Missed this chance... practicing in case I get another

[kc sunshine]

So my exBPD was open to getting back together last weekend (called me over, started kissing me, etc). Unfortunately we started to talk relationship stuff, and while the talk itself went pretty well, it was pretty much me recognizing and apologizing for my shortcomings in the relationship, and professing my enduring love for her. Maybe it was a good approach for the possibility of building a friendship with her, but it wasn't successful in getting back together. If I'm understanding the push-pull dynamic right, me talking like that gave her all the power and it provoked a "push" in her instead of a "pull." I think if I ever get the opportunity to be back in that conversation again, I should approach it in a more reserved way, saying something like "yeah, we certainly were a mix of great and tough things" -- and "I guess the big question for us is whether those difficult things are places that we want grow together or whether they are an indication that we don't share similar values." Something like that. How does that sound to you all? Any other ideas?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Scopikaz]

I'm no expert trust me. I've just found I don't think it matters what you say. If they love you they will make it work.  If not they won't.  In the last three months I exchanged Christmas gifts with my ex gf.  It went nice. I listened to her vent after Christmas when her ex wouldn't let her see her children.  I went to look for a house with her over a few days and she cried on my shoulder.  I went to a garfunkel concert with her.  Went to biltmore then to see her children. Went to her favorite musical and bed and breakfast. Have been playing trivia crack for a few weeks. And none of this. None of the good things I've said to encourage her. None of the proclaiming my love for her. None of the apologizing.  None of the relationship talk.  None of it has made one iota of a difference. 

She's loving her single life supposedly.  The bars she's frequenting. The attention from men. And I'm not naive enough to think she hasn't been with at least one of them. And it seems to me that she has her sights set on one.  He looks like a player from all his Facebook pictures and posts. But it's the path she's choosing.

I love her but it's like watch someone you love go down a destructing path or one that won't give any direction.

[kc sunshine]

Oh man, I'm feeling you Scopikaz. Mine just broke up with a couple she is seeing, and now is joining a drag king troupe where she will meet lots more people. So I think my ex is very busy enjoying herself as well!

All of your approaches sound similar to mine (being super-nice, super-available, super-loving). Do you have any experience with approaches that are more reserved, or even ambivalent? I wonder if those would make a difference. I get what you are saying about "nothing you might say will make a difference" but there does seem to be things that are a bit non-intuitive (or even game-playing like) that might be more effective in communication.

[Scopikaz]

Well. In my case too though she has said multiple times she doesn't want to get back. It pains her too much to even talk about it etc.  you know we still have an Elton john concert coming up next month. And I will probably take her sadly. I'm at a point I almost don't care anymore. I mean I love her. I hate to see her on this path she's on. But there's nothing i can do.

My only analogies are i have a friend who is alcoholic. He hasn't drank in 12 years mind you.  But when he was no amount of talking to him made him want to quit. Had to come from within. 

The other analogy is the prodigal son. The son wanted to leave. Father let him. Again he had to hit rock bottom before he realized his errors. No one was there telling him to go back.  He came to decision on his own due to his circumstances.

I can't believe she is on a path that will change or improve her life at all.  Maybe when she realizes most regulars you meet In bars at age 30 to 40 something also have issues and most are not great relationship material (IMO) then she will have change of heart.  I don't know.

[kc sunshine]

Fingers crossed for her, Scopikaz. Meanwhile, how are you doing/holding up?

[Scopikaz]

Thanks for asking. I'm ok. Day to day you know.  I am trying nc yet again. My plan is to go nc till

about two or three days before concert.  If I can do that it will be major.  The thing Is I have a woman who loves me and would do anything for me.  I dated her two and a half years ago for six months.  We never argued. She's cute.  She's fun. But at the time we started going out I also started communicating with my ex.  My ex at the time lived two hours away. But we messaged nightly.  Deep intense sharing. So I sort of became emotionally involved with her.  Then we finally after two months and it developed into affair.  So I never gave the other woman a fair shake.

and now the other woman knowing the situation has been nice and we've done things together the past couple of months. She knows I'm trying to get over my ex.  It's strictly platonic now. Which is good. The thing is she emailed me yesterday and said she's not going anywhere. She knows I'm trying to heal and she said I've been nicer to her than either of her two husbands And anyone she's dated.  Ugh

I do enjoy her company. But the communication or rapport is just not what it was with my ex. So I'm

Doing the comparison game. She's more introverted or shy than my ex.  So I need to try give her a fair shake though instead of doing the comparison game. Etc

[Scopikaz]

And how are you? 

