What am I really holding on to? Is it just the sex?

[bdyw8]

Hey guys, so I've been thinking the last few days of why it is that I'm just unable to let go of the fantasies about getting back with my exBPDgf.  Most of my fantasies revolve around the amazingly passionate sexual connection that we had.  And to be honest, that's about it.   My anger and jealousy comes up when I imagine her sharing that with someone else now.  So is that really all that I'm ruminating over?

To be honest, we didn't have many good memories the last 2 years of our 4 year relationship that weren't focused on sex.  We would argue and argue and fight and do the toxic dance, then get together for a few days of wildly passionate sex.  And within a day of that, be back in the fight again.

The first two years that we were together there were a lot of things I remember loving about her - she was supportive, caring, understanding, kind and loving.  But the last two years, that evaporated completely and I was left begging her at times to return to the the "good ol days" because she had become a very cold and callous person, completely obstinate to my needs and was no longer caring, understanding or loving (except in the bedroom).

So what the hell am I all broken up over?  This person treated me like crap, but the sex was so addicting.  I guess what I'm getting at is perhaps if I can find a way to see that sex is NOT the be-all-end-all in life, I can try to start processing letting go of these thoughts that pollute my mind.  If I see that sex cannot be my SOLE source of pleasure in life (as it certainly was the only good thing the last two years of misery with my exBPD), then I can start to move on.

I've been finding more pleasure the last week in doing active things like rock climbing, running, etc.  Or having a night out with friends and seeing that I can get the social connections I want outside of having sex with another woman - more importantly - desperately trying to find another woman that I can have GREAT sex with and constantly comparing the sex to that of my exBPD, and when it doesn't measure up, being hopelessly depressed and craving the sex with my ex again.

[Lexisdad]

Bdyw8,

I'm 2 months out of a 6 year relationship. She s 13 years younger, amazing body and absolutelly mind blowing sex. Past 5 years have been filled with rage, insecurity and trust issues and dyllusional jeoulosy. Constanst fighting and her raging at least 3 or 4 days a week. I find myself asking the same thing. Besides the mind blowing sex what is it that really kept me in this craziness. I have had my share of women but this one far exceeds any in the sex department. I'm still craving her so badly and were both stuck in the same rut.

[cosmonaut]

Have you looked into sex addiction therapy?  That does sound like there might be pathology at work.

Edit:  There's a good article on the site about when sex is too important.  Maybe you will find it helpful.  It can be just as real as alcoholism or any other addiction.

[Driver]

Bdyw8 & Lexisdad. Same here. Sigh.  

[cosmonaut]

Sounds like this might be an important thread for the group.

[bdyw8]

Thanks for that article cosmonaut.  It was a good read for sure.  In reading that, I would certainly have suspicions that my exBPD has a sex/love addiction.  I wouldn't say that I have a sex addiction, but definitely through my own codependency issues, love addiction is a definite possibility.

My take on it from my experience is that my exBPD mistook sex/physical intimacy for love.  She would often ask me "why can't we have the same connection outside of the bedroom that we do in bed".  I would answer her that I feel just as bonded to you whether we're in bed or not.  This never seemed to compute for her.  She could go from having great sex to being cold and callous again in no time.  There was a definite distinction between the two for her.

I think that is what created that "craving" for me - because she was more warm, affectionate, loving, etc. in bed so I started to crave the sex more and more as that was the only place I would feel love from her.  Yet I would then tolerate the abuse and lack of compassion, feelings, etc. outside of the bedroom.  So I certainly have an issue there too!  It's almost a chicken and egg type situation.

I'm hoping that one day I can find a partner where I will feel safe and loved and supported outside the bedroom and not just in bed.  Then perhaps I wouldn't have that need like I did with my exBPD... .

[Lonely_Astro]

I've been through this question myself, post break up.  Many people that are exes of BPD's will count them as their "all time best" lover.  I know that's subjective, so it depends on what scale I'm using in how I would classify my sex with J.  Was it my #1 in the kink department?  No.  Not because she wouldn't do things, it was just because she seemed more like talk (when she would, that is) than action.  I never pushed those limits with her (if they existed), but she never pushed them either.  By the way, as far as I know, J was never sexually abused in her youth.

Now, if I used "passion" or "looks" as the scale, I would say she was my #1.  There was so much passion that it made sex with her intense.  Was this because she was mirroring my passion/love for her?  Maybe.  Or, maybe it was just that passionate between us (at the time).  It's when I start thinking about this that I start longing for her again.  Not just sexually, but in how close we were inside and outside of the bedroom.  I know two of J's former sex partners.  They are Type A personality types and aren't afraid to flaunt their sexual exploits.  Both 'rated' her as a cold fish.  That, however, wasn't my experience with her... .at all.

