Why the rages?

[Larmoyant]

My ex used to come over and pick me up for a date or I’d go to his and I remember feeling so excited and happy to see him. He seemed very happy to see me too, hug me and tell me I looked lovely. All would be well for about five minutes then all hell would break loose and he’d suddenly pick on something I’d said, twist it, leaving me utterly confused, and he’d get more and more worked up exploding into a rage.

It never really got better in the almost two years we were together. We’d meet up after being away for a few days, he’d rage at me, I’d argue back, or cry. Sometimes he’d calm down fairly quickly and we’d have a nice night, other times he’d rage at me all night (yes, I put up with this and I think this is codependency issues on my part!) but eventually he’d settle down and we’d mostly be ok for the next few days. Then I’d go home again and the cycle repeated itself.

I eventually tried to set some boundaries telling him that if he behaved this way I would leave. It got to the point that I was leaving almost every week. It was so painful and I could never understand it. Can anyone help me to understand what was going on here?

[Moselle]

I can try. pwBPD feel intense pain when they are triggered. I've read it described as the burning you might experience if we went out into the sun without a skin to protect us.

The triggers are a bit mysterious to me, but they feel particularly pained when they feel abandoned. Real or imagined abandonment. When you feel you need to leave to preserve your self and enforce a boundary, it's quite important to communicate that you are leaving to get your own emotions under control, and that you will return when the emotions have subsided. Try to give a time frame. Half an hour worked pretty well for me. Check back in to see if it has calmed back down and then resume normal communications.

They will often blame us for triggering them. That it's in effect our fault. It's called projection, a psychological defense mechanism to protect a very unstable sense of self. In reality it's best not to support this idea. It can be done by SET techniques. Sympathy "Sorry you feel upset". Empathy "I might have felt the same way if I was in your position". Truth. This can be something related to the incident or simply a truth about life. "I heard the doorman, I'm convinced he wasn't insulting the way you were dressed. He was just being friendly"

Try to read "The Lessons" on the improving board. There's alot there that can help you understand this disorder.

[Larmoyant]

Thanks Moselle, I’m starting to understand the concept of fear of abandonment, but can’t seem to fit it into this scenario. I would stay at his place Saturday night through to Wednesday afternoon then go home. It was when me met up, on Saturday evenings, after a period away, that he was at his worst not when I was going. I obviously triggered him in some way for him to start raging at me, but I don’t understand why. There also didn’t seem to be anything I could do to stop it. He once told me that he knew he was doing it, knew he was being unfair, but couldn’t seem to stop himself. I used to try some of the things you mention, but nothing seemed to work. When he was raging nothing could stop him until he decided.

[Jonathan Ricciardi]

Again Moselle is trying to put every single BPD in a basket, no two BPDs are exactly the same. just like every other human being. 

There is no fear of abandonment, if they had fear of abandonment issues, shunning someone is hardly the answer.  A BPD knows when they have stonewalled you, they're not stupid.  They don't sit there and wonder why your not around anymore, they know why.

The sooner you accept that many on this board are excuse makers for people with BPD the better off you will be.

[apollotech]

Thanks Moselle, I’m starting to understand the concept of fear of abandonment, but can’t seem to fit it into this scenario. I would stay at his place Saturday night through to Wednesday afternoon then go home. It was when me met up, on Saturday evenings, after a period away, that he was at his worst not when I was going. I obviously triggered him in some way for him to start raging at me, but I don’t understand why. There also didn’t seem to be anything I could do to stop it. He once told me that he knew he was doing it, knew he was being unfair, but couldn’t seem to stop himself. I used to try some of the things you mention, but nothing seemed to work. When he was raging nothing could stop him until he decided.

Hi Larmoyant,

This is my take on what you were experiencing. Not fear of abandonment triggered, fear of engulfment triggered. That's why he raged when you got there, when y'all were actually in the same room together. The rages were designed to push you away so that his engulfment issues could be abated. That having worked successfully, then he'd straighten up. After these rages which created distance between y'all, did he come back to you? Did he apologize or seem remorseful about his prior behavior, the raging?

When he was raging nothing could stop him until he decided. Yes, he didn't/wouldn't stop until his engulfment issues eased.

[Larmoyant]

Hi Jonathan525, I agree every person is different BPD or not, however, when you read of people’s experiences here there are so many behaviours that are similar. There has to be some sort of explanation for why they do what they do. I keep trying to understand because it might help me get through because I’m hurting so much. I tend to agree that they know what they’re doing though because my ex once admitted this but said that he couldn't seem to stop himself. Yet other times he would outright deny saying or doing something abusive. Maybe that's some sort of defence mechanism. I don't know just trying to understand. My problem was letting him get away with it all too often.

Hi Apollotech,

Thank you so much as this makes a lot of sense. I’ve always had trouble trying to work out the push/pull. He really was like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hide and it was so painful to experience. He'd mostly blame me after one of his explosions, occasionally he’d sort of apologise, and as I said to Jonathan above, one time he actually said that he could see himself ranting, knew he was being unfair, but couldn’t stop.

My reaction was to either argue back and we’d have a fight, although I’d always end up wretched and in tears. Like many people have experienced on here he was often very, very cruel, other times I’d just be thinking “oh no please not again”. I got used to it I think because sometimes I’d just wait it out knowing that it would eventually stop. Towards the end I tried to set some boundaries and I’d just leave and drive home devastated. He’d blow up my mobile and a few times I’d go back, but it all got too much and I stopped going back. The damage caused by this push/pull has been extensive. I’m barely functioning now, seeing a therapist and trying to rebuild my sense of self-worth. Illness or not he abused me terribly yet it’s so very hard walking away from it all. I miss him.

[apollotech]

Thank you so much as this makes a lot of sense. I’ve always had trouble trying to work out the push/pull. He really was like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hide and it was so painful to experience. He'd mostly blame me after one of his explosions, occasionally he’d sort of apologise, and as I said to Jonathan above, one time he actually said that he could see himself ranting, knew he was being unfair, but couldn’t stop.

My reaction was to either argue back and we’d have a fight, although I’d always end up wretched and in tears. Like many people have experienced on here he was often very, very cruel, other times I’d just be thinking “oh no please not again”. I got used to it I think because sometimes I’d just wait it out knowing that it would eventually stop. Towards the end I tried to set some boundaries and I’d just leave and drive home devastated. He’d blow up my mobile and a few times I’d go back, but it all got too much and I stopped going back. The damage caused by this push/pull has been extensive. I’m barely functioning now, seeing a therapist and trying to rebuild my sense of self-worth. Illness or not he abused me terribly yet it’s so very hard walking away from it all. I miss him.

Hi Larmoyant,

Yep, the push/pull is very destructive. In my relationship, that was probably the most personally emotionally devastating thing that my ex did to me; I always felt emotionally shredded while in and after going through one of the push/pull cycles. Kudos to you for empowering yourself in the scenario by not participating in his chaos ("I stopped going back.".

The push/pull is a product of fear of engulfment (generates push behaviors from the pwBPD) and fear of abandonment (generates pull behaviors from the pwBPD). The scenario you described above illustrates both of these fears triggered in him. When y'all were together, he'd become engulfed (fear of engulfment = fear of losing one's self). That will trigger pushing behavior(s)---raging, ST, acting out inappropriately with others, disappearing, etc. They are all used to create distance within the relationship; which therefore, will allow engulfment issues to calm. On the flip side of that, there is the fear of abandonment. This generates pull behaviors---apologies, love bombing, etc. These are designed to pull someone closer. You can see both in your scenario---he rages = you leave/he blows your phone up = you come back. For a pwBPD, that's the cycle that they are caught in---attempting to appease either fear of engulfment or fear of abandonment. Unfortunately, Non's are used as pawns in this appeasement process (moved around by the pwBPD, dependent upon the emotional state of the pwBPD at the time---engulfment triggered or abandonment triggered).

As you gain a better understanding of how BPD manifests itself in a pwBPD and also how it manifests itself in a relationship with a pwBPD, I think you'll begin to see clearly just how little control you actually exercised over your relationship. Likewise, he too had little control over the relationship because many of his actions/behaviors were driven by him attempting to regulate himself, negate his BPD issues.

[SummerStorm]

Hi Larmoyant,

I'm just going to piggyback on what apollotech has been saying.  This sounds like fear of engulfment to me.  And it really does sound like the push/pull caused by both fear of engulfment and fear of abandonment.

My BPD friend is very easily triggered by both of these things.  If she doesn't hear from me for several days, she will text me and tell me she misses me.  But as soon as we start texting a lot or the conversation gets too intimate (for her, it doesn't take much), she pushes me away.  It's very hard to deal with, that's for sure.

[Larmoyant]

Hi Summerstorm, it truly is confusing and painful. appollotech I need to give you a great big hug as I've been so confused and trying to get my head around this for almost two years now. I never knew if I was coming or going. How can a relationship ever survive on such shaky ground? No wonder I sometimes felt as if I was going insane. One thing I know is I gave it my best shot, but what a price I paid! The next thing to work out is why I dropped the rope on my life and put up with such terrible abuse. Thank you again you have helped me so much.

[apollotech]

How can a relationship ever survive on such shaky ground?

The large majority of them don't survive. It's hard to maintain a relationship of any kind, not just of a romantic nature, with that degree of constant instability that BPD inherently brings into a relationship. How does a relationship grow and mature with constant instability?---it can't. How does it nurture and fulfill both parties when everything that was once done is, in the blink of an emotional change, suddenly undone?---it can't. The few relationships that do survive are never without the instability. If you read on the Staying Board you'll see the instability present, even with both parties committed to the relationship and working hard to make it work.

[GreenEyedMonster]

For some individuals, things going well or being good is enough to trigger them, because they have an underlying belief that every time things are good, that's when it falls apart.  It's like PTSD.

[Itstopsnow]

Also some of their rages are simply due to the way they perceive things. They are thinned skinned a lot of times. and take things in an extra sensitive way. Everything is personal to them . Remember they are conditioned to look for the negative in what you are saying to them. Or simply they don't like your tone of voice. Or the look you gave them. It is no wonder why a lot of BPD people do not have close friendships. Their interpersonal skills are totally screwed up due to their disorder and brain chemistry. It is not all their fault. They tend to lean towards anger and anxieties or depression and anxieties as their resting place. Sometimes I do feel very bad for my ex. That must be exhausting being inside his mind with all those constant running thoughts. And constantly looking for the negative thing to happening. That has to be a nightmare. And they in turn unleash their rage or outburst at us because they can cope or process these feelings and they can't share what they are feeling with us. They don't really even understand it themselves. Especially if they are not seeking help. TO me I consider a BPD that isn't in treatment like a drug addict or alcoholic on the streets. Things can become very out of control for them fast. and if they don't have the proper meds and counseling then they will freak out and take it out on their loved ones. It is sad.

[Turkish]

I asked my Ex once what was going through her mind when she got extremely angry and lashed out at others. She replied, "I just want everyone else to feel my pain!" Years later, I still try to understand this; not the emotion, but the choice to hurt others, because brain miswiring or not, it still implies some level of choice.

[Itstopsnow]

Turkish, I think it would be easier to understand it if you view them in that moment as the child,  she wants to make everyone feel as bad as her. Children lash out when they are mad and haven learned coping mechanism that are adult. I'm sure In their minds they aren't doing it in a sociopathic way,  With delight, and plotting

BPD, no doubt is a very very selfish, self centered disorder . But it is so complicated in the way that they don't always understand the depth of what they are really doing to people and others that they "proclaim" to love. They can't scope it out in their mind, and quite frankly they don't want to know how it feels for us . Because then they would have to be accountable . They  primarily care about their own wants and needs. Especially in times of crisis. Then they act out in all terrible ways. When she said that to you, she was at least being honest. See all she feels and sees most of the time is her pain. I do feel for them with that constant angst. But they don't try to put the effort in to get help or see they are causing most of the drama. They won't even admit most times to causing any of it. Again this is why it's hard to stay with them or want to work it out and it makes its hard to have compassion for them. It's better to let go and move on

[Turkish]

Turkish, I think it would be easier to understand it if you view them in that moment as the child,  she wants to make everyone feel as bad as her. Children lash out when they are mad and haven learned coping mechanism that are adult.

The Duluth Model of DV says that abuse is a choice. I saw this in a way when my Ex could barely keep it together until we got behind closed doors.

I went through the BPD behaviors with S6 (thinking of what apollotech said in the sense of self thread, "we were all BPD at some point... ." as children.). Today, D3/close to 4 ran off at a wilderness park today. We lost her for almost ten minutes. She was mad because I didn't pick her up, and pausing to look at a map and give some people directions, she bolted. She ran down the road back to a picnic area near where we parked. My mom didn't see it, nor did her brother. She was angry, and wanted to prove it by fleeing, even though she's almost at the age when she should know better. I jogged back down the road, pausing to ask an elderly man if he had seen a little girl pass by (the other direction was a bridge across water and wilderness--- I chose thd likely direction she had gone). He had. My daughter was still defiant when I found her. It was all about her, and it's how she's operating at this moment in her emotional development.

If I don't assert boundaries and consequences, this will likely continue. I often engage in a thought experiment, musing "if I did this, or didn't do that, would my children turn out BPD, or some other PD?"

My Ex told me that she didn't even speak until she was 5. Her wounds run deep.

[Itstopsnow]

Wow, that is really rough. I struggle with thoughts of my ex and his behaviors . But I'm lucky because we have no kids or anything to keep us in contact. I do see and know what you mean. It's of course still always a choice when it comes down to it in what they do and say. But I think we will never get the full understanding because our brains are not like theirs and we can't fully understand their thoughts, and actions . Just as they can't understand and know what it is to not feel what they feel. It's exhausting to think about and rationalize . That's why I need to just let go and let God. Still a process I haven't mastered . I feel still so heartbroken and sad. I'm sorry for what you've dealt with. It is in my opinion the most selfish, self centered disorder with such entitlement as well. I don't think it will ever make full sense.

[Michelle27]

My ex started to express understanding of his issues towards the end of the marriage (but not enough to truly commit to therapy).  He described his feelings as a giant boulder that he is holding up on a mountain with one finger.  At times, it gets too hard to hold it back so it falls, hence, a rage.

I also read an analogy here a year or so ago that really resonated (and my ex said he agreed with it).  We all have an emotional "cup" within us.  When it gets full, healthy people find healthy ways to expend that emotional energy.  When the emotional cup of a pwBPD gets full, they don't have the capacity to release it in healthy ways, so they throw the whole cup at the person they are closest to.