Can a BPD relationship survive, once someone has walked away?

[Rockcliffe]

I don't want this to be a novel, and scare people away from reading it. I just don't know where else to turn, and after reading a lot of posts on the board, I figured I would spill my guts, and hope someone out there has gone through what I'm going through and can give me some sound advice.

My husband and I were together 13 years. For the first 10 years, I knew there was something off with him, mentally. But I loved him, and figured that was just the man I married. So if there were occasional downs, admist our ups, he was worth it.

He came to me, out of nowhere, 3 years ago, and said he was done. He didn't love me, never has, and wanted out of the relationship (subsequently his ex girlfriend had just found him on FB and they were back in touch). We were living with my parents at the time, and had no job, so the only option we had was to continue to live together until he could afford to move out. I used that time to build back up what I thought was a god relationship, and before I knew it, we were moving out together, into a new apartment, with our two girls. Fresh start and all. It took a while, but things got back to normal. He would say "I love you" again... .something he stopped saying when things hit the fan. I was so happy. He was back to being him, and I loved my little life. Things weren't always "peachy", but I felt pretty normal for a couple who had been together that long.

Well... .in September (of this year), I noticed the signs of him pulling away again. Sitting in a dark room all day, not really looking at me when he talked. Always having an "Eeyore" tone in his voice. So I confronted him, asked him what was going on. He told me the same thing... .to a "T"... ."I don't love you, never have, I want out of this relationship, etc". Plans were in motion for me and my girls to move out, but the place I was going to wasn't ready for a month. This time though, I didn't beg, or chase. I cried... .a lot. But I didn't make him feel bad for his choices. Then out of the blue, he came to me one night (after about a month) and said "Who am I kidding, I love you, I always have, I don't want you to go"  So we started back over, and worked on things. He was feeling like... him... .again. But then last month, I noticed him being weird. Being secretive. Putting his phone down, mid text when I would walk in a room. Making lame excuses for why he had to go somewhere late at night.

I figured I would wait until after the holidays, for the kids mostly, before I confronted him about it. But one night, I stayed up late, couldn't sleep. He wasn't home. He walked in at 1 in the morning to get some PJ's, and leave again. As soon as I noticed the hickeys on his neck, I flipped out. Told him if he didn't want to be with me, then he can leave. He packed up some things and took off. By the end of the week he had all his things moved out.

We went a week at a time without talking. He would text our oldest daughter to let her know when he was coming over to see them. But then slowly, he started talking to me. Wanting to go have a smoke outside and talk when he came over. We never talk about anything important, just... .hanging out. Being married as long as we were, he was, and always will be... .my best friend. As I am his.

So we've been hanging out more and more. He came over to spend the night for the girls for Xmas ( since this would be the first year ever he wasn't here)

And that night, we had fun. (no sex) just plain, hanging out, talking like we used to. Then the other day he called me randomly, just to ask how I was, how the kids were, etc. No real reason to call. He could've sent a text. Then yesterday, he sends me a picture of a game we used to play together, we texted for a good portion of the evening, talking about the game. But talking, none the less.

He's still with the person he left me for. Says he's happy. But, my gut is telling me otherwise. Ugh. The texting, the hanging out, the talking about games and wanting to come over, is all part of how he acts before he comes back.

Now I know I should be jaded, and mad at the fact he left for someone else. I'm not. I'm hurt. I thought this man was the love of my life. He told me so, on several occasions. And yes... .even after all that... .I still love him. So much. And I might be a moron, but I would take him back in a heartbeat if he asked. The only problem is... .I've never kicked him out before. I sent him right into someone else's bed. And so now I don't know how this might play out. I realize I'm partially co-dependant. I'm trying to be ok, and get over him, but... .I can't find the switch to flip to turn him off. And yes, he is worth it to me. He's not abusive, he's a good man, I just feel like his brain isn't working properly right now, and he's believing a lot of things that aren't true. I would most deffinitely be willing to go through this, because I feel like we get just a little stronger everytime.

