Prolonging the misery

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

It’s been six weeks since I ended it. Almost every day for the first 5 weeks he contacted me, sometimes threatening, other times wanting friendship, etc, I didn’t fall for any of his manipulations and refused to see him. He then seemed to give up and stopped contacting me for a week. I felt ok, probably better. I’ve started to exercise again, have given up alcohol and am eating properly. I am still deeply depressed as I’ve lost a lot, job, career, etc, but these little things are helping.

I had no compulsion to contact him at all, but at the back of my mind I knew he would make contact again. He started up again a couple of days ago. At first I didn’t take the bait, but eventually it all got too much and I found myself back in the twilight zone. I’ll spare you the details, but basically he is a wonderful person and I am a lying, nasty cheat (common theme) with no values. I felt highly anxious, frustrated, offended, and wretched. I ended up telling him he was a disgusting person and to please just go away. His response “Well there you go. I’ll take that as your last words to me”.

I was left feeling terribly guilty despite his unbelievable nastiness, because this isn’t the person I am. I’d lost control and had insulted him right back and he’d got the reaction he wanted.

He left me alone for a day, but now wants to talk. I asked him for what purpose. He says he wants to discuss our differing views on our relationship. He wrote “my aim is to point out facts so you become less disillusioned” and he wants “to point out events so you’d better understand” and he wants to “better understand your motives for certain things”.

It sounds as if he wants closure of some kind. He either wants to blame me or other people (e.g. he thinks my therapist and friends have negatively influenced me). It’s unlikely that he’d take any responsibility and if he does have moment of lucidity, e.g. he once admitted that he rages, he quickly minimises it. Another possibility is that he wants to hurt me. That may sound weird, but he likes hurting me and sometimes it borders on the sadistic.

I am, however, willing to listen to what he has to say. This isn’t only for him, but for me too. I sometimes feel so sorry for him and have tried to educate myself, tried to understand what might be going on so I could help and support him. I would like to finalise everything gently, and not from a place of frustration and anger. I was thinking that maybe I could show him I understand, that we have differing perspectives, but I understand his and then wish him well. Something like that.

I suggested email might be best as it allows us space to think so we don’t react impulsively and negatively. If not, I said via phone would be ok, but he wants to meet face to face. I’ve refused as I’m not comfortable with that and I’ve been round this track too many times. Seeing him would probably trigger the last vestiges of hope and he’d pull me in, but then push me away again. Sometimes within minutes. It’s sadistic. It might be days later, but the outcome is always the same. I’ve been there so many times now and I’m ruined. There has to come a day when it’s no more.

I’ve denied his request to meet face to face and he’s not responded. That was two hours ago. I’ll leave the ball in his court. If he wants to write he can. Trying to detach is incredibly painful.

[Larmoyant]

It’s been six weeks since I ended it. Almost every day for the first 5 weeks he contacted me, sometimes threatening, other times wanting friendship, etc, I didn’t fall for any of his manipulations and refused to see him. He then seemed to give up and stopped contacting me for a week. I felt ok, probably better. I’ve started to exercise again, have given up alcohol and am eating properly. I am still deeply depressed as I’ve lost a lot, job, career, etc, but these little things are helping.

I had no compulsion to contact him at all, but at the back of my mind I knew he would make contact again. He started up again a couple of days ago. At first I didn’t take the bait, but eventually it all got too much and I found myself back in the twilight zone. I’ll spare you the details, but basically he is a wonderful person and I am a lying, nasty cheat (common theme) with no values. I felt highly anxious, frustrated, offended, and wretched. I ended up telling him he was a disgusting person and to please just go away. His response “Well there you go. I’ll take that as your last words to me”.

I was left feeling terribly guilty despite his unbelievable nastiness, because this isn’t the person I am. I’d lost control and had insulted him right back and he’d got the reaction he wanted.

He left me alone for a day, but now wants to talk. I asked him for what purpose. He says he wants to discuss our differing views on our relationship. He wrote “my aim is to point out facts so you become less disillusioned” and he wants “to point out events so you’d better understand” and he wants to “better understand your motives for certain things”.

It sounds as if he wants closure of some kind. He either wants to blame me or other people (e.g. he thinks my therapist and friends have negatively influenced me). It’s unlikely that he’d take any responsibility and if he does have moment of lucidity, e.g. he once admitted that he rages, he quickly minimises it. Another possibility is that he wants to hurt me. That may sound weird, but he likes hurting me and sometimes it borders on the sadistic.

