What are the RED FLAGS? Lest we forget

[Moselle]

Nice posts.

Thanks.everyone.

I also remembered  a few.more.

6. Always got a pain somwhere. Neck, back, knee, head.

7. Awkward silences. Can't talk.about issues in a calm normal voice. Always raised emotionally intense conversations.

8. Recying. Break ups and make ups all the time.

9. Disrespect of boundaries. She said " Boundaries are your thing, not mine"

10. Rules apply to you only.  Eg she has a fallout, when i talk to my female friends. Yet she regularly has meeting with her male friends.

11. Always hurting someone.

12. Claims to be a control freak and a 13itch

Yes  we do get caught/ seduced. They read our hot buttons or addictive weaknesses very quickly and play to those  Hence this thread. I've realised just knowing about he red flags isn't enough. We have to heal the wounds which appeal to the drama. If we can do that,  the appetite for the drama is gone. And we can attract healthier partners.

[UVA2002]

It s incredible how repetitive is the pathology of BPD s. It seems to me that all of us shared time with the same demon.

Well put. The devils handmaiden indeed.

[UVA2002]

Yes  we do get caught/ seduced. They read our hot buttons or addictive weaknesses very quickly and play to those  Hence this thread. I've realised just knowing about he red flags isn't enough. We have to heal the wounds which appeal to the drama. If we can do that,  the appetite for the drama is gone. And we can attract healthier partners.

Man that's so true and explains it all. We are not idiots! We know who these girls are they practically yell it out loud "I'm a whore and I'm going to destroy you!"but we enjoy the chaos because of our own issues and self esteem. We wouldn't even be in the path of people like this if we lift ourselves up.

[Moselle]

We wouldn't even be in the path of people like this if we lift ourselves up.

UVA2002, this is correct. There are a number of people on this site who have walked and are walking that path to personal health. To heal the wounds, build a life and thrive. Here'a a link to a site which we can use to track our progress from victim to survivor to thriver.

www.cbwhit.com/Victim-to-survivor.htm

We enjoy the chaos because of our own issues and self esteem.

Do we really enjoy it? It seems to fill a gap in our makeup, however. It fulfills a need. For some reason we need a bit of the chaos to arouse our faculties. Perhaps if we worked on finding our own spark we wouldn't need a person like this.

What are your thoughts?

[bAlex]

Yes  we do get caught/ seduced. They read our hot buttons or addictive weaknesses very quickly and play to those  Hence this thread. I've realised just knowing about he red flags isn't enough. We have to heal the wounds which appeal to the drama. If we can do that,  the appetite for the drama is gone. And we can attract healthier partners.

Man that's so true and explains it all. We are not idiots! We know who these girls are they practically yell it out loud "I'm a whore and I'm going to destroy you!"but we enjoy the chaos because of our own issues and self esteem. We wouldn't even be in the path of people like this if we lift ourselves up.

I'm not so sure, I've mentioned before (speaking as a man) that no man would want to give up good sex and a (extremely) sexy woman. I can honestly say that was probably the biggest reason for me to put up with any of it. Think about it, if she wasn't attractive you wouldn't give her or her problems a second of your thoughts. It also felt good to be idealised (by someone that everyone wants) at the beginning... any guy would love that and fight to try and keep it going. I think ppl should be very careful about putting "labels" on themselves, I think it can be destructive, as self blame seems to be a theme after the discard. Rather get a professional opinion if you suspect deeper issues.

In other words, the hotter the girl = the more crap you're willing to put up with.

Might seem shallow, but that's how I see it.

[burritoman]

Nice posts.

Thanks.everyone.

I also remembered  a few.more.

6. Always got a pain somwhere. Neck, back, knee, head.

7. Awkward silences. Can't talk.about issues in a calm normal voice. Always raised emotionally intense conversations.

8. Recying. Break ups and make ups all the time.

9. Disrespect of boundaries. She said " Boundaries are your thing, not mine"

10. Rules apply to you only.  Eg she has a fallout, when i talk to my female friends. Yet she regularly has meeting with her male friends.

11. Always hurting someone.

12. Claims to be a control freak and a 13itch

Yes  we do get caught/ seduced. They read our hot buttons or addictive weaknesses very quickly and play to those  Hence this thread. I've realised just knowing about he red flags isn't enough. We have to heal the wounds which appeal to the drama. If we can do that,  the appetite for the drama is gone. And we can attract healthier partners.

