How to say I'm not discussing it anymore?

[apepper21]

My pwBPD once again ended things 2 weeks ago and for the first time ever I've been able to say no, I'm not trying again. I have had to do so multiple times over the two weeks and obviously each time he gets mad all over again.

We work together, in a very small company. I am having a very hard time, when he "corners" me to say I'm not talking about it. I'm having a hard time just not replying to emails about us. He was waiting in the parking lot last Friday and I wasn't able to say I'm not discussing this.

Does anyone have tips for learning how to be able to say I'm not discussing this, and how to become able to not reply to emails (when I know I have to see him)?

[Lonely_Astro]

I also work with my ex, who's diagnosed BPD.  Mine isn't a 'chaser', per se.  But, this is how I've dealt with things in the past:

Emails are work related only.  If she said something personal in nature, I wouldn't address it.  I would reply to the work portion and that's it.

If she sent me a text, I would only acknowledge it if it was ' neutral'. What I mean is if she said something like "I hope you have a good day," I would reply with "thanks".  If she asked me how I was doing, I'd say fine or ok.  If you choose to respond, keep it neutral, not emotional.  With BPDs, you have to walk a tightrope of acknowledging their existence (fear of abandonment) and keeping yourself in a safe place of being 'out of' the r/s. Eventually, they'll find a new source (as they need constant stimulation) and 'move on' from you.

My ex wanted to stay engaged with me, which kept me confused, even when she had a new bf. Apparently this new bf (who also works with us) knows everything yet I knew nothing.  Basically J was keeping me as a satellite in case she needed/wanted me later.  The new guy is to blind to see this... .if he actually knows anything at all. I had a chance the other day to tell him I was talking to J and that if I had known he was with her, I wouldn't have.  I didn't do this for dramatic purposes, I did it in case I had to work closer to him in the future and I didn't want his only notion of me being what J had told him.  As soon as I found out about the two of them, I ceased contact with J.  That very day she had reached out to me to "check on me".  Do you see how confusing that can be?  I wasn't the one who wanted the r/s to end, like many of us, and I was susceptible to the idea of her acting like a 'normal' adult at the end of a r/s (i.e., talking it over, reconciling, etc). But, it was a dual life for her... .sort of.  She still absolved herself of any wrong doing when I confronted her about being with L while hinting to me she wanted another go around. That's a different story for a different time.

Working with your ex is tough.  Even more so in your situation.  The best thing you can do is tell him like you've been telling him that you understand why he feels the way he does but that you aren't going to discuss the matter any further.  If he escalates his contact, legal options will come into play... .lets hope it doesn't go there.

[apepper21]

Thanks Lonely_Astro.

Yes, it's hard to keep it neutral. When I do, he will write or say something like "you don't have any comment about xxx" (anything he's said about us)? Or "do you even care i wrote that?"

I feel like I have to be depressed around other people if he is present or else he will be mad that I'm happy. Yet, of course, I'm sure he won't have any problem being happy in front of me, and will probably intentionally be happy with people who he think will get to me (ie: female coworkers). It's so angering and anxiety provoking at the same time. I have a really hard time concentrating at work, and that makes me even more anxious!

As for the legal options, are you saying to tell him that, or you are telling me, that if his contact escalates, to consider legal action?

thanks so much!

[Lonely_Astro]

Thanks Lonely_Astro.

Yes, it's hard to keep it neutral. When I do, he will write or say something like "you don't have any comment about xxx" (anything he's said about us)? Or "do you even care i wrote that?"

I feel like I have to be depressed around other people if he is present or else he will be mad that I'm happy. Yet, of course, I'm sure he won't have any problem being happy in front of me, and will probably intentionally be happy with people who he think will get to me (ie: female coworkers). It's so angering and anxiety provoking at the same time. I have a really hard time concentrating at work, and that makes me even more anxious!

As for the legal options, are you saying to tell him that, or you are telling me, that if his contact escalates, to consider legal action?

thanks so much!

One of the things you must come to terms with is to stop thinking "how will he respond to X?"  You aren't responsible for how he feels about X,Y, or Z.  Only you are responsible for you.  He was broken and survived long before you, he'll do the same long after you.  I wondered the same thing about J and you know what?  In the end, it didn't matter.  She had replaced me before we were officially over.  She's been to 2 different guys since that moment.  The newest is apparently her soulmate and she's "head over heels in love" with him.  Funny, she's that way with him but "forgot" to mention it to me when she was hinting that she wanted to be back in my life.  I say that to illustrate that you aren't responsible for his feelings/thoughts.  They'll survive, they're good at that.

