Bordeline Checklist: Was she/he or wasn't she/he?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I allowed myself to lose my very good job because I was constantly running around doing things for her, racing to rescue her

she never respected or cared about my job

i put up no boundaries fearing her rages

she refuses to acknowledge her role in my lost job

mr magnet, this advice isnt offered to pick on you, and its very much with an understanding of what youre going through, what you have been through. its also offered with the assumption that you want to better understand it all. we are trying to guide you through that toward healing. we all move at our own pace. in the mean time, its best to avoid generalizations. youre not expected to arrive here and start listing the things you did "wrong" and its less about "wrong" and more about a balanced understanding anyway, but sometimes it can feel like fingers being pointed at us. i get that.

right now, your view is this:

A monster is a monster.

is that really how you have always felt about this person? youre hurting. its understandable. look, i called my ex a monster to her face on many occasions and im not proud of it. if i really felt that way i had to, at some point, ask myself what the hell i was doing anywhere near her in the first place. truth is i didnt feel that way, and if you consider that your ex is a human with good qualities like everyone else, and that you felt that way at one time (you dont have to over focus on it) it will help you, in time, in your grieving process.

[once removed]

I allowed myself to lose my very good job because I was constantly running around doing things for her, racing to rescue her

she never respected or cared about my job

i put up no boundaries fearing her rages

she refuses to acknowledge her role in my lost job

mr magnet, this advice isnt offered to pick on you, and its very much with an understanding of what youre going through, what you have been through. its also offered with the assumption that you want to better understand it all. we are trying to guide you through that toward healing. we all move at our own pace. in the mean time, its best to avoid generalizations. youre not expected to arrive here and start listing the things you did "wrong" and its less about "wrong" and more about a balanced understanding anyway, but sometimes it can feel like fingers being pointed at us. i get that.

right now, your view is this:

A monster is a monster.

is that really how you have always felt about this person? youre hurting. its understandable. look, i called my ex a monster to her face on many occasions and im not proud of it. if i really felt that way i had to, at some point, ask myself what the hell i was doing anywhere near her in the first place. truth is i didnt feel that way, and if you consider that your ex is a human with good qualities like everyone else, and that you felt that way at one time (you dont have to over focus on it) it will help you, in time, in your grieving process.

[Mr. Magnet]

But what if those good qualities are illusory?

Inauthentic?

Manipulative

And if my love was more like addiction to pain then what was really there?

It was a sham

[fromheeltoheal]

But what if those good qualities are illusory?

Inauthentic?

Manipulative

And if my love was more like addiction to pain then what was really there?

It was a sham

Two different things, right?  She is who she is, but there's a lot of value in digging into your possible misinterpretation of addiction to pain as love.  Why do you think you did that?

[once removed]

But what if those good qualities are illusory?

Inauthentic?

Manipulative

And if my love was more like addiction to pain then what was really there?

It was a sham

i understand the feeling. give these thoughts some time. as we work through the grief the big picture becomes clearer. you dont have to decide what was "real" and what wasnt today.

you raise a good point though, and its complicated. as you may know, people with BPD have an unstable sense of self. not all of the positive things we loved about our exes were things that were a part of their core, in the sense of who they are. then again, neither are all the negative things.

when you look at the diagnostic criteria for BPD (this is not a professional opinion) it reads to me, a set of primitive, unhealthy coping mechanisms that are pervasive and consistent over time, and have a major effect on interpersonal relationships. theyre coping mechanisms that arent unique to BPD, except in that consistent, pervasive sense, and the extent to which they are ingrained personality traits.

youll never hear me tell you that people with BPD are incapable of being manipulative, we all are. we arent all aware of it when we are doing it. and at the heart of manipulation is a primitive way of surviving. by the very nature of BPD psychopathology, attachment is survival. feelings about that attachment are felt with a great deal of intensity. sustaining them is another matter. in our relationships, many promises were made. many deeply close, vulnerable moments were had and shared. many loving things were said. you were there, they all happened, and are therefore very real. ever have a girlfriend you told something like that shes the most beautiful girl in the world? still believe that? probably not. but you probably did at the time.

i can only speak for me. neither my ex or i had what i would consider a healthy, adult, sustainable love for each other. we did both love each other in the best way we could, as much as we could. for neither of us was it sustainable. we were each manipulative. we were each inauthentic. in different ways and in not so different ways. i wonder if id ever have seen my own emotional unavailability, and limited, misguided sense of love, if not for my relationship. not that i was incapable of a stable relationship. but that my capacity for the kind of loving relationship i truly want has greatly expanded.

i did not come to any of those conclusions over night. i spent most of the first year of my recovery trying to hate my ex because it felt better than the alternative. not just that, but i literally felt that feeling anything but contempt was somehow wrong, or that there was something wrong with me and my grieving process. as i write this im coming up on five years out. my ex is not someone i would ever want in my life. shes not someone whos praises i could sit here and sing. thats okay. at one time i wanted to be her boyfriend, and at one time i wanted to marry her. just because i feel differently now doesnt mean i didnt sincerely feel that way at the time.

none of this is easy. give it time, mr magnet, and allow yourself to grieve. we are here to support you as you do.