TLDR; MY husband of 13 years left me for someone else, says he wants a divorce. But in the past when he's left, he's always come back. And he's starting to act like he does when he's "coming out of a fog", being my friend and such. Has anyone ever had someone get this bad, leave, be with someone else, and then end up coming back? I know every situation is different, but I just want to know the hope is out there.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[EaglesJuju]

Hi Rockcliffe, 

Happy New Year and welcome aboard. You have come to the right place for understanding and support.

I can imagine how confusing, hurtful, and frustrating this has been for you.  Ambivalence is really hard to understand.   

People with BPD's (pwBPD) emotions are erratic and they have a difficult time regulating controlling them.  There is a tendency for pwBPD to base their decisions on their emotions or momentary feelings.  For example, when a pwBPD is feeling badly they associate or project negative emotions onto their partner.  The partner is viewed as frustrating, bad, withholding, etc. Due to a lack in object constancy, people are not perceived as having both faults and virtuous traits, it is one or another.  Emotions rule a pwBPD's life (feelings are always facts), hence the erratic behavior and mood swings. Has your husband been diagnosed with BPD or is seeing a therapist?

I understand why you would like to repair your relationship. I do not think there is anything wrong with that. Improving your relationship starts with you. We cannot change our loved ones behavior or thoughts, but we can change our own. Changing my own behavior was a win-win for my relationship. Things started improving, especially communication. I took some time to learn about BPD behaviors and how the behavior sometimes affected me. I found a lot of times my own behavior exacerbated things. You mentioned that you are partially codependent. You are in good company, I have some codependent traits myself.  What types of things would you like to work on?

I can relate to your situation, although my boyfriend did not leave to be with someone else.  He left my life in a dramatic fashion. Eventually he reentered my life and both of us had worked on quite a few things in therapy. I made the decision to try again.   

[Rockcliffe]

Eagle,

Thank you for responding!

I'm sitting here almost in tears, because you're the first person who has said it's ok to want to repair a relationship. I'm really glad I found this group.

He has never been to a therapist. The only reason I was able to finally put two and two together was because I was talking to a close friend ( who's also a licensed therapist) and after running down the basics of what I'm going through, she asked a series of questions about his traits, and things he says/does. And then told me to look up BPD. I sat in front of my computer, bawling, because for once, everything made sense. Well... .as much as it could I guess. Even things that he never understood about himself (and would frequently get depressed over) was right there, in the description of this disorder.

But the problem is he was raised in a household, where therapists were just "out to get your money" "diagnose you with false disorders to disperse pills" etc, so the sheer thought of him going to see someone, if off the table. I've kind of been fighting a one sided, blind battle here, taking some things I've learned and such to help get us back to a happy place.

It was working. After the last fallout in September, he was starting to be him again. Sending me random texts during the day, calling me at night before I went to bed just to hear my voice one more time ( he worked as a graveyard security guard) being his goofy self that I fell in love with.

But I think he started talking to this other person, right when he started to fall in a slump. And so it helped him justify leaving me. He was with someone else. He was happy. But I don't see how you can spend 13 years with someone, and claim you were acting the whole time. He only told me things that he knew would make me happy. He never meant any of it. But you can't fake that look, you get in your eyes. That kind of sparkle when you look at someone you love. Or at least... .like a lot.

I think this is his "Pulling". We have to have contact because of the kids, so I can't just kick him out of my life, and in a weird way, it helps when he's here. When we hang out.

But I know him. And he's starting to show his signs of missing me, even though when I ask him point blank, he tells me he doesn't miss me at all, he's happy, and doesn't want to get back together.

I just don't understand. And maybe I never will.

This is the worst pain I've ever endured. I feel like there is a giant hole in my heart. This was a man who I've spent almost half my life with. We were good together. He just up and left, packed his things, and almost seemed, happy about it.