My best advice is that if he text you something like you mentioned, ignore it.  Don't engage it. You've told him there's no more discussion about it, yet he presses.  This shows his lack of boundaries and as long as you engage him, he feels like he still has control (and he does). He wants an emotional response from you (stimuli).  If you need to reinforce the idea, tell him once more that you're done talking about it and future communication on the topic will be ignored.  He'll attempt it, I promise.

Detaching, for us, is the hard part.  I wanted to keep J in my orbit as much as I wanted her to keep me in hers. I kept getting hurt by that and finally had to stop it.  I made it clear to her that on a certain date, we'd cease communication on a personal level for 2 months.  That got broken, of course, because I wanted to. NC (no contact) is like a diet. Sometimes you eat 'bad' a day or two but overall it's ok.  You can't go truly NC because you work with him. So, go ELC (extremely low contact) to help yourself heal.  NC/ELC etc isn't punishment to them, it's a way to force yourself to heal.  It's hard and it will hurt like hell, but it's for the best if you are truly DNR/release with grace at this point.

I wouldn't threaten legal action toward him until it was time for it.  I was mentioning to you because each BPD is different.  Some violently stalk, others don't.  They're individuals and I can't tell you how yours will respond. Only you know that.  But if it gets to a harassment/stalking issue, that's when it's time to bring in the law.  And you have to decide when to do that.  One thing I haven't ever tolerated (nor would I) is the threat of physical violence from J.  She's never done it (she's an inward rage type), but she's capable of it.  If she had ever done that to me, I wouldn't have hesitated to have her thrown in jail.  I would expect the same from anyone if I physically assaulted them.  So, for now, I'd be mum on legal threats until it proceeds further, if it does.

[apepper21]

Lonely_Astro,

Thank you again, this is all very very helpful. I love that you said "One of the things you must come to terms with is to stop thinking "how will he respond to X?"  You aren't responsible for how he feels about X,Y, or Z.  Only you are responsible for you. "

I think I need to make that one of my mantras: Stop worrying about how he will respond. It is only keeping me attached, and it in the end it doesn't matter how he responds because that response is only temporary. AND he is not going to be looking out for MY feelings so I don't need to look out for his.

So J actually told you she found her new soulmate, and was trying to get back together with you? Man. How long have you been out of the relationship with her?

Yes, detaching is very hard. I am constantly thinking about him in one way or another. It makes my head hurt and very foggy and saps all of my energy. I'm reading about how it's not about HIM, and learning it's from my own insecurities and issues, yet it's still a process... .Was there anything in particular that helped you in the detaching process?

I like the diet analogy, and to remember that we aren't perfect in all of this and just b/c we have a slip doesn't mean we "eat the whole cake", we can start over again:)

I'm not considering legal anything right now, it's good to know it's an option though, thank you for explaining what you meant.

Thank you so much for sharing with me, this is so helpful. It is so so so much more helpful to have someone who's been through it/in it to discuss with in addition to reading about it. Reading about it doesn't address the "what do I do when xxxxxx... ." So thank you!

[Lonely_Astro]

Lonely_Astro,

Thank you again, this is all very very helpful. I love that you said "One of the things you must come to terms with is to stop thinking "how will he respond to X?"  You aren't responsible for how he feels about X,Y, or Z.  Only you are responsible for you. "

I think I need to make that one of my mantras: Stop worrying about how he will respond. It is only keeping me attached, and it in the end it doesn't matter how he responds because that response is only temporary. AND he is not going to be looking out for MY feelings so I don't need to look out for his.

So J actually told you she found her new soulmate, and was trying to get back together with you? Man. How long have you been out of the relationship with her?

Yes, detaching is very hard. I am constantly thinking about him in one way or another. It makes my head hurt and very foggy and saps all of my energy. I'm reading about how it's not about HIM, and learning it's from my own insecurities and issues, yet it's still a process... .Was there anything in particular that helped you in the detaching process?

I like the diet analogy, and to remember that we aren't perfect in all of this and just b/c we have a slip doesn't mean we "eat the whole cake", we can start over again:)

I'm not considering legal anything right now, it's good to know it's an option though, thank you for explaining what you meant.

