BPD vs. traits of BPD

[Itstopsnow]

I read sometimes about BPD and they say a person can have BPD or traits of BPD. What is the difference ? Can someone help me understand ?  Can someone exhibit less symptoms and only display certain traits. would they then not be considered a BPD person?

[GreenEyedMonster]

Clinicians look for patients to have a certain number of traits from the DSM in order to make a diagnosis.  All of us probably have a couple.  But there are people who are somewhere in the middle, who have more BPD traits than average, but are "subclinical" and can't be diagnosed.

[Itstopsnow]

Oh... .thank you. I didn't know that

[Invictus01]

Another issue is that the vast majority of personality disordered people are either not diagnosed because they don't think anything is wrong with them and don't go in for an evaluation or misdiagnosed with something else (because in many cases insurance won't touch somebody with a PD diagnosis or they just don't wanna deal with a PD person). So, all you really have left is to see if you see traits of a PD in a person and if you do see enough of them, you can walk away with less harm done to you.

[Lonely_Astro]

Green is correct.  :)iagnosed BPDs can have traits of other Cluster B disorders: NPD, HPD, and ASPD.  Cluster B disorders are 'fluid' if you will, there is overlap between them.  But as Green said, they have to 'meet' so many of each criteria to be considered one of the disorders in the DSM.

It's complicated, to say the least.

[Lonely_Astro]

Another issue is that the vast majority of personality disordered people are either not diagnosed because they don't think anything is wrong with them and don't go in for an evaluation or misdiagnosed with something else (because in many cases insurance won't touch somebody with a PD diagnosis or they just don't wanna deal with a PD person). So, all you really have left is to see if you see traits of a PD in a person and if you do see enough of them, you can walk away with less harm done to you.

Sometimes the person also lies to the evaluator, so they aren't diagnosed because they don't have all the facts.  That is, if the person will even go in for an eval.  Also, a diagnosis means very little if the person isn't willing to do the work to maintain a 'normal' life with a balance of medication and therapy.

Many of you on here know my story with my diagnosed pwBPD, J.  J is diagnosed, medicated, and had started DBT (she claims she's still going).  That didn't prevent a rupture in our r/s that started downhill in October.  We officially ended in mid-December when I found out she had dated another guy while we were in limbo (I was under the impression we were "working it out" - code for she'll date someone but I had better not, if you will).  I also found out while speaking to her today that she's been on "a couple of dates" with a different (new) guy.

Obviously, she's not taking DBT to serious if she isn't willing to focus on herself and do the work like she should.  I'm not saying she should be a shut in, what I am saying is that dating would be the last thing on my mind if I were going through that kind of therapy because I would want a meaningful, healthy, and lasting r/s.  But, then again, I'm not disordered.

[Itstopsnow]

And they can't really socialize with friends because many can't maintain friendships. So her dating is because she is afraid to be alone, it's not about you , or about taking time for her to go into therapy. She can't do anything in life without a safety net of having someone to be with. It could be anyone. It's more about the disorder than their disordered life, I'm convinced it's the illness that dictates their behaviors. Funny because people with BPD don't want to be only known for just being a person with BPD. But the ironic thing is... .If they all committed and went to therapy and really threw themselves 100% into it. They would probably all make significant improvements and could possibly live a happy almost completely regular life style. But when they don't get therapy. It's the illness that owns them and dictates how things will be for them,  So in essence they are their own stumbling block, and they make themselves be all about their illness because that is all they can put fourth . Is actions based on reactions to their own sickness. . I hope that made some sense to what I was trying to say

[Lonely_Astro]

And they can't really socialize with friends because many can't maintain friendships. So her dating is because she is afraid to be alone, it's not about you , or about taking time for her to go into therapy. She can't do anything in life without a safety net of having someone to be with. It could be anyone. It's more about the disorder than their disordered life, I'm convinced it's the illness that dictates their behaviors. Funny because people with BPD don't want to be only known for just being a person with BPD. But the ironic thing is... .If they all committed and went to therapy and really threw themselves 100% into it. They would probably all make significant improvements and could possibly live a happy almost completely regular life style. But when they don't get therapy. It's the illness that owns them and dictates how things will be for them,  So in essence they are their own stumbling block, and they make themselves be all about their illness because that is all they can put fourth . Is actions based on reactions to their own sickness. . I hope that made some sense to what I was trying to say

Yes, it's paradoxical for sure.  The sad truth is that even therapy isn't a guarantee, unless they are extremely dedicated and stick with the work to achieve that goal, they won't. 

J is very self aware that her behavior isn't 'right'.  She's diagnosed, medicated, and (allegedly) going to DBT.  It still didn't prevent her from discarding me and not being able to say why she did, other than "we had nothing in common, really".  That isn't the BPD talking, we actually had very very little in common but I still feel we would've had a fine r/s because I have such varied tastes.  Plus, Im a mature, normal adult and realize that people are people with their own set of likes/dislikes.

I was once asked if I would still feel the same way for J if she wasn't BPD.  I can honestly say that not only would I still feel the same way for her, I would love her more because I would know that I had the actual J that she was supposed to be.  Does that mean J would be attracted to me though?  Probably not, but who knows.

[GoingBack2OC]

Another issue is that the vast majority of personality disordered people are either not diagnosed because they don't think anything is wrong with them and don't go in for an evaluation or misdiagnosed with something else (because in many cases insurance won't touch somebody with a PD diagnosis or they just don't wanna deal with a PD person). So, all you really have left is to see if you see traits of a PD in a person and if you do see enough of them, you can walk away with less harm done to you.

I think this is a big one. If the person clearly, and I mean clearly demonstrates over and over again specific red flag traits, yet acts in complete denial, or outright insult/anger if you were to calmly; and in a caring manner, bring up the fact, and the "facts" that they may have a problem (or even may need to self improve a bit); that at least for BPD would be a big calling card. In fact I've read many times the single differentiator (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the "true" BPD/NPD personalities will never admit to being BPD/NPD, not seek treatment, or not be able to handle treatment.

I also read on more than one occasion that many p-docs don't take on BPD and NPD cases because typically the treatment results in total failure. An curable patient because the patient cannot see there is a problem.

Personally; I feel over the course of my last relationship- for whatever reason; not pointing fingers at all, that I have in some ways "become" slightly BPD, or at least acted BPD, especially under extreme stress, emotional, work stress, whatever.

But I am conscious of it, and now looking back on the past 5 years realize this is something I had discussed with my psychiatrist as "a problem of the relationship/her". I need to moving forward have an honest discussion with him, and move the focus more inward, in terms of why I personally respond and get so upset when specific triggers happen. I realize I do certain things which are not ok. I realize it is unhealthy. So I feel if I am somewhere on the spectrum of being BPD personally, I can move to make changes and be better and conflict resolution.

I also think that sometimes "the relationship" whether it be romantic, family, or freind; the personality types of those involved play a big part.

My partner is likely a INTJ, and I'm a pretty solid INFP. While some say that can be a good match, many comment it can be difficult because INTJ's are usually not interested in "feelings" or "talking about emotions", and the INFP, being very in touch with feelings, wanting to resolve conflict right away, wants harmony in life; will smother the INTJ thus causing a lot of drama.

I only bring this up because the BPD traits I've personally demonstrated over say the past 2-3 years; I've never had before in any other relationship, long term or not. So it might be that our personality types simply don't align, and in short; we bring out the worst in eachother.

[thisworld]

I have read that there is also gender bias in diagnoses.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3115767/