For those of us who struggle with wanting justice or revenge

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I'm not going to lie, I felt it strongly! And still do at times! I wanted to put him to the public and his job. He works with children and he told me that he screams at them! Poor inner city children who Come from broken homes. K to 5th grade! He doesn't even like children. Never Spends time with his own nephews. His one nephew didn't know who he was at one point because he never sees them or plays with them!

But I think we should remember something when we get mad, angry and upset at our injustice. They will NEVER be happy in life! If they go untreated they just won't! Their lives will be filled with drama, Chaos, and grief. They will never experience true intimacy or love with another person. Even with their own family they are demanding and needy. They don't know how to reciprocate love properly. Most borderlines have co morbid illnesses so add to this... Anxieties disorders, major depression, addictions that will affect them physically and financially. Job instability. They tend not to be able to retain simple friendships! Can you imagine feeling the way they feel and never having anyone to tell or talk about it with! They don't trust anyone enough to share their inner turmoil! That is another reason why they are so implusive and love to travel, go gamble, have fun, fun, fun! So they don't have to deal with what they are feeling!

It comes at a price! Many are in huge debt, can't support themselves . And can't even stay alone at night! My BF never lived on his own. He lives with parents and doesn't have a bedroom! And isn't saving to get his own place. They don't look at the big picture! They can't function as an adult. They may be intelligent but their emotional IQ is below average. Unless they commit to treatment this is their lot in life! Even if they find someone to support them! They will still cheat and have all their inner turmoil come to the surface . Life will bring to them what they put out. They actually do it to themselves . So don't think they aren't going to have to be accountable! They will. We just won't see it. It's hard to detach and heal. But knowing that my life isn't stuck with his chaos and poor choices makes me feel hopeful . Staying with him would of made me physical sick! Which it was, and financially broke! I feel free now in many ways! Like anything is possible! Without his anger, rage, selfishness, spoiled bratty entitled ways! No more eggshells and no more one sided relationship!

[Itstopsnow]

I'm not going to lie, I felt it strongly! And still do at times! I wanted to put him to the public and his job. He works with children and he told me that he screams at them! Poor inner city children who Come from broken homes. K to 5th grade! He doesn't even like children. Never Spends time with his own nephews. His one nephew didn't know who he was at one point because he never sees them or plays with them!

But I think we should remember something when we get mad, angry and upset at our injustice. They will NEVER be happy in life! If they go untreated they just won't! Their lives will be filled with drama, Chaos, and grief. They will never experience true intimacy or love with another person. Even with their own family they are demanding and needy. They don't know how to reciprocate love properly. Most borderlines have co morbid illnesses so add to this... Anxieties disorders, major depression, addictions that will affect them physically and financially. Job instability. They tend not to be able to retain simple friendships! Can you imagine feeling the way they feel and never having anyone to tell or talk about it with! They don't trust anyone enough to share their inner turmoil! That is another reason why they are so implusive and love to travel, go gamble, have fun, fun, fun! So they don't have to deal with what they are feeling!

It comes at a price! Many are in huge debt, can't support themselves . And can't even stay alone at night! My BF never lived on his own. He lives with parents and doesn't have a bedroom! And isn't saving to get his own place. They don't look at the big picture! They can't function as an adult. They may be intelligent but their emotional IQ is below average. Unless they commit to treatment this is their lot in life! Even if they find someone to support them! They will still cheat and have all their inner turmoil come to the surface . Life will bring to them what they put out. They actually do it to themselves . So don't think they aren't going to have to be accountable! They will. We just won't see it. It's hard to detach and heal. But knowing that my life isn't stuck with his chaos and poor choices makes me feel hopeful . Staying with him would of made me physical sick! Which it was, and financially broke! I feel free now in many ways! Like anything is possible! Without his anger, rage, selfishness, spoiled bratty entitled ways! No more eggshells and no more one sided relationship!