I agree with all of these except for #6. I mean, I have chronic neck pain that hurts all the time, even as I type this. I ain't BPD.  

[troisette]

Hi Moselle

Thanks for the link to cbwhit  - it looks interesting but I can't access it. Says I don't have permission, even on the main site. Is it a private site? It looks like an interesting topic that I'd like to read. Can you give more info about the site or post another link? Thanks.

I thought of another point too: lying about credentials, schooling, past events. Always a red flag in anyone.

One point I don't concur with: back and neck pain. I've got spinal damage and am in more or less constant pain, not BPD though!   

Troisette.

[circularref]

I've compiled the red flags that applied to me:

- projection

- childhood trauma

- push/pull

- selective memory

- rarely apologizing

- discussing exes

- anger out of nowhere

- self revelation of dark side

- lack of respect of privacy

- lack of shame, superficial remorse

- EXTREME jealousy

- deliberately tries to make you jealous

- immaturity

- arguments that leave you confused or doubting yourself

- being stalked by ex's

- lives filled with drama

- lack of empathy

- impulsive decisions

- openly discusses sex with just about anyone

- constantly makes new friends, mostly with the opposite sex

- needs to be the centre of attention

- can't be alone

- having groupies / orbiters

- overly sensitive to criticism

- things like pets take preference over you

- extremely self centered

- hard to keep commitments / deadlines (perhaps unreliable in some ways, always late etc)

- rules apply to you only

And I'm adding the following:

- instant change of opinion of someone or something (black/white thinking)

- inability to resolve fights (fights are over when the anger calms down, not when a solution has been found)

- fear of abandonment

- nothing you do is good enough

- impossible to reason with

[Moselle]

Thanks for the link to cbwhit  - it looks interesting but I can't access it. Says I don't have permission, even on the main site. Is it a private site? It looks like an interesting topic that I'd like to read. Can you give more info about the site or post another link? Thanks.

One point I don't concur with: back and neck pain. I've got spinal damage and am in more or less constant pain, not BPD though!   

That's wierd. It's seems to have gone down today. I can't access it either.

I have it in a spreadsheet to keep tabs on my growth,  so if you want it please PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.

Re: the constant pain. I'm sorry to hear that. It must be a huge distraction for you in your life. Just to clarify, I'm not making light of  anybody who experiences body pains.

The kinds of pains I'm referring to are the ones that appear out of nowhere, and similarly magically dissappear and may reappear somewhere else. I'm quite empathic so I would usually give attention to it. Only afterwards when I correlated a similar experience with another pw BPD have I realised that it may be a symptom. Perhaps I'm mistaken on this one ☺

[troisette]

Thanks Moselle - I will pm you.

Realise that you are empathic and did not want to infer a lack of sympathy on your part.   

The pain/spasming thing is interesting. I guess if there is much muscle tension then pain would be a result. On the other hand, it could be neurologically linked with BPD? I started another topic here a few days ago about nighttime spasms, these seem to be not unusual too.

Troisette

[UVA2002]

Yes  we do get caught/ seduced. They read our hot buttons or addictive weaknesses very quickly and play to those  Hence this thread. I've realised just knowing about he red flags isn't enough. We have to heal the wounds which appeal to the drama. If we can do that,  the appetite for the drama is gone. And we can attract healthier partners.

Man that's so true and explains it all. We are not idiots! We know who these girls are they practically yell it out loud "I'm a whore and I'm going to destroy you!"but we enjoy the chaos because of our own issues and self esteem. We wouldn't even be in the path of people like this if we lift ourselves up.

I'm not so sure, I've mentioned before (speaking as a man) that no man would want to give up good sex and a (extremely) sexy woman. I can honestly say that was probably the biggest reason for me to put up with any of it. Think about it, if she wasn't attractive you wouldn't give her or her problems a second of your thoughts. It also felt good to be idealised (by someone that everyone wants) at the beginning... any guy would love that and fight to try and keep it going. I think ppl should be very careful about putting "labels" on themselves, I think it can be destructive, as self blame seems to be a theme after the discard. Rather get a professional opinion if you suspect deeper issues.

In other words, the hotter the girl = the more crap you're willing to put up with.

Might seem shallow, but that's how I see it.

True. In my recent BPD girl I was just at a stagnant point in life so it was sorta self esteem issue. This wasn't a girl I would normally classify as super hot just what I needed at the moment I guess. The first girls i experienced these red flags with (undiagnosed pwBPD ) in my 20s they pursued me like game and were attractive. So yeah it was nice to be wanted like that but I realize when I've met girls like this it's when I'm kinda down n the dumps sorta.

