Do you call them out on their lies or not?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Mine told me a week ago he put a check in the mail to me... .it has never come. Since I asked him to pay me through the bank instead, I told him when the check comes I will tear it up. In the meantime, he tells me that it would take 24 hours for him to be able to make the online payment. Then at 1am (after his paycheck went into his account) he texts me and says "it worked early, I was able to pay you"... .and proceeds to send me a "goodnight" and a bunch of kiss faces! It will still be 3 business days until I get the money, but still no check in the mail. I believe he never sent it as someone else sent me a check on Saturday and it came Monday. I believe he needed the money until his next paycheck and didn't want to tell me. His payment to me is not late, so my question is... .do I even bother to tell him his check never came? He and I both know he didn't send it. He won't respond if I do and he knows I know when I don't get it. Don't know what to do here... .any thoughts?

[Herodias]

Mine told me a week ago he put a check in the mail to me... .it has never come. Since I asked him to pay me through the bank instead, I told him when the check comes I will tear it up. In the meantime, he tells me that it would take 24 hours for him to be able to make the online payment. Then at 1am (after his paycheck went into his account) he texts me and says "it worked early, I was able to pay you"... .and proceeds to send me a "goodnight" and a bunch of kiss faces! It will still be 3 business days until I get the money, but still no check in the mail. I believe he never sent it as someone else sent me a check on Saturday and it came Monday. I believe he needed the money until his next paycheck and didn't want to tell me. His payment to me is not late, so my question is... .do I even bother to tell him his check never came? He and I both know he didn't send it. He won't respond if I do and he knows I know when I don't get it. Don't know what to do here... .any thoughts?

[JohnLove]

Deceit is a major component of BPD. Yours seems like it is a somewhat minor issue. It may be BIG for you. I would just be grateful if he pays you on time... .or at all. I don't believe this is something you can "fix". In relationships I believe honesty is the best policy... .not so sure about BPD relationships though.  

You may need to make a minor adjustment to your radical acceptance.  

I also have a story to share. I confronted my somewhat exBPDgf this morning on a lie. We shared some very intimate moments last night and this morning after not seeing each other for 2 weeks after attending her cousins "wedding" (it was disgusting   and me being set upon by the groom and being assaulted that night when everyone was heavily intoxicated (except me).

On her return she purchased an expensive watch and had it engraved. She told me she was "sorry" for what happened. This didn't cut it for me.

She told me she had purchased the watch before the wedding. I know she purchased it after... .as some sort of remorse or apology. It was a Valentines Day gift. I recieved it last Monday. Her reasoning. We weren't together anymore. She didn't want it.

The scene this morning after she was about to leave after we had a heart to heart about things and shared tears. She so desperately wanted the relationship. So she was in a VERY receptive mood.

She did not want to admit to the lie or the deception. Even the deception was a deception if you can follow. I told her as she was walking out the door "so, that's it?"... .she stopped in her tracks. The night before she had asked for forgiveness and I told her if she wanted forgiveness then I needed truth.

It was SO hard for her to comply. There was no external dysregulation but she was struggling severely internally. She admitted the lie under extreme duress of more potential NC. I had already asked for the truth every day for over a week. When confronted in person it still took TIME.

I hope it might be a new beginning. Only time will tell. You can't just wish a severe mental illness away. You can't rationalise some things.

Although every sufferer is different and unique as an individual there are many common criteria for the disorder. I hope this helps with your perspective.

[Suzn]

"it worked early, I was able to pay you"... .and proceeds to send me a "goodnight" and a bunch of kiss faces.

do I even bother to tell him his check never came? He won't respond if I do.

What's your goal here?

[SummerStorm]

My BPD friend lies about everything, mostly lies by omission. 

Currently, she is seeing another guy.  They spent Tuesday night/Wednesday morning together and last night together.  But anyway, she texted me about eating dinner on Tuesday night but said nothing about the fact that she was on a date.  She's apparently been posting pics of them together on Facebook and then had a Snapchat story about their whole day yesterday.  But interestingly enough, he's nowhere to be seen on Instagram, which is linked to her Tinder account, which is still active. 

She tends to always have an excuse for her lies, some reason for why she just felt like she had to lie.  So, I've stopped calling her out on them. 

Mine knows very well when she's lying, though I suppose some pwBPD don't really know/believe their own lies. 

[Teereese]

 

I have called my stbxh out on his lies. My goal was to make him aware that I knew he was lying.