I am, however, willing to listen to what he has to say. This isn’t only for him, but for me too. I sometimes feel so sorry for him and have tried to educate myself, tried to understand what might be going on so I could help and support him. I would like to finalise everything gently, and not from a place of frustration and anger. I was thinking that maybe I could show him I understand, that we have differing perspectives, but I understand his and then wish him well. Something like that.

I suggested email might be best as it allows us space to think so we don’t react impulsively and negatively. If not, I said via phone would be ok, but he wants to meet face to face. I’ve refused as I’m not comfortable with that and I’ve been round this track too many times. Seeing him would probably trigger the last vestiges of hope and he’d pull me in, but then push me away again. Sometimes within minutes. It’s sadistic. It might be days later, but the outcome is always the same. I’ve been there so many times now and I’m ruined. There has to come a day when it’s no more.

I’ve denied his request to meet face to face and he’s not responded. That was two hours ago. I’ll leave the ball in his court. If he wants to write he can. Trying to detach is incredibly painful.

[Turkish]

My first thoughts reading the first half of your post were,."what do you owe this person?" However, it feels like you need something here, too. Your boundary is valid, and solid in order for you to feel emotionally safe. The ball is in his court indeed.

If you had to summarize, what do you feel you need from him this? Not for him but for you?

[Larmoyant]

Hi Turkish,

That is such a good question and it’s so difficult to answer. I’m not sure.  At the top of my head:

1.   It could be that I need him to understand me and maybe I do need him to validate my feelings, but at the same time I know he won’t/can’t provide that.

2.   I need to stop feeling angry and resentful and to say goodbye in a gentle, decent way. I need to feel like a mature, loving, human being, not resentful for all the damage that’s been done, yet I do feel a lot of anger and resentment. He has hurt me beyond words.

3.   I need to ‘untangle’ us, get his hooks out of me

4.   I need to know that it's really, truly over

5.      I need closure


It’s all off now anyway as apparently he doesn’t want to discuss anything now unless we meet. I’m not surprised because he wants what he wants, but I’m sticking to my boundary for dear life. I’ve made it quite clear no face to face. He doesn’t like it and the conversation has deteriorated and has ended up with him insulting and devaluing me. I feel exhausted.

[C.Stein]

1.   It could be that I need him to understand me and maybe I do need him to validate my feelings, but at the same time I know he won’t/can’t provide that.

2.   I need to stop feeling angry and resentful and to say goodbye in a gentle, decent way. I need to feel like a mature, loving, human being, not resentful for all the damage that’s been done, yet I do feel a lot of anger and resentment. He has hurt me beyond words.

3.   I need to ‘untangle’ us, get his hooks out of me

4.   I need to know that it's really, truly over

5.      I need closure

It is unlikely you will get any of these even if you were to meet and talk.  I get the feeling he is looking to place all the blame on you, to absolve himself of any wrong doing.  If he does admit to something it will probably carry little emotional consequence to him and/or he doesn't truly believe he is at fault.

I had a "goodbye" meet with my ex and it was incredibly painful and still haunts me to this day.  I did not get closure all I got was a blivet.

[Beacher]

Larmoyant,

I have been down this road. Still am. At times I feel incredibly guilty and let him call me and dissect our marriage. I always end up crying and feeling terrible afterwards. I finally told him I cannot discuss our marriage anymore. Since then he rarely calls and we text. I feel guilt because he is a talker and needs to voice his feelings as part of his own process of healing, and in the past I have focused on making him feel better and being mindful of his feelings, totally bypassing what is right for me.Be kind to,yourself and go n/c for a while. You may be surprised when your depression is lifted from not talking to him. One day at a time!

[TheCodependent1]

I have come to firmly believe the only way to approach a dysfunctional relationship with a BPD is to treat it as an addiction. You are trying to apply logic, reason, compassion, empathy and love to your drug of choice, the BPD in your life. There is no reasoning with heroin, or cocaine, or meth, none of these drugs are going to understand you just want to feel good the way it was in the beginning, these drugs do one thing, they enslave you, manipulate you, control you until you are destroyed.

The relationship between a non and a BPD is the same as a drug addiction and as long as you remain attached, you are an addict and the end result will be your demise.

[tryingsome]

What I found helpful in the situations like yours is holding the person accountable.

You do this for your sake (to get mentally healthy), not for theirs (to absolve blame).

I am guessing most of these old nasty comments are coming from txt or email?

So when you respond to him saying he is a nasty person, you need to preface it.

For me, I found that by starting off and saying this email on such-and such a date you said... .xyz

And this txt message you said xyz.

(something to this affect next)

Then go on and say only nasty people say these kinds of things.

Then go on and say I have no intention of staying with a nasty person.

Then go on and say look at our conversations, they are right there.

The point here is not to blame them per say. It is to take away there power/control.

They don't have to own up to their own words, but you should feel healthier and more emotionally sound for saying; hey this is not my fault.

To your ex -> Your failure to see you part is the reason this did not work out.

They can choose to accept or deny it, but it should make it easier for you to cope.


I equate it this way.

If someone says the definition of a word is xyz.

But you are pretty sure it is 123.

They can berate you till you believe xyz.

But if you show them the dictionary. You show yourself the dictionary.

Then you know positively it is 123. You can BELIEVE it is 123.

And BELIEVING in what you KNOW is part of the recovery.

At least this is how it is for me.

[tryingsome]

hit quote instead of modify.

[Larmoyant]

Thank you for your replies. Right this minute I am full of anxiety and struggling. 

Yesterday he bombarded me with texts trying to get me to meet face to face. I spent most of the day explaining why not and fending off nasty insinuations and attempts to blame me for everything.

Eventually and pushing aside my frustration/anger I said I’d like to move on nicely with kindness, but he carried on determined that we meet face to face. Exhausted I ended up saying I would think about it and get back to him.

Last night he sent me a text telling me (not asking) that I must be out with someone and how could I do that. Feeling sorry for him that he might be experiencing 'abandonment fears' I reassured him I was at home watching a movie.

This morning I discovered that he’d deactivated Office on my laptop (he’d bought me a subscription for Christmas).  I went to use it this morning and it’s not working. I texted him about it. At first he denied deactivating it, then said he deactivated it because someone messed with his ms account, then said that I’d told him that it was ok for him to take his gift back!

Eventually he emailed the product key, but it doesn’t work as he has to sign in. He said he would need to see my computer so he could sign-in to get it working. I refused saying I would buy a new subscription when I could afford one. His response was to insult me “your problem is that you think I’m like you. You’ll now convince yourself I’ve done it on purpose”.

He now wants me to just step back and see that this is just something that needs sorting out. He says that I'm the most frustrating person he's ever met and if I just meet up with him he can sign in and reinstate my subscription or I could leave it outside my house and he will come and fix it. Then this "It's me Larmoyant. You know me, you do. I do rage, but rarely. Apart from that I'm a really decent person. You know that".

I don't believe he's trying to get closure. I think he's trying to recycle me. Does anyone else think so?

tryingsome, this is invaluable. I used it this morning when he tried to confuse me about the above, thank you so much.

Beacher, I too often feel guilty because he's inflicted with these traits, but it's my downfall. I feel sorry for him and before I know it I'm back in his grasp crying my eyes out.

C.Stein, he most definitely is trying to place all the blame on me. It's as if he cannot tolerate being, as he calls it "the bad guy". The only thing he's ever admitted to is having a 'bad temper' (more like rages) and that's my fault as I make him so angry.

Codependent1, it probably is an addiction and/or trauma bond. I'm having therapy and beginning to discuss possible FOO issues that tie me to him. I desperately need to detach. He is toxic to my soul and well-being and I have no doubt it will lead to my demise if I don't get out fast.

[C.Stein]

C.Stein, he most definitely is trying to place all the blame on me. It's as if he cannot tolerate being, as he calls it "the bad guy". The only thing he's ever admitted to is having a 'bad temper' (more like rages) and that's my fault as I make him so angry.

My ex also cannot tolerate being seen as a bad person.  Any action of hers that even suggests she might be a bad person gets projected or blamed on someone or something else.  She has no problem accepting responsibility for other things that carry no emotional consequence and/or do not make her look like a bad person.  I have even seen her attempt to take responsibility for things that were clearly not her fault.  

I think she does this in part to make it appear she accepts responsibility for her behavior/actions (eg. a responsible person).  I hate to think this is done intentionally but the end effect is the same.  It leaves her own self and the person (me in this case) thinking/believing she is capable and willing of accepting responsibility for her actions.  Then when her hurtful ("bad person" actions which she can't/won't accept responsibility for are justified/blamed away it will appear more valid and true.  It is a very cunning and effective means of manipulation.