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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« on: February 12, 2016, 07:35:56 AM »

I was stonewalled by my ex, I know she hates me.  People don't just shun someone they love for 3 years.  My question is this, I have seen people who said they have had their ex comeback after 3 years, I would like to know how?  If you have no contact for 3 plus years, how do they know how to find you? How did they get back into your life? do they act like nothing happened?
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C.Stein
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« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2016, 08:15:38 AM »

People don't just shun someone they love for 3 years.

What makes you think she loves you ... .especially after 3 years?  Why are you waiting for her to come back?

My ex threw me away like a piece of trash but not before she replaced me.  She has completely deleted me from her life like I never existed.  Yet at one time she felt I was the love of her life and that if it wasn't me it would be no one ... .and she said as much.   Does it make sense ... .NO!  Is her behavior logical or rational ... .NO!  What can I do about it ... .NOTHING!  She has completely turned her back on me in every way possible and "moved on" ... .and it hurts like hell!

Fact of the matter is she is gone and the chances of her ever coming back or ever contacting me again are slim to none, even if I wanted it which a small part of me does. 

Why is this?  I believe I have become a mirror to her true self.  When she thinks of me she is reminded of all the bad things she did and it causes a tremendous amount of shame and guilt.  In order for her to avoid those feelings, to make herself feel like she is not a bad person I am relatively certain I have been painted the blackest of blacks.  She has blamed me for all the things she did wrong therefore avoiding any direct responsibility for both her actions, consequences of those actions and the destruction of the relationship.  It is easier for her to blame me and run away to never look back because looking back would mean she has to face her true self and that is just not going to happen.

Even if by some miracle she were to finally accept responsibility for what she did, to be self-aware (which I know she is capable of) and could find a way to face me, or even write me, she won't.  Her shame and fear of rejection will keep her away forever.

Yes, it is cold-hearted and even cruel but it's what she needs to do in order to survive.  I'm not going to even pretend that I can understand it because I am not her.  The only option I have left is to find a way to accept what has happened, to accept she is not capable of keeping her "dark side" suppressed, to accept she is not capable of being in or sustaining a healthy relationship based on love, respect, honesty and caring.

So yea man, I get it.  It hurts like hell and it is damned frustrating to not have answers.  There is no one here, or anywhere, that can answer your questions with any amount of certainty.  Sure you can speculate till the cows come home but you will never know anything with 100% certainty.  This is something you have to accept ... .just like I have to find a way to accept ... .just like many on this board have to accept. 

If you want speculation then here you go.  It is relatively easy to track someone down on the internet, especially if you fork out some money.  Then they can reach out to you via whatever communication method is available.  And yes, more likely than not it will be like nothing ever happened because that is the way it works, not only with pwBPD but with pretty much anyone.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2016, 08:25:26 AM »

You're having a tough time reading my posts, I never said she loved me after 3 years, I said she hates me.  I have accepted that.

Everything on this board is speculation... .nothing is based in fact.  You have your speculations on why she left, they are great observations on your part, and I can tell you're a smart, educated human being.  But you know what, you have no idea what really happened. 

I'm sorry your ex stonewalled you, trust me it hurts.

Asking why I want her to comeback is a great question, I have no idea.  But, she is moving on and that's great.  She has every right to dump me at any time.  Ignore me for the rest of her life.  I don't dispute any of that.

Why does your ex have to have BPD, she found someone else, very common, doesn't mean she is BPD.  If she is still in a relationship, maybe she is with person meant to be with.
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C.Stein
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« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2016, 08:46:55 AM »

Everything on this board is speculation... .nothing is based in fact.

When you are trying to dissect what another person is thinking and feeling, especially one that is disordered, you are absolutely correct ... .everything is speculation.  That said, there are many facts to be found on this site as well.

A formal diagnosis is the only way to be relatively certain someone suffers from a PD, regardless of what it is.  You can however look at behavioral patterns and make an "educated" guess as to why a person behaves in such a confusing and destructive manner.  For me, I have taken numerous different screening tests, at different times, using my knowledge of my ex to determine the likelihood of her suffering from BPD.  Every test I took and every time I took it the results showed she is probably suffering from BPD and should seek a formal diagnosis.  So that coupled with behavioral similarities with people who have been diagnosed leads me to the conclusion that it is highly likely she is suffering from BPD on at least some level.   Even with all that the doubt still remains in my mind as my ex is not one of the "extreme" cases.

What does this all boil down to?  The fact of the matter here is I will never get satisfactory answers to my questions ... .nor will you ever get satisfactory answers to your questions.    You need to find a way to provide your own answers and closure, which is why you are on this board.  You will never find the magic bullet that peeks into your ex's mind and gives you that ah-ha moment ... .not here ... .not anywhere.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2016, 08:53:54 AM »

I've also accepted she's not coming back.  I know it's over.  I totally respect all the homework and foot pounding you have done, I really do.  I can tell you're a smart person, but how can you just decide to write your own conclusions, that are based on observations and books? You have invested a lot of time into someone who has no interest in you.  I'm in the same boat, and I feel that I'm the one who is ill.  Normal people don't care this much.
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2016, 09:00:33 AM »

I was stonewalled by my ex, I know she hates me.  People don't just shun someone they love for 3 years.  My question is this, I have seen people who said they have had their ex comeback after 3 years, I would like to know how?  If you have no contact for 3 plus years, how do they know how to find you? How did they get back into your life? do they act like nothing happened?

My two cents of speculated educated guess based on my experience and what I've read on BPD. At some point they do what is called splitting. They behave as if you have never exited. Actually what happens is they paint you black for no apparent reason. In reality it's their sickness doing it.

Now, all of us, not only pwBPD, have our moments when we are fed up with some behaviors or people, but normally it is never strong, nor worrying to the point to split the person nor something that lasts. We have our what we call ups and downs, our swinging moods. But in case of a borderline, those swingings are so strong that it affects their emotions. Think of a 3-year old child who one day likes his new toy and genuinely thinks it will be his favorite toy ever. But few days later, all of sudden his/her excitement for the new toy fades and never plays with it again. I don't know if this example is a good one, but it can pretty much illustrate that their feelings at the time of loving is genuine, but cannot be trusted when they say it's forever.

Now, regarding coming back would be the same wild guess as to ask a three year old child if he/she would be as excited as he/she used to be to see back the toy he/she had already played with.    
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C.Stein
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2016, 09:00:49 AM »

how can you just decide to write your own conclusions, that are based on observations and books?

Because I have no other choice.  I am also still struggling with it, more than I care to admit.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2016, 09:07:40 AM »

Isn't painting someone black, just another term, for silent treatment, ghosting, ostracizing, stonewalling? Changing the wording doesn't change the situation. 
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C.Stein
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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2016, 09:10:01 AM »

Isn't painting someone black, just another term, for silent treatment, ghosting, ostracizing, stonewalling?

No, it is not.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2016, 09:12:51 AM »

I think you need to do some homework, ghosting, silent treatment, stonewalling, painting someone black, all have the same result, no acknowledgement.
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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2016, 09:15:08 AM »

Isn't painting someone black, just another term, for silent treatment, ghosting, ostracizing, stonewalling? Changing the wording doesn't change the situation. 

No, painting you black means that a pwBPD will hold you responsible for all the negative things. They can even make up things that you actually never did. It's their moment of hate phase, as they are unable to think in shades. It's all black or white. Either you're THE angel or THE devil to them.
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2016, 09:21:32 AM »

People don't just shun someone they love for 3 years.

Fact of the matter is she is gone and the chances of her ever coming back or ever contacting me again are slim to none, even if I wanted it which a small part of me does. 

Why is this?  I believe I have become a mirror to her true self.  When she thinks of me she is reminded of all the bad things she did and it causes a tremendous amount of shame and guilt.  In order for her to avoid those feelings, to make herself feel like she is not a bad person I am relatively certain I have been painted the blackest of blacks.  She has blamed me for all the things she did wrong therefore avoiding any direct responsibility for both her actions, consequences of those actions and the destruction of the relationship.  It is easier for her to blame me and run away to never look back because looking back would mean she has to face her true self and that is just not going to happen.

Even if by some miracle she were to finally accept responsibility for what she did, to be self-aware (which I know she is capable of) and could find a way to face me, or even write me, she won't.  Her shame and fear of rejection will keep her away forever.

Yes, it is cold-hearted and even cruel but it's what she needs to do in order to survive.  I'm not going to even pretend that I can understand it because I am not her.  The only option I have left is to find a way to accept what has happened, to accept she is not capable of keeping her "dark side" suppressed, to accept she is not capable of being in or sustaining a healthy relationship based on love, respect, honesty and caring.

AMEN!
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C.Stein
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« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2016, 09:34:23 AM »

I think you need to do some homework, ghosting, silent treatment, stonewalling, painting someone black, all have the same result, no acknowledgement.

Painting someone black is not the same as ghosting, etc... . It is basically a projection of your own faults and actions onto another person.  In the case of the pwBPD, specifically my ex, she does it because she can not accept responsibility for her hurtful actions.  She needs an excuse, some way to justify her actions in her own mind.  This usually comes via projection and painting someone or something various shades of black.  For more on this see my thread on the subject.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=287572.0;all

and perhaps my thread on accountability might help to.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=288926.0;all

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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2016, 09:42:48 AM »

So she split you black? You explain to me how that is any different than ghosting, stonewalling, silent treatment, it is all the same thing. It means you have been outed. They don't like you.
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cosmonaut
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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2016, 09:52:05 AM »

So she split you black? You explain to me how that is any different than ghosting, stonewalling, silent treatment, it is all the same thing. It means you have been outed. They don't like you.

You've been informed of the proper usage of the terms several times now, Jonathan, but you have chosen to reject them.  That's your decision to make, of course.  Please do realize, however, that the rest of the us will have misunderstandings in communicating with you due to your misuse of the terms.

I've noticed across a number of your threads that you ask a question, but then immediately discard the answer.  Are you aware of that?  Do you know why that is?
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2016, 09:56:43 AM »

No one here has supplied answers, they have supplied thought, that's it.  No one here knows what is going on in someone else's head.

I'm smart enough to know that ghosting, stonewalling, silent treatment, and painting someone black is all the same thing... .they don't like you.  They don't want you in their lives. 
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cosmonaut
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« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2016, 10:00:35 AM »

No one here has supplied answers, they have supplied thought, that's it.  No one here knows what is going on in someone else's head.

I'm smart enough to know that ghosting, stonewalling, silent treatment, and painting someone black is all the same thing... .they don't like you.  They don't want you in their lives. 

People have supplied you answers.  You don't see that?  Can you tell me what an answer would be?
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« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2016, 10:02:04 AM »

No one here has supplied answers, they have supplied thought, that's it.  No one here knows what is going on in someone else's head.

I'm smart enough to know that ghosting, stonewalling, silent treatment, and painting someone black is all the same thing... .they don't like you.  They don't want you in their lives. 

Not true. Some behaviours are tools for punishment, others are tools for detachment. The only common thing across them is that they are used dysfunctionally against a person.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2016, 10:04:15 AM »

An answer is she hates me.  She did it by stonewalling, same result as painting someone black, or the silent treatment, or even ghosting, the difference are so minute, that is silly to argue over.  The point is in this entire thing, is your exBPD wants nothing to do with you, they hate you.  :)oes it really matter why?  
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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2016, 10:05:09 AM »

No one here has supplied answers, they have supplied thought, that's it.  No one here knows what is going on in someone else's head.

I'm smart enough to know that ghosting, stonewalling, silent treatment, and painting someone black is all the same thing... .they don't like you.  They don't want you in their lives. 

Ghosting, stonewalling, etc. may be the result of splitting. However in every psychological document and reference we refer to SPLITTING, not to ghosting.

AN example:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201112/black-and-white-thinking-is-both-BPD-and-npd-trait


If you however want to call it with other words, you're free to do so, but as cosmonaut said, there is a risk of misunderstanding.

I'd say that splitting is part of a sickness, whereas ghosting is not necessarily part of someone's sickness, it could be temporary.
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« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2016, 10:05:38 AM »

No one here has supplied answers, they have supplied thought, that's it.  No one here knows what is going on in someone else's head.

I'm smart enough to know that ghosting, stonewalling, silent treatment, and painting someone black is all the same thing... .they don't like you.  They don't want you in their lives.  

Actually, no two of those four terms are "the same thing," and none of them necessarily means "they don't want you in their lives."

This is complicated stuff. Banging on it with a cinderblock of angry words won't make it yield to understanding. But to take one very very simple case:

You can read thousands of examples in the boards of people who have been "painted black" by someone who does not go away but instead sticks around to harass, berate, tease, and otherwise abuse them. So obviously they have not been ghosted by the person who painted them black.

I believe what you are trying to say is that the upshot for you is the same--i.e. the person is still not contacting you. You have asked over and over for an explanation for that fact. One possible explanation is that she has painted you black. Go look at any of the many resources available on the site if you want a clearer definition of that term. If not, state clearly and respectfully what it is you want, and these kind souls will try to help.

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C.Stein
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« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2016, 10:07:19 AM »

I'm smart enough to know that ghosting, stonewalling, silent treatment, and painting someone black is all the same thing... .they don't like you.  They don't want you in their lives.  

