No more wound-activation in relationships. Here is why I'm finished with that.

[thisworld]

So, after my brief relationship with the pwBPD, I can say with great certainty that I don’t want to and I can’t be with people who help me repeat that childhood trauma. I had a chance to experience this. I’m actually grateful. I feel strong. I feel like I’be truly left something behind. Not exactly the trauma. It’s not one trauma, it’s years and years of conditioning, ambient abuse- albeit not as horrendous as I know from some other people. When I say I don’t want to, I mean I actually have no desire for it, it doesn’t give me the satisfaction it used to give. I never experienced it as some clear satisfaction before, but there was something, something that kept me in those relationships. Something that somehow kept me involved even if my mind said otherwise. In this last relationship, I discovered that I’m not motivated to do that anymore. Not one bit. I don’t feel involved. I get bored. With people suitable for activating this trauma, I feel like having to deal with a kid that’s not even mine. I feel like I’m stuck with the neighbour’s spoilt brat and the neighbor is not coming back to get the brat whereas I should be going to the beach or reading a novel or doing something. Anything. Anything but having to deal with the brat. I actually think my mother is something of a brat as well. She used to be a scary thug for me. She can certainly be a bully if she wants to. However, not as big and scary as she used to be. For a while, I have been perceiving her as a school-age bully and a very rude small child. She isn’t as scary. Maybe age has helped me a little bit. I like thinking that I’ve grown out of it. No more brats. Male, female I don’t care. I lost interest. This is how I feel. I’m happy about this.

As for I “can’t”, I’m not feeling that this is something I “can’t” do because it will be dangerous for me. I simply can’t because I feel very bored. It’s like having to watch a stupid stupid stupid TV drama where actors are so bad, characters are so flat, the script is so bad. And you know, maybe you take this TV drama issue so seriously that you want to write a letter to the director giving your feedback but you know that the director is as bad as the rest. I’d rather change the channel.

Even if I wanted to, there are technical, intellectual, sociological problems that prevent me feeling involved. I basically feel repulsed. I feel too repulsed by the situations that have a potential to activate my wound that I can’t get sad properly

I don’t live in the US. I am 38 and divorced after a 12 year marriage, and something happened to the men in my country. Almost all my single female friends or those experiencing problematic relationships are of this opinion. Was this always like this? Have we got more social media and other tools now that make this clearer? My male friends don’t talk this but it doesn’t mean that women are not doing this. But basically, we are unable to experience proper heart breaks where we are genuinely, full heartedly saddened. In our lives, heartbreaks are experienced in such warped situations that one side of you is sad but one side of you can’t stop thinking “what the hell, what a moronic, entitled, childish thing.” We can’t even have fully sad facial expressions, we end up with a stupid, semi-surprised, weird look as if we have just seen, say the neighbour’s brat in our living room all of a sudden, wrapped in toilet paper and eating an ice-cream. You can’t laugh, you can’t cry. In my language, we used the word “locked.” We say you “locked” me – like I don’t how to react. Emotions get confused )  For one thing, there are so many violations of basic human respect, basic genuineness that you can’t even take everything personally. And these are supposed to be these intimate relationships that activate our most vulnerable wounds. Mine are not activated through juvenile FB/social media situations where there is a “like” war going on. It’s so commonplace, so predictable that it hardly activates anything anymore. Same thing over and over. It doesn’t feel unique. That’s the common situation in my country and in my age group.

My mother didn’t have triangulations like this. She had other triangulations but I’m an only child so even though I certainly felt she loved my cousins more than me sometimes (when she gave away my pencils to them without asking for my permission or treated them very differently, very kindly, ow it still hurts). Still, we aren’t a closely-knit, big family and I knew that my status as the “child” was never threatened.

