On Humiliation and getting back at them II

[NCEA]

Last one reached some kind of limit so we can continue here.

Thanks for all the comments people are sending me privately, I appreciate it. Woke up at 6 to work on my community project, even that I'd much rather stay in bed. I need to finish it within 2-3 days because my new study program is starting in less than a week.

I contacted private detectives to look for help with what I wanted to do, but it seems it's illegal in that country and they wouldn't help. So now I feel worse. I might go back to my original plan - become friends again with low contact, wait for a meet up for coffee to catch up and then never show up. Or drive us "somewhere nice", stop in the middle of nowhere and tell her to get the ___ out of the car.

[MakingMyWay]

Hey NCEA. I've read through the previous thread. I'd like to know what you think you'll gain by taking revenge?

I'll be honest in saying that I tried to take revenge on my ex by emailing her dad, trying to humiliate her. It got me absolutely nowhere, all it did was reaffirm her narrative that I was a horrible person who hurt her greatly. That narrative wasn't true at all when she left and replaced me, but after I took that "revenge" that narrative was absolutely true.

You are making a lot of mistakes and assumptions about the person with BPD. You are making the very dangerous mistake of assuming that she will react to being humiliated in the same way you did. This is not an even playing field. Being this reactionary will do nothing for you, it will only make her behaviours worse.

I know it is hard to overcome these feelings of anger, but you said you have been feeling bad for 3 months. That is nothing in terms of recovering from a traumatic breakup. If you have been struggling with this for this long, it might be time to consider therapy if you haven't already in order to overcome the damage that has been done by this relationship.

[enlighten me]

Hi NCEA

I agree with makingmyway. You are dealing with someone who probably doesn't think they have done anything wrong. Imagine if you where dumped in the middle of nowhere and in your mind hadn't done anything to deserve it. What would your thoughts be and how would you react? You would probably think your ex was a psycho and you would tell everyone about what the crazy ex did to you.

Yes you are hurting and wanting justice. Ive been there. You are dealing with a child in adult form. If you look at everything she did as if she was a child in the school playground (school yard for the Americans here) then you will see how similar it is. Does a child think they have done anything wrong? Does a child weigh up the consequences of their actions? Even when caught red handed a child will think punishment is unjust. What a child doesn't like is being ignored, is seeing people doing better than them and having more fun than them. A child wants to be special and the centre of attention. By taking that away and thriving you will hurt them ten times more than any revenge you can take.

[mrwigand]

Hey NCEA. I've read through the previous thread. I'd like to know what you think you'll gain by taking revenge?

I'll be honest in saying that I tried to take revenge on my ex by emailing her dad, trying to humiliate her. It got me absolutely nowhere, all it did was reaffirm her narrative that I was a horrible person who hurt her greatly. That narrative wasn't true at all when she left and replaced me, but after I took that "revenge" that narrative was absolutely true.

You are making a lot of mistakes and assumptions about the person with BPD. You are making the very dangerous mistake of assuming that she will react to being humiliated in the same way you did. This is not an even playing field. Being this reactionary will do nothing for you, it will only make her behaviours worse.

I know it is hard to overcome these feelings of anger, but you said you have been feeling bad for 3 months. That is nothing in terms of recovering from a traumatic breakup. If you have been struggling with this for this long, it might be time to consider therapy if you haven't already in order to overcome the damage that has been done by this relationship.

Yes, please get some therapy, try to heal and abandon this revenge plot. You're not thinking clearly. If you were seriously looking into something that private detectives had to inform you was illegal, then you need to rethink your state of mind. You're hurting, sir, and it's potentially driving you to do something unnecessarily hurtful and damaging.

[NCEA]

Hey NCEA. I've read through the previous thread. I'd like to know what you think you'll gain by taking revenge?

I'll be honest in saying that I tried to take revenge on my ex by emailing her dad, trying to humiliate her. It got me absolutely nowhere, all it did was reaffirm her narrative that I was a horrible person who hurt her greatly. That narrative wasn't true at all when she left and replaced me, but after I took that "revenge" that narrative was absolutely true.

You are making a lot of mistakes and assumptions about the person with BPD. You are making the very dangerous mistake of assuming that she will react to being humiliated in the same way you did. This is not an even playing field. Being this reactionary will do nothing for you, it will only make her behaviours worse.