[Mr. Magnet]

I get what you are saying

I don't think I'm a victim

I just think it doesn't matter if I were emotionally healthy as opposed to codependent

First I would have run

Second even if I stayed, it would still be a sh#t storm

It's all on me for trying to find love through a borderline

I know what that says about me and my core shame

I'll get through this and plan on finding a healthy partner

She will never find anything but complete dysfunction

[Mr. Magnet]

Yes, being emotionally attached to someone with a mental illness can be painful and confusing Magnet, and it can be a relief to come somewhere like this and have "Aha!" moments; it wasn't us, or at least all us, and plenty of other folks have experienced it too, relieving yes?

And while getting clear on the behaviors of borderlines is helpful at clearing up the confusion, ultimately to detach we can start shifting the focus to ourselves and how those behaviors affected us.

So how did you ex's behaviors make you feel?

Like garbage.  I allowed myself to lose my very good job because I was constantly running around doing things for her, racing to rescue her from panic attacks or other ailments, dealing with her threats of divorce (hundreds of times over the years)

she comes from a very wealthy family and she never respected or cared about my job

i put up no boundaries fearing her rages

she refuses to acknowledge her role in my lost job and did nothing to emotionally support me during my lay off

That sucks man, been there and it's very painful.  Can you find one positive thing to take from the experience?  For no other reason than some dude on the internet suggested it, as a way to start building a future you're fired up about?  That starts with one step.

A beautiful amazing daughter (who she will probably f**k up royally--sigh)

Nope, doesn't count, you negated it.  Got another?

Well, because of the horrific prenup I signed the divorce was over in 6 weeks.

[once removed]

I get what you are saying

I don't think I'm a victim

I just think it doesn't matter if I were emotionally healthy as opposed to codependent

First I would have run

Second even if I stayed, it would still be a sh#t storm

It's all on me for trying to find love through a borderline

I know what that says about me and my core shame

I'll get through this and plan on finding a healthy partner

She will never find anything but complete dysfunction

emotionally healthy people dont simply "run". they cope and they manage. they do, of course, recognize when something is becoming unhealthy.

being a healthier partner will lend itself to finding a healthy partner

[Mr. Magnet]

I get what you are saying

I don't think I'm a victim

I just think it doesn't matter if I were emotionally healthy as opposed to codependent

First I would have run

Second even if I stayed, it would still be a sh#t storm

It's all on me for trying to find love through a borderline

I know what that says about me and my core shame

I'll get through this and plan on finding a healthy partner

She will never find anything but complete dysfunction

emotionally healthy people dont simply "run". they cope and they manage. they do, of course, recognize when something is becoming unhealthy.

being a healthier partner will lend itself to finding a healthy partner

the paradox that mind effs me is that had I been healthier, the relationship would never have happened.

[cosmonaut]

the paradox that mind effs me is that had I been healthier, the relationship would never have happened.

Let's keep going with that.  What do you think was unhealthy in yourself?  Why do you think you engaged in the relationship?

[fromheeltoheal]

the paradox that mind effs me is that had I been healthier, the relationship would never have happened.

Good move Magnet!  What if everything happens for a reason and it serves us?  What if borderlines come into our lives at the right time because there are lessons it's time to learn, and when the student if ready the teacher appears?  Teachers come in unique packaging sometimes and the lessons can be difficult, but now that your focus has shifted you can get to work building the life of your dreams, using the newfound wisdom with a clear idea what you need to work on.  And one day you may look back at the relationship and consider it a gift, because look how far you've gone and how much you've grown!  Take care of you!

[Mr. Magnet]

the paradox that mind effs me is that had I been healthier, the relationship would never have happened.

Let's keep going with that.  What do you think was unhealthy in yourself?  Why do you think you engaged in the relationship?

I was raised by an emotionally unavailable mom and had a dad who criticized and yelled a lot (eggshells).

I mostly think it's about my mom though. 

[Mr. Magnet]

This is so on point for my ex it frightens me

www.boomeranglove.com/asp/redflags-all.asp

[bdyw8]

That list is pretty interesting --- I laughed when I read that some will become psychotherapists... .


My exBPD was doing a masters degree part time to become a psychologist... .hahahahahahaha

[MapleBob]

I, too, took some comfort from Shari's writings in the initial crazy-making stages of my breakup. But once_removed is totally correct: she doesn't meet clinical standard in her work, and she is also very negative, hopeless, and reductive in her critique of pwBPD. It's a good starting place to help you get pissed off enough to stay away (if that's your intention), but there is more balanced and constructive literature out there if you want to learn to live with or improve a relationship with a pwBPD.