Thank you so much for sharing with me, this is so helpful. It is so so so much more helpful to have someone who's been through it/in it to discuss with in addition to reading about it. Reading about it doesn't address the "what do I do when xxxxxx... ." So thank you!

The saga of J and I is a long one.  The short version is we were an item 4 years ago.  That lasted 4 months, she discarded me, I was heartbroken, and she found out she was BPD then.  We were practically NC, including work for 3 years.  We didn't speak outside of work and I think maybe in those 3 years I spoke 3-4 sentences total to her at work.  Practically not a day went by though that I didn't want to talk to her but knew I couldn't. 

A year ago we reconnected, as an affair.  We were both in troubled marriages and it started out as us being friends and confiding in each other.  She had told me, at the beginning, that she had been through DBT, was on meds, and just overall seemed more grounded and mature.  She talked openly and sincerely about the past and all that.  She appeared to be unbelievably different... .'better'.  One thing led to another and it became a full fledged affair, right or wrong, it happened. 

Fast forward to the end of 2015, it turned out she wasn't different at all.  She had lied to me about DBT, her marriage ending, and her fidelity to me.  During this past year, she had been linked to no less than 6 guys (including me).  Were they all physical?  No idea.  They were, at least, emotional.  I say all that because I want you to know I'm not a saint, I'm not fully innocent in all this.  I played a part in all this, even if my intentions with J were good.  I was misled in a lot of things with her, but I kept going with her on the hopes it was me being to hypersensitive to our past.  But, that wasn't it. 

Now, on to 2016.  We 'officially' ended in late December after she had put me in limbo in October and I found out she had been on a date with someone else.  That was the 2nd time it had happened this year and I said enough.  She had hinted at working it out at the end of Dec, which I wasn't open to. So, starting in January, I went on a NC hiatus with her so I could detach.  Of course, I talked to her a few days in mid Jan.  Felt like crap for doing so, so I went back NC. Surfaced up and talked to her again in early Feb.  During those times, she was telling me a lot of confusing stuff.  She was tiptoeing around a r/s with me or at the very least leading me to think it was possible.  I wasn't open to the idea, but wasn't sure either.  I just didn't know what to do.  What came next sealed it for me.

I found out about a week after her telling me how much she loved me "forever and always", missed "all of" me, and arranging to see me outside work again that she was "head over heels in love" with a co worker of ours.  Apparently they had been together since mid December.  Remember, she was trying to keep me in a r/s back then, too.  That's when the FOG was gone for me.  I completely detached.  She literally was using me. NONE of this was about me... .it was ALL about her.

J started DBT in mid sept 2015, btw.  I have no idea if she kept (or is currently) going or not.  If she is, she's not taking it seriously.  She displays N traits and she is high functioning.  Both present a unique problem to DBT.  The end result is that she was fine with talking to me like she was yet being "head over heels" for L.  In her mind, I guess, she put me on the shelf in case she needed me.  If she wanted, that is.  Granted, we started under bad terms, but by the end of the year, there was no reason for her to do what she had done.  I had been as open and honest with her as anyone could be.  I'm not here to debate the morality of what we did.  How we ended, that's what I'm here to talk about. I'm sure, at some point, I meant something to her.  But, it was unhealthy and toxic.  In the end, I was used and discarded, just like the rest of us here.

Detaching is a process.  It takes time and there are setbacks from time to time.  Just don't fall for the illusion that everything is better or they are feeling how you feel.  J told me that she loved me, verbally said it, a week before I found out she was seeing L.  She never once, in any of our talking, told me about him.  Why?   Because she knew I'd fully be gone when I found out.  She claims he knows all about us and our past and doesn't hide anything from him.  Maybe that's true, but she hid him from me.  Than she had the audacity to say she wanted to be a friend to me.  I declined.

Pepper, it's hard to detach and move on.  But, trust me, don't let that rattlesnake back in your sleeping bag.  For your own sanity, it's just not worth it.  Take this time to heal. Talked to him or argue with him in your car, the shower, or at home.  Post a letter here.  Do whatever you must, but don't engage him.  You'll wake up one day and you'll suddenly be 'better' and you won't care what he's doing, thinking, or feeling. It takes time, but you will get there.  You don't have to hate him, he does that enough himself.  But, that doesn't give him carte Blanche to treat you like trash. Trust me.

[hergestridge]

I hade one golden rule after I broke up with my BPDwife. No phone calls. If she sent a text I replied, but only if she put an obvious question that I felt I could answer.

