My BPD Ex (?) Contacted Me

[Depression = 72% of members]

I was thinking that she was done with me as she hadn't made any attempt at contact in a week. Today I checked my phone and behold: She called and left a voicemail. She said she was "just checking in on me" to see how I was doing and asking me to give her a call. I'm (at least for now) planning on maintaining NC. but I honestly don't know what I'll do. Maybe this is an anomaly and hopefully she won't contact me if I ignore her.

[aristan2000]

I was thinking that she was done with me as she hadn't made any attempt at contact in a week. Today I checked my phone and behold: She called and left a voicemail. She said she was "just checking in on me" to see how I was doing and asking me to give her a call. I'm (at least for now) planning on maintaining NC. but I honestly don't know what I'll do. Maybe this is an anomaly and hopefully she won't contact me if I ignore her.

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[aristan2000]

She called twice yesterday and left a voicemail the first time. Then last night I fell asleep and woke up to a barrage of text messages from her. They started with "Everything Ok?" a few moments later "Fine whatever" then later "if you don't want to talk, just say so" then later "I won't bother you again" and that lead to (after maybe one more such message) "Well, goodbye forever. I ended breaking NC and texted her back that I never said "goodbye forever" and not to jump to conclusions. I screwed up, she got me. Perhaps she'll have been so insulted that she'll not contact me back. Maybe it's a good thing!

[Notwendy]

Well, who knows, but I bet not. She learned that doing this (ignoring you and than ramping up the messages, and then the " well goodbye forever!"  works. Look at "extinction burst" as well as the power of intermittent reinforcement, which also works on us, as we can jump through hoops just to get something we want.

Yes, she got you, but she can only get you if you are willing to be gotten by her. This one is on you. While you are possibly hoping that she will be so insulted that she doesn't contact you again, your ability and decision to not be contacted is with you. If you do not want contact, you can choose to not respond at all, no matter what, or block her number.

Maybe you aren't sure or are ambivalent. Where you are is where you are, but leaving the decision of the relationship up to her is doing just that.

[Notwendy]

Also - the lessons here are very helpful - look at JADE- which is what happened when you texted back to defend the accusation.

And be good to yourself. Learning this takes time and practice and you can do it. You took the drama bait, but also know that, if we can point it out, it is because we did it too ( and sometimes still slip up). The lessons, learning how to avoid stepping into the drama, are really helpful lessons, even regardless of being in a relationship or not.

One way to reply, if you did want to continue the relationship, but not JADE, would be to text something like " hi, yes, everything is OK, hope you are too". If you do not, you could ignore it, or make a clear statement that you have decided to not be in a relationship with her and you wish her well. Then, do not respond further to messages.

[aristan2000]

She hasn't responded yet, so maybe she meant it when she said good bye. I hope so, part of me does anyways!

[Notwendy]

I think that no more needs to be said on your part. The question is - how or if you will respond to the next attempt if she does. Looking at the extinction burst, it starts with a a behavior and that behavior amplifies until there is a  response. Your responding after she sent numerous texts, reinforced that sending multiple texts and the bait- an accusation that you said goodbye forever- worked- because you texted back to defend that you didn't.

This is a very typical pattern for people in relationships with pwBPD. However, the only part of this pattern that we can change is our side of it. Yes, great if she doesn't respond, but the ball is in your court if she does. What will you do?

[aristan2000]

I think that no more needs to be said on your part. The question is - how or if you will respond to the next attempt if she does. Looking at the extinction burst, it starts with a a behavior and that behavior amplifies until there is a  response. Your responding after she sent numerous texts, reinforced that sending multiple texts and the bait- an accusation that you said goodbye forever- worked- because you texted back to defend that you didn't.

This is a very typical pattern for people in relationships with pwBPD. However, the only part of this pattern that we can change is our side of it. Yes, great if she doesn't respond, but the ball is in your court if she does. What will you do?

To be totally honest, I don't know. I'm so besotted by her! My logic and emotions are in two very different places.

[Lucky Jim]

Looking at the extinction burst, it starts with a a behavior and that behavior amplifies until there is a  response. Your responding after she sent numerous texts, reinforced that sending multiple texts and the bait- an accusation that you said goodbye forever- worked- because you texted back to defend that you didn't.

Well put, Notwendy.  Right, a pwBPD will raise the ante until he/she elicits a response.  Getting a response alleviates their inner pain and/or fear of abandonment.

Agree, the ball is in your court, artisan, yet it sounds like you have mixed emotions, which is OK.

LuckyJim

[aristan2000]

Looking at the extinction burst, it starts with a a behavior and that behavior amplifies until there is a  response. Your responding after she sent numerous texts, reinforced that sending multiple texts and the bait- an accusation that you said goodbye forever- worked- because you texted back to defend that you didn't.

Well put, Notwendy.  Right, a pwBPD will raise the ante until he/she elicits a response.  Getting a response alleviates their inner pain and/or fear of abandonment.

Agree, the ball is in your court, artisan, yet it sounds like you have mixed emotions, which is OK.

LuckyJim

I do have mixed emotion. I'm telling myself she may just have some BPD traits that are brought on by her current stress. I think though that those who have read my depiction of her behavior probably have no doubt that she is likely BPD, even though we can't diagnose her per se. The last time we had a separation, it went from her ignoring me somewhat because I declined a favor. Withing twenty minutes, I apologized to her and soon thereafter I was sitting on the floor subserviently massaging her feet. She plays me like a piano! 

[Lucky Jim]

Withing twenty minutes, I apologized to her and soon thereafter I was sitting on the floor subserviently massaging her feet. She plays me like a piano!

Well that's common, artisan, and most of us Nons have done our share of apologizing.  In my view, those w/BPD are experts at arm twisting, which is why she can play on your emotions so easily.  It helps if you can pay close attention when you sense that you are being manipulated by Fear, Obligation or Guilt.  I used to get a gut feeling about being under stress, which was a good indicator that I was being subjected to manipulation (and which I usually disregarded, by the way).  Still, I think on some level you know when someone is pulling your chain.  It's about learning to pause and think, and respond authentically, instead of reacting to the pressure being applied by the pwBPD.

LuckyJim

[Notwendy]

I guess one thing to ask yourself is what is making you besotted. Is it who she is or the highs of the relationship- when things are good, the idealization. Is it the highs and lows of the drama- the longing and thinking about her when she ignores you to the thrill of being with her? Are the highs worth the lows? On one hand, you can feel great with her, the next, down in the dumps.

The answers to this are your answers, whatever they are. You can also learn to work on your side of this through the lessons. If she plays you like a piano, you still have a choice to be the piano or not.

[aristan2000]

Well. after my first text to her that morning, I sent her another one at 9 AM saying "I'm not ignoring you." At around 2:45 PM I was driving past her house and noticed her car there. As soon as I got back home about five minutes later, I broke down and called her. We talked for about 40 minutes or so. She told me that she was being promoted at work to a 'checkout coach' and that made me furious! I'd worked the same job and at the same level of performance and never was offered a promotion in sixteen months and here she was getting promoted after 4 months! The Narcissist rage in me is still in full bloom now almost a day later. Obviously this is something that is not right with me and I need to find out what's behind such raging jealousy. I resent the company so much. I basically told her that she would probably fail as a coach as she's too anxious and stressed. Her son asked if I could get cannabis and she also mentioned in conversation that she may want to partake too and we made tentative plans to do so. I ended up dropping off a fresh refrigerated pizza that was ready-to-bake. I got a few free from my workplace so I offered to drop off one. So, we ended up seeing each other for the first time in 3 weeks. The flirtations and innuendos re-started, but I think with a bit more caution. She basically told me to go get her a coffee and I did just that taking her son with me. We hung out some more after I returned and finally we had to both leave as I had to get dinner ready and she suggested I take her son with me. He had dinner with us and later when his Mom hadn't shown up, we ended up smoking cannabis a bit. We ended up just sitting on the couch watching a movie on my computer, when I realized he seemed to be having a rough time. At the same time his mom texted and said that her youngest son was having "an issue" and didn't want to come over. Her older son asked for me to have his mom pick him up and she said to have him "wait outside" which I thought was a little odd, because usually she just knocks on the door. I told him I'd help him outside as he was having anxiety. We went outside and finally an unfamiliar (to me) car pulled up and she was in the passenger side front next to this guy Harry who had previously met her three weeks earlier and they had discussed me with his opinion that I was "using her" to be a "mom to my kids." He then apparently declared his love for her. He is presently dealing with  some kind of restraining order from his ex fiance. Anyways, I see her and him and I discreetly walk back inside my home home, no indication of anger or anything, just a desire to not have interaction at the moment. After that, I had a very hard time getting to sleep. I was raging about her promotion and it really pisses me off. I know that this reaction isn't "normal" per se and I don't really know where it's coming from! Anyway, we texted briefly around midnight. I made no mention of Harry and didn't ask her for any explanation as to what they are up to. I don't own her. The next morning she called and we talked briefly. She told me that Harry's son had stolen her son's iPod and that there were some problems. I avoided say anything critical of Harry and basically didn't say much at all outside of being supportive and listening. She mentioned (at least twice) that Harry has been a family friend for many years. Again, I said nothing about him and remained friendly to her. She said she had to get to work and that she'd be done at 11:45 AM. I mentioned I was not working today and that if she was bored later to give me a call. Obviously, I screwed up the NC thing totally. Does any of this make her sound BPD? Did I read too much into things?

[Fr4nz]

Man, if you can go back to NC immediately.

[aristan2000]

Man, if you can go back to NC immediately.

I'm not sure if she is BPD though.

[aristan2000]

What I mean to say is that she has undeniably BPD characteristics, but I am wondering if I am misreading her actions as BPD. Does the fact that she may show signs of BPD evidence that she is. Out of curiosity, what do people think based on her actions?

[zeus123]

artisan 2000, if she was a BPD you should stay away from her and go NC. and if she is not a BPD you should stay away from her and forget her, she told you already goodbye forever that means you are out.

[Notwendy]

At this point, you know enough about her to decide on a relationship with or without a label. The condition of BPD is broad, from mild to severe and even within this range, how it manifests itself depends on the person. You can decide based on the behaviors you see.

So IMHO, this woman is being inconsistent with you. Tells you one thing, then does another. She may or may not be seeing other men. She has lied to you, shared your personal sexual information with her son, is an inconsistent parent, and ... .the poor kid has anxiety. You using her to be a mom to your kids? It looks to me like she was using you to watch her kid. Oh and to get her coffee, and weed had she joined you.

As to her job, does she know that this is the promotion you wanted? I would be willing to bet this isn't the truth either. Just a hunch here.

Do you enjoy going to get her coffee and pizza, watching her son while she is out with another guy?

Because, this is who she is, and if you want her, then this is the relationship you have.

[aristan2000]

artisan 2000, if she was a BPD you should stay away from her and go NC. and if she is not a BPD you should stay away from her and forget her, she told you already goodbye forever that means you are out.

Zeuz123, I'm not out with her at the moment, but who knows what will happen next? She actually said "Good bye forever" in response to her thinking I was repeatedly ignoring her (I was actually sleeping). It was more of an emotional melodramatic comment to elicit a response from me. After calling her, we did spend time together and were mildly physically affectionate.

[aristan2000]

At this point, you know enough about her to decide on a relationship with or without a label. The condition of BPD is broad, from mild to severe and even within this range, how it manifests itself depends on the person. You can decide based on the behaviors you see.

So IMHO, this woman is being inconsistent with you. Tells you one thing, then does another. She may or may not be seeing other men. She has lied to you, shared your personal sexual information with her son, is an inconsistent parent, and ... .the poor kid has anxiety. You using her to be a mom to your kids? It looks to me like she was using you to watch her kid. Oh and to get her coffee, and weed had she joined you.

As to her job, does she know that this is the promotion you wanted? I would be willing to bet this isn't the truth either. Just a hunch here.

Do you enjoy going to get her coffee and pizza, watching her son while she is out with another guy?

Because, this is who she is, and if you want her, then this is the relationship you have.

Notwendy, it had occurred to me that maybe she and Harry are having sex, but she claims they are just friends, but yes, it's odd and the second time she has essentially blown me off to spend time with him. Apparently he has been a friend of her family for quite some time. He apparently was supportive when her son's father died and nobody would help them. He was there with his son and she did have her younger son with her (as before) I'm guessing that no hanky panky was had. His son did steal her son's iPad and I guess she actually told him that she'd get the cops on him, but I don't think it's an incredibly huge issue here.  

Anything that will now happen will essentially be in her court, but if I get emotionally broadsided again, this time it'll be nobody's fault but mine.


I think she is telling the truth about the promotion, given that the place has so few people who take their jobs seriously and she is probably the hardest worker there despite her stress level.

The whole promotion thing though has kicked off some rage/angry jealousy with me. I think it made my narcissistic qualities kick in, but I'd still be upset had someone else who had just started there had been moved up so quickly when I wasn't even considered for the position. I have so much rage about this that I've had violent revenge fantasies and lost sleep over it last night.

I don't know what to do and I know I need help as my narcissism is probably heightened by her apparent BPD. I have, in the past, flown in hateful fits of anger over relatively mild provocation and it goes from zero to 190 MPH per hour! I need to get this in check and that's more important than whatever relationship I have with her or anyone right now. I'm a bit frightened about losing control and I really have little faith in conventional talk therapy


My game plan with her is relatively simple: Do not initiate contact, wait for her to contact me. Say nothing about her friend or whom she choose to hang out with. If I don't like it, I can leave it. If she wants to be with me and I want that, it's on her terms. She may very well be monogamous, but I certainly understand the skepticism.

If it's to work, and it looks problematic still, she also needs limits set on her more egregious behavior.

[aristan2000]

She called this afternoon and did mention that she knew Harry had a sexual interest in her, but that she didn't want to be in a relationship with him. One reason was that she knew he was simply lonely and another being that he was/is friends with her son's father and that it would seem to be a betrayal. I did chime in that a man in his late thirties being interested in a woman almost 50 was suspect (I don't actually believe this in many cases, but given his dysfunctional relationships with women: His kid's mother was a junkie or something who he got custody from and his last relationship apparently ended with restraining orders and a pending court date, I don't put simply wanting sex and a thrill conquest with a slightly older woman past this guy). She seems to be continually trying to convince me there is nothing going on with him. If she did have him, why would she still be bothering with me?

[aristan2000]

I also just realized that I wasn't among the reasons she wouldn't be with Harry. I fear an extended, sexless exercise in pointlessness! I may be wrong. I still don't like that she had that man pull in front of my house, but maybe that couldn't be helped.

[Fr4nz]

aristan,

what about dating other women? I don't mean that you should "use" other ladies; instead, you should find other women who are consistent and emotionally sane. You should let her go, nothing good may come from her... .

[aristan2000]

aristan,

what about dating other women? I don't mean that you should "use" other ladies; instead, you should find other women who are consistent and emotionally sane. You should let her go, nothing good may come from her... .

I know, but is it a given that she is a hopeless BPD and there is no possibility of this working? She did have two long term relationships: one for 20 years, her last serious one for 10. Her first relationship was with an abusive man who put her in the hospital at least once and died of a heroin overdose the day after he left prison. The second long term relationship had no physical violence, but verbal abuse. I'm taking this a day at a time and if she doesn't call, I won't. The ball is in her court.

[aristan2000]

Things have gotten even crazier since I broke NC with her last week. We had a fairly normal phone conversation on Saturday and then I heard nothing from her until Tuesday when I got the following text message (She did attempt to phone me immediately before this btw.) : "I hear your (sic) getting evicted." Well months ago I was on the cusp of being evicted before working it out with my landlord (we now have a payment agreement and I have paid off about a quarter of what I owe already) and she knew all about that. It seems someone is gossiping about me. I did call her that evening and she refused to tell me who said this. I mentioned contacting her HR department and making them talk to her and that caused a brief argument. Then today, I was driving home when I saw her son walking from the area of my home. I asked if he needed a ride and he became very nervous and said he would walk home, which I found really odd as it was staring to lightly rain. Anyways later, I noticed my weed and one of my anxiety meds were gone, so I ended calling her up and she of course accused me of blaming her son. Her older son denied it and her younger son (10 years old) told her that my son (11) is intimidating him on the school bus and I talked to my son who became upset. Then she told me Harry was ripping her off and hadn't paid her for the pills she sold him and that he's her "ex friend." I asked her to get me some klonopin and she said she'd bring it over. About a half hour later she showed up, we went inside, she showed me what looked to be some full prescription bottles of pills to show me that her son would not have needed to stolen my meds. She was there for about a minute in a half. She seemed a bit dressed up, as if she might be going somewhere (it was only about 8 PM). She said she was leaving and had to go home to get sleep. I was faced towards her a bit, but I decided not to try to initiate physical contact as I sensed she did not want this and I certainly didn't need an ego-crushing moment of rejection right now.  I checked her Facebook from my other account and she is still FB friends with Harry, but also interestingly she just friended Harry's estranged ex-fiancee, the one he says is "psychotic." That fact that she friended this person who is so adversarial to him really makes me wonder how deep or serious this relationship was. If he just stiffed her on money for pills, befriending a woman who is taking him to court seems like overkill' I feel like this whole situation is just insane.

This time I really do think that the latest episode may just result in her ceasing to contact me. She seemed as if she wanted to just get it over with when she saw me and she was doing this because she knew deep down that her son did this.

It just seems as if every single time she initiates contact (and right now, I rarely initiate contact, breaking that rule only for incidents like the break-in of last night!) it's negative in tone. It's either "I heard you're talking crap' or the phony eviction claim or in response to this latest insane incident.