It never mattered. His lies are his reality. He would convince himself and truly believe them.

In a case like yours with the check, my stbxh would know he never sent it. He would never admit it though. He would hold onto the false thought that he sent it until it became his truth. He would offer a plethora of reasons why it didn't show up and then begin to blame me ... .I either received it and lost it, ripped it up, hid it ... .on and on.

This type of behavior drove me crazy. I couldn't live in that type of world any longer.

[cosmonaut]

Often in life we have to pick our battles.  If it is a small amount of money, you might consider letting it go for your own piece of mind.  If it is a more significant amount of money, continual gentle reminders often get the best response rather than angry or threatening which will naturally trigger defensiveness.  Of course, that might still not work and you may have to apply more pressure, but I would recommend that you exhaust the first way before stepping up the pressure.

Edit:  If he just doesn't have the money, he doesn't have the money.  You can't collect what he doesn't have.  If needed, maybe you can work out a payment plan?

[Herodias]

He ended up paying me through the bank and then text me today saying it came out of his account, so he knew I got it- I told him just because it came out of his, doesn't mean it's in mine. I do have a pending deposit that the bank said will be in next week. I tried to explain how they float money. I also said I never received his check- he just ignored me completely. I guess he was all proud of himself that he thought he was right, when he wasn't! These are the kinds of things that would happen and then he would tell me I was just trying to argue with him all the time! It's like he wants me to say- ok, whatever you say is correct- even when it's not! No wonder he could never balance his checkbook! He never wrote anything down, so if he called and the account said he had a certain amount then that's what he thought he had- regardless of any checks he had written that weren't cleared. I'm just arguing with him though... .

[Suzn]

He ended up paying me through the bank and then text me today saying it came out of his account, so he knew I got it-

How could you have responded differently to end this right here?

I tried to explain how they float money. I also said I never received his check.

Why?

I'm just arguing with him though... .

Exactly. We all play a role in our relationships BH and even though you are apart you are in contact with your exh. He, being BPD, likely won't research how to avoid conflict and circular arguments but you can.

COMMUNICATION: How to stop circular arguments

SELF-AWARE: Has the anger gone too far?

[Herodias]

I think I am confused... .we are just supposed to let them go on lying and lying and thinking we believe them? I thought they are like toddlers... .with toddlers, if you do not tell them you know they are not being truthful, they will just continue. Now if I was wrong and he did send the check and it never came... .he would need to know about that as well. Now he is being even more ridiculous telling me he is talking with 2 CPA's and his lawyer. I know he doesn't have either/any of these... .he is getting out of control with the lying to me... .why is this? I think he wants to act like he knows more than me or as much as me. I kind of feel bad for him. I wish he would just trust me and not think I am out to get him. We are in contact because we are still married and trying to work out some details with taxes and closing out a joint bank account that we were transferring alimony payments through. We thought we would be getting divorced soon, but now that has changed. That's why we are still communicating about these things... .It is just that he was never responsible for any of this stuff and sometimes he seems so nieve' about these things... I never really knew if he really didn't understand them or if he was choosing to. No matter what, he wants to act like he does. That's the hard part. I feel bad for him if he doesn't... .it is frustrating to deal with him with financial matters.

[Herodias]

Thank you for the links to the articles... .I am still angry and it is hard to move on with that I understand. I am angry at myself mostly for staying in this so long... .wasting my life taking care of a person I thought truly loved me as well. I am seeing how ill he is the more I am away from him. It's really sad... .

[Suzn]

we are just supposed to let them go on lying and lying and thinking we believe them? I thought they are like toddlers... .with toddlers, if you do not tell them you know they are not being truthful, they will just continue.

A better question is how do you think you can stop someone from lying? You know the truth so why try? He is a grown man doing what he chooses to do. Trying to get him to admit a lie is only hurting you. This is who he is.

I think he wants to act like he knows more than me or as much as me.

Let him think what he will. You know the truth. This statement is just a different version of "he hit me first!"  

Now he is being even more ridiculous telling me he is talking with 2 CPA's and his lawyer. I know he doesn't have either/any of these.

Cross this bridge when or if you come to it. IF this is a lie then you are allowing yourself to get upset over something that isn't even true. Right?

Thank you for the links to the articles... .I am still angry and it is hard to move on with that I understand. I am angry at myself mostly for staying in this so long... .wasting my life taking care of a person I thought truly loved me as well. I am seeing how ill he is the more I am away from him. It's really sad... .