If I may quote you J525.

You're having a tough time reading my posts

I highly recommend reading the threads I posted links to in order to shed some light on your confusion of the painting black issue.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2016, 10:09:19 AM »

Why did she stonewall me? Simple question.
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« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2016, 10:10:59 AM »

Why did she stonewall me? Simple question.

Simple answer, one of the consequences of her splitting which is part of her sickness.
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« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2016, 10:13:09 AM »

An answer is she hates me.  She did it by stonewalling, same result as painting someone black, or the silent treatment, or even ghosting, the difference are so minute, that is silly to argue over.  The point is in this entire thing, is your exBPD wants nothing to do with you, they hate you.  :)oes it really matter why?  

If you already have the answers then what exactly are you looking for here?  Why does any of this matter to you 3 years later?  You haven't had answers for 3 years, why do you need them now?  

You aren't going to get the answers you seek, this is a hard truth you simply have to accept.  There is nothing you can say or do that will change this simple fact.  Find a way to give yourself closure and move forward with you life.
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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2016, 10:16:05 AM »

Sending definitions is not needed, I have college degree and know that you folks are disputing minute definitions, the overall result is your gone. bye bye.  If someone paints someone black and that person sticks around for the abuse, then that is not just the BPD, the victim is also some sort of PD as normal people don't put up with that.  Lastly, they hate you no matter what your definition or classification is, they don't like you.

Many people who are given the silent treatment, ghosting, stonewalled, or painted black... .stood up to the BPD, didn't take the bait.  :)idn't kiss butt, which is what people have done all their lives. Protect the BPD, they're victims.  So they built a wall, or shut you out.  I never told her off, just told her she is wrong about things.
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« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2016, 10:16:19 AM »

Why did she stonewall me? Simple question.

I thought you had determined the answer to be that she hates you.  I am confused why you are asking again after having provided the answer.  Is that answer unsatisfactory?  Is it that no answer is satisfactory?  Help us to understand what you are looking for here.  The clinical answer has been given numerous times in other threads and you have rejected it as a textbook answer, so there seems no need to go over that again.  What answer are you looking for?
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« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2016, 10:17:06 AM »

Why did she stonewall me? Simple question.

Merriam-webster:

Stonewall: to refuse or fail to answer questions, to do what has been requested, etc., especially in order to delay or prevent something ( chiefly US )

Your question presupposes that she is "trying to delay or prevent something," which does not sound accurate to me.

I think what you mean is why did she cut you out of her life. We can only speculate. I'm sorry if you don't like speculation, but what other option is there? We can't interrogate her, and even if we could, she might not tell the truth, and very likely she does not know the truth herself.

Long ago and far away I suggested that she (like my ex) might have an avoidant streak. She might be steering clear of you for the very simple reason that you remind her of unpleasant things. Note that one needn't have a PD to do this.

If you want an explanation based on what's known about BPD, then look seriously into the meaning of painting black. It is a maladaptive defense against unbearable emotions.

Is your question about what those emotions might be? Again, only speculation is possible. But something in your relationship possibly caused her to associate you with feelings of self-loathing, fears about being enveloped against her will, etc.

You knew her. Not us. What do you think?

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Jonathan Ricciardi
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« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2016, 10:25:32 AM »

Ok folks you win, she didn't stonewall me.  She gave me the silent treatment for 3 years, but I was told by moderators on this board, that is no longer silent treatment, so it isn't that.  Splitting me black is not the reason as I did nothing that would make her have negative emotional experiences by thinking of me.  That is silly.  I treated her well.
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« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2016, 10:25:58 AM »

Sending definitions is not needed, I have college degree and know that you folks are disputing minute definitions, the overall result is your gone. bye bye.  If someone paints someone black and that person sticks around for the abuse, then that is not just the BPD, the victim is also some sort of PD as normal people don't put up with that.  Lastly, they hate you no matter what your definition or classification is, they don't like you.

Many people who are given the silent treatment, ghosting, stonewalled, or painted black... .stood up to the BPD, didn't take the bait.  :)idn't kiss butt, which is what people have done all their lives. Protect the BPD, they're victims.  So they built a wall, or shut you out.  I never told her off, just told her she is wrong about things.

Splitting is what mental illness do to people.

All other expressions can be used more generally including people who have no mental illness.


I wouldn't say we discuss minute definitions. Different terms exist to be sure we understand each other.

Polychrome doesn't mean multicolored.

If everyone starts using their own definition then we end up in a thread like this one where we don't know what you are actually looking for.

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