[Lonely_Astro]

Treated or not... .I don't think they get better.  I think they can manage to function, but only so long, even with DBT.  I think those that show success with therapy are the far, slim, and unicorn few that take it serious.  Others go to placate someone and don't take it serious.

My ex has never lived on her own.  She went from her parents, to bf's, back to parents, to marriage, back to parents... .see the pattern?  As far as I could tell, she never saved a penny (even though she claimed to save, I never saw any proof of it).  She constantly lied about her finances.  Well, she lied about practically everything, but I digress.

I, too, have had fantasies of her crashing and burning because I wanted her to feel just for a second the pain she brought me.  I wanted her to fail.  I still have moments where I do.  Selfish of not, I don't care.  It's only when we hit rock bottom that we are able to build a solid foundation.  Of course, she lives at rock bottom all the time, doesnt she?  I'm sure she doesnt feel that way right now as she has a bf and they appear to be having a great time together.  It stings to see that.  But, he's on borrowed time with her.  His day will come.

Im grateful for no more eggshells.

[Itstopsnow]

I agree lonely Astro, most don't get better . And it takes like 10 years I hear in some circles to be truly "better" but something like a personalty disorder is very hard to "cure" or change . Especially when they don't see themselves as being wrong or at fault, I really want to see the crash and burn that he causes himself. So you're not alone in wanting that. I think it's normal. I think for us Non's we have to see the big picture of our lives! This doesn't define us! It isn't who we are and what we are about! There is so much more life out there to be lived and loved! Part of me is angry that he still has some hold over my thoughts. But letting go is a process and I'm trying! Knowing there are good people out there who have been through what I have makes me realize I'm not alone in the struggle . And there is a light at the end of the tunnel. We will get there my friend!

[Driver]

Hi there,

I don't know if it is intentional, but the title of this thread makes me think of how exactly a pwBPD would react: "justice" and "revenge".

Personally, although I felt i was completely destroyed by a pwBPD, I never felt any kind of revenge. All I've been thinking is rather what to do to help those who suffer from the disorder. Emotionally I feel sadness and frustration that the disorder seems to be almost incurable.

Now, regarding revenge, a simple question: why? You know the pwBPD is ill and that whatever they have done to us, it's our fault for letting them go that far. Can they even be held responsible for their actions knowing that those actions are triggered by a serious mental disorder?

Regarding justice, what justice? Our "justice"? If we want justice, then we try arrange things in a friendly way. If it's impossible then we have to agree to disagree and simply walk away. And if however some kind of harm is done, then we file a complaint to the police and the judge will decide.

If we take the justice in our hands, then the pwBPD can do exactly the same thing. The irony is, it is very often they who seek revenge and justice, so I wouldn't go down that path. 

[Lonely_Astro]

I agree lonely Astro, most don't get better . And it takes like 10 years I hear in some circles to be truly "better" but something like a personalty disorder is very hard to "cure" or change . Especially when they don't see themselves as being wrong or at fault, I really want to see the crash and burn that he causes himself. So you're not alone in wanting that. I think it's normal. I think for us Non's we have to see the big picture of our lives! This doesn't define us! It isn't who we are and what we are about! There is so much more life out there to be lived and loved! Part of me is angry that he still has some hold over my thoughts. But letting go is a process and I'm trying! Knowing there are good people out there who have been through what I have makes me realize I'm not alone in the struggle . And there is a light at the end of the tunnel. We will get there my friend!

Yes, we will get there.  One foot in front of the other.  I am learning some new hobbies and growing each day.  I actually had coffee with a friend of mine the other day and discussed politics.  That was something I hadn't done in a long, long time.  I'm starting to realize how much of the past year I spent focused on J.  The sad part is that I didnt even realize how much time I spent focused on her needs/wants.  Theres been a few things seeping out lately that I realized I had 'put away' because of her.