Now, with that said, it may be just simple as mirror.  Or, it could be that she found more of a connection with me and therefore enjoyed it more.  I don't know.  Whatever the reason, I get angry when I think about her sharing that passion and intensity with my replacement.  Even now,  I feel like I want to  when I think about it.

We had the most amount of sex we ever had the last few weeks we were together.  It was literally everyday.  Then, she was gone.  That was tough for me (and still is), I was (of course) "all in" emotionally with her and had let go of my fears/doubts about our future (things were looking so well for us).  Plus, I don't take sex lightly, I never have.  It still amazes me that we were on such good terms, inside and outside the bed, the month or so before she left me in limbo. 

Ok.  I have to stop typing now, because I don't want to think about it anymore or I'll find myself trying to reach out to her because of that passion/intensity we shared throughout the year.  Fake or not, it was real to me, and that's what keeps me in the loop I've been in.

[Driver]

For me it was a bit different. We both felt connected in every way, in bed and out of bed. To me she was like a dream come true and she never ceased to tell me that I was the man of her life. Even now, two-three years after the break-up despite all the insults, she apologized and keeps telling me how she's addicted to me and how much she misses me.

When I needed some distance to think things over whether to commit further in the relationship or not, she then freaked out and told me she wanted to die. That was the moment when I couldn't recognize her any more. I thought she was full of life, full of happiness, but when she talked about feeling unhappy and having suicidal thoughts, it was me who freaked out. I still miss her and am forcing myself by all possible means to get over including imposing on both of us NC. It's not easy.

[Lonely_Astro]

For me it was a bit different. We both felt connected in every way, in bed and out of bed. To me she was like a dream come true and she never ceased to tell me that I was the man of her life. Even now, two-three years after the break-up despite all the insults, she apologized and keeps telling me how she's addicted to me and how much she misses me.

When I needed some distance to think things over whether to commit further in the relationship or not, she then freaked out and told me she wanted to die. That was the moment when I couldn't recognize her any more. I thought she was full of life, full of happiness, but when she talked about feeling unhappy and having suicidal thoughts, it was me who freaked out. I still miss her and am forcing myself by all possible means to get over including imposing on both of us NC. It's not easy.

We were the same way, we had a connection outside of the bedroom as well.  At least, it seemed like we did on the surface.  I only saw one time that J ever alluded to suicide with me.  It scared the hell out of me, to be honest.  She had dated another guy for a month in July and we ceased our r/s when I found out.  During our fallout, she made the comment "if I don't have you in my life, what's the point of being alive?" which I immediately confronted her about.  She immediately said, "you and I both know I would never do anything like that, I like myself to much to do something like that."  I'm still not sure if she meant it or if it was an attempt to FOG me (she knows suicidal talk makes me uncomfortable due to family issues).

She needed me in her life, up until she didn't.   

[Driver]

"if I don't have you in my life, what's the point of being alive?" which I immediately confronted her about.  She immediately said, "you and I both know I would never do anything like that, I like myself to much to do something like that."  I'm still not sure if she meant it or if it was an attempt to FOG me (she knows suicidal talk makes me uncomfortable due to family issues).

She needed me in her life, up until she didn't.   

Mine said more or less the same, except that she attempted it, more than once. I couldn't recognize her any more. All because she felt I was distancing myself from her. I thought to myself, if she's unhappy without me, she can't be happy with me either. I didn't like the thought that her life or happiness depended on me. And that's where for the first time I felt I didn't feel the connection any more.

[Lonely_Astro]

Mine said more or less the same, except that she attempted it, more than once. I couldn't recognize her any more. All because she felt I was distancing myself from her. I thought to myself, if she's unhappy without me, she can't be happy with me either. I didn't like the thought that her life or happiness depended on me. And that's where for the first time I felt I didn't feel the connection any more.

J told me in a moment of lucidity, early in our r/s, that she had thought about it many times.  She felt if she wasn't around, people's lives would be easier.  A thought I had recently, to myself, was "if you wouldn't abuse people, maybe you wouldn't think like that".  Sometimes, I think she doesn't see her actions hurt people.  Then again, she told me not long ago that she knew she hurts people, so there's that.

