Feeling like a fraud or fake ?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Do people with BPD have feelings of being a fake or fraud? I thought someone told me that is one of their feelings and one of their biggest fears is being caught in their lies and double life. I know many will lie even when the proof is there. But has anyone ever heard it being their biggest fear to be exposed to their partners? I mean obviously after abandonement and engulfment

[Itstopsnow]

Do people with BPD have feelings of being a fake or fraud? I thought someone told me that is one of their feelings and one of their biggest fears is being caught in their lies and double life. I know many will lie even when the proof is there. But has anyone ever heard it being their biggest fear to be exposed to their partners? I mean obviously after abandonement and engulfment

[apollotech]

Being a fraud or a fake requires an act: a person acting differently than they actually are. BPD is no act; it is a very serious mental disorder that runs their lives, a disorder which they have little to no control over (if unsuccessfully treated).

[Itstopsnow]

I was talking about the act some borderlines put on who engage in double lives . They pretend amd act to be available to each person. They put on different personas for each person. I've read a few articles saying that some people with BPD report feeling like a fake or fraud . I was just trying to understand . Obviously not every person with this disorder will act them same .

[apollotech]

I was talking about the act some borderlines put on who engage in double lives . They pretend amd act to be available to each person. They put on different personas for each person. I've read a few articles saying that some people with BPD report feeling like a fake or fraud . I was just trying to understand . Obviously not every person with this disorder will act them same .

Again, I don't believe that's an act for a Borderline; that's survival. In the example you've given, I believe the Borderline is true to both parties. From a Non's distant perspective it would be seen/labeled, as you put it, a double life. However, I don't believe a Borderline sees it that way. Their attachment compulsion drives what you're describing; that's not faked nor fraudulent to the Borderline. (See the difference?) If you're going to understand their behaviors/actions, you're going to have to see their behaviors/actions from their perspective, a disordered perspective.

[thisworld]

Do people with BPD have feelings of being a fake or fraud? I thought someone told me that is one of their feelings and one of their biggest fears is being caught in their lies and double life. I know many will lie even when the proof is there. But has anyone ever heard it being their biggest fear to be exposed to their partners? I mean obviously after abandonement and engulfment

I think this is a rather complex question. IMHO, the answer to this question is yes, they do but for two different reasons (and not necessarily after abandonment and engulment). And one of these reasons has nothing to do with being a fake or a fraud at all.

I have read that they have this feeling of being a fake or a fraud. My ex BPD and I used to talk about this openly and I was the one who brought it up in a conversation. As the child of a NPD, I used to have this, too, when I was younger. For me, it was related with low self-worth and with the inner anxiety this brought - as I understood later. My ex BPD fully agreed (and very genuinely and sadly) - one of our rare genuine moments. It's a strange feeling. I was a high achiever and was a very capable person in certain things, which then became part of my profession. I knew that I was talented, I was exceptionally good at what I was doing but paradoxically, this feeling remained in an irrational way and it was pretty strong. I think years of lack of affirmation and validation brought this. It was also because my mother was an invalidating person, I had learnt to hide myself, the goofy vulnerable person I was behind a different air.  It went away as I matured (but first got cracked when I felt safe in therapy and dropped it tears). My ex BPD boyfriend says he had the same thing and I believe him. Some of our childhood experiences with our parents are very similar - his being more extreme with an alcoholic though. In BPD, it is probably also related to having a poor sense of self and an emptiness. This feeling occurs when you are not a fake or a fraud.

Are pwBPD afraid of being caught in their lies or a double life as a result of real actions? I wouldn't say that this would be the biggest fear of all pwBPD but I would say yes, if they are consciously leading a double life, they would be afraid of being caught and held accountable as much as the next person. Some  little less, some a little more but the fear would be there. I'm saying this because I don't think a pwBPD is only someone who does things only genuinely at the abandonment-engulfment axis. Yes, they have the emotional maturity of a three-year old but my ex boyfriend is also a 36 year old man with some life experience. I know that deep down he may not be fully understanding why people react to him the way they do, but he also know that certain things he is doing are wrong and deceitful and yes, he is afraid of being caught the way a non would be afraid of being caught - especially if he is remaining in a relationship and is continuing his actions systematically. One simple example: he would be flirting (heavily flirting) online with other women and badmouth me to them (say he is at home and I'm working in the garden.) If I entered the house unexpectedly I could read the joy and see a sort of cruel smile on his face while he was doing it but if he felt that I understood it, he would get very fearful - again the look in his eyes gave it all away. he obviously knew what he was doing was wrong (sometimes, if it was doing it for NPD supply, he would genuinely feel entitled if badmouthing was because of frustrations related with BPD). In later moments of lucidity or when he was trying to recycle me, we talked about these openly (and he was mirroring me and was in his best behaviour). He seemed to know what he did was wrong but I didn't sense any feeling of remorse for having hurt me or doing all that character assassination or emotional cheating. It felt like he was sad that he was caught and lost something. He has strong narcissistic traits though. I also know that he was capable of conscious manipulation like a non, so I believe that would bring some fear.

I know for sure that narcissists are afraid of being caught this way because it rips their façade and exposes them - the worst thing that can happen to a narcissist. But I also know that they don't experience it as a very strong fear that somehow shapes their actions - like they still do what they do. Only when they are discovered, it is bad. I believe this becomes more prominent under certain circumstances when someone thinks they have something to gain by staying with the other person.