Each day is a struggle.  It's hard working with the two of them (J and my replacement, L).  L doesnt blatantly rub it in my face he's with her, but J does.  She talks loudly about "how awesome her" weekends were with him and she's put her wallpaper on her desktop as the two of them.  She kept all that quiet until I found out about the two of them and then it was like opening a floodgate.  Once again, she's hurting someone, knows that she is, but hey, what's my feelings matter... .right?  But, hey, according to her, I made her a better person and she'll always love me for that.  I'm not good enough to be with, but good enough to have her new r/s thrown in my face every chance she gets.  

But, back on topic, the studies about DBT and "making them better" to us non's is really a pipe dream.  I have reached the conclusion that those that do "get better" are the unicorns of the group.  They are just that rare.  I mean, sure, it's all in how you define "success".  If you once wanted to kill yourself and now you don't, that's a success.  But if you're still lying, cheating, manipulating, and just not being a great person... .is it really "success"?  I submit not.

J is/was in her infancy of DBT.  She started mid-Sept 2015 (my discard happened the first part of Oct).  I know that during that time she had skipped weeks (the best excuse to skip was because she had to get her nails done) and she wasn't doing group sessions (she claims her T pulled her because she wasn't ready for group yet).  J is just one of those people that isn't going to get better.  I came to that conclusion.  She was more than happy to use me (and thus give me a fix), but she just wasn't going to "get better".

I'm better off without her.  Still... .in those quiet moments, I hope she crashes.  She ruined my life for awhile, I want her to ruin hers too.

[Frank88]

In everyone's experience, how long do these rebounds last? How long before the mask comes off?

In terms of justice, Driver, I think it is a normal healthy emotion to want justice. We don't necessarily need to be the ones to mete out the justice, but being ok with anyone like this walking the streets and destroying others is not good in my book. They should at least stay single and not destroy others. But for us to move on, we can't obsess about them getting justice. Their time will come. They all seem to self destruct.

[Lonely_Astro]

Hi there,

I don't know if it is intentional, but the title of this thread makes me think of how exactly a pwBPD would react: "justice" and "revenge".

Personally, although I felt i was completely destroyed by a pwBPD, I never felt any kind of revenge. All I've been thinking is rather what to do to help those who suffer from the disorder. Emotionally I feel sadness and frustration that the disorder seems to be almost incurable.

Now, regarding revenge, a simple question: why? You know the pwBPD is ill and that whatever they have done to us, it's our fault for letting them go that far. Can they even be held responsible for their actions knowing that those actions are triggered by a serious mental disorder?

Regarding justice, what justice? Our "justice"? If we want justice, then we try arrange things in a friendly way. If it's impossible then we have to agree to disagree and simply walk away. And if however some kind of harm is done, then we file a complaint to the police and the judge will decide.

If we take the justice in our hands, then the pwBPD can do exactly the same thing. The irony is, it is very often they who seek revenge and justice, so I wouldn't go down that path. 

I think you're taking Itstopsnow's title out of context.  It's natural for someone who's been hurt to want revenge/justice for the wrongdoing they experienced.  It's all part of the Anger Stage of grief. 

"Now, regarding revenge, a simple question: why? You know the pwBPD is ill and that whatever they have done to us, it's our fault for letting them go that far. Can they even be held responsible for their actions knowing that those actions are triggered by a serious mental disorder?"

I have never felt the desire for 'revenge', not in the way I think you're saying it.  I haven't wanted to go out and sabotage her r/s or anything.  I would stop short of saying whatever she did to me was solely my fault.  Did I expect J to be perfect?  Of course not.  I also didnt expect her to lie, cheat, manipulate, or otherwise be a nasty person, mentally ill or not.  BPD doesnt make them do those things, they choose to do them, and then feel bad after the consequences of those actions come back to bite them.  They can absolutely be held responsible/accountable for their actions.  If they can't be, they need to be in a mental ward.  It's just that simple.

It's great that you don't feel any guilt, shame, anger, or anything else about how your ex treated you.  Really, it is.  But, many of us don't feel that way and I won't for a long time.  A lot of what I 'let her' do, I found out about well after she had done it.  The r/s ended at the time her lies caught up to her and stuff still keeps creeping up, post r/s.