[Moselle]

I've compiled the red flags that applied to me:

- projection

- childhood trauma

- push/pull

- selective memory

- rarely apologizing

- discussing exes

- anger out of nowhere

- self revelation of dark side

- lack of respect of privacy

- lack of shame, superficial remorse

- EXTREME jealousy

- deliberately tries to make you jealous

- immaturity

- arguments that leave you confused or doubting yourself

- being stalked by ex's

- lives filled with drama

- lack of empathy

- impulsive decisions

- openly discusses sex with just about anyone

- constantly makes new friends, mostly with the opposite sex

- needs to be the centre of attention

- can't be alone

- having groupies / orbiters

- overly sensitive to criticism

- things like pets take preference over you

- extremely self centered

- hard to keep commitments / deadlines (perhaps unreliable in some ways, always late etc)

- rules apply to you only

And I'm adding the following:

- instant change of opinion of someone or something (black/white thinking)

- inability to resolve fights (fights are over when the anger calms down, not when a solution has been found)

- fear of abandonment

- nothing you do is good enough

- impossible to reason with

Circular ref. Thanks for your list. It's surprising how many of these I can tick off too. I realise however that each pwBPD  is unique and the two that stick out here for me is extreme jealousy and rules only apply to me. Mine refused to accept that I speak to female friends. Cannot condone it, drives her up the wall if I do. Yet she can have coffee with male friends and talks to them often. When I pointed this inequality out to her, it went into orbit.

[bAlex]

I just remembered a HUGE one

- sex is emotionally void and meaningless.

she used to say "thank you" after sex, who does that?

also

- LACK of jealousy!

As in none! She always said she's unable to experience it. If that's the case, it goes to show how shallow her emotions really are...

[NCEA]

Wow. That's a different disorder I think. Total lack of emotions like that.

I just remembered a HUGE one

- sex is emotionally void and meaningless.

she used to say "thank you" after sex, who does that?

also

- LACK of jealousy!

As in none! She always said she's unable to experience it. If that's the case, it goes to show how shallow her emotions really are...

[UVA2002]

Wow. That's a different disorder I think. Total lack of emotions like that.

I just remembered a HUGE one

- sex is emotionally void and meaningless.

she used to say "thank you" after sex, who does that?

also

- LACK of jealousy!

As in none! She always said she's unable to experience it. If that's the case, it goes to show how shallow her emotions really are...

no that's BPD to the t as far as unattached sex but the jealous this is usually a mega factor for BPDs. I've seen an emptiness in their eyes I've never seen its just numb.its sad and scary. I swear I think there are times I could have died and she wouldn't blink an eye

. I know it sounds harsh but it's true. It could be anyone their with as long as it satisfies the immediate.

[homefree]

Something that I noticed in hindsight that could also be a red flag: Lack of any close friends. Tons of 'friends', but no one you think she emotionally could open up to. No one still around from high school, college, previous jobs, only current people she knows.

[betterdayz]

-as soon as you meet them, in the very first conversation they might already start about their troubled life and childhood. yes even sexual abuse. no privacy concerns for them.

-everything is someone else's mistake, they will never own up to anything. they feel entitled to many things, even when it may hurt others. they feel like they are more worthy of it. when someone shows they are being hurt by it, they will lack the empathy to reconsider their actions.

-threatening suicide, disappearing. cutting themselves and showing it off too, to manipulate.

-pregnancy entrapments.

-acting, i mean these people can cry on cue often.

-putting up sad little baby voices, whenever they are confronted with their actions. when that doesn't work. they rage. all though this can be the other way around too.

-they do not logically plan ahead or are able to reason with sense, they jump into whatever decision based on the very emotions they feel right in that moment.

-they will never see your point of view, they might act on it and whine and cry and whatever it is. but their actions don't show it at all. never.

[Brab]

1. They find you... .fall right into your lap, big one for me

2. If something seems too good to be true... .well, it usually is

3. Excessive PDA's (she couldn't keep her hands off me, even after devalue started)

4. Slow and selectively disclosed dramas about past relationships, infidelity etc.

5. Broad gushy statements like "I feel like I can tell you anything"

6. Constantly texting and peculiar attachments to friends and family

7. Blank vacant eyes

8. Big one... .lack of empathy not just for your feelings but for anyone really

[FlyingJ]

1. Secretive life; often would hide from social media, keeping the relationship on the down low.

2. VERY promiscuous past; many partners, involving "hardcore porn" style sex. Humiliation.

3. Absent parent; extreme alienation from the other.

4. No emotion; extreme hate, anger, sadness. Can cry at the drop of a hat. Little happy emotion, and when it does happen, as quick as it came, it was gone.