But, to keep on topic, J also tried to sleep with me right as we were ending at the end of December (she asked to come over to my house after work). This was the first time in over a month and I didn't feel this was a come over and talk thing... .she had been talking about past sex with me hours before, as out of context that was for the situation. I didn't allow it, maybe she wanted to as a way to have one last fling with me or she was trying to weaponize sex (keep me hooked).  I'm not sure if I should've or not, but I didn't.  Sometimes I regret not doing it.

[bdyw8]

I like how you said "keep me hooked" because I think that's exactly what it is.  My exBPD knew what all my triggers were and I can see now how she used the pattern of sex to pull me towards her when she wanted me and push me away by denying it when she wanted to hurt me.  She used is as a ploy to play with my emotions and from what I'm hearing from my T, this is incredibly abusive behaviour.

Sounds like it was good you didn't, the more I kept going back, the harder and harder it got to walk away so I can see now that any more contact I have with her (sexual or not) will only make it that much harder for me to let go... .

It's been a month and a half now of NC again with her and this time I'm trying to focus on being alone - if I can take the power away from sex in my life, I think that it will be easier to let go of my exBPD because the sex was the only thing holding us together I think.

[woofbarkmeowbeep]

Yes... sex is the one thing im holding on to, and every day I consider breaking 3 weeks NC to get her to come down and bang me. It is like crack for sure... and it is SO hard to hold out! esp given I've only got one week left in her country and then after that I won't be seeing her again.

[bdyw8]

Yes... sex is the one thing im holding on to, and every day I consider breaking 3 weeks NC to get her to come down and bang me. It is like crack for sure... and it is SO hard to hold out! esp given I've only got one week left in her country and then after that I won't be seeing her again.

I hear you, I'm currently trying to take the power away from sex in my life right now because I don't want to be a slave to "needing" that release.  If I can take the power away from it, I believe I can then remove the hold that my exBPD has over me (even if that hold is just in my mind).

[Driver]

Yes... sex is the one thing im holding on to, and every day I consider breaking 3 weeks NC to get her to come down and bang me. It is like crack for sure... and it is SO hard to hold out! esp given I've only got one week left in her country and then after that I won't be seeing her again.

I hear you, I'm currently trying to take the power away from sex in my life right now because I don't want to be a slave to "needing" that release.  If I can take the power away from it, I believe I can then remove the hold that my exBPD has over me (even if that hold is just in my mind).

I had sworn to myself the same. No one will control my life nor blackmail it. As it has already been said, love is not supposed to be hurtful, but sweet and gentle. So if sex is one the weak point to work on, we should work on it.

In my case I try to do various things. Spirituality can help.

[bdyw8]

In my case I try to do various things. Spirituality can help.

Agreed, trying to find fulfilment elsewhere and from within.  I can feel whole as a person without a partner too.   Not saying I don't want to again be in a r/s but perhaps now is the time for me to have a r/s with myself.  Can be scary as hell when I'm so used to needing someone else to make me feel a sense of worth.

Sex is such a touchy subject because it can make me feel like a man when I can appropriately satisfy a woman.  And I felt pretty confident I was "doing my job" in that department with my exBPD.  Hence why I feel a little empty now without that in my life... .

[steelwork]

Sex is such a touchy subject because it can make me feel like a man when I can appropriately satisfy a woman.  And I felt pretty confident I was "doing my job" in that department with my exBPD.  Hence why I feel a little empty now without that in my life... .

This is deep, really. I get it. (Though reverse genders in my case.)

We had a lot else going on, but yeah... .sex was what really hooked me.

[Driver]

In my case I try to do various things. Spirituality can help.

Agreed, trying to find fulfilment elsewhere and from within.  I can feel whole as a person without a partner too.   Not saying I don't want to again be in a r/s but perhaps now is the time for me to have a r/s with myself.  Can be scary as hell when I'm so used to needing someone else to make me feel a sense of worth.

Sex is such a touchy subject because it can make me feel like a man when I can appropriately satisfy a woman.  And I felt pretty confident I was "doing my job" in that department with my exBPD.  Hence why I feel a little empty now without that in my life... .

I understand, but say to yourself that it's only a question of time. It's not as if you sentenced yourself to celibacy for life. 

[Driver]

Sex is such a touchy subject because it can make me feel like a man when I can appropriately satisfy a woman.  And I felt pretty confident I was "doing my job" in that department with my exBPD.  Hence why I feel a little empty now without that in my life... .

This is deep, really. I get it. (Though reverse genders in my case.)

We had a lot else going on, but yeah... .sex was what really hooked me.