So no, Driver, I am not going to give her a pass just because she has a mental illness.  She is in control and aware of 'right' and 'wrong', just like you and me.  Like I said, if she wasn't, she should be locked up.  No, sir, I will hold her accountable for her wrongdoing, just as anyone else should.  They don't get a pass simply because 'they're ill'.  Once again, they are completely aware of their actions at all times.  Giving them a pass is called enabling, no thanks.

[Driver]

In everyone's experience, how long do these rebounds last? How long before the mask comes off?

In terms of justice, Driver, I think it is a normal healthy emotion to want justice. We don't necessarily need to be the ones to mete out the justice, but being ok with anyone like this walking the streets and destroying others is not good in my book. They should at least stay single and not destroy others. But for us to move on, we can't obsess about them getting justice. Their time will come. They all seem to self destruct.

Of course seeking justice is healthy, but what becomes unhealthy is when everyone starts defining their own justice and that includes pwBPD. They too seek justice. When their bf or gf breaks up with them, they think it's injustice because we are letting them down and then they feel thirst for revenge and their interpretation of justice. Moreover, they will accuse us for destroying THEIR lives. So, seeking justice and revenge against people who suffer from a severe personality disorder is mission impossible. Those people suffer as much as we do and the best justice we can seek is certainly not our revenge, but walk away and initiate NC so that they can detach and focus on themselves hopefully with a therapist.

Regarding staying single, that's another issue. Many people should stay our of r/s: psychos, Narcisssits, and many others. But how can anyone prevent that? We can even develop the debate and ask ourselves who should have the right to have and raise children and who not? Cuz mostly the real issue comes from there - childhood.

[Driver]

Hi there,

I don't know if it is intentional, but the title of this thread makes me think of how exactly a pwBPD would react: "justice" and "revenge".

Personally, although I felt i was completely destroyed by a pwBPD, I never felt any kind of revenge. All I've been thinking is rather what to do to help those who suffer from the disorder. Emotionally I feel sadness and frustration that the disorder seems to be almost incurable.

Now, regarding revenge, a simple question: why? You know the pwBPD is ill and that whatever they have done to us, it's our fault for letting them go that far. Can they even be held responsible for their actions knowing that those actions are triggered by a serious mental disorder?

Regarding justice, what justice? Our "justice"? If we want justice, then we try arrange things in a friendly way. If it's impossible then we have to agree to disagree and simply walk away. And if however some kind of harm is done, then we file a complaint to the police and the judge will decide.

If we take the justice in our hands, then the pwBPD can do exactly the same thing. The irony is, it is very often they who seek revenge and justice, so I wouldn't go down that path. 

I think you're taking Itstopsnow's title out of context.  It's natural for someone who's been hurt to want revenge/justice for the wrongdoing they experienced.  It's all part of the Anger Stage of grief. 

"Now, regarding revenge, a simple question: why? You know the pwBPD is ill and that whatever they have done to us, it's our fault for letting them go that far. Can they even be held responsible for their actions knowing that those actions are triggered by a serious mental disorder?"

I have never felt the desire for 'revenge', not in the way I think you're saying it.  I haven't wanted to go out and sabotage her r/s or anything.  I would stop short of saying whatever she did to me was solely my fault.  Did I expect J to be perfect?  Of course not.  I also didnt expect her to lie, cheat, manipulate, or otherwise be a nasty person, mentally ill or not.  BPD doesnt make them do those things, they choose to do them, and then feel bad after the consequences of those actions come back to bite them.  They can absolutely be held responsible/accountable for their actions.  If they can't be, they need to be in a mental ward.  It's just that simple.

It's great that you don't feel any guilt, shame, anger, or anything else about how your ex treated you.  Really, it is.  But, many of us don't feel that way and I won't for a long time.  A lot of what I 'let her' do, I found out about well after she had done it.  The r/s ended at the time her lies caught up to her and stuff still keeps creeping up, post r/s.