I could not answer the question "Why won't you talk to me" because I had already answered it. If someone asks your a question multiple times and you have already answered it, the question is only meant to wear you down and manipulate.

I could not answer the question "We need to talk/I want to talk", because that is not a question to begin with. It is just an attempt to put the conversation in an arena where she can play out her full register - crying, long silences, rage etc. No.

Just ignore statements like "I have the right to closure" or "I have the right to defend/explain... .". No person has such a right outside of a court.

Just ignore reasoning or statements that don't make sense or are difficult to follow. I used to "lose" a lot of discussions because I tried to understand and meet poorly constructed arguments. Sometimes I couldn't say I didn't agree with her because I couldn't follow her at all. And considering these arguments are mostly about something you have already discussed, just ignore.

My ex wife has this terribly complicated theories about "fairness". Just an example;

We have shared custody of our daughter. Sometimes one of us wants to abroad or on vacation for a couple of weeks. I said I cover for her when she's away and take care of our daughter, if she does the same to me.

She thinks her going away means she has the right to *more* days with our daughter. When she is abroad she counts the days she *should* have been with our daughter and claims I *owe* her these days. I just said it doesn't make sense and I haven't discussed it since. She will drop it eventually, but if you engage things will just escalate.

[apepper21]

Lonely_Astro: Thank you for sharing your story, it sounds very hard and painful.

When you said "Talked to him or argue with him in your car, the shower, or at home.  Post a letter here.  Do whatever you must, but don't engage him." do you mean talk to him, like to myself not TO him, but say what I want to say to him in my car, shower, here but not TO him in reality? I assume that's what you mean.

I am afraid of overburdening this forum, did/do you ever feel that way? I suppose I can just write what I want and noone has to respond!

[apepper21]

hergestridge: Thank you for sharing as well. It is so helpful to hear these things. I really like that theory about if it's a question, and then asking yourself IS it a question, and if you've answered it before, it's not a question! And I TOTALLY get sucked in by those as well as his how bad he is and how awful he feels about himself and how he didn't treat me well and how it's the worst mistake he ever mad, in an attempt to make me feel badly. Thing is if he BELIEVED those things, he would have CHANGED if he could.

It IS super hard not to engage, reading your story helps give me more strength. I see similar behaviors and it's easier for me to see it IS a disorder, not me making it up!

thanks!

[Lonely_Astro]

Lonely_Astro: Thank you for sharing your story, it sounds very hard and painful.

When you said "Talked to him or argue with him in your car, the shower, or at home.  Post a letter here.  Do whatever you must, but don't engage him." do you mean talk to him, like to myself not TO him, but say what I want to say to him in my car, shower, here but not TO him in reality? I assume that's what you mean.

I am afraid of overburdening this forum, did/do you ever feel that way? I suppose I can just write what I want and noone has to respond!

That should've been 'talk' not 'talked'.  I mean talk to yourself, not him.  Nothing good would come of engaging him.  What I mean is you won't get answers or closure by doing so.  Now is your time to heal.  Grieving is a process and it takes however long it takes.  No matter how he perceived the r/s, it was 'real' to you and you've lost someone.  It's ok to have the feelings you're having.  I see the girl I love every day... .well, her doppelgänger.  The J I knew doesn't exist any longer.  That makes it even harder.  I saw her walking down the hall toward me and I focused on a point at the other end.  I didn't acknowledge her.  Childish?  Perhaps.  But it's what I have to do to not slip back into my addiction.  As she passed, she stomped her feet harder like a toddler throwing a tantrum.  Once again, it wasn't about me or what I'm going through... .it's about how my ignoring her made her feel in that moment.  But, this isn't about her, it's about me.  That's what I have to do to move on.  So I do it.

Keep healing.  Never think you're burdening us on this board.  That's why we're here, all of us.  To help each other as we progress, as we heal ourselves. 

Keep posting.

[apepper21]

Lonely_Astro. Thanks yet AGAIN, especially for saying to keep posting. It has been especially helpful since you also work with your ex. I know this would still SUCK, but having to see him and his moods AND having my own feelings and not acting on them. Like you, knowing that being cold is best, but not wanting to be cold, AND having him ACT like it bothers him I'm cold, when really it's just a control thing.

Thank you for sharing your challenge and SUCCESS, way to go!

I know I'm new to the site, however I hope to be supportive to you in return!