Well, we can arrange that. So, when are you available for a date?   Kidding, kidding 

[steelwork]

Sex is such a touchy subject because it can make me feel like a man when I can appropriately satisfy a woman.  And I felt pretty confident I was "doing my job" in that department with my exBPD.  Hence why I feel a little empty now without that in my life... .

This is deep, really. I get it. (Though reverse genders in my case.)

We had a lot else going on, but yeah... .sex was what really hooked me.

Well, we can arrange that. So, when are you available for a date?   Kidding, kidding 

Ha!

Seriously, tho-- I find it interesting that I seem to be a rare woman among men that felt sexually addicted to their partner to some degree. I got a sense theoughout our r/s that our gender roles were reversed in certain ways that made him (a pretty alpha guy) uncomfortable. Not in the sack per se--more like he felt I had the upper hand. And I hated that.

[Driver]

Sex is such a touchy subject because it can make me feel like a man when I can appropriately satisfy a woman.  And I felt pretty confident I was "doing my job" in that department with my exBPD.  Hence why I feel a little empty now without that in my life... .

This is deep, really. I get it. (Though reverse genders in my case.)

We had a lot else going on, but yeah... .sex was what really hooked me.

Well, we can arrange that. So, when are you available for a date?   Kidding, kidding 

Ha!

Seriously, tho-- I find it interesting that I seem to be a rare woman among men that felt sexually addicted to their partner to some degree. I got a sense theoughout our r/s that our gender roles were reversed in certain ways that made him (a pretty alpha guy) uncomfortable. Not in the sack per se--more like he felt I had the upper hand. And I hated that.

Mmmmm So what was your phone number again? 

[steelwork]

Gee, it's nice to be flirted with--even anonymously and sight unseen. We all need a little of that sometimes.

[Driver]

Gee, it's nice to be flirted with--even anonymously and sight unseen. We all need a little of that sometimes.

  Indeed. We're here to support each other

[bdyw8]

Seriously, tho-- I find it interesting that I seem to be a rare woman among men that felt sexually addicted to their partner to some degree. I got a sense theoughout our r/s that our gender roles were reversed in certain ways that made him (a pretty alpha guy) uncomfortable. Not in the sack per se--more like he felt I had the upper hand. And I hated that.

My exBPD (a woman) was certainly addicted to the sex with me as well, I think the addiction went both ways.  Although she used it as a weapon which was the difference.

If ever she "needed" the physical intimacy with me, I always gave it to her.  When the roles were reversed, however, she would with hold it at times to be punitive.  To the point where I would (not just to do with sex) but ask her to hold me if I was going through a rough time and she wouldn't even touch me.   I had a concussion last year and was really struggling emotionally and she showed me ZERO empathy over the few months it took me to recover.  One day I asked her just to put her hand on me and assure me she was in it with me and we'd get through it together.   She told me to get professional help and that I was crazy to be asking her to support me.

Ahhhh, I still have PTSD symptoms from some of our exchanges like that.

[bdyw8]

I understand, but say to yourself that it's only a question of time. It's not as if you sentenced yourself to celibacy for life. 

haha, very true, although the mind can certainly fool me into thinking that.  When my T told me I should try and go a year alone and not get into another relationship I told her that was a loonnng time.  I'm actually quite impressed I've gone a month and a half now and am not on a dating site, etc.  Trying to deal with my codependency issues so maybe I don't make the same mistakes the next go-around!

But yeah, I guess I shouldn't be so morbid in thinking I will never have that physical connection with a woman again.  Or that the physical connection is the most important thing as it was with my exBPD as we didn't have much else in common aside from that.  Surprised we lasted 4 years to be honest... .

[Fox Mulder]

I'm in this camp too.

I remember early on in the relationship, I kept being happily surprised that she had all the same kinks I had. What a wonderful coincidence, thought I, completely unaware of BPD and mirroring.

The sex was great. Lots of dirty talk. Filthy stuff. Lots of possessiveness. Dominant/submissive stuff. I miss it a lot. Too much. She was so willing to do anything, anywhere, anytime that sex became one of the primary motivating factors in my life when before it had been halfway down my top ten wants list. She made me feel like the most desirable man in the world. She wanted to belong to me and no one else, forever and always. So it went for the first two years.

Second two years were much rockier. She had been talking and webcamming with other men - far-away men, but still, men that bought her things and offered to meet her for sex. She wanted the attention, she needed it. I wasn't enough. She kept a secret blog where she got naked and received even more attention. She needed to feel wanted, and I guess that was an easy way to get that sort of attention.

She ended up cheating on me and leaving me for the other man. As time goes on, it's easier to forget the little moments - the cuddles, the inside jokes, the time when she brushed my tears away and legitimately appeared to care more for me than anyone else even had in my entire life. I'm having little moments with other people in my life now. But the sex - I don't think I'm going to forget the sex half as easily. Sex may not have been a main focus of my life before I met her, but it certainly is now, even after she's left and is having all that amazing sex with this new guy. It makes me feel bitter, angry, jealous. She told me she was all mine every single day, and then when suddenly wasn't. It still stings. I wish I could go back to the way I was before I met her.

[cosmonaut]

Some very nice posts by everyone.  One of the things I've noticed is the equation of sex with intimacy.  :)oes this sound like a healthy idea?  Sex is a part of a relationship, but what does it mean when it's the centerpiece?  Are we seeking to fulfill a very core need that is not being filled in the relationship otherwise?  Is there some pain inside of us we are seeking to soothe?  Should that be a red flag for us in the future that something might be wrong?

I think if we feel that the relationship or the sex in the relationship was addicting that's a very important realization.  Addictions are very complex illnesses and there is always far more underneath the surface than is initially apparent.  There is often deep core pain at the root of addiction.  Tending to that pain is often necessary to resolving the addiction.

In regards to BPD, some pwBPD use sex in two very unhealthy ways.  The first is an impulsive, often highly destructive way to soothe out of control emotions.  Just as they might engage in substance abuse, recklessly spending money, cutting, etc.  It is a way to distract themselves from emotions that are more than they can bear.  The other way is that it can be a very effective way to draw and hook people into attachments.  This is a behavior that is learned through life that people will respond to them sexually.  The more attractive a pwBPD is physically, the more this behavior is learned to be successful and thus is reinforced.  It is something that I find very sad and tragic.  It is not an act of love or intimacy, but rather an offering in a desperate attempt to get someone to love them.   One eye opening thought is that we might be engaging in similar behaviors for similar reasons.  It's been enlightening for me to realize that we are often more similar to our exes than we might ever initially believe.  In chemistry we say like attracts like.

[JohnLove]

Sex may not have been a main focus of my life before I met her, but it certainly is now, even after she's left and is having all that amazing sex with this new guy. It makes me feel bitter, angry, jealous. She told me she was all mine every single day, and then when suddenly wasn't. It still stings. I wish I could go back to the way I was before I met her.

Fox Mulder, its very difficult when you feel a deep connection but I would remember the good times (but not ruminate on them) and try learn from the bad experiences. You can't go back in time. This is now a part of you... .and you have to create a new story. The only positive thing that can come from your story is if you turn it around, grow, and it makes YOU a better person... .and for the right woman.  

On the flipside if all else fails I believe BPD is on the increase and if you have any rescuer traits you will attract another one and relive this experience.

Sorry, that was meant to be funny.  

[bdyw8]

I'm in this camp too.

I remember early on in the relationship, I kept being happily surprised that she had all the same kinks I had. What a wonderful coincidence, thought I, completely unaware of BPD and mirroring.

The sex was great. Lots of dirty talk. Filthy stuff. Lots of possessiveness. Dominant/submissive stuff. I miss it a lot. Too much. She was so willing to do anything, anywhere, anytime that sex became one of the primary motivating factors in my life when before it had been halfway down my top ten wants list. She made me feel like the most desirable man in the world. She wanted to belong to me and no one else, forever and always. So it went for the first two years.

Wow you just told my story here.   The things she said to me made me feel so desirable and empowered.  She would say things like "I only want to be with you forever" when we made love and all sorts of other things that I clung on to with every fibre of my being.   I wouldn't say something as mere "pillow talk" but it appears that is all it was.

Sorry to hear about what happened with your exBPD that's horrible.  I don't think mine was cheating on me, but I was discarded and tossed to the side without a second thought or consideration.  So I feel that sting too of having to go cold turkey on something I was so addicted to.

I think that it's possible to realign the priorities again, however.  For me, I'm really going to focus on getting passion from life again and from relationships with friends.  Maybe it sounds corny, but I'm going to try and rearrange my values and beliefs because they became so skewed in my r/s with my exBPD.  Probably time will be the great healer.

[bdyw8]

On the flipside if all else fails I believe BPD is on the increase and if you have any rescuer traits you will attract another one and relive this experience.

haha.  It's funny because I remarked to some friends that I'm drawn to crazy women because they make me feel so damn good at times, especially in the bedroom.  Only downside is the higher the ups, the farther you have to fall on the comedown.