I know it is hard to overcome these feelings of anger, but you said you have been feeling bad for 3 months. That is nothing in terms of recovering from a traumatic breakup. If you have been struggling with this for this long, it might be time to consider therapy if you haven't already in order to overcome the damage that has been done by this relationship.

Yes, please get some therapy, try to heal and abandon this revenge plot. You're not thinking clearly. If you were seriously looking into something that private detectives had to inform you was illegal, then you need to rethink your state of mind. You're hurting, sir, and it's potentially driving you to do something unnecessarily hurtful and damaging.

It's illegal only because they have med laws over there. You can't even follow around someone unless you are a husband. If you're a boyfriend, they can give you a report but no photos. Nothing else is allowed. So it doesn't mean anything about my state of mind. 

[enlighten me]

But the obsessive behaviour does NCEA. I don't mean that in a bad way. Im not saying theres anything wrong with you but you like most here are dealing with something that the majority of people will never understand.

Im certain I had PTSD by the end of my relationship. I was obsessive, I wanted revenge, I was addicted to her still. It hurt that someone else could have what I wanted. It hurt to feel discarded and worthless.

Understanding what drives us can help. I realised that I was just as angry at myself for being taken in and allowing my ex to do what she did than I was at her for what she did.

Ive seen my ex wife want me back as she was jealous of what I had and what she was missing out on. It felt good. It felt like I was twisting the knife without even having to do anything. I saw the look in my exgfs eyes the other day when we talked and when I mentioned I wanted to be mortgage free in a couple of years. They went sad and I realised that she knew I could do it but she never would. Even though I don't do these things intentionally I can see how they upset my exs. I realise every holiday photo of me off having fun put on fb must have hurt them. Every small interaction with friends must wind them up. Their minds race when they don't know what weve been doing and they come to the conclusion that we are now happy and thriving while they remain where they always have and always will be.

[NCEA]

Ive seen my ex wife want me back as she was jealous of what I had and what she was missing out on. It felt good. It felt like I was twisting the knife without even having to do anything. I saw the look in my exgfs eyes the other day when we talked and when I mentioned I wanted to be mortgage free in a couple of years. They went sad and I realised that she knew I could do it but she never would. Even though I don't do these things intentionally I can see how they upset my exs. I realise every holiday photo of me off having fun put on fb must have hurt them. Every small interaction with friends must wind them up. Their minds race when they don't know what weve been doing and they come to the conclusion that we are now happy and thriving while they remain where they always have and always will be.

This project I'm working on now, it's a project I came up with with her (but my idea), we started working on it together but just throwing ideas around. It should be online within days, I'm sure she wouldn't believe I've actually gone thru with it. I wish her nothing but pain and suffering and if it's mind hands it's better.

[Skip]

It is a natural reaction to want to hurt the person who hurts you.

This tendency comes from the reptilian brain -  the primitive, instinctive brain function that is shared by all reptiles and mammals, which is wired to fight or flight.



Will revenge give your relief from your upset and make you feel better and help you get over the relationship?

In the extreme, we read everyday of the guy that killed his girlfriend for hurting him. This is a particularly graphic one nydailynews.com/. She wasn't even awake.

But most of the time its something less intense. Smear campaigns are a favorite - especially remote campaigns on the internet. Here is "hold nothing back example: mentalillness-bigfish.com/index.php/whore-diseases

Dimitri Doukopoulos has 6,700 internet citations.  I'm sure a lot of girls want to date this guy.

Are these guys poster boys for emotional maturity?

We all have these thoughts. The deeper the wound, the more likely we will have these thoughts. The depth of the wound has to do with what happened and/or our propensity for narcissistic wounding.

But very few act.

Talking about it on a message-board provides some relief. In this sense, the more members say "don't do it", the more relief.

Just some thoughts... .

[UVA2002]

Living well is the best revenge. Trust me they will fall on their own. I'm 40 and have yet to see unfortunately one of these girls do anything but get in bad situations. Karma or God or life or nothing whatever u believe in will get them .BPD or any event they have had to deal with is no excuse to treat people like ___. NC!

[Invictus01]

Dude, just a personal story for you. A little bit over a year ago, I was ghosted by somebody who I thought was my "soulmate". It felt like the love of my life, the person I exchanged 100 texts/day for 6 months straight, died in a car wreck. The first 2-3 months out, I am fairly certain if I submitted myself for evaluation, I'd probably be deemed to be certifiably insane. My mind was flickering between a suicide on one end of the spectrum and ordering a hit on her on the other end of the spectrum (I was seriously wondering how much it would take to order a hit). This is coming from a guy who would rather catch a fly and open a window for it than to kill it.

Here are I am 13 months later and I can honestly tell you, this $hyt just isn't worth it. Walking away, getting your head together and leaving the person who doesn't want to be in your life out of it definitely is worth it 100%. If she is indeed PD'd, she doesn't see things the way you see it. What you think of as a "revenge", who knows how she will interpret. In the end, it all doesn't matter. Can't move forward if you keep on wasting brain power on the past.

[Fox Mulder]

Dude, just a personal story for you. A little bit over a year ago, I was ghosted by somebody who I thought was my "soulmate". It felt like the love of my life, the person I exchanged 100 texts/day for 6 months straight, died in a car wreck. The first 2-3 months out, I am fairly certain if I submitted myself for evaluation, I'd probably be deemed to be certifiably insane. My mind was flickering between a suicide on one end of the spectrum and ordering a hit on her on the other end of the spectrum (I was seriously wondering how much it would take to order a hit). This is coming from a guy who would rather catch a fly and open a window for it than to kill it.

Here are I am 13 months later and I can honestly tell you, this $hyt just isn't worth it. Walking away, getting your head together and leaving the person who doesn't want to be in your life out of it definitely is worth it 100%. If she is indeed PD'd, she doesn't see things the way you see it. What you think of as a "revenge", who knows how she will interpret. In the end, it all doesn't matter. Can't move forward if you keep on wasting brain power on the past.

Great post. It's difficult, though, when the person you're trying to forget seemed so unique and special and one-of-a-kind. It's hard not to feel like you'll never experience that kind of love again.

Revenge is definitely not conducive to healing, though. Some anger is fine but when you're trying to strike out at your ex, well - BPDs have ways of foiling those plans and making you wish you had kept to yourself.

[UVA2002]

^^^exactly, revenge to the BPD is what they want. Action and reaction for their own entertainment is the BPD girls code they live by. You really want to mess with them... IGNORE.

[Itstopsnow]

Believe me I wanted him to get what he deserved . But honestly the holding onto a grudge or revenge will only change you into a spiteful, bitter, vindictive person. Many people get used and abused in this life. It's a terrible thing! Especially when all you did was love and care for this person. But they are not normal. They have a mental disorder. She didn't set out to hurt you. In their mind they playcate themselves into thinking this time it will work and be different and when it doesn't they blame the other party. If you do something to her like leave her somewhere or pretend to care and then leave her. It will likely hurt you as well as her and it will keep your attachment to her going . It is not a healthy route to go for either of you. I feel consumed by thoughts of him still and that pisses me off. But once you make a decision to let go . Time is the only thing that will give you the proper healing and prospective. They don't get off Scott free! Their lives are always in turmoil . Even during the idealize phase. We may think it's so great but they are experiencing different feelings. Fear, is a big one of them. And anxieties as well.  So even when they are idealizing you they may have fears come up that they won't share . And starts the Devalue in their mind. They think and move at a different process than us! They always look for the negative and they are super sensitive and thin skinned so everything can hurt them. They have a lifetime of regrets and losses. Don't think she screwed you over and you're the only one to suffer. She's done that to many guys before you and after you she will continue and she won't be happy herself. Planning a revenge will take up your time and emotional and spiritual energies . And when you finish I bet you that you won't feel as satisfied as you hoped. And all that time and energy you put into planning and plotting it now you have to start from scratch to let go again. It becomes a vicious cycle . Take the high road. They'll never learn their lesson and always blame you . 

[JaneStorm]

It is a natural reaction to want to hurt the person who hurts you.

This tendency comes from the reptilian brain -  the primitive, instinctive brain function that is shared by all reptiles and mammals, which is wired to fight or flight.



Will revenge give your relief from your upset and make you feel better and help you get over the relationship?

In the extreme, we read everyday of the guy that killed his girlfriend for hurting him. This is a particularly graphic one nydailynews.com/. She wasn't even awake.

But most of the time its something less intense. Smear campaigns are a favorite - especially remote campaigns on the internet. Here is "hold nothing back example: mentalillness-bigfish.com/index.php/whore-diseases

Dimitri Doukopoulos has 6,700 internet citations.  I'm sure a lot of girls want to date this guy.

Are these guys poster boys for emotional maturity?

We all have these thoughts. The deeper the wound, the more likely we will have these thoughts. The depth of the wound has to do with what happened and/or our propensity for narcissistic wounding.

But very few act.

Talking about it on a message-board provides some relief. In this sense, the more members say "don't do it", the more relief.

Just some thoughts... .

Exactly. It is a passing feeling for me. I remember that I love(ed) him very much. I would never want to hurt him. I hate that I had to end it. He said at Christmas that after his kids leave, his life would be so hollow without me. I know that is true; however, mine is chaos with him  :'(

[NCEA]

^^^exactly, revenge to the BPD is what they want. Action and reaction for their own entertainment is the BPD girls code they live by. You really want to mess with them... IGNORE.

Guys... .if you make someone lose their job, which is what I'd like to do, there is NO WAY to not get hurt by it or twist it against you or whatever. Her work enables her to travel where she meet up with all her lovers, it would devastate her totally. I'm working 18 hours a day on my social project, I'll get back to all the detailed replies soon. Thanks!

[Red Devil]

Good luck NCEA I hope you get your revenge. Were on the same page over this. if someone betrays someone or hurts them, of course they deserve payback

[thisworld]

In cases where infidelity and its hurt is at stake, a revenge plot designed to deprive the cheater of something that was critical in your relationship (basically your rivals or the means to them) is begging. It's an aggressive, elaborate and disguised way of crying and saying "I'm so sad and helpless, please feel something." But because the ego cannot accept this and the person cannot bring themselves to saying this (due to social and psychological reasons), they come up with a more acceptable (to the ego) way of dealing with this. In most cases, there is a fantasy that the deprived cheater will come back crawling to them and they will be the ones doing the rejection - like we saw in the other revenge example example. Even if she never knows who did this to her, you will have begged to her. If that gives you satisfaction, if you feel that it restores your pride, do that really. It will not change the world in any particular way anyone notices. There will be one mentally ill person deprived of men and one man who begged. The world can live with it. It's one of those supposedly self-serving things that doesn't even serve the doer ultimately - and paradoxically.  

Trying to disguise this under justice doesn't work really, again the world has other definitions of justice.

You don't want other people to be hurt by this person? Expose her legally and openly, without hiding behind secrecy. Justice doesn't hide. If you are really doing this for the sake of other people, you've got to give them the right to be the judge here. So, present your case openly in front of a crowd, tell how your relationship started, what went on, what you think your mistakes were and how this person is ultimately "evil" in your eyes. Let people decide. They will protect themselves if they want to. Anything less than giving reality to people under the disguise of justice is, again, begging.

You don't want to deal with the consequences of dealing with a mentally ill person this way? Start looking at the causes, effects, workings of Cluster B relationships (which are more symptomatic than personal really) and educate people on these. This truly saves lives.  

You don't choose to put effort into that? You can donate some money to organizations that are doing this.

You believe in personal payback by trying to make someone lose their job (so that they can't find men and feel devastated!), what does that say about the man doing this? I don't know if men here attribute "power" to this behaviour, I as a woman don't see anything powerful in it.

[NCEA]

In cases where infidelity and its hurt is at stake, a revenge plot designed to deprive the cheater of something that was critical in your relationship (basically your rivals or the means to them) is begging. It's an aggressive, elaborate and disguised way of crying and saying "I'm so sad and helpless, please feel something." But because the ego cannot accept this and the person cannot bring themselves to saying this (due to social and psychological reasons), they come up with a more acceptable (to the ego) way of dealing with this. In most cases, there is a fantasy that the deprived cheater will come back crawling to them and they will be the ones doing the rejection - like we saw in the other revenge example example. Even if she never knows who did this to her, you will have begged to her. If that gives you satisfaction, if you feel that it restores your pride, do that really. It will not change the world in any particular way anyone notices. There will be one mentally ill person deprived of men and one man who begged. The world can live with it. It's one of those supposedly self-serving things that doesn't even serve the doer ultimately - and paradoxically.  

Trying to disguise this under justice doesn't work really, again the world has other definitions of justice.

You don't want other people to be hurt by this person? Expose her legally and openly, without hiding behind secrecy. Justice doesn't hide. If you are really doing this for the sake of other people, you've got to give them the right to be the judge here. So, present your case openly in front of a crowd, tell how your relationship started, what went on, what you think your mistakes were and how this person is ultimately "evil" in your eyes. Let people decide. They will protect themselves if they want to. Anything less than giving reality to people under the disguise of justice is, again, begging.

You don't want to deal with the consequences of dealing with a mentally ill person this way? Start looking at the causes, effects, workings of Cluster B relationships (which are more symptomatic than personal really) and educate people on these. This truly saves lives.  

You don't choose to put effort into that? You can donate some money to organizations that are doing this.

You believe in personal payback by trying to make someone lose their job (so that they can't find men and feel devastated!), what does that say about the man doing this? I don't know if men here attribute "power" to this behaviour, I as a woman don't see anything powerful in it.

It would cut her supply and humiliate her. I'm well off. I wouldn't put any energy into it. In a perfect world I'd pay someone $10k, send them away, and would only want an email saying "it's done". I'm not into drama or keeping contact, if I could have it my way it would be surgical swift accurate and clean. It's simply about getting even and I have no doubt that emotionally I'd cut my healing time by half.

[Schermarhorn]

Last one reached some kind of limit so we can continue here.

Thanks for all the comments people are sending me privately, I appreciate it. Woke up at 6 to work on my community project, even that I'd much rather stay in bed. I need to finish it within 2-3 days because my new study program is starting in less than a week.

I contacted private detectives to look for help with what I wanted to do, but it seems it's illegal in that country and they wouldn't help. So now I feel worse. I might go back to my original plan - become friends again with low contact, wait for a meet up for coffee to catch up and then never show up. Or drive us "somewhere nice", stop in the middle of nowhere and tell her to get the out of the car.

Regardless of her actions, your actions are yours.

Its not revenge. The relationship is over, heal from your wounds.

All it would do is continue your involvement.

[Skip]

NCEA, what help would you like in this thread?  What advice are you seeking?

[Fr4nz]

NCEA, what help would you like in this thread?  What advice are you seeking?

Well, it seems he wants that we basically validate his intentions, even if we explained him carefully - multiple times - that revenge is pointless in the long term... .

[Newton]

Perhaps some members could take something valuable from this thread... .what does it say about us when we continually persist in explaining a moral concept... .to someone who is refusing to hear us (doesn't 'get it' ?... .Haven't some of us participated in a similar dynamic before?... .

[Skip]

We're all in this together... .

NCEA is obviously hurting bad... .he lost someone he loved.

NCEA, what help would you like in this thread?  What advice are you seeking?

[NCEA]

I think I'm trying to offer a different view.

That our hurt is irrational and deeply emotional due to the humiliation factor. And that letting "time" heal us is basically saying that we're waiting till we FORGET. Forget their face, their smile, their sex.

I'm suggesting something that sounds childish, yes, but also different, saying that the feeling of hurt should be dealt with "head on" by retaliating and restoring personal power via ACTION against our aggresor.

Not popular? Maybe.

Sounds crazy? Sure.

Might cut a year or two of suffering by half? Probably.

Can you honestly say that making them suffer just a fraction of how much you did wouldn't make you feel better? Give me a break. I'd literally give away a month worth of my income for that. I wouldn't even think about it twice. Just send me a PayPal account and it's done in 20 seconds.

[Fr4nz]

I think I'm trying to offer a different view.

That our hurt is irrational and deeply emotional due to the humiliation factor. And that letting "time" heal us is basically saying that we're waiting till we FORGET. Forget their face, their smile, their sex.

I'm suggesting something that sounds childish, yes, but also different, saying that the feeling of hurt should be dealt with "head on" by retaliating and restoring personal power via ACTION against our aggresor.

Not popular? Maybe.

Sounds crazy? Sure.

Might cut a year or two of suffering by half? Probably.

Can you honestly say that making them suffer just a fraction of how much you did wouldn't make you feel better? Give me a break. I'd literally give away a month worth of my income for that. I wouldn't even think about it twice. Just send me a PayPal account and it's done in 20 seconds.

So this is your goal: "(retaliating) Might cut a year or two of suffering by half? Probably."

Skip, what is your opinion about this?

[Newton]

NCEA ... .as others have suggested... .this is an ego reaction on your part.

If I reacted with my training and physical presence/cunning to every slight I 'felt'... .my life would be a chaotic mess and I would have been incarcerated multiple times by now.

My peace comes from acceptance of another persons behaviour towards me that says absolutely zero about who I know myself to actually be... .and speaks volumes about who they are.

[Newton]

ps... .my understanding is that codependents have a tendency to attempt to mitigate conflict and chaos with support, empathy and insight... .I think thats why your anger and desire for revenge have recieved so much attention on this thread(s).

[JaneStorm]

I understand all of this on a primal level. I make the choice to put that rage and energy into myself; making myself better so I will attract a better quality lover next time around. Hang in there. 

[SummerStorm]

Please tell me I'm not the only one who is sitting here wondering why we are still talking about this.

I've read through all of this, and here are my thoughts, based on previous comments.  

NCEA - You mentioned once that you "know" your ex would never commit suicide.  I'm sorry, but this isn't something you can ever know.  I am a high school teacher, and my ninth grade students (ages 14-15) just observed the one year anniversary of a former classmate's suicide.  This young man was in 8th grade and had lots of friends.  No one knew how much he was hurting inside, until it was too late.  My dad's cousin committed suicide.  The night before, he ate dinner with his family, just like he did every Sunday.  He didn't seem distant or anything.  He laughed, talked.  And then, he left, drove out into a field, and killed himself.  A woman my mom went to nursing school with committed suicide.  The night before, my mom went out for dinner and drinks with her and a few other classmates.  All you have to do is search the internet to find stories of people who took their own life after showing absolutely no warning signs.  My BPD friend tried to commit suicide in June.  The day before, we laughed and joked and made plans for me to help her with an activity she was doing in one of her classes the next day.  The next morning, I didn't get any texts from her like I usually did, but she had been devaluing me for weeks, so I didn't think much of it.  Then, I showed up to work and didn't see her car in the parking lot.  I went to her classroom and didn't see her.  I texted.  I called.  I left messages.  I texted more.  I called again.  And then I finally received a reply:  "I'm so sorry SummerStorm.  I love you."  She sent me that right before the ambulance came to take her to the hospital.  

I will echo something that EaglesJuju said in Part I, which is that your ex, if she truly does have BPD, hates herself more than anyone else.  When people ask me why I still talk to my BPD friend, I always say, "Because, at the end of the day, she hates herself more than she could ever hate--or claim to hate--me."  

Believe me, I have been through hell and back the past 7 months.  I spent a majority of the summer in bed.  I've walked around my house and looked for places from which I could hang a noose.  I've been angry.  I've been sad.  I've been everything in between.  

Do I hope that things don't work out for her and karma bites her in the rear?  Of course.  And I'm saying that as someone who is still in contact with her and recently considered going to see a movie with her.  And really, I know that things won't work out for her.  Since August, she's been with at least four different guys.  She graduated from college with a teaching degree but is currently working the night shift at a gas station.  She can barely pay her bills.  She lives in a crappy apartment.  Her mom recently told her that she refuses to give her any more money.  And I didn't have to do anything to make any of this happen.  She did it to herself.  

There are times when it really does seem like she gets joy out of hurting people, but I know that's not really the case.  She tries very hard to be a better person, but she just doesn't have the emotional maturity and coping skills that would allow her to do that.        

[svart]

If you are taking revenge do your best. Make it big and never look back, that is forget about it and most important never regret it. Karma doesn't exist at all. I wish you good luck from the dephts of my heart. Only someone that hasn t been hurt as much as I was would recommend to stay NC.