I know I am co-dependant. I just don't know how to stop. I don't know how to flip a switch and stop loving him, stop missing him, stop hoping he's going to want to reconcile. I am proud of myself for making it this far. I'm paying rent/Bills/food without him. But I'm hurting. My kids are hurting. This whole thing is just nuts, and I keep hoping I'm going to wake up from this horrible nightmare.

[EaglesJuju]

I'm sitting here almost in tears, because you're the first person who has said it's ok to want to repair a relationship. I'm really glad I found this group.

It is okay, in fact we have an entire board dedicated to help repairing relationships. I am glad you found us too.   

He has never been to a therapist. The only reason I was able to finally put two and two together was because I was talking to a close friend ( who's also a licensed therapist) and after running down the basics of what I'm going through, she asked a series of questions about his traits, and things he says/does. And then told me to look up BPD. I sat in front of my computer, bawling, because for once, everything made sense. Well... .as much as it could I guess. Even things that he never understood about himself (and would frequently get depressed over) was right there, in the description of this disorder.

Understanding BPD traits help to piece together things that did not make sense. It helped me understand the contradictory behavior. Did you feel relieved knowing that there may be a reason why your husband was behaving this way?

But the problem is he was raised in a household, where therapists were just "out to get your money" "diagnose you with false disorders to disperse pills" etc, so the sheer thought of him going to see someone, if off the table. I've kind of been fighting a one sided, blind battle here, taking some things I've learned and such to help get us back to a happy place.

That is rough. I have some family members who think the same way. Have you ever thought about it from a different perspective, such as not fighting a one sided battle, but taking the steps for you to improve yourself and the relationship?

It was working. After the last fallout in September, he was starting to be him again. Sending me random texts during the day, calling me at night before I went to bed just to hear my voice one more time ( he worked as a graveyard security guard) being his goofy self that I fell in love with. But I think he started talking to this other person, right when he started to fall in a slump. And so it helped him justify leaving me. He was with someone else. He was happy.

As I mentioned before, emotions rule a pwBPD's life. That can very well be the case here, especially with the Jeckyll and Hyde behavior. Throughout your relationship, has he displayed the Jeckyll and Hyde behavior often?

But I don't see how you can spend 13 years with someone, and claim you were acting the whole time. He only told me things that he knew would make me happy. He never meant any of it. But you can't fake that look, you get in your eyes. That kind of sparkle when you look at someone you love. Or at least... .like a lot.

I think this is his "Pulling". We have to have contact because of the kids, so I can't just kick him out of my life, and in a weird way, it helps when he's here. When we hang out.

But I know him. And he's starting to show his signs of missing me, even though when I ask him point blank, he tells me he doesn't miss me at all, he's happy, and doesn't want to get back together.

I just don't understand. And maybe I never will.

It is hard to understand behavior that is so contradictory.  Many times when people say hurtful things is because it is an impulsive reaction or a defense mechanism.

I agree with you, rationally it does not make sense to spend 13 years with someone "acting" or pretending to be happy.   

This is the worst pain I've ever endured. I feel like there is a giant hole in my heart. This was a man who I've spent almost half my life with. We were good together. He just up and left, packed his things, and almost seemed, happy about it.

I am so sorry that you are going through this.     I understand what it's like to feel that there is a hole in your heart, especially with all your history. 

I know I am co-dependant. I just don't know how to stop. I don't know how to flip a switch and stop loving him, stop missing him, stop hoping he's going to want to reconcile. I am proud of myself for making it this far. I'm paying rent/Bills/food without him. But I'm hurting. My kids are hurting. This whole thing is just nuts, and I keep hoping I'm going to wake up from this horrible nightmare.

This link on codependency will give you a start to exploring the traits.

Are we co-dependent?

I do not necessarily think that we need to stop loving someone. I think we should love ourselves more.  Many times codependents are so busy helping and fixing, there is a tendency to forget about your own needs.  Do you forget about own needs often?

