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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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steelwork
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« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2016, 10:28:10 AM »

Ok folks you win, she didn't stonewall me.  She gave me the silent treatment for 3 years, but I was told by moderators on this board, that is no longer silent treatment, so it isn't that.  Splitting me black is not the reason as I did nothing that would make her have negative emotional experiences by thinking of me.  That is silly.  I treated her well.

You don't know that. If she has BPD, you might have done something that set her off without ever knowing it. It's a mental disorder.
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« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2016, 10:29:21 AM »

I treated her well.

Is this what you are really looking for, Jonathan?  Is the answer that you want this hurt to be seen and acknowledged?  You feel you treated her well and now she won't speak to you.  That's some world class pain right there, my man.  That will knock you flat.  Many of us here can sympathize.  We've been through it too.  Is that what's been eating you up for the last 3 years?
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« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2016, 10:29:51 AM »

Ok folks you win, she didn't stonewall me.  She gave me the silent treatment for 3 years, but I was told by moderators on this board, that is no longer silent treatment, so it isn't that.  Splitting me black is not the reason as I did nothing that would make her have negative emotional experiences by thinking of me.  That is silly.  I treated her well.

You don't know that. If she has BPD, you might have done something that set her off without ever knowing it. It's a mental disorder.

Besides, it might be subconscious for her too.

At one point we ourselves become triggers to our exBPDgf/bf.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2016, 10:30:06 AM »

That is another point, so many of you throw around over lapping terms and think you're offering something different.  A word meaning the same thing is the same thing.  To the person using Merriam-Webster... .that is a dictionary... .that is not a medical dictionary or psychological dictionary.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2016, 10:31:22 AM »

Now lets throw in the word subconscious, avoidant, add some more guys eventually you can use every word available.
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« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2016, 10:32:12 AM »

That is another point, so many of you throw around over lapping terms and think you're offering something different.  A word meaning the same thing is the same thing.  To the person using Merriam-Webster... .that is a dictionary... .that is not a medical dictionary or psychological dictionary.

The point is 100% synonyms do not exist. It's a fact. Each term is used for a specific reason.
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steelwork
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« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2016, 10:35:47 AM »

That is another point, so many of you throw around over lapping terms and think you're offering something different.  A word meaning the same thing is the same thing.  To the person using Merriam-Webster... .that is a dictionary... .that is not a medical dictionary or psychological dictionary.

Relax.

Read the helpful suggestions you got.

Is cosmonaut correct--do you just want to express your pain?

Do you want to hear that it's not your fault, that it wasn't fair?

It wasn't fair. Life is unfair. BPD is a horrible disorder.

Peace out, Jonathan. I've done what I can. I hope you find your answers.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2016, 10:36:46 AM »

Good to know that you all offer sound advice on synonyms.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2016, 10:38:14 AM »

That is the point, there are no answers.  If someone doesn't like your answer, you paint them black.  I'm starting to learn that many of you do exactly what you complain your exes of doing. 
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steelwork
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« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2016, 10:39:20 AM »

That is the point, there are no answers.  If someone doesn't like your answer, you paint them black.  I'm starting to learn that many of you do exactly what you complain your exes of doing. 

If there are no answers, then why do you keep asking questions?
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« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2016, 10:40:13 AM »

That is the point, there are no answers.  If someone doesn't like your answer, you paint them black.  I'm starting to learn that many of you do exactly what you complain your exes of doing.  

Lol. Come on Jonathan. You asked why is she ghosting you. We said because she split you and because it's part of her sickness. What else can we answer?
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2016, 10:41:45 AM »

That is what I'm here for to explain that you can do all the research you want, and it still supplies no answers, no facts.  I want people to know that they're hated, shunning, ghosting, silent treatment, stonewalling are all the end. It is good bye to you, there is nothing you can do.
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« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2016, 10:43:39 AM »

That is what I'm here for to explain that you can do all the research you want, and it still supplies no answers, no facts.  I want people to know that they're hated, shunning, ghosting, silent treatment, stonewalling are all the end. It is good bye to you, there is nothing you can do.

We are aware that there is nothing we can do. However, we can still support each other though? Don't you think so?
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2016, 10:43:53 AM »

You have no idea if she split me... .that is a theory.  Let say she split me black, how does that accomplish anything? She has clearly moved on.  Again, none of you here are able to clinically diagnose anybody.  
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cosmonaut
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« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2016, 10:44:27 AM »

That is what I'm here for to explain that you can do all the research you want, and it still supplies no answers, no facts.  I want people to know that they're hated, shunning, ghosting, silent treatment, stonewalling are all the end. It is good bye to you, there is nothing you can do.

Ok, I see.  Thanks for sharing that insight with us, Jonathan.  In light of that, how do you think that you can start to come to accept that this is the end?  Is that the next step for you?
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steelwork
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« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2016, 10:45:02 AM »

Why did she stonewall me? Simple question.

So you answered your own question, so we're good to go.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2016, 10:45:55 AM »

Oh I have accepted that it is over, I have accepted that she hates me.  How many times should I tell you this or anybody else.  Once a BPD doesn't like you... .its over... .bye bye.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2016, 10:48:09 AM »

I think people need to be warned, not told that the BPD is stupid and has the mentality of a 3 year old, 3 year olds don't date and have sex.  You people make things up to make you feel better.
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« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2016, 10:49:33 AM »

so your purpose for being here is to educate us, do i have that right?
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« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2016, 10:49:58 AM »

You have no idea if she split me... .that is a theory.  Let say she split me black, how does that accomplish anything? She has clearly moved on.  Again, none of you here are able to clinically diagnose anybody.  

Indeed, you are right, we have no idea. We don't know her. Maybe she is not BPD, because we don't know her.

But, all the answers we provide are of course with taking into account her possible BPD.

Now, if she doesn't have BPD, then I am not sure that a BPD forum can be really helpful. All we can do is give support to each other and together share our life experience. It would be foolish to expect from a forum to diagnose anyone or to find THE answer to all the questions.  
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« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2016, 10:53:00 AM »

I think people need to be warned, not told that the BPD is stupid and has the mentality of a 3 year old, 3 year olds don't date and have sex.  You people make things up to make you feel better.

You got that very wrong.

pwBPD are not mentally 3 year old kids! PwBPD have emotions similar to a 3 year old. Not the intelligence and the rest. It's all about regulating emotions. Just like toddlers, they couldn't develop it due to trauma. However, with appropriate therapies like DBT, there have been proofs that a pwBPD can improve and be helped to better regulate their emotions.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2016, 10:55:53 AM »

People have to want help... .most BPD never ever receive treatment.  They go undiagnosed all their lives.  DBT only works for those seeking help.

A three year old is not thinking we should have sex... .its not in a three year olds make up. 
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« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2016, 11:01:49 AM »

People have to want help... .most BPD never ever receive treatment.  They go undiagnosed all their lives.  :)BT only works for those seeking help.

A three year old is not thinking we should have sex... .its not in a three year olds make up.  

Nobody ever said they are three year old kids. They are adults but picturing the world in black and white JUST LIKE children on the emotional level.

That doesn't mean they have not developed other adults behaviors such as speech, intelligence, humor, taste for music, for hobbies, being in love and making love.  

Nobody ever said that pwBPD are behaving like toddlers.

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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2016, 11:07:09 AM »

I have read numerous times on this board and from moderators, that, yes the BPD has the emotional maturity of a 3 year old.  If you need me to find that, I will.  No normal child sees the world in black and white either.  Children know pain and hurt. 
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« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2016, 11:14:56 AM »

I have read numerous times on this board and from moderators, that, yes the BPD has the emotional maturity of a 3 year old.  If you need me to find that, I will.  No normal child sees the world in black and white either.  Children know pain and hurt.  

Children know pain and hurt, of course. But they must pass through the stage of black and white in the beginning of their emotional level. It is only later that they learn that there are also shades. That people not necessarily either love or hate you, but that there is much more to the feelings than just love and hate.

The problem with pwBPD is that when their bf/gf, for example, initiate break up with them they immediately think it's because their exBF/GF hates them. It's all or nothing kind of thinking. But they don't realize that there is more to the emotions than just loving or hating.
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« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2016, 11:17:07 AM »

To the MODs:  please review and if not in accordance with the rules, please remove.


Jonathon525

You are given great advice, many insights in order to understand and process your hurt and/or your hunger for knowledge.

Until now I was a silent reader of your topics and many others in which you expressed yourself in a way that I in way felt, even just as a simple reader, insulted.

Insulted in a way that I must have been a complete idiot, even total insane for having had a 30+yrs r/s with a person like exw. All my pain, all I read and learned throughout the yrs. was a waste of time… So deeply shameful towards myself too that even a P couldn’t put a finger on me…

Reading your story, you say in your 1st post that you learned a lot about BPD online and through counselling.

That there was a long history, starting once as puppy love, both moved on and well in your forties you met again and had a short r/s of only 6 months.

In your story you don’t mention a previous r/s nor if you have raised kids (you mentioned you are 46) maybe there are none or it is just your choice not to talk about that past.

Quoting you:

+if they're emotionally immature, that of a 3 year old, they would never get into relationships.

No? A kid has the greatest r/s one can imagine; receiving unconditional love and nurturing, without realising(!) that love is a 2 way street… Now ask yourself, how could a kid?

View a kids r/s with parent from THEIR still very narrow (emotional) world… Getting upset when they ‘feel’ abandoned, getting mad at you when you failed (in their eyes), blaming you when they feel upset and so expecting you to solve it. Still… you show your love, still you will be around, unconditionally…

YEP, a kid is fully aware what they are doing…

Please ask yourself when you deny a kid a sweetie and you catch them, isn’t the first response denial? EVEN when they are still chewing?

Ever asked yourself why that denial? It is shame, shame only, because they let you down! YOU, the one they look up to!

Then the next reaction is justification (for THEIR mind, for their SURVIVAL, to sustain that bond with you!), and eventually blaming you for withholding a sweetie. As YOU should have understand their desperate signs!

… So I am mad at YOU! YOU made me feel bad! YOU don’t fulfil MY expectations!  I love you – I hate you… SPLIT BLACK … THEIR hero (parent) failed…

So, YOU are RIGHT, a BPD NEVER shuts their emotions off… they suppress it by behaviour, like we do, but different…

+A BPD never shuts off their emotions, they may shut them off to an individual or individuals, but no they don't ever shut off their emotions totally.

Now by growing up the second stage comes after ‘shame’ and that is ‘guild’. The ability to learn from previous ‘mistakes’.

Knowing that, ask yourself if that person in a skin of 43 yr. old (your ex) seemingly shows the same kind of behaviour as that kid.

Knowing that, ask yourself (and in your posts you answered it already…) is that woman of 43 emotional immature and that you played for a short time the role of ‘parent’ as her previous ‘parent’ FAILED…  

Quoting you:

+Don't let the people on here tell you she doesn't know what she's doing.

+The fact is BPD people know exactly what they're doing during a breakup.

+I told you guys that they know what they're doing, I keep proving it because you have no answers.  Unless she is an emotional zombie she knows what she did, she knew that when she ended things it meant never talking again.

+As far as mine being a single incident, you need to do your homework, on Silent Treatment, Ghosting, Ostracizing, Stonewalling, all of it.


+That is the point Suzn, you and many on this board are giving people false hopes, its wrong.  When a BPD is done with someone, they're done. +There isn't a thing one can do about it, I have yet to see one person on this board say that.

+Many of you try to make excuses for these people


   Do we? Or do we want to understand, do we come over here to learn, to learn about ourselves too?

Maybe it helps to get more insight, but I am afraid not, as you several times clearly stated that you appreciate input but won’t buy the ‘crap’/ the reasons as why your ex (and many other exes as described on this Board) behaved the way they do. I would suggest to have second thoughts about that.

Yet you seems to diminish most or even any professional points of view about BPD / Cluster B. Diminish the idea that a human that acts outside the bandwidth as accepted by society (and as would be expected by a romantic partner living up to the same normal norms and values) can act ‘weird’; in cases as described on this Board even seems to have, at least from our point of view, some mental issues.

It seems to me, and reading some reactions on your posts, and others too, that you are still very hurt, still have a lot of anger and shows so much deep black bitterness in your tone.

Maybe, just maybe, because of that some of your posts really offend me!

I quote you again:

+I have waited 3 years and continue to wait for contact from her, I've accepted she isn't coming back.

+I have been given the silent treatment for 3 years.

Interpreting (and upfront my excuses as I am not native English) you still seems a kind of upset/hurt that 3 yrs. later you still don’t hear a word of her.

Did she maybe indeed moved on? As once both of you moved on for many, many yrs.?

However, you also wrote:

+She has every right to dump you, there is nothing abnormal about breaking up.  People do it everyday


I understand (again I am not a native speaker) your ex was diagnosed, or just found someone else?

+Why does your ex have to have BPD, she found someone else, very common, doesn't mean she is BPD.

So, what is your problem to understand?

Again quoting:

+Of course I can accept she is an independent person and free to make her own choices. So I guess that's it, shut down this site, Turkish has it all figured out, people are allowed to make their own decisions... .what a novel concept.

Well  Jonathan525  again your words

+Nothing more to be said, all you folks out there, just remember it has nothing to do with BPD its all just you needing to accept that people have the right to make their own choices. Wow great insight.

How did you put it?

+Treat them as they treat you.

         + She hates me. Though hate takes energy


To me, you have a lot of that energy…
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For years someone I loved once gave me boxes full of darkness.
It made me sad, it made me cry.
It took me long to understand that these were the most wonderful gifts.
It was all she had to give
Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2016, 11:21:09 AM »

Well when people break up with you, its not because they love you.  So if someone dumps somebody a natural reaction is that they don't like you, other wise you would be together.

pwBPD know exactly what they're doing, don't believe that.  A person with BPD knows exactly why they have given you silent treatment, painted you black, shunned, ostracized, stonewalled, any other term that makes the board happy.  They know why the relationship ended, other wise they would never dump you.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2016, 11:26:09 AM »

to ditched, anyone can pick and chose quotes of randomness, it actually showed me as well, you have a lot of energy. I have no children, I have mentioned that before.

I can see you want to stonewall me as well. 
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« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2016, 11:30:16 AM »

ill ask again: is your purpose for being here to educate us? debate us?
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« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2016, 11:30:32 AM »

Well when people break up with you, its not because they love you.  So if someone dumps somebody a natural reaction is that they don't like you, other wise you would be together.

pwBPD know exactly what they're doing, don't believe that.  A person with BPD knows exactly why they have given you silent treatment, painted you black, shunned, ostracized, stonewalled, any other term that makes the board happy.  They know why the relationship ended, other wise they would never dump you.

Not true. You can like many people and not date them. Sometimes things don't work out as expected and break up, but it's not because things are not working out as expected that you are going to hate the person. YOu can still like the person as a friend. You can still have both empathy and empathy without necessarily be in a relationship with that person. You can always wish the best and not feel a single resentment and yet not be in a relationship.
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