What are the RED FLAGS? Lest we forget

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

What are the most important 's to remember?

I'm doing some serious core work now where I'm building self compassion, and addressing the root of the attraction, but for the life of me, I still find myself attracted to women with issues.

Here are some that I've identified, what are your top 5?

1. Mirroring. Eg her opinion on what makes a healthy relationship started off quite different to mine. She's now saying exactly the same as.mine, to the word. Nothing is so attractive as looking in the mirror 

2. Off comments about personality. Eg she said " You've taken the last little bit of personality that I had" 

3. Projection. Eg "It's your fault... ."

4. Mommy or Daddy issues. Eg fixated with her father. Worships him almost. Detached from her mother.

5. Push and pull behaviour.  Eg.  If I'm having an off day. She throws some drama into the mix which adds pressure on me, or hurts me on top of the already tender spot.

[Moselle]

What are the most important 's to remember?

I'm doing some serious core work now where I'm building self compassion, and addressing the root of the attraction, but for the life of me, I still find myself attracted to women with issues.

Here are some that I've identified, what are your top 5?

1. Mirroring. Eg her opinion on what makes a healthy relationship started off quite different to mine. She's now saying exactly the same as.mine, to the word. Nothing is so attractive as looking in the mirror 

2. Off comments about personality. Eg she said " You've taken the last little bit of personality that I had" 

3. Projection. Eg "It's your fault... ."

4. Mommy or Daddy issues. Eg fixated with her father. Worships him almost. Detached from her mother.

5. Push and pull behaviour.  Eg.  If I'm having an off day. She throws some drama into the mix which adds pressure on me, or hurts me on top of the already tender spot.

[movingon123]

1. Blaming their own feelings on everyone else/saying I caused them to feel a certain way.

2. Push/pull - never experienced six or more break-ups/make-ups before, never gonna let myself do it again.

3. Selective memory less/disassociation. I'm sure it is real and unpleasant, but so is being accused of taking things that were given as a gift.

4. Rarely apologizing. For anything.

5. Accusations that are not founded in reality, and take away my own agency in any situation (e.g. They would tell me: "everything you do is from some unconscious reason that even you don't know, but *I* do".

[Moselle]

#4 reay gets to me. No apologies!

[burritoman]

1. Extreme Pressure - through marriage, sexual exploits, drugs. Not giving in leads to guilting and is a sign of abandonment

2. Discussing exes ad nauseum

3. Dangling other prospects over your head

4. Flat out TELLING YOU how messed up they are

[Schermarhorn]

1. Suicidal ideation

2. Mixed signals

3. Rushing the relationship

4. Family issues

5. Badmouthing exes

6. Stories that don't add up

7. Rages out of nowhere

[JaneStorm]

Great topic!

Many of mine will be repeated with the rest of you, I am sure!

1.   Incessant talking about exes and every other woman he ever had sex with. Life stories shared with me. Yuck.

2.   Crying ‘victim’ after 10, 20, and 30 years after an event. Doing nothing to change the circumstances.

3.   Immediate anger and defense when asked for clarification of something that did not make sense (caught in LIES).

4.   Mixed signals.

5.   Rushing the relationship; did not want to cohabitate after 1.5 years. I had to marry him. Uh….no.

6.   Breaking up (“I’m DONE! I will get my things this weekend!”) at every minor issue. Next day, “Hey, sorry I was upset last night…... ”

7.   Telling me that he can’t change at age 52 and I needed to get to a place of “zero defense” towards him. (?)

8.   Literally cuddling so tightly, it felt like he was trying to crawl INSIDE my skin! SMOTHERING ME.

9.   After being caught doing the wrong thing, installed a track app acting like it would help me but he was tracking ME! Ugh.

10.   Claiming an “anti-conflict personality”, only to erupt into blinding rages over nothing (that I could see through the prism of my Reality).

11.   Blocking phone numbers, blocking profiles from social media, locking the phone, taking the phone into the bathroom, constantly glancing at it like it was going to jump up and bite him.

12.   Idealizing his daughter and trying to pretend his son does not exist; while they are in the same room.

13.   Projecting his bad behavior onto me as if I did those things.

14.   And the biggest one at the beginning……… “I am a chameleon.”

[burritoman]

5.   Rushing the relationship; did not want to cohabitate after 1.5 years. I had to marry him. Uh….no.

6.   Breaking up (“I’m DONE! I will get my things this weekend!”) at every minor issue. Next day, “Hey, sorry I was upset last night…... ”

5. YES YES AND YES! I wanted to move in together before getting married. She said that we would be "just roommates." ?

6. I also frequently heard the "I'm coming up on Sunday to get my things." THIS time around though, she leaves all of her things up here and we haven't spoken in over 2 months! ?

[JaneStorm]

5.   Rushing the relationship; did not want to cohabitate after 1.5 years. I had to marry him. Uh….no.

6.   Breaking up (“I’m DONE! I will get my things this weekend!”) at every minor issue. Next day, “Hey, sorry I was upset last night…... ”

5. YES YES AND YES! I wanted to move in together before getting married. She said that we would be "just roommates." ?

6. I also frequently heard the "I'm coming up on Sunday to get my things." THIS time around though, she leaves all of her things up here and we haven't spoken in over 2 months! ?

wow; there must be a handbook they read from! Each time he did that, even when we made up, I had him take stuff with... .

The last time he pulled the "I'm getting my things Sunday!" I calmly told him that EVERYTHING will be in my driveway on Saturday (this was after T-giving and his ugliness). I didn't put them out there though, (too much crap plus a motorcycle). I knew this was winding down and my heart hurt. He took it all. Nothing left. Then, just over the holidays he informed me he would like to have shoes, clothing, and sundries at my house for convenience. I said nothing because I knew it was going to end by midmonth January. My tolerance for BS is on empty. It was easy with no items to keep them hooked. I put him on his proverbial horse this past Sunday for the last time. One bag full of cooking items and off he went. He is still stunned.

[NCEA]

1) Extreme sexual promiscuity (double penetration, organizes orgies, sex with complete strangers in an arrangement based on a photo)

2) Likes to humiliate and be humiliated in sex - BDSM, asked for a "golden shower", likes to penetrate men.

3) No relationship without cheating.

4) Most relationships long distance to avoid intimacy and be found out as what she is.

5) Self revelations of dark side - I'm a monster, I'm a Nazi, I'm afraid of being myself.

6) Mental issues - psychosis ("the walls are moving", panic attacks (triggered by a movie), mental breakdowns (due to too much work)

7) Constant triangulation, mentioning of exes, lining up orbiters.

8) Lack of respect to privacy (looked over the content of my suitcase)

9) Lies

10) Impaired speech (would start mumbling when spoke about embarrassing issues like an abortion.

11) Self esteem that will range from "I'm total" to "I AM the".

12) Extreme mirroring during love bombing ("I started talking like you" "I'm using your gestures", taking on hobbies and interests)

13) Initially moving relationship very quickly.

14) Devaluation stage - invalidation, disrespect.

15) Devaluation stage - Games in communication, hot / cold , texting other guys when she's with you, keeping orbiters.

16) Walking the edge - pushing you away and once you show signs of leaving, start pulling you back in.

17) History of trauma - early divorce of parents, abandoning father, anorexia as a teen, sexual harassment as a teen, leaving home early, fluctuations in relationship with parents, alcoholic mother, had an abortion during early 20s.

18) Lack of emotions when otherwise would be expected (didn't care at all when I broke up with her)

19) Most disgusting discards with all exes boyfriends and lovers.

20) Extremely seductive and uses sex to control others.

21) Quick tempered.

22) Lack of any shame, superficial remorse for past wrong doing.

23) Frequent use of drugs as a teen ("there were drugs everywhere"

24) Selfishness, lack of warmth outside of the bed.