[Conundrum]

All of your approaches sound similar to mine (being super-nice, super-available, super-loving). Do you have any experience with approaches that are more reserved, or even ambivalent? I wonder if those would make a difference. I get what you are saying about "nothing you might say will make a difference" but there does seem to be things that are a bit non-intuitive (or even game-playing like) that might be more effective in communication.

while the talk itself went pretty well, it was pretty much me recognizing and apologizing for my shortcomings in the relationship, and professing my enduring love for her.

Hi, it's difficult reading this bc I see that you really want something with her. I'm trying to formulate a tactful reply but, "apologizing for my shortcomings in the relationship, and professing my enduring love," just isn't going to cut it. And being "super-nice, super-available, super-loving" will repel instead of attracting. In a perfect world of unicorns and rainbows all that would lead to eternal happiness, but I'm afraid that in this material world it will not.

While gaming a pwBPD in some sort of lame PUA sense is bad strategy (and unethical) on many levels--however, maximizing your probabilities in a beneficent sense is not. If you want to attract her then entice her.  Many pwBPD crave intensity and excitement. Figure out how to provide that while still being in control of your emotions. A little mystery, charm, confidence, humor, wit and leadership goes a long way. Above all be beneficently selfish. Know what you want and express it directly. No pleading, apologizing for shortcomings, or by being endlessly super nice. A key trait of co-dependency is the inability to be selfish. There's healthy selfishness, and unhealthy selfishness. Best of luck.       

[kc sunshine]

Oh man, I totally know. I am kicking myself for it. It is so hard to resist doing that in the face of her recriminations (they are less bitter, though, so that is good)-- that's why I think I need to develop some new approaches.

What did you think of the phrases  "yeah, we certainly were a mix of great and tough things" -- and "I guess the big question for us is whether those difficult things are places that we want grow together or whether they are an indication that we don't share similar values." Do you think they combine leadership with some mystery and confidence?

I love the concept of beneficent selfishness.

All of your approaches sound similar to mine (being super-nice, super-available, super-loving). Do you have any experience with approaches that are more reserved, or even ambivalent? I wonder if those would make a difference. I get what you are saying about "nothing you might say will make a difference" but there does seem to be things that are a bit non-intuitive (or even game-playing like) that might be more effective in communication.

while the talk itself went pretty well, it was pretty much me recognizing and apologizing for my shortcomings in the relationship, and professing my enduring love for her.

Hi, it's difficult reading this bc I see that you really want something with her. I'm trying to formulate a tactful reply but, "apologizing for my shortcomings in the relationship, and professing my enduring love," just isn't going to cut it. And being "super-nice, super-available, super-loving" will repel instead of attracting. In a perfect world of unicorns and rainbows all that would lead to eternal happiness, but I'm afraid that in this material world it will not.

While gaming a pwBPD in some sort of lame PUA sense is bad strategy (and unethical) on many levels--however, maximizing your probabilities in a beneficent sense is not. If you want to attract her then entice her.  Many pwBPD crave intensity and excitement. Figure out how to provide that while still being in control of your emotions. A little mystery, charm, confidence, humor, wit and leadership goes a long way. Above all be beneficently selfish. Know what you want and express it directly. No pleading, apologizing for shortcomings, or by being endlessly super nice. A key trait of co-dependency is the inability to be selfish. There's healthy selfishness, and unhealthy selfishness. Best of luck.       

[kc sunshine]

Scopikaz, I'm doing okay, but have some emotional whiplash from the push pull. It's rough going and frankly I am losing hope (and maybe even interest) a bit. She wanted me to go see her perform in a drag show on Saturday but I said no-- I couldn't see how that would be a good idea, seeing her in a super social dance party without actually being with her. That sounded like a recipe for emotional disaster. On the other hand, perhaps I was being too weak (and a more confident, charming me would have been able to go?) I'm not sure.