In an adult relationship, in my experience, a biological stranger creates this through love triangulations. It’s a whole different situation. And it is generated with different tools, like social media and exes. But there is a different social understanding around these as well. For one thing, we call men with so many interfering exes as men with too much “baggage.”  It’s known that this “baggage” has typical effects on relationships. I never saw my cousins as “baggage.” I took that personally, I can’t take this fully personally. Not when it repeats itself everywhere. And there isn’t much beyond this. Men who are able to activate that trauma don’t have a big repertoire I think. They are almost silently begging like “react to this, react to this.”  My mother is a bit like that, too. She lurks around the house passive aggressively, making strange sounds. I used to perceive them as threatening sounds. For a while, I have been actually listening to the sounds themselves. They are the funniest sounds. They are even fun in their own way. Because I feel less threatened by her, I sometimes allow myself to laugh – genuinely though, never to hurt her. And sometimes she laughs, too. It’s a cute situation with her round eyed looks. Sometimes I want to laugh genuinely at the triangulations, too (funny things happen there.) Try to do that around the activators, the ___ may hit the fan:))

Another reason why it’s not the same thing is that there is a body connection. My physical body as a woman occupies more space in these relationships than it did with my mother. That brings in a lot of new sociological implications. I may be someone who wants to date her invalidating mother, but I’m also an adult with an intellectual perspective on things. This allows me different ways of perceiving my body as a woman and how it is objectified by culture say for oppression, increasing sales whatnot. I have certain attitudes about these and they get between my wound-activation fantasies and my male candidates for this.

And a final note about my mother because I’m practicing gratefulness. Let’s be honest here. She probably hurt me more than my exes have ever done because I was young. But then she has actually done more for me than these people have ever done as well. She is on the lower end of NPD, still very difficult but supported me a lot during certain periods in my life. (You have to build up to knock down ha ha ;-) Still, when I compare, she simply wins over these boys:))

[eeks]

Hi thisworld,

What I think you're saying is that you no longer experience a "pull", unconscious or out of your awareness, towards people who are not capable of an emotionally healthy intimate relationship.  That's something to celebrate!   

It also sounds like you are saying you got to that point by developing an identity for yourself separate from your FOO including your mother and her demanding emotions.  So you have emotionally "left home", and there's also maybe something in there about learning to set emotional boundaries.

You also recognize that you are not living in a very "emotionally intelligent" culture - for example, people are not comfortable enough with sadness in order to fully grieve their heartbreaks.  Which is unfortunate, but at least you've recognized that this is the case.  A discomfort with sadness and grief sounds problematic to me, because grieving leaves a person "fresh" for their next relationship, less likely to come into it with preconceived notions and resentment from past hurts. 

So, what's next for you?  How will you approach dating, knowing everything that you know now? 

eeks

[thisworld]

So you have emotionally "left home", and there's also maybe something in there about learning to set emotional boundaries.

eeks

This. My question is why did I accept so many fait accomplis? I have been taking serious inventory in that regard. I'll put it into words soon.

The experience of grief in my case. What I was trying to say is that, for instance, in my circle of friends, of course  everyone is grieving in their own way. Everyone is said event though it was the most meaningless relationship. In the end of the day, there is a reason why we accepted these relationships. But when we talk to each other, this emotional cheating thing, Facebook games and everything are almost so scripted that it becomes very difficult to perceive these only as personal things. At one point, people start laughing, even if bitterly. There is a sense of comic in this in that sense. I think in grieving when both people are alive, there needs to be a different element - I don't know what that is though- so that grief really means that deep deep thing that I usually understand from it. My ex practiced behaviours that brought the end of our relationship all his life I think. I never fully thought "I'll be different." I thought, if we work on it, maybe things can be different. He didn't, he gave me a false impression that I readily bought for my own reasons. That's why, it's easier to accept the loss I think; I don't think I have a particular problem with being one of the many women in this scenario. I lke thinking that we are all unique anyway, it's him objectifying people. So, I don't grieve the way I did say when I lost my father when I was 17 - loss of someone whom I loved and love me. I don't grieve the way I grieved for my marriage - loss of someone who, to my knowledge, used to love me. This brief relationship doesn't give me those big feelings. Limited contact and the opportunity to see my ex in different situations is kind of helpful. There seems to be more to celebrate than to grieve really - though I cry sometimes. It's like I'm grieving for my own reasons.

But I think you are very right in the sense that my understanding of the sociological is possible through inner detachment. If the need was there I would not even look at this sociology I think. I never thought about it before you said it.

As for the next date:)) When I first came to this site, I was thinking wow, a more controlled ASPD would be preferable to this person. This is a non-serious thought of course. But it has two pieces of truth for me. One, I'm very tired of emotional volatility. The second is, unless I stop taking high risks in the beginnings of a relationship, I may really end up with the higher end of the scale - the more the challenge the better:)) 

How will I approach dating? I don't know. I'm a bit dismissive nowadays. (I did an attachment style test and normally, I'm in the middle of secure with low anxiety and after this relationship, I'm still in the secure attachment but a bit more dismissive than usual, though not terribly dismissive). I think this is a defense. I need to heal more.

For the time being, I know what I don't want. A couple of days ago, I met someone who "would" be "ideal" in a lot of senses but I think there were some red flags. (We were in a group) Then in the evening, there were more red flags (in his group behaviour, I didn't get much personal). I was so satisfied with myself Eeks:)) I felt like a little Einstein:)) So my approach at the moment is observe for longer than 6 hours and ask questions:)) Also, don't hide yourself that much. I don't have anything more than this unfortunately :-(( I want to practice these new things and maybe there will be someone, I don't know:))   

[fromheeltoheal]

I don’t want to and I can’t be with people who help me repeat that childhood trauma.

I'm with you all the way TW.  And like you, after extracting myself from a relationship with a Cluster B and filling my head up with clinical and attachment style stuff, I too am extra self-protective, a good thing really, really taking my time to look at folks through new, better glasses, clean ones with the fog and delusion wiped from them, and the view is stark at times.

And that's great from an intellectual, detached place, but says nothing about what happens when I become emotionally enmeshed with someone.  Enmeshed, a term with a negative connotation around here, but what I mean by it is just 'involved' I suppose.  Anyway, I've learned a lot.  A borderline, someone who MUST attach to someone to survive, has hooks, emotional hooks, and gets extremely good at setting those hooks in just the right emotional places, where one tug can send me spinning, and most importantly to the crafty borderline, not leave.  So what's the answer?  Get the fck out to begin with, which was easy really, it was either that or kill the fcking btch at the end, but then what?  Detach, heal, yadda, but the key, the real key, is to address those places where the hooks were, permanently, so I'm immune to someone trying to set hooks, I'm free from the Cluster B's for life.

So I've been digging into complex PTSD lately, which I tiptoed into at first, I wasn't abused, my parents were married and "loved" each other, I had a very good childhood compared to some, blah, blah.  Doesn't matter, I was neglected emotionally, and somewhat shamed by folks who were projecting their own sht on me I now realize, but nonetheless this new path I'm on has been fruitful, and scary, but I KNOW it's the right path for me.

Symptoms of CPTSD:

1. Emotional Flashbacks

2. Tyrannical Inner &/ or Outer Critic

3. Toxic Shame

4. Self-Abandonment

5. Social anxiety

6. Abject feelings of loneliness and abandonment

7. Fragile Self-esteem

8. Attachment disorder

9. Developmental Arrests

10. Relationship difficulties

11. Radical mood vacillations

12. Dissociation via distracting activities or mental processes

13. Hair-triggered fight/ flight response

14. Oversensitivity to stressful situations

15. Suicidal Ideation

Now no need to freak out, dysfunctional families are the norm, functional families the exception, and most folks experience these symptoms to some degree or another.  That said, I experience 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9 (sorta), 10, 12, and 14, although I'm also proud of myself because I've been working on this stuff for decades and I've come a long way, but the gift of the relationship with a borderline is that the work I still get to do had a spotlight shined on it, thanks for that babe, and there ARE solutions, and I AM on the right track.  Hallelujah!

So there's that.  Went off TW, hope you don't mind and there may be some value there for you too, and as far as relationships go, she needs to show me that making room in my life for her is a good idea, because she's supportive, respectful, communicative, kind, and somewhat put together, no more than me necessarily but certainly no less, otherwise she needs to bugger off to interject some Brit.  Life's too short for any more silliness.

I was going to go off on a diatribe about Facebook, the black hole of cyberdysfunction, but I need more coffee (#12, distracting activities), so I'll leave it here for now.  Take care of you!

[thisworld]

Hello FHTH,

No, I don't mind that you went off. I believe that many beneficial things are discovered when we go off. Most of the time, I feel like a composition whose introductory paragraph starts at the conclusion:)) Years of experience in rationalization I guess:))

As for C-PTSD, we can talk about it whenever you feel like it. I don't feel that I suffer from it exactly but certain elements seem very familiar.