25) Quickly to declare that we're soul mates then fell in love with someone else in 4 days. LOL.

PARTIAL LIST. WE ONLY SPENT 20 DAYS TOGETHER, over a 6 months long distance relationship.

[troisette]

Good thread Moselle!

1.  Triangulation/flirting.

2.  Idealising/devaluing exs and children.

3.  Lack of recognition of any responsibility in problematic past relationships.

4.  Control, however passive.

5.  Undermining comments disguised as helpfulness.

6.  Rapid idealisation.

7.  Intermittent communication.

8.  History of mental illness in the family.

9.  Over-the-top reaction to perceived criticisms/put downs from strangers.

10. History of adultery.

11. Too much information about intimacy re previous relationships.

12. Immaturity.

[JaneStorm]

Good thread Moselle!

1.  Triangulation/flirting.  yes

2.  Idealising/devaluing exs and children.  yes

3.  Lack of recognition of any responsibility in problematic past relationships.  yes

4.  Control, however passive.  yes

5.  Undermining comments disguised as helpfulness.

6.  Rapid idealisation.  yes

7.  Intermittent communication.

8.  History of mental illness in the family.

9.  Over-the-top reaction to perceived criticisms/put downs from strangers.

10. History of adultery.   yes

[bAlex]

- you having to explain basic acceptable behaviour

- arguments that leave you confused or doubting yourself

- history of abusive or unhealthy relationships

- bad breakups

- claiming to have supernatural interactions (spirits, demons etc)

- cluster headaches (some research suggests a large number of sufferers display personality disorder symptoms)

- being stalked by ex's

- lives filled with drama

- erratic emotions

- problematic childhood

- impulsive decisions

- lack of empathy

- openly discusses sex with just about anyone

- alienating partners

- tries to dominate the relationship

- naivety

- constantly makes new friends, mostly with the opposite sex

- exceptionally high libido, has extreme fantasies (to the point where you question their self respect)

- needs to be the centre of attention

- uses looks / seduction to manipulate men

- can't be alone

- plays the victim

- claims to have cheated previously

- claims to hate themselves

- deceitful

- feeling they can't be trusted

- seeking out sex after a good cry

- creates drama to push you away

- having groupies / orbiters

- seeks attention

- immature / childish

- a feeling of disconnect when you're with them

- inappropriate discussions about past sexual encounters or ex's

- deliberately tries to make you jealous

- comes from a broken home

[bAlex]

- overly sensitive to criticism

- gets over hurt with relative ease

- not showing remorse / guilt

[didionit]

bAlex, if it wasn't clear you were talking about a woman instead of a man, i'd say we dated the same exact person.

i'd add:  rapid clear cycling through the same patterns over and over, that clearly illustrates an unwillingness to sit with any sort of bad feeling, guilt, or clarity of self-perception (i.e., extreme outburst of anger, followed by remorse, followed by negation of any sort of 'understanding' they appear to achieve in the remorse cycle, followed by blaming of others/projection, followed by forgetting anything that happened at all, repeat... .)

[thisworld]

Great topic!

Many of mine will be repeated with the rest of you, I am sure!

1.   Incessant talking about exes and every other woman he ever had sex with. Life stories shared with me. Yuck.

2.   Crying ‘victim’ after 10, 20, and 30 years after an event. Doing nothing to change the circumstances.

3.   Immediate anger and defense when asked for clarification of something that did not make sense (caught in LIES).

4.   Mixed signals.

5.   Rushing the relationship; did not want to cohabitate after 1.5 years. I had to marry him. Uh….no.

6.   Breaking up (“I’m DONE! I will get my things this weekend!”) at every minor issue. Next day, “Hey, sorry I was upset last night…... ”

7.   Telling me that he can’t change at age 52 and I needed to get to a place of “zero defense” towards him. (?)

8.   Literally cuddling so tightly, it felt like he was trying to crawl INSIDE my skin! SMOTHERING ME.

9.   After being caught doing the wrong thing, installed a track app acting like it would help me but he was tracking ME! Ugh.