5. Protective over cell phone; secretive.

6. Never opened up about her past; but quick to divulge how abandoned she's been by every ex including physical contact.

7. No empathy, remorse, sorrow. "It's all about me" attitude. EXTREMELY selfish.

8. Lie after lie after lie after lie. Puzzles pieces never matched, left me second guessing EVERYTHING.

9. VERY manipulative. Extremely cunning but lacks in other common sense areas.

10. Has a career in the "helping" profession.

11. VERY accusatory. Always accused me of the most absurd things; including cheating.

[NCEA]

I don't know about lack of emotions. My ex said she had "feelings" towards all her lovers, that's it's never "just sex". The last time we saw each other she was in tears, saying how much she loves me and that she carries me with her. I think they just don't control the flirting and move from one target to the next very quickly.

[NCEA]

You see, you say "no emotion " and "cry" in the same sentence. People who don't feel don't cry.

1. Secretive life; often would hide from social media, keeping the relationship on the down low.

2. VERY promiscuous past; many partners, involving "hardcore porn" style sex. Humiliation.

3. Absent parent; extreme alienation from the other.

4. No emotion; extreme hate, anger, sadness. Can cry at the drop of a hat. Little happy emotion, and when it does happen, as quick as it came, it was gone.

5. Protective over cell phone; secretive.

6. Never opened up about her past; but quick to divulge how abandoned she's been by every ex including physical contact.

7. No empathy, remorse, sorrow. "It's all about me" attitude. EXTREMELY selfish.

8. Lie after lie after lie after lie. Puzzles pieces never matched, left me second guessing EVERYTHING.

9. VERY manipulative. Extremely cunning but lacks in other common sense areas.

10. Has a career in the "helping" profession.

11. VERY accusatory. Always accused me of the most absurd things; including cheating.

[jujux15]

Hinted at loving me and kids after 3 months

Most if not all relationships whether friend or more ended very badly

Her telling me she can "forget" who someone is if she ignores them long enough

People constantly texting her apologies and she didn't know who they were

Almost put in a psych ward

Very childlike baby talk even (her mom did this too she has issues too but not like my ex)

Proclaimed she never has an issue making bfs yet to my knowledge I was the second serious one

Can make guy friends easily but struggles to make girl friends

Does whatever it takes to fit in with others

I could honestly go on for days haha oh and one of the bigger ones

Compliments from me started to hold little to no value compared to compliments from others. One time somebody called her cute and she told me about It I asked her what's the big deal? I call you attractive and beautiful everyday she said. "yeah but youre my boyfriend you're SUPPOSED to feel that way" that messed me up for a while

[FlyingJ]

I meant no positive emotion. Just negative emotion. Can cry, put on a show but the "empathy" displayed never matched the actions. So, I guess you can say good acting skills (of emotion).

[Moselle]

I've seen an emptiness in their eyes I've never seen its just numb.its sad and scary. I swear I think there are times I could have died and she wouldn't blink an eye

. I know it sounds harsh but it's true. It could be anyone their with as long as it satisfies the immediate.

Mine said to me once that she feels nothing. Not pleasure and not pain. Nothing. After 4 years of therapy she said she felt pleasure for the first time.  Like a blind person who sees for the first time...

Is this a Borderline trait?

Thanks all who have contributed to this thread. It has given me a real insight into Red Flags, why they are difficult to see sometimes, or we see them but ignore their significance.

I think we often overlook them because of one simple reason only. The next day the red flag is gone, the pwBPD sometimes doesn't even remember it happened, so we we enjoy the good side of them. We become numb or insensitive to the red flags in the FOG

Another reason we overlook them is because we need, want or are addicted to something they have. Amazing sex life, charismatic, charming in a public setting, driven or even needy ( which feeds the rescuer in us). We make a choice to stay because the good outweighs the bad. That's still a choice - ours.

It seems inevitably though, when these relationships enter the hatred phase, the bad outweighs the good, and the break up cycle begins.

What are your thoughts?

[once removed]

it sounds like dissociation from feelings; thats a borderline trait.

[EaglesJuju]

This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .