship we struggled with ourselves... .and them in a futile attempt to return to the 'dream reality' of how things could, should, would have looked if only x, y, z... .had occured or wasn't the case. This in itself is controlling behaviour... .an attempt to change another person and/or compromise our own desires, values and morals so they'll accept us whilst holding anger and resentment towards them for us having (choice) to do so... .

Our fundamental truth is that they are who they are, their behaviour shows us this. We have power over how we think/feel/act with this information... .it's the only thing we have power over... .and it's all the power we need to recover.

It appears that radical acceptance presents a dichotomy, in my experience it doesn't.  The less I try to do it, the more it manifests itself.  Doing the right thing  Observer consciousness is key to this... .I have a personal choice to perceive how people act towards me and to A/... swim around in a right brain butt-hurt quagmire acting out towards them, wishing future misfortune or consuming myself with negativity ... .B/... accept that their behaviour has very little to do with who I know myself to be... .and move on.

[Conundrum]

Over the last few days I've found myself choosing to verbally beat her up for her infidelity and her raging nonsense. I found myself acting like she had.

You shouldn't treat anyone that way. No matter what they did. Very immature.

Seriously, he's expressing himself in the most honest and rawest of ways--evidencing a struggle that almost everyone here can relate to on some level. And that's what you say to him--critical and judgmental--really?  Uggh!

Just because someone hurt you doesn't make it okay to verbal abuse them. How entitled. Should I set my ex's houses of fire cause of what he did to me? um no! go NC and explain to her why. I'm to angry to talk to you maybe when I cool off I can. Needs to be logical.

It's self-evident that he's describing his struggle to overcome negative actions or language--thereby rising above and bettering himself. Where did he or anyone else condone verbal abuse? For some reason you felt the need to reinforce in a derogatory manner what he already felt bad about. That's kicking someone when they're already down. This will be my last comment that derails the op's thread. If you have an issue with my response take it to a mod.

[Welgrow]

Newton,

those words describe how I feel. I have an Obsession with what I why sold, but what doesn't actually exist, and my control and resentment struggle that I'm choosing over detaching (letting go). Wow today I have heard this same lesson from so many sources.

Conundrum,

Thanks for accepting me and my expression along with my flaws. You are absolutely right. I am already ashamed of complaining and venting at her. I need to find better ways to allow myself to be angry and hurt without venting towards a woman who can't/won't be able to hear or consistently validate how violated I feel. I appreciate you saying something because there was a brief space where I thought 'maybe bpdfamily isn't the right place to be sharing these experiences if I'm going to receive judgements instead of support.' I'm not very good at being gentle on myself with my internal dialogue, and self care/self forgiveness are things that don't come naturally to me. So again, thank you.

[Newton]

How are things going in your world today welcham?... .

That negative inner narrative isn't you... ."you" can observe it... ."you" can choose to listen to it... .believe it, and act on it... .or not 

The very fact you can see it talking to you is logical proof that it is invasive... .it's a learned subconscious narrative.

Congratulations for not responding to the haters... .inside... .and outside 

[Welgrow]

Newton,

Today my world is calm on the outside. I spent time with my daughter, went to the gym, went to dinner with friends and my kiddo, and attended an recovery support group where I have a lot of good people. On the inside I have a vacancy. I still miss her (the constant drama, endless emotional black hole, nonstop feeling of uneasiness and lack of safety). At least I know that there are my feelings, and then there are the facts. We are back to 3 days of No Contact although I have not blocked her number yet. I guess I'm leaving the parascope up.

On another positive note, I am making an effort to believe the inner dialogue that says "be gentle" and hopefully I get to make leaps and bounds towards liking myself and building a genuine sense of self worth. So I planned a trip just for me. I bought the tickets, and I'm going snowboarding in Colorado in a few weeks. I'm starting to buy into this idea that self worth and self love being an antidote to codependency. Or at least a start. Do you have any thoughts on that?

[Newton]

welcham... .my thoughts are that right now you are doing everything you can to look after yourself... .as a priority  ... .surrounding yourself with people who love and respect you, physical exercise, making future plans... .I'm just so pleased for you!    

I appreciate that you feel something/someone is missing... and yet your dry humour (which I thoroughly appreciate and gave me a damn good giggle... thankyou)... .illustrates you are all too aware of how her presence would have probably impacted on your enjoyment of these things had she been involved with them.  

I also think that your obvious efforts and desire to research and address your 50% of the relationship... .as well as hers, is the same path as members who have emerged from these dark encounters as healthier people as a result of them.

From as much as I can garner from your typed words... .it would appear that your demeanour has changed significantly in a very short timeframe.  I would suggest that is a combination of removing yourself from FOG, altering your perception of your situation... .and acting opposite to how you feel (possibly reaching out to her in order to alleviate the sense of 'loss'... .I'd appreciate your thoughts on that    

[Welgrow]

Hey Newton,

Thanks for taking all this time to respond to my situation. For whatever reason you've chosen to take an interest in my journey... .For that I am extremely grateful, and when I have something more to offer I intend to do what you're doing here.

I guess my demeanor has changed. I still cried for a bit on my drive into work yesterday morning, and that's almost a daily occurrence. Even the crying has changed. I am not crying out of the gaping wound in my chest. Yesterday it was mourning and anger. I am hurt, but as you mentioned I have a drive to better myself. My perception currently has little room for the idea that she is going to change or that have any power to genuinely help her. I think I still have bouts with fear, obligation and guilt, but they are short lived and readily replaced with the truth. The facts... .Her actions... .My actions... .

The truth is that she cheated on me and devalued me. She used self harm to control me. She lied... .A lot. She was reckless (with drugs, drinking, sex, driving). She never embraced/accepted my daughter. She frequently said things that preyed on my insecurities. $1500 in cash went missing (who knows where). In truth, I chose to go down this path with her. I felt that she was a diamond in the (not so) rough, and I chose to be willing to suffer through each bit. Of course, she didn't lay it all on me at once. She was good at what she does... .She built my tolerance up slowly, and by the end it was truly amazing at what I had chose to suffer through. Infidelity has always been a deal breaker in my mind, and yet I was willing to stay even after discovering the first evidence of it.

I want to continue to focus on myself and become the man that I can be. It feels so weird to think that someday I will look at myself in the mirror and not try to measure up to anyone else. It's wild to think about taking care of my own needs and making myself a priority. I have put a lot of irons in the fire lately, and they all are directly related to bettering myself and healing me. How can I ever hope to find and connect with a mate who loves herself if I don't also love myself? How can I teach my daughter how to have genuine self worth, take care of herself and find a healthy relationship if I don't know how to do those things?