10.   Claiming an “anti-conflict personality”, only to erupt into blinding rages over nothing (that I could see through the prism of my Reality).

11.   Blocking phone numbers, blocking profiles from social media, locking the phone, taking the phone into the bathroom, constantly glancing at it like it was going to jump up and bite him.

12.   Idealizing his daughter and trying to pretend his son does not exist; while they are in the same room.

13.   Projecting his bad behavior onto me as if I did those things.

14.   And the biggest one at the beginning……… “I am a chameleon.”

Incredible I experienced all of these except 11 and 12 - he doesn't have children. Only he is a "collage" instead of a chameleon and "anti-conflict personality" is "lovingly and compassionately." Number 7 was saved for recycling attempts apparently. He wants to be together with me again and says we should focus on important things and think about how we can "add value" (argh!) to each others' lives and for this, I need to accept him fully (fully means his compassionate friendship with exes (i.e. lying to them about my sex life etc), his active addiction, and all these above, all of which are of course my fault.)  We were together for 2.5-3 months, what value?

[JaneStorm]

Thisworld,

I am impressed you wised up sooner than later!  

[bAlex]

bAlex, if it wasn't clear you were talking about a woman instead of a man, i'd say we dated the same exact person.

i'd add:  rapid clear cycling through the same patterns over and over, that clearly illustrates an unwillingness to sit with any sort of bad feeling, guilt, or clarity of self-perception (i.e., extreme outburst of anger, followed by remorse, followed by negation of any sort of 'understanding' they appear to achieve in the remorse cycle, followed by blaming of others/projection, followed by forgetting anything that happened at all, repeat... .)

!  I was thinking something similar... I'm willing to bet some ppl here have dated the same person.

That last part about seemingly forgetting and repeating... so true.

[thisworld]

JaneStorm,

My ex also has strong narcissistic traits (somatic), was your partner narcissistic, too? I'll try to make a list of narcissistic red flags as soon as I can collect my thoughts, actually.

My ex was overtly difficult from early on - though we had a beautiful 1 month period, albeit with narcissism. I attributed his problems to addiction but then realized that it wasn't only that. basically, there is nothing I can reasonably do with this guy, he doesn't realize that I'm a separate being. He didn't say anything with "how about you? and you?" etc. Not once. Never. With all this emotional turmoil, he is also the most demanding human being I've ever encountered, only he demands sadly and in a pained way sometimes. A failed narcissist really.  

[thisworld]

I'm willing to bet some ppl here have dated the same person.

Yes, I often think about this, too. Even the dialogues are very similar. And I live at the other end of the world. Incredible.

[JaneStorm]

JaneStorm,

My ex also has strong narcissistic traits (somatic), was your partner narcissistic, too? I'll try to make a list of narcissistic red flags as soon as I can collect my thoughts, actually.

My ex was overtly difficult from early on - though we had a beautiful 1 month period, albeit with narcissism. I attributed his problems to addiction but then realized that it wasn't only that. basically, there is nothing I can reasonably do with this guy, he doesn't realize that I'm a separate being. He didn't say anything with "how about you? and you?" etc. Not once. Never. With all this emotional turmoil, he is also the most demanding human being I've ever encountered, only he demands sadly and in a pained way sometimes. A failed narcissist really.  

No, he is not NPD. Although, he was selfish. When angry, we all have narcissistic characteristics. He is very sweet. He is self-involved but I would not say he was NPD.

[movingon123]

- overly sensitive to criticism

- gets over hurt with relative ease

- not showing remorse / guilt

My exUBPD crashed my car right before the last push, and remarked they thought it was strange they didn't feel guilty. I asked what they would do if I had crashed their car, and they said they wouldn't speak to me. Different realities, I suppose.

[svart]

It s incredible how repetitive is the pathology of BPD s. It seems to me that all of us shared time with the same demon.