You're welcome.    It is really sad.

He ended up paying me through the bank and then text me today saying it came out of his account, so he knew I got it-

How could you have responded differently to end this right here?

How about a simple thank you? He paid the alimony and that is the goal. Right? No need to go into explaining things to a grown man especially if it's only going to end up upsetting you. If he wants to learn more about how the bank floats money he can take himself down to the bank and ask.

Is feeling like you wasted your time with him your hurt talking? I know you feel bad for him, what about you? How are you coping with this loss?  

Step 2 in The Five stages of Detachment

Stand back and look at your feelings and the situation - what do they tell you about yourself.

SELF-INQUIRY [Stage 2]: Once you've felt your feelings, you'll need to learn to understand them and the loss you are suffering through self-inquiry. To begin the self-inquiry part of the process, bring yourself into contact with your inner witness.

In any process for working with feelings, it's important to find a way to explore your feelings that allows you both to be present with them (engage the emotion) at times and to stand aside from them (be impartial) and to know when each is appropriate. It sometimes helps to take little time to care for the part of you that needs comforting before you start this journey.

Breakdown the loss (the situation) to understand it in a clear and balanced way - your part, your partner's part; what is normal relationship "stuff", what was abnormal; what was malicious, what was weakness, or what was ignorance. It's very important to detach from your emotions for this and look at things in a analytical way (use your inner witness).  

Breakdown your feelings - try to unmask them. Our anger may really be fear. Feelings of disrespect may really be a fragile ego. Start by probing the feelings and the thoughts that drive the desire or grief or hopelessness in your consciousness, perhaps naming it to yourself (e... g., fear, weakness, disappointment, false hope, etc), and gradually come to understand who you are, who you have been. Explore the energy in the feelings. As you go deeper into this energy, its knotty, sticky quality will start to dissolve—for the time being. The best location for these discussions is [L5] Taking Personal Inventory. In addition to discussin with members, there is a clinical depression test, a personality test, and a style test which may prove helpful.

As you work through this process be patient. BPD is a very complex disorder to understand as the thought process is very different than our own. Self analysis is also a very complex process as we have are encombered by our own self image and feelings. Remind yourself that you do have resources to help (bpdfamily, your clinicain, your clergy), recall helpful teachings in your life, or pray for help and guidance.

[Concerns]

My BPDw is a compulsive liar. While many be like toddlers, it has to coupled with the fact that they are adults that have developed mechanisms for dealing with themselves, involved others, and their interactions. Toddlers don't have the life experience to workaround the lie. They are still learning and that's why you instruct them. But adults who use lying as a tool to cope are a different animal. They have had time to practice and hone their misrepresentative style to suit a desired outcome. My wife lies to dismiss herself of accountability. If she succeeds in this, she doesn't have to change her behavior. She can continue the way she has. Her lack of skill in addressing her internal emotional state is outwardly manifested by engaging in behavior she knows is wrong. The lie creates an environment for internal justification. She will think whatever she wants. She will never admit it. For exposing the lie, breaks the facade and breaking the facade is an unthinkable action.

[unicorn2014]

I'm dealing with a very similar problem myself. I think if I was to apply what I learned on the boards its that calling them out on their lies doesn't change anything, but what you can do is change how you respond to them. Since you are detaching from your partner I think that not calling him out on his lies would help facilitate the detachment process.

[circularref]

My BPD friend lies about everything, mostly lies by omission. 

Yes, my exBPD was doing this. I never flat out said she was lying, but when her stories didn't checkout, and I started to dig deeper: the moment I was getting close to the truth, she would randomly say something irrelevant that she knew would piss me of just to divert the discussion.

[Herodias]

I see your points. He's obviously going to keep doing this, but yes- I don't have to react or be the one to call him out on it. He has other people to do that. I know when he's lying most of the time. Not worth arguing with him. Honestly, I would rather be the nice person he walked away from and the mistress be the one he argues with... .

[Suzn]

 

[unicorn2014]

I see your points. He's obviously going to keep doing this, but yes- I don't have to react or be the one to call him out on it. He has other people to do that. I know when he's lying most of the time. Not worth arguing with him. Honestly, I would rather be the nice person he walked away from and the mistress be the one he argues with... .

That is wise, having gotten into an argument with my partner last night that I didn't want to, and having lost a bit of self respect as a result, I can tell you not arguing with a person with BPD traits is a good idea.

(I am the "mistress".)