I think it is great that you are doing things on your own to support your family.  You should be proud of yourself for working through it this far.    It is okay to feel hurt and it is understandable to feel that way. What makes you feel hurt the most?

Looking forward to reading your response.

[Moselle]

Rockcliffe,

Thanks for sharing your story. Please don't feel self conscious about it. We all have experienced something or someone similar. We find a listening ear and an understanding audience on this website because we have first hand experience at it. So let me join Eaglesjuju and welcome you 

I too have co-dependent tendencies and there is alot we can do about it!

From your descriptions I can read that you are thinking quite clearly even with all of this happening to you. Hang in there.  It will get better.

Moselle.

[Rockcliffe]

Since I'm still learning this whole "Message Board" thing, I'm not sure how to do the quoting, but I'll answer your questions as best as I can... .

1. Did you feel relieved knowing there was a reason for why your husband acted the way he did?

Very much so. I had lived for years thinking he was incredibly bi-polor/depressed/OCD, etc. And when I found out about BPD I felt like I finally had some answers and information I could use to better the situation... .for both of us. Especially with the pushing/pulling. My initial instinct was to chase him, find out what I did wrong, how I could fix it... .but that always ended in a bigger blow up. I learned that it wasn't me, per say, and that he just needed space. I started recognizing the signs and just let him be. It wasn't always as quick of a fix as I would like, but in the end, it seemed to help.

Other "symptoms" he has are substance abuse, spending of money, driving fast (I read somewhere that is a sign of "self harm". He's always wanted to have an open relationship, and even though I would never want to seek relations elsewhere, I was ok with him doing it every now and then, because that's who he was when we got together, and I knew what I was getting into. But we always had an understanding that there was to be no relationships, outside of ours. That's what changed this time. It started off they were just talking, and then oops, he slipped and fell into another relationship ( he didn't mean for it to happen... .)

2. Did he always show signs of the Jekyll/Hyde aspect of the disorder?

Yeah. That's where I thought the bi-polor was coming in. But it was more intense than bi-polar. He's calmed down some over the years, but in the begining of the marriage it was little things like socks not being matched, or the toilet seat lid being left up (His OCD things) In the later years the Jekyll/Hyde thing wasn't really focused at me, but more so at work. One day he would be content and ok with things at work, and the next day he was misserable, angry, irritated at everything and everyone. I was always there to "talk him down" and listen.

3. What makes you feel hurt the most?

This is a hard one. It's everything. When we had our last "blow up" in September, it took about a month, but then he came to me and said "Who am I kidding, they'll be pulling us apart on our deathbeds, before we are away from each other" His mood was changing, and I really thought things were looking up. So while I'm blissfully happy, taking care of my family, and starting to get back into the groove of things... .he's plotting, and planning. Carrying on relationships with someone else, and waiting for the "right time" to leave. So I feel like a rug was being pulled out from under me. He insists I did nothing wrong, he just doesn't love me, like I love him. I deserve better. He isn't happy here, and is tired of lying to everyone... .it's not fair. (His words, not mine) I had a feeling it was coming, from the way he was acting, and so for days, I practiced saying "get out". Everytime before we've lived together through it, and it was hard. I wasn't going to let myself be put through that again. So if he wasn't happy here, and he didn't want to be with me, he can be the one to leave. And as much as I know that was the right thing to do, not only for me, but our kids... .I feel guilty. He has no job, no money, he's couch surfing ( mostly at her place) and as much as I'm mad at him... .I love him. I care about him. And thinking of him out there having to live like that, kills me. I know he did it to himself, but still... .I'm a wreck over it.

He's been coming over to see the kids, and at first, he would just see them, barely talk to me. No texts or any communication between us. But then, within the last two weeks, we've started connecting again. At least I feel like it. He's texting me randomly, when he comes over, he's spending a lot of time with me. And even though he says he's happy, and has no intention of coming back, I can't help but feel like that's just what he's telling himself right now.