[UVA2002]

The girls came at me. I didn't approach them or anything they basically asked me out like a guy. If a girl is worthy you have to pursue her if they pursue you they want something. To stop this we need to be more assertive.

Doesn't buy food/groceries- depends on others

Family /friends never visits - it takes some serious issues for no holiday visits one way or the other

Been sexually assaulted at some point or claims to be in my cases by "thuggish types ".So sexual assault def red flag and seeking risky situations.

Any assortment of medication or clinical history of mental illness. Duh

As stated many times MIRRORING! Trying to read you and playing off that theatrical style. "She seems so familiar " we're like peas n a pod etc. she's playing us.

Secretive texts - keeping options open keeping the chain going backups "just friends "you guys know what I mean.

Loves the "rough stuff " definitely red flag mean she enjoys abusing and degrading herself.

[CollateralDamage]

Doesn't buy food/groceries- depends on others

Family /friends never visits - it takes some serious issues for no holiday visits one way or the other

Been sexually assaulted at some point or claims to be in my cases by "thuggish types ".So sexual assault def red flag and seeking risky situations.

Any assortment of medication or clinical history of mental illness. Duh

As stated many times MIRRORING! Trying to read you and playing off that theatrical style. "She seems so familiar " we're like peas n a pod etc. she's playing us.

Secretive texts - keeping options open keeping the chain going backups "just friends "you guys know what I mean.

Loves the "rough stuff " definitely red flag mean she enjoys abusing and degrading herself.

Wow... .all with mine except point 3- except my replacement was a murder felon that was in jail for 27 yrs. She hangs around and hires these people to work for her... .then lets them hang over at her house with her 3-5 year old kids.  JEEZ

[UVA2002]

Doesn't buy food/groceries- depends on others

Family /friends never visits - it takes some serious issues for no holiday visits one way or the other

Been sexually assaulted at some point or claims to be in my cases by "thuggish types ".So sexual assault def red flag and seeking risky situations.

Any assortment of medication or clinical history of mental illness. Duh

As stated many times MIRRORING! Trying to read you and playing off that theatrical style. "She seems so familiar " we're like peas n a pod etc. she's playing us.

Secretive texts - keeping options open keeping the chain going backups "just friends "you guys know what I mean.

Loves the "rough stuff " definitely red flag mean she enjoys abusing and degrading herself.

Wow... .all with mine except point 3- except my replacement was a murder felon that was in jail for 27 yrs. She hangs around and hires these people to work for her... .then lets them hang over at her house with her 3-5 year old kids.  JEEZ

That's why we needn't wish any harm they will do it to themselves unfortunately.

[bAlex]

The girls came at me. I didn't approach them or anything they basically asked me out like a guy.

I was thinking about this the other day too... thought it seemed a little odd in hindsight.

[UVA2002]

The girls came at me. I didn't approach them or anything they basically asked me out like a guy.

I was thinking about this the other day too... thought it seemed a little odd in hindsight.

Predators

[bAlex]

forgot to mention

- things like pets take preference over you

- hates routine

- extremely self centered

- hard to keep commitments / deadlines (perhaps unreliable in some ways, always late etc)

- seem to have little depth, avoid deep thoughts

[bAlex]

The girls came at me. I didn't approach them or anything they basically asked me out like a guy.

I was thinking about this the other day too... thought it seemed a little odd in hindsight.

Predators

Bingo! 

I'm actually starting to wonder why we are here... .having read the posts no one should realistically want to be around this...

[UVA2002]

The girls came at me. I didn't approach them or anything they basically asked me out like a guy.

I was thinking about this the other day too... thought it seemed a little odd in hindsight.

Predators

Bingo! 

I'm actually starting to wonder why we are here... .having read the posts no one should realistically want to be around this...

Hey man that's their power the siren song that has brought down many a strong man it happens to the best of us and in my cases it was at a low or boring part of my life they sorta snared me. But it all comes around no way around it and I'm glad to read other experiences people have had and we will survive. BPD or not mean people suck.