And I'm a big fan of blurting out my truth nowadays  so those who need to bugger off are not going anywhere before I say, "Jolly, mate:))

I'd also like to exchange opinions on FB dysfunction as that's a recent theme in my life:))

Stay strong,

TW

[fromheeltoheal]

Most of the time, I feel like a composition whose introductory paragraph starts at the conclusion:)) Years of experience in rationalization I guess:))

That is so damn descriptive TW, and funny in a way too, seems you see it that way?

As for C-PTSD, we can talk about it whenever you feel like it. I don't feel that I suffer from it exactly but certain elements seem very familiar.

The big pieces for me are we don't necessarily have to be traumatized in childhood, it can happen in adulthood too, for me it was mostly weak boundaries and not creating the courage I needed in several kinds of situations, and the resentment I carried with me as a result, along with getting my heart broken a few times when I was young, we think we've transcended these things, or did we just find an effective way to gloss over them?

I'll be talking about it for a while, I'm onto something and it's all new, but so far:

1. A very effective skill is to acknowledge that we're having an emotional flashback when we're in a situation that is triggering.  That keeps the inner critic from labeling us as 'defective' or some such sht, and it also makes things OK in general, we're just having that flashback, it's not the end of the world and it will pass.

2. And the other piece I've been doing is grieving, the antidote to all of it.  Grieving includes angering, which I'd gotten very good at on my own, verbal ventilating, which I do here at times and also in a journal and loud in my living room, feeling, going way down into how a past experience made me feel, and feeling through it instead of shy away from the negative emotion, and crying, which I don't do easily, the last time I cried was when my dogs died, they were old, but still, very painful; maybe there's room for growth, something to uncork there, doesn't feel like it but we'll see.

So that's where I'm at.  When we avoid negative emotions we numb the good ones too, so we can feel emotionally dead, surviving but not really living.  Been there, done that, done with that.

And I'm a big fan of blurting out my truth nowadays  so those who need to bugger off are not going anywhere before I say, "Jolly, mate:))

  Blimey, I think you're onto something!

I'd also like to exchange opinions on FB dysfunction as that's a recent theme in my life:))

My opinion of the mighty Book of Face is lengthy and I need to do it later, but I won't forget.  BTW, FB headquarters is not far from me and my gardener takes care of Zuckerberg's garden too; those folks got some cash, must be something to it, yes?  Take care of you! 

[thisworld]

Hi again

That is so damn descriptive TW, and funny in a way too, seems you see it that way?

Sure I do. I tell this to people, too. Sometimes I start expressing my troubles "First, there was the nebula, you know" I'm kind of relaxed about it. It's not always a negative thing either. I'm capable of Janussian thinking and finding something worthy in seemingly contradictory stuff, which slows me a bit in reaching the conclusion paragraph:)) Journaling helps a lot. I think sometimes I do access myself better (reach the conclusion paragraph faster:)) if I just focus on my emotion. Because of my upbringing (also because of my education I think) my mind used to go to justification immediately. Is my opinion "justified", and worse, is my feeling "justified"? I think invalidation does this. The dominant question is "why." Sometimes I simply think "what do I want?" It's super relieving done at the right time.

As for C-PTSD, we can talk about it whenever you feel like it. I don't feel that I suffer from it exactly but certain elements seem very familiar.

A very effective skill is to acknowledge that we're having an emotional flashback when we're in a situation that is triggering.  That keeps the inner critic from labeling us as 'defective' or some such sht, and it also makes things OK in general, we're just having that flashback, it's not the end of the world and it will pass.

This is true! I know this but for some reason I use it only against anxiety - or relate anxiety with this. So you think it's related to other negative emotions, too? And how do you differentiate between things that make you feel awful because they actually make you feel awful and things that are related to an emotional flashback? I can name a couple but am not sure that I could distinguish in everything. Is it the strength of emotion, a feeling of suffocation that comes with it? Can you give me some clues about it?

Yes crying is difficult sometimes. (And I think I should accept that I'll never cry as much as some people around me). But sometimes music helps me access a different part of myself. I actually have a particular song that does it to me, that always brings me closer to grief - and detachment and acceptance as well. It's a simple tune, but there is something in it that just speaks to me in a hidden way. (There it goes, there is no blocked grief in me that can resist this song if I listen to it hidden in a wardrobe after a loud round of sarcasm on my own*)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm1QV-ARLnI

When we avoid negative emotions we numb the good ones too, so we can feel emotionally dead, surviving but not really living. 