[Mr. Magnet]

I, too, took some comfort from Shari's writings in the initial crazy-making stages of my breakup. But once_removed is totally correct: she doesn't meet clinical standard in her work, and she is also very negative, hopeless, and reductive in her critique of pwBPD. It's a good starting place to help you get pissed off enough to stay away (if that's your intention), but there is more balanced and constructive literature out there if you want to learn to live with or improve a relationship with a pwBPD.

thoughts on link 2 posts above?

[MapleBob]

I, too, took some comfort from Shari's writings in the initial crazy-making stages of my breakup. But once_removed is totally correct: she doesn't meet clinical standard in her work, and she is also very negative, hopeless, and reductive in her critique of pwBPD. It's a good starting place to help you get pissed off enough to stay away (if that's your intention), but there is more balanced and constructive literature out there if you want to learn to live with or improve a relationship with a pwBPD.

thoughts on link 2 posts above?

When I take into account that the header on that list clearly states "BEHAVIORS THAT MAY INDICATE BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER" (emphasis mine), I agree with much of it. And those are all definitely red flags.

But overall I think it's more constructive to look at your ex as an individual and not as part of some monolithic group. All of the BPD traits are difficult to deal with as a partner, regardless of diagnosis, or how many traits any given person might display or not display. You know which ones you experienced, and now maybe you have a name for a possible disorder and a reason around which to analyze your experience.

It sounds like you're pre-disposed (like me!) to being drawn to disordered individuals, because of your family of origin issues. That's your part in this, and the part you can control. It's good to look at both sides.

[Mr. Magnet]

I, too, took some comfort from Shari's writings in the initial crazy-making stages of my breakup. But once_removed is totally correct: she doesn't meet clinical standard in her work, and she is also very negative, hopeless, and reductive in her critique of pwBPD. It's a good starting place to help you get pissed off enough to stay away (if that's your intention), but there is more balanced and constructive literature out there if you want to learn to live with or improve a relationship with a pwBPD.

thoughts on link 2 posts above?

When I take into account that the header on that list clearly states "BEHAVIORS THAT MAY INDICATE BORDERLINE PERSONALITY DISORDER" (emphasis mine), I agree with much of it. And those are all definitely red flags.

But overall I think it's more constructive to look at your ex as an individual and not as part of some monolithic group. All of the BPD traits are difficult to deal with as a partner, regardless of diagnosis, or how many traits any given person might display or not display. You know which ones you experienced, and now maybe you have a name for a possible disorder and a reason around which to analyze your experience.

It sounds like you're pre-disposed (like me!) to being drawn to disordered individuals, because of your family of origin issues. That's your part in this, and the part you can control. It's good to look at both sides.

She has been officially diagnosed.  She is the worst type IMO--rage.  She fits at least 75% of that list.  I was willing to take the pain because I wanted to be there to buffer for my kid.  As crazy as this sounds one argument I made to her was isn't it in the kid's best interests to have a borderline relationship with his dad as opposed to the next victim(s) who walk(s) through the door?

[MapleBob]

She has been officially diagnosed.  She is the worst type IMO--rage.  She fits at least 75% of that list.  I was willing to take the pain because I wanted to be there to buffer for my kid.  As crazy as this sounds one argument I made to her was isn't it in the kid's best interests to have a borderline relationship with his dad as opposed to the next victim(s) who walk(s) through the door?

I would tend to agree with you there!

[blackbirdsong]

She has been officially diagnosed.  She is the worst type IMO--rage.  She fits at least 75% of that list.  I was willing to take the pain because I wanted to be there to buffer for my kid.  As crazy as this sounds one argument I made to her was isn't it in the kid's best interests to have a borderline relationship with his dad as opposed to the next victim(s) who walk(s) through the door?

I would tend to agree with you there!

I think that in kid's best interest is to have at least one 'healthy' parent as a rolemodel. In case where nonBPD stays with BPD that is not in therapy, it is hard to stay 'healthy'. So, I think kid can actualy benefit from divorce, as much as this sounds 'wrong' at first impression. But that is just my opinion.

[Mr. Magnet]

She has been officially diagnosed.  She is the worst type IMO--rage.  She fits at least 75% of that list.  I was willing to take the pain because I wanted to be there to buffer for my kid.  As crazy as this sounds one argument I made to her was isn't it in the kid's best interests to have a borderline relationship with his dad as opposed to the next victim(s) who walk(s) through the door?

I would tend to agree with you there!

I think that in kid's best interest is to have at least one 'healthy' parent as a rolemodel. In case where nonBPD stays with BPD that is not in therapy, it is hard to stay 'healthy'. So, I think kid can actualy benefit from divorce, as much as this sounds 'wrong' at first impression. But that is just my opinion.

she was in therapy and group dbt therapy

she was still an a-hole