I know I should try to move on, but like I've said, every other time, he's come back and wanted to make amends. I know time apart is good for us, because IF he decides to come back someday, at least he'll have grown up a little, having to be on his own for a bit. We've been together since we were 16, pregnant at 18, married at 20. So neither one of us know what it's like without the other one right there all the time. But the fact that he just jumped from one relationship to another hurts the most. While he's off playing house with his new girlfriend, I'm stuck here. In our home, our bed, with his memory everywhere.


I've been told that I should just give it up, but really... .I don't want to. I know what I'm getting myself into, and I really feel like there is hope for us. I am a firm believer in "everything happens for a reason". I'm hoping that me making him leave, and be on his own, is a dose of reality for him. Maybe it'll show him what he did have here, with me, and the kids. Help him realize that he does love me ( as much as a pwBPD can)

So ultimately I would love your input ( both of you) as to how I proceed from here. He's saying one thing ( I don't want to be with you) but acting completely differant (spending time with me, communicating, etc) I know if I keep pushing the idea of him coming home, he'll keep pulling away. So I'm just taking it one day at a time, hoping for the best. Being his friend, and trying to rekindle some of the good times we have had together, but not being "In his face"about it (i.e. remember the time... .or What was the name of the place we went to that one time) It always gets him laughing and talking about some memory we've had together.

I just hope, in saving my sanity, I didn't make a huge mistake, by telling him to leave. I bascially gave him a free pass to go live with this person, so they can spend all kinds of time together. Ya know? In the past, we've always stayed in the same house, so this is new territory for me. I am scared that I've lost him for good this time. And I know in time it'll get easier, I'll move on, yadda yadda, but as for right now... .I miss him. My kids miss him. We want him to come home. Weather or not that happens, only time will tell. But we've hit the one month mark since he left. And that was always when he started to come back around. And he's already showing signs of being his "old self" again.

[hope2727]

I don't know would be my answer to your question.I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to repair things.  I do know that only through self change can we hope to repair this type of relationship. I think the best bet is therapist for yourself who is VERY familiar with BPD. Then read everything you can. Start journalling and decide what you will and won't live with.

Keep us posted how it goes. 

[Rockcliffe]

I feel like I should also mention the first big blow up/break up we had, was right after New Years... .so I'm wondering if the holiday's are a trigger for him? Since the second one was in September... .Just before all the holiday's start... .

[EaglesJuju]

I feel like I should also mention the first big blow up/break up we had, was right after New Years... .so I'm wondering if the holiday's are a trigger for him? Since the second one was in September... .Just before all the holiday's start... .

Holidays seem to be a trigger for pwBPD. The holidays are stressful for most people, although for people who are emotionally sensitive and the inability to control or regulate emotions it can be 10,000 times more difficult. 

I had lived for years thinking he was incredibly bi-polor/depressed/OCD, etc. And when I found out about BPD I felt like I finally had some answers and information I could use to better the situation... .for both of us. Especially with the pushing/pulling. My initial instinct was to chase him, find out what I did wrong, how I could fix it... .but that always ended in a bigger blow up. I learned that it wasn't me, per say, and that he just needed space. I started recognizing the signs and just let him be. It wasn't always as quick of a fix as I would like, but in the end, it seemed to help.

The traits can be baffling at times, especially the push/pull. I completely understand your initial instinct. I did the same thing too and wanted to know what I did wrong and wanted to help. That made it worse for me as well. I think you have the right idea, space is one of the best things to give a pwBPD when they are feeling overwhelmed. You have a great head start, it took me quite some time to realize these things.     When you gave him space, what did he do afterwards?

Yeah. That's where I thought the bi-polor was coming in. But it was more intense than bi-polar. He's calmed down some over the years, but in the begining of the marriage it was little things like socks not being matched, or the toilet seat lid being left up (His OCD things) In the later years the Jekyll/Hyde thing wasn't really focused at me, but more so at work. One day he would be content and ok with things at work, and the next day he was misserable, angry, irritated at everything and everyone. I was always there to "talk him down" and listen.