This so true, too. I've had relationships where I experienced this toward the end, but I think I'm lucky in the sense that I've managed to rebuild my emotional connection to arts and literature which allow me to experience my emotions. There was a time when I simply lost my motivation to read - and that was difficult in itself as being an avid reader occupies some important space in my personal identity. Another thing for me is to improve my bond with nature - it's a very weak bond I think. I'm very sacred of flower pots:)) Surprisingly, I discovered that certain things I thought were far from my personality offer strange outlets as well, tandem skydiving being one - I don't get a bombastic rush, I get an incredible feeling of serenity. What are the things in your life that allow you to experience your emotions when relationships do not offer much in that regard?

Best,

[fromheeltoheal]

As for C-PTSD, we can talk about it whenever you feel like it. I don't feel that I suffer from it exactly but certain elements seem very familiar.

A very effective skill is to acknowledge that we're having an emotional flashback when we're in a situation that is triggering.  That keeps the inner critic from labeling us as 'defective' or some such sht, and it also makes things OK in general, we're just having that flashback, it's not the end of the world and it will pass.

This is true! I know this but for some reason I use it only against anxiety - or relate anxiety with this. So you think it's related to other negative emotions, too? And how do you differentiate between things that make you feel awful because they actually make you feel awful and things that are related to an emotional flashback? I can name a couple but am not sure that I could distinguish in everything. Is it the strength of emotion, a feeling of suffocation that comes with it? Can you give me some clues about it?

Oh yes, shame and guilt mostly, and anxiety too.  An example is I'm very successful in my career and folks come at me often, little weasels who want to attack my success, because they aren't, so they give me sht and if it happens on a bad day I can feel guilty for my success.  What the heck?  Flashback to my youth, realize it's a flashback, which is soothing, and realize it's envy or whatever that is motivating dickhead to mouth off.  If I care about the person and my relationship with them I can turn it around, the first step being acknowledge the flashback, and if they don't matter to me they are removed from my life.  Blurt mode.

Another one is my mother is tough, never sick, never took naps when we were young, never anything but go-fast and go-strong, and she used to shame me for getting sick as a kid in a kind of clandestine way, but shamed nonetheless, which I now realize was projection, she must have been shamed when young, but as a kid it hurt, especially when you're sick.  So I got very good at covering up any kind of illness or down day, and if someone called me on my apparent lack of health in the moment, flashback, guilt, and then shame.  BTW, guilt says I did something bad, shame says I am bad, much more noxious.  It works for my mother though, she's 85 and will never tell you she's in anything but perfect health, a combination of denial and positive thinking I suppose, but it's working, she is healthy, but that won't last as we know, and I wonder how she'll deal with it.  I'll try my best to not shame her.  Maybe.

Yes crying is difficult sometimes. (And I think I should accept that I'll never cry as much as some people around me). But sometimes music helps me access a different part of myself. I actually have a particular song that does it to me, that always brings me closer to grief - and detachment and acceptance as well. It's a simple tune, but there is something in it that just speaks to me in a hidden way. (There it goes, there is no blocked grief in me that can resist this song if I listen to it hidden in a wardrobe after a loud round of sarcasm on my own*)

Cool tune, I've always liked it, it doesn't take me where it takes you but I can see how it could.  Some music gets to me deep, not really sad necessarily but just deep, and it feels good to just feel emotion deeply.  Men can't really do that, well maybe Jackson Browne, but lots of women take me there; here's one I love, it evokes strong emotion for me:

https://youtu.be/f0a4dRI1JMM

When we avoid negative emotions we numb the good ones too, so we can feel emotionally dead, surviving but not really living.  

What are the things in your life that allow you to experience your emotions when relationships do not offer much in that regard?

Deserted beaches, road trips through wide open spaces with the right tunes, movies, playing piano (emotion transmitted through fingers), dogs, definitely dogs, always dogs, grand vistas like Yosemite Valley and Lake Tahoe, long steady rain, a cup of coffee at sunrise... .

Oh you know, everything really, except people, working on that... .

Whew!  Good convo TW, back into my CPTSD book for the evening, more shall be revealed.  Take care of you!

[disillusionedandsore]

I'm not sure it's possible to avoid being hurt,  obviously being able to distinguish between people who can only hurt because they are self absorbed, lack empathy,  play games with people's emotions are  narcissistic etc and those who can empathise,  self reflect,  apologise, make amends and modify their behaviour to nurture a relationship is very important but it is a given that someone somewhere will activate or rub up against our sore places,  even people we don't necessary have intimacy with. Thinking about feelings is not the same as sinking into feeling feelings,  talking about feelings can even get in the way of feeling them and writing about feelings also can serve as a distracting activity away from the feeling processing and it's essential message. Yes discussion and support and validation and empathy are important but the healing in my experience lies in bodily surrender to the emotions,  anger,  devastation,  fear,  guilt,  shame,  abandonment,  rejection,  enthusiasm,  joy whatever.  I can only truly do this by putting down the pen,  turning away  from the computer,  closing the book,  and sitting with my feelings (no distractions)  even temporarily to acknowledge and welcome them. A lot of people I observe run from or are unwilling to have this level of intimacy with themselves and then expect to get it or experience it with others... .

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey DAS-

I'm not sure it's possible to avoid being hurt,  obviously being able to distinguish between people who can only hurt because they are self absorbed, lack empathy,  play games with people's emotions are  narcissistic etc and those who can empathise,  self reflect,  apologise, make amends and modify their behaviour to nurture a relationship is very important but it is a given that someone somewhere will activate or rub up against our sore places, 

Yes, and that can be the gift of the relationship.  Borderlines need to attach to someone to "survive", so a borderline gets extremely good at getting emotional hooks in someone, good at noticing where those hooks are best placed, not maliciously mind you, just survival tools practiced by someone who fears abandonment constantly while being convinced it will happen, so sink them hooks deep while you can.  But the gift is borderlines are great for shining a spotlight on those unresolved issues from our past, ones we might have been denying or weren't aware were there, which is perfect denial, and then motivated by the pain of the demise of the relationship we can address them, finally, maybe for the first time.

And then as we dig into our past, our values, our beliefs, our triggers, you're absolutely right, grieving things is the way beyond them, by going through, no sneaking around them or bouncing off them, going through them to the light on the other side. 

I heard someone talking about enlightenment the other day, where to become "enlightened" is to grow up through the sht, to the light, like a flower or plant, there's no going around or under, there's only through and up, and not only that, the sht is fertilizer for that growth.

I agree totally with the active feeling you describe.  I mentioned earlier in this thread that the way out, the way up, is to grieve, the methods include angering, which is something I have no problem with lately, verbal ventilating, giving voice to emotions either verbally or in writing, crying, and feeling, four methods total, all of which can work, or a combo of them.  You mention feeling works for you, me too, although sometimes I need to reduce the energy, take the edge off, with some healthy yelling, btching and moaning first, then I can settle into that passive feeling, which is a release.  It's a sea change for us, if we were programmed, and continue to be programmed, as I was at least, to downplay negative emotions and emphasize positive ones, and suppressing the negative ones has the effect of suppressing the positive ones too, so we're in the deadened numb place of surviving but not really living, and certainly not thriving. 

So feel all the way, I'm with you DAS, and then, we're bound to learn something along the way, and yes relationships are a risk, we may get hurt, but if we resolve old stuff there won't be anywhere for a Cluster B to set hooks, and we can make better choices as to whom we can be emotionally vulnerable and take that risk with to begin with.  Take care of you!

[thisworld]

I'm not sure it's possible to avoid being hurt,  obviously being able to distinguish between people who can only hurt because they are self absorbed, lack empathy,  play games with people's emotions are  narcissistic etc and those who can empathise,  self reflect,  apologise, make amends and modify their behaviour to nurture a relationship is very important but it is a given that someone somewhere will activate or rub up against our sore places,  even people we don't necessary have intimacy with. Thinking about feelings is not the same as sinking into feeling feelings,  talking about feelings can even get in the way of feeling them and writing about feelings also can serve as a distracting activity away from the feeling processing and it's essential message. Yes discussion and support and validation and empathy are important but the healing in my experience lies in bodily surrender to the emotions,  anger,  devastation,  fear,  guilt,  shame,  abandonment,  rejection,  enthusiasm,  joy whatever.  I can only truly do this by putting down the pen,  turning away  from the computer,  closing the book,  and sitting with my feelings (no distractions)  even temporarily to acknowledge and welcome them. A lot of people I observe run from or are unwilling to have this level of intimacy with themselves and then expect to get it or experience it with others... .