Again I think this all depends on the individual and where they are in life. My ex boyfriend went through the same scenario with many women through his life. Maybe when he was younger, he really didn't know why he did what he did and was tormented by it. Nowadays, he is largely dissatisfied and gets genuinely unhappy (for brief moments until a new replacement) that he cannot sustain relationships but he is pretty much used to himself. In addition, I believe he has honed certain skills in the sense that he knows what attracts some women and almost always has a scripted way of approaching people - like a torch carrier for "loyalty" to the extent that I found these "I'm a very loyal lover" talks disturbing. I'm a loyal person and never brought it up like a commodity or a marketing tool in my relationships. I believe my ex got more manipulative in years and lies more consciously - not just pathological lying. Of course, I cannot say this is how it is for all pwBPD.

Sometimes he felt very entitled - "why don't you understand that I'm obsessed with my ex and write her my dreams about our hotel room and include you in these messages as well." (This wasn't what he said but it came down to it. Then he had a really bad rage attack - so I believe deep down there was shame but I don't know what exactly that shame related to in his conscious thoughts. Sometimes he felt less entitled but did things nevertheless. When he is more relaxed and when he feels safer, he switches to a somatic narcissistic mode with me so it's pretty confusing and nerve wrecking actually.   

[steelwork]

Again, I don't believe that's an act for a Borderline; that's survival.

I can't speak generally, of course. My uBPDx talked about living a fraudulent life, but in the sense that it had to be done. So I think this is really true for him. It was always about keeping a relationship going or keeping a job or survival on some level.

One of the last emails I got was a spacy meditation on the "treadmill of life" and how the incline was getting steeper and probably at the end of his life he'd know he'd failed to live up to "a higher truth" but he'll know he did what he had to to survive.

You know... .it was unclear if this was directed at me, but it definitely seemed to represent his view of himself. Living out various white lies and compromises of his deep values, but no choice about it.

[steelwork]

Again, I don't believe that's an act for a Borderline; that's survival.

Additional thought:

My ex is a recovering heroin addict. He had a really serious habit for something like 10 years but was able to accomplish some amazing things during that time. Put himself through college, kept a job and even built up a career in a straight office environment, some of the time while he was living in cars or abandoned buildings. I used to think of his chameleon-like quality and his ability to live false lives as a junkie thing. I still think that's part of the picture. He has the junkie's extraordinary gift for cognitive dissonance.

I think a lot of what makes him different than some of the SOs I've read about here is that he grew up in a highly disciplined environment. He has way more self-control than the average person, prides himself on his ability to endure pain, so living a "noble" lie maybe even feels like a strength to him. He's really good at hiding the reeling emotions. That complicates the idea of being a "fake" or "fraud"... .

[Itstopsnow]

Thank you everyone. So living double lives is what they have to do in order to come with emotions. It is their BPD that causes them to think this is the way to protect themselves from the world and their environment . Interesting. Because I did read a BPD forum mention feeling fake or Like a big fraud. Maybe that's also linked to the unstable sense of self

[cosmonaut]

Do people with BPD have feelings of being a fake or fraud? I thought someone told me that is one of their feelings and one of their biggest fears is being caught in their lies and double life. I know many will lie even when the proof is there. But has anyone ever heard it being their biggest fear to be exposed to their partners? I mean obviously after abandonement and engulfment

That sounds more NPD to me than BPD.  Many pwNPD are indeed terrified of having their false self exposed, although I'm not sure that is a conscious fear.  It's not my understanding that this is the case with pwBPD, although there can be comorbidity of BPD and NPD.  The clinical answer is that pwBPD have a profound sense of emptiness inside.  Rather than a grandiose false self they have a terribly underdeveloped self.  They can engage in mirroring in desperate hopes to please and maintain an attachment, but often the overwhelming feelings are fear of abandonment (failing to please the partner and thus having them leave) and resentment (a feeling of persecution that they are being made to be something false).

[apollotech]

Maybe that's also linked to the unstable sense of self

Herein ^^^^ lies the problem with the fake or fraudulent premise. A pwBPD has an incomplete self; they don't know "who" they are. If one does not know who they are, then they couldn't actively be someone else. They simply wouldn't have the frame of reference to pull that off: I am me, but I choose to be someone else. That is why it is not an act, or them being a fraud, to the pwBPD. Because of this incomplete self, that's why they mirror others; it is them attempting to become whole. This is also the reason for devaluation. When a pwBPD discovers that the person they have emulated, bonded with in order to become whole, is not perfect they will cast that person aside (discard the Non).

Ultimately, a pwBPD is looking to replace or replicate the initial bond that they had with their primary caregiver during childhood; this is when they were whole. (We were all afflicted with BPD at some point in our development!) For the pwBPD, something went terribly wrong during this period, either in the attachment or detachment from that initial caregiver (It depends on how you look at it.). BPD is an attachment disorder; that is the attachment that they are attempting to replace. I suspect that the "I am a fraud" statements referred to above were actually statements of "I have no idea of who I am; therefore, whoever I am, I must be a fake." IMO, those are shame statements (poorly worded by the pwBPD), not admissions of fraud. You can't take what they say at face value.