Sometimes BPD can be comorbid with bipolar disorder. It can be really tough if the bipolar is rapid cycling. Do you still "talk him down" and listen when is he is in that type of mood?

He insists I did nothing wrong, he just doesn't love me, like I love him. I deserve better. He isn't happy here, and is tired of lying to everyone... .it's not fair. (His words, not mine) I had a feeling it was coming, from the way he was acting, and so for days, I practiced saying "get out". Everytime before we've lived together through it, and it was hard. I wasn't going to let myself be put through that again. So if he wasn't happy here, and he didn't want to be with me, he can be the one to leave. And as much as I know that was the right thing to do, not only for me, but our kids... .I feel guilty. He has no job, no money, he's couch surfing ( mostly at her place) and as much as I'm mad at him... .I love him. I care about him. And thinking of him out there having to live like that, kills me. I know he did it to himself, but still... .I'm a wreck over it.

I am sorry that you are going through this.     I can imagine how difficult it must be. 

PwBPD tend to self-loathe and have a lot of shame. It can a vicious cycle of self-loathing/shame/poor self-esteem then impulsive and self-destructive behavior (to regulate emotions), which starts the cycle over again. It is common for a pwBPD to tell their partner that they deserve better.   

Working through guilt is really tough.  It is hard to watch someone you love self-sabotage.  How are you children coping with everything?

[quote author=Rockcliffe link=topic=288310.msg12714975#msg12714975 date=1451687342

I've been told that I should just give it up, but really... .I don't want to. I know what I'm getting myself into, and I really feel like there is hope for us. I am a firm believer in "everything happens for a reason". I'm hoping that me making him leave, and be on his own, is a dose of reality for him. Maybe it'll show him what he did have here, with me, and the kids. Help him realize that he does love me ( as much as a pwBPD can) [/quote]
I am a believer of "everything happens for a reason too."   

So ultimately I would love your input ( both of you) as to how I proceed from here. He's saying one thing ( I don't want to be with you) but acting completely differant (spending time with me, communicating, etc) I know if I keep pushing the idea of him coming home, he'll keep pulling away. So I'm just taking it one day at a time, hoping for the best. Being his friend, and trying to rekindle some of the good times we have had together, but not being "In his face"about it (i.e. remember the time... .or What was the name of the place we went to that one time) It always gets him laughing and talking about some memory we've had together.

From my experience, pushing things tend to not work. I tried that and it made my boyfriend withdrawal and pull away more. I found that working on myself during confusing times was one of the best things I could do. Working on myself made me feel better and happier. Generally, being happy affects other people. As much as we don't want to be around constant negativity because it can affect us, positivity can affect others.  Also, I spent a lot of time learning about BPD behaviors and communication techniques. We had a couple of months of not speaking and eventually reached out to me.  Is this similar to what you were thinking?

[Herodias]

Yes, unfortunately when mine found someone else that he knew he could manipulate he stayed with her. we were together 9 years and were on and off... .married 7 and a half years and now will file for divorce on the 18th. he got the gf pregnant, so that is the end all for me. I asked him to get a vasectomy but he would not. He said he would come back to me at the end of the year and revisit it all, but too much had happened and he didn't want to work on it at that time. Now he is stuck with her. I don't think he is happy. Even told me I could take him back now! I think she thinks they are getting married as soon as we divorce. Even plans for him to move out of state to her home town with her! It's so crazy! No feelings for me or her husband when she did all of this either! I think she is either really immature or could have a PD as well. Anyway, if they are seeing someone else, I think they are more apt to go with that for awhile and not want to work on themselves... .seriously, what would be more fun for the moment? Not a therapist! My nephew calls his therapist " TheRapist"... .they don't like seeing them. My husband and my nephew are similar. kinda weird considering one is 17 and one is 34! Sorry you are going through this... .The red flags are in the beginning and we choose to love them anyway. I hope you can get things worked out. Yes, holidays are a huge trigger!