What you say is very true DAS, hurt is as valid a human experience as happiness. In my case, I have chosen hurtful relationships for wrong reasons though, relationships that were bound to hurt me. For the future, when I think about my risk-taking behaviour, I like thinking in terms of "the right to protect myself from future trauma." Building boundaries around that is something that makes me comfortable. And you are right in the sense that people are not taught to be alone and mindful with and in themselves.

FHTH,

Can you share the name of the C-PTSD book you were saying? I feel that I may benefit from it.

Have a nice day,

[fromheeltoheal]

FHTH,

Can you share the name of the C-PTSD book you were saying? I feel that I may benefit from it.

Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker

Lovin' it so far... .

Have a nice day,

And you too!

[thisworld]

Thank you

[Grey Kitty]

It sounds like you have made some wonderful progress!

First, you seek out ways to recreate your childhood wound with new people, not even knowing you are doing it.

Then you reach a point where you intellectually see that these people are harmful to you, but still feel the attraction/compulsion.

Now you say you actually feel repulsion for those characteristics. That is more progress!

I would suggest that a mild repulsion / disinterest is the healthiest version of it. A gentle "I'm not interested in this person's problems and drama." feeling as opposed to disgust or fear of it.

Are you finding yourself connecting to and attracted to healthier people as friends as well?

[thisworld]

Thank you Grey Kitty, I'm a work in progress:)) It's taking decades but I'm getting there:))

And yes, you are very right indeed. Mild repulsion, disinterest. My individual goal for healing is indifference so these relate to that, too.  That's how I usually - but not always- feel if I'm not involved in these repulsive situations. I say a heartfelt "argh" and am OK:)) I feel repulsed when I find these situations too close to myself in my life and am staying in a relationship for some reason. I have high-risk behaviour in the initial stages of attraction and if I watch my boundaries there - no more rationalization for me, and I'll ask more questions- I believe I'll be OK. Normally (I have a "normally" would you believe it:)) I don't keep myself in situations that I dislike too long so I don't get much repulsed. In this last relationship though, everything was so tumultous that problems came from everywhere at unexpected speed and I lost myself in the chaos. Very helpful comment, thank you.

Thank you Grey Kitty, I'm a work in progress:)) It's taking decades but I'm getting there:))

And yes, you are very right indeed. Mild repulsion, disinterest. My individual goal for healing is indifference so these relate to that, too.  That's how I usually - but not always- feel if I'm not involved in these repulsive situations. I say a heartfelt "argh" and am OK:)) I feel repulsed when I find these situations too close to myself in my life and am staying in a relationship for some reason. I have high-risk behaviour in the initial stages of attraction and if I watch my boundaries there - no more rationalization for me, and I'll ask more questions- I believe I'll be OK. Normally (I have a "normally" would you believe it:)) I don't keep myself in situations that I dislike too long so I don't get much repulsed. In this last relationship though, everything was so tumultous that problems came from everywhere at unexpected speed and I lost myself in the chaos. Very helpful comment, thank you.

As for friends, I have different groups of friends. Some of them slightly older single female friends from academia and related professional circles. In years, we have developed this very nice communication where we discuss personal issues, drink together, have fun together. There is a nice distance and a nice closeness. Though they are not "besties" I think these are pleasant and healthy friendships.

My closest girlfriends are more troubled women - like myself I suppose or maybe this side of them is more open to me. Our common point is we had our own share of emotionally difficult childhoods but came out of it as people who are considerate of others. There is a sensitivity common in this group: We learnt in our parental homes how we don't want to be treated and how we don't want to treat other people. A common denominator is difficult mothers.

And then I have some downright unhealthy friendships even though most have been eliminated from my life. I don't know who I am attracted to but I know for sure that I'm not getting attracted to unhealthy friendships. I have had the chance to experience this and feel good.   

[Grey Kitty]

Yes, it always is a work in progress

As you mention good friends and unhealthy friends, I found an article with some good perspective on what the unhealthy friendships look like... .and what to do with the healthy ones. Fun reading, and perhaps something that will inspire action too.

www.waitbutwhy.com/2014/12/10-types-odd-friendships-youre-probably-part.html

[thisworld]

Thank you Grey Kitty, this was a great read and one of the most humorous things I've read in a while:))