Do relationships ever achieve stability?

[w9isgrate]

I made a post on here and nobody responded, maybe it was too lengthy to read. I was reading some other posts, which sound very similar to my situation, and most posts tend to show negative outcomes (relationship ends). Are there ever good outcomes? I have a difficulty completely believing my wife has BPD, although all the evidence screams it, and I dont want to believe it. I guess I want to be hopeful. I want her to get better. I want to love her again. It is so agonizing.

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[tryingsome]

There is a Success story thread at the top of the 'improving' section.

And yes, I think you can make a BPD relationship work. It can have some very high strengths.

The question on success is really what you want out of the relationship.

Even with all the help and tools, most people find a BPD relationship lacking and hence the relationship ends.

As long as you are clear on what the relationship can and will ever be, then you can proceed if this is something you want to continue.

For me, the constant lying was a deal breaker.

I could manage the rages and the dysregulation.

I just couldn't handle the the lies and as such the lack of trust the spawned from that; it was just something I needed.

And it was something should not could not give.

Other people might see this as a minor point.

[Stalwart]

Hey W9:

It's been some time since I've been on here. A sabbatical to read.

I'm sorry to hear no one responded to your first post as it may have probably answered a lot.

There are success stories W9, if that is the answer you're looking for. I suppose I could say after years of dealing with this in the dark and now four years of being able to shine light on the illness and our relationship I could certainly say given most definitions of a 'stable' relationship I suppose I can attest to that.

It depends entirely on what your definition of 'stable' is; and what you feel is missing from your relationship with your wife as to what expectations can come out of that? I'm not certain there is a 'better' either W9, but I know there can be great improvements made on the parts of both people and a relationship in it's entirety as well. I'm not entirely certain if 'better' means cured and 'perfect' as a person or a wife or a lover, but heck, how many folks out there live a perfect life in every sense of it?


"You want to love here again?" What stopped you, or continues to stop you, from loving her now?

I think in the beginning we all have doubts about our spouses being 100% BPD and that's probably because no one is. Probably no one fits all nine categories and with comorbidities and our own lack of understanding and knowledge of what we see in  front of us sometimes it is difficult to accept a situation, particularly when it's undiagnosed or validated by professionals.

Although my wife is diagnosed and goes for treatment, (the correct diagnosis and treatment now) I'm really not certain a diagnosis was really ever needed. Even if a person reveals like-tendencies; the same solutions to bringing some type of sense or harmony still apply.

You can be hopeful W9 depending on exactly what you're hoping for. It was my experience that my own hope came not from just 'hoping' but knuckling down and doing the hard work in learning how to change myself to better adapt and in doing so I also found a person who was a lot more empathetic to others, wiser and more aware of other's emotions and feelings and most of all by changing myself was able to clear a path to better change the dynamics in our relationship to improve them for both of us.

[EmotionalWarfare]

Hi W9,

I'll second what Stalwart said.  It's a journey and it's certainly something you will need to commit to.  It's best to try and accept what you can change and what you can not.  Then work on what you can change.  (mainly yourself, your behavior, your way of defining the interactions with your wife internally, your way of communication, become more validating, pay more attention to the structure of the conversation and less to the actual content, and most of all stop invalidating and JADEing)  I promise it will pay off.  Is it fair? No.  Should you have to do all the changing? No.  Will it get better if you don't change? No.  My relationship with my uBPDw has improved greatly since adopting a better mindset, using better communication better suited for pwBPD, stopping JADEing(as best as I can), I do my best to listen, and identify what is at the root of my wife's words, not what the words she is saying means but rather what's driving this, Where is it coming from, what can I validate, where do I need to set boundaries.  All of this has helped us.  You just need to try a new approach.  If it makes things better, great.  If not, you're no worse off than you are now.  Good Luck my friend!  It's not easy but with time it becomes easier and easier.  Things will improve.

[ColdEthyl]

I kind of want to say that with BPD, you won't ever really achieve "stability", because they are not stable internally. You can improve. You can work on. You can reduce the dysregulations in both duration and frequency, but some of this with always be here, because BPD is.

With that being said, my own marriage has improved quite a bit since I've been here and applying the lessons. We have our ups and downs, but that can be found in every relationship.

[an0ught]

Hi w9isgrate,


I've given up on stability. Since then life has been more stable.  

Living with a pwBPD brings some instability. They truly struggle on that account. Our partners are not the only sources of instability in our lives however.

These days I spend my energy on stabilizing myself. I limit the impact of problematic decisions of my wife but mostly I let her and only point out when she is heading into bigger trouble. Some people learn slower and only be personal experience.

When I stumble she is there and helps me up. It is not a one way street.

There are some at times overwhelming strong external forces pulling at us and these days I think together we are handling them better than we would be standing alone.


It took years to get to this place. Some learning by her. Some learning by me. One was a mind shift with respect to stability and a better understanding of my need for control.

[Stalwart]

I think anOught, Cold Ethyl and Emotional Warfare have covered it pretty well.

Stability given a constant really isn't something I think can be achieved. It's my experience that there are still bad days when she is anxious or really feels empty as well as interactions with others that affect my wife (and in turn affect our relationship) only because it distracts from stability and serves as a reminder that there probably never will be true peace.

I really don't know how many other relationships truly achieve peace either. Life has a way of ensuring that stability is challenged with or without an illness those challenges aggravate even worse.

It's about learning, understanding and empathizing with the triggers when something pulls back the hammer on the gun and aims it our directions. I know in advance if my wife is getting over her head or intends to walk into something that will be too challenging for her. I don't stop her although from time to time I remind her when she's wading in that it might be difficult. The best I can do after that is help her through the inevitable problems that will come out of it.

She's better at walking away herself now and one thing for certain from the old days she values what I have to say when she finds herself in trouble. There are times when she actually parrots the lessons I talk about and they affect her reactions and her reactions in a positive way. There are always small and sometimes big things that bring about hope of better tomorrows. Hope doesn't come on it's own simply out of hoping it will, hope is the result of the actions we take and see them as being affective.

Once you can both work your ways past the agonizing and settle into the occasional frustrating instead  it becomes better - almost stable.  

[JQ]

Hello W9,

I see your new here with less then a handful of post so let me be one of the first to say hi     You ask some questions that a lot of people are here have asked before on their journey of self discovery. I went back and read your 3 post and I want to say that I'm sorry to hear about what you're going through but I'm glad you found this site.  I would encourage you to read not only the posts within this group, but also the references at the top and to the right of the page here -------------------->> >> >> >>

Here you'll find no one judging you ... .just some friends who have been or are going through what you have. We can't and won't tell you what to do or say on your journey ... .this is your journey to walk. What we can do is to let you know what has worked or didn't work for us and or our experiences. On your journey of self discovery you will stumble ... .someone here will be there to hold out a hand, help you up, dust you off and straighten you up. It's then up to YOU to decide what is next ... .you can continue down your path that your currently going on ... .take the path to the right & see where that goes or you can sit right back down where you're at and do nothing. The choices have always been yours to make and are still YOURS to make.

It's good to hear that you're going to a MC and a therapist to help you with your emotions, feelings, and thoughts of this confused world of BPD that you've found yourself in. First thing you need to learn about BPD is that it is a Very Serious Cluster B Mental Illness that affects the frontal cortex of the brain that controls in part behavior, impulse control, etc.  A recent TV show I watched showed MRI studies on brains that had Cluster A & B mental illness against a controlled "normal" brain. It showed that the one with mental illness actually had less neuro connections or hubs in the brain then the "normal" brain in the frontal cortex where behavior is developed from childhood. Then add to that the trauma of abuse in some way shape or form and the BPD is already challenged to learning social norms. 

As you've pointed out some Ph.d's & therapist will cancel further counseling sessions because of the difficulty in treating the mental illness, this isn't uncommon. In some cases the BPD will walk out and stop going to their therapist because they are called out by the therapist on their behavior and the BPD feels betrayed or a host of other emotions. My exBPDgf has been in & out of therapy for over 25 years with multiple Ph.d's & therapist for reasons mentioned. Has it helped?  Well depends on what you defined as "helped". She continues to have in her words, "sexual triangles" & can't guarantee that she won't have one on me, "one of my hard set boundaries". She continues to rage, spending issues, massive debts, and a gambit of other stereo typical behaviors associated with BPD.  She is self aware, but our break up would certainly indicate that there is a long way to go in order to get better management of the mental illness. NOTICED I said "managed" because with BPD there is no "cure" for BPD because of the physical limitations within the brain previously discussed.

Nothing about BPD has or will make sense to you ... .it defy's logic so don't try to. There are 3 C's to BPD ... .YOU didn't Cause it!  YOU can't Control it!  You can't Cure it! I was uneducated arrogant in the beginning to believe that if I showed her how much I loved her, cared for her that I somehow would break through ... ."love does NOT conquer all".  AS someone points out ... .you can't fix/cure her but you can "manage" YOUR responses to her behavior if you intend to continue with your relationship.  AS a clinical physiologist told me, they, "the BPD" will forever be the 3 yr old toddler when it comes to behavior and I was always going to have to be the "adult" in the relationship.

I had to learn about myself and why I was attracted to the BPD behavior and I found out due to the household I grew up with a BPD mom and an absent alcoholic father that created a codependent behavior within myself. And like an overwhelming amount of people here on this site they are codependent or recovering codependents. There is a book called, "The Human Magnet Syndrome" that in short discusses this "natural attraction of BPD & codependent behavior" like that of a magnet N & S attract each other regardless how chaotic & dysfunctional it might be. SO since I can't "Control" or "Cure" her I had to learn how about codependency and adjust my behavior ... .which fortunately we're quite capable doing since it's not a mental illness but behavior modification. Like others here it's a continuous work in progress ... .but I've pretty happy with the results so far. for example I can say no to my BPDmother when she lets her flying monkey's out of their cages and expects me to put them back in.

To answer you're question, "How do I try and show her BPD issue while not attacking her and posing it in the most constructive light possible." Trying to get someone with BPD to go to therapy is like trying to get an alcoholic to go to AA. Unless they "WANT" too go they won't and they still need to "WANT" to continue to go to therapy and by most professionals the best you can hope to achieve is "management of the chaos".

I know what you're going through is the most difficult challenge of your life, all you want to do is love & care for your BPD with all that you have but their mental illness has other designs. You'll have to learn a whole new language as you're probably aware of, triangulation, gas lighting, push / pull, painted black, painted white, deregulation, projection. You'll have to learn validation ... .a whole new way to communicate ... .again the most challenging part of your new life.

You describe a lot of the same behaviors as my exBPDgf with over $50k in debt to family members, credit cards maxed, paying bills late along with a host of other things. Her ex-husband finally had enough and decided to divorce her & get his kids to a "normal household" for at least 1/2 of every month. She's talked of suicide more then once, and has "accidents" all the time. And like your wife she was sexually, mentally, emotionally and physically abused at home by 2 family members, raped in college and has had a history of unstable relationships, still has multiple relationships & now 2 ex-husbands. My therapist told me that she is permanently broken and any hope for her is to someday with a lot of therapy to have a semi-normal life ... .if that is even possible.

Some here will continue to work towards a better relationship ... .and I wish them all the luck in the world ... .but you really need to use the 51% rule. YOU need to take care of YOU first because no one else will do it ... .especially a BPD. YOU have to use 51% of your mental & physical energy to take care of you ... .the rest of the 49% can be divided up between your BPD wife, your kids, your job, your house, your life outside of work. And if you go below that 51% ... .then eventually you will succumb to mental & physical exhaustion.

I want to say I really commend you for reaching out and asking the questions you're asking. That you're in therapy and MC to improve not only your marriage but yourself. Remember with your wife being BPD, your children are going to need you even more!

Be sure you're taking care of yourself ... .be sure to get out for a walk ... .a mile before you get ready for work on a bad day will take you less then 20 minutes so don't say you don't have time. take you're kids out to a movie on the weekend or for those walks when your wife is out doing whatever it is she's doing. This will help you bond with your kids and everyone gets to release some stress. Be sure you're getting enough rest aka sleep because REM sleep is required to heal the mind and body.  Maybe some therapy for your kids isn't a bad idea to help them sort through their feelings and emotions ... .because they see & hear what is going on with you two ... .they need to have things explained to them by a professional and how to sort out their feelings.

As Stalwart & the others have said ... .stability & BPD are never used in the same sentence ... .it just isn't. As Stalwart says you're going to have to learn about triggers and which ones she has and how to react or NOT react to them.  Learn about validation, setting boundaries & sticking to them.

Come back as often as you need to but more importantly as often as you WANT to and let us know how you doing, ask questions and vent ... .it's somewhat therapeutic at times to explain what your feeling ... .embrace the journey you're on ... .

J