So no, Driver, I am not going to give her a pass just because she has a mental illness.  She is in control and aware of 'right' and 'wrong', just like you and I.  Like I said, if she wasn't, she should be locked up.  No, sir, I will hold her accountable for her wrongdoing, just as anyone else should.  They don't get a pass simply because 'they're ill'.  Once again, they are completely aware of their actions at all times.  Giving them a pass is called enabling, no thanks.

I understand what you mean and what you feel. I also agree that they should be accountable for their actions, but still with a dose of rationality. We must realize that they are just not liek anyone else. Even though they know the right between the good and the bad, their problem is so deep within themselves that it should be taken into account to. The personality that they develop isn't a healthy one, neither for us, nor for them. If they break every single rule in a r/s that there is, it is not because they want to break it. They simply want to get out of their hollow-self and out of that skin which they do not even recognize as theirs. They do suffer a lot and we should not forget that. We shouldn't think in terms of black and white the way they do. I am not syaing we should let them do bad things to s, I am simply trying to say that set aside our "right for justice and revenge" feeling, we shouldn't forget to show some compassion too.

[Lonely_Astro]

I understand what you mean and what you feel. I also agree that they should be accountable for their actions, but still with a dose of rationality. We must realize that they are just not liek anyone else. Even though they know the right between the good and the bad, their problem is so deep within themselves that it should be taken into account to. The personality that they develop isn't a healthy one, neither for us, nor for them. If they break every single rule in a r/s that there is, it is not because they want to break it. They simply want to get out of their hollow-self and out of that skin which they do not even recognize as theirs. They do suffer a lot and we should not forget that. We shouldn't think in terms of black and white the way they do. I am not syaing we should let them do bad things to s, I am simply trying to say that set aside our "right for justice and revenge" feeling, we shouldn't forget to show some compassion too.

But isn't that what itstopsnow's post is about?  It's about saying "hey, you're normal for having these desires, but remember, they're in even more of a hell than we could ever put them in."  That's how I interpreted it.

I took J's BPD into account on a lot of stuff she did (or didnt do) in our r/s.  Maybe I took it into account to much.  But you know what?  She is self-aware.  She knows she's messed up.  She knows she can't trust her own emotions.  Did that matter?  Nope.  She still chose to lie to me, cheat on me, and just not be a nice girl to me.  She cheated on me for a month after I snapped at her.  That was all I had to do.  The first time I had snapped on her of 6 months of being together (and that snap came after she pointed out her ex who she was sleeping with when we were together 3 years ago with - unbeknownst to me, which is a story in its own right).  That's literally all it took for her to go 'self soothe' herself with another bloke.  And you know what?  It was my fault she did it... .she was quick to tell you that!  Sorry, but I'm not taking the blame for that.  Getting back with her after that, I will take the heat for.  That was my mistake and I own it.

Sorry, but you'll be hard pressed to find any sympathy from me about how they are.  I've been through it with J twice now.  I thought she had changed and she hadn't.  That was my fault.  I get that J is the more 'dangerous' BPD type.  She's self aware, high functioning, shows Narc traits (and even some ASPD traits)... .she's a chameleon.  The sad part to all that is she knows it, she just doesn't care.  It's all about her.  She would use you, too, if she knew you.  Now, given her penchant for superficial charm and her beauty, she wields those things with deadly precision.  That, my friend, is criminal.  And everyone likes to see criminals get their just deserts.  In time, she will.  They all do.

[Driver]

I understand what you mean and what you feel. I also agree that they should be accountable for their actions, but still with a dose of rationality. We must realize that they are just not liek anyone else. Even though they know the right between the good and the bad, their problem is so deep within themselves that it should be taken into account to. The personality that they develop isn't a healthy one, neither for us, nor for them. If they break every single rule in a r/s that there is, it is not because they want to break it. They simply want to get out of their hollow-self and out of that skin which they do not even recognize as theirs. They do suffer a lot and we should not forget that. We shouldn't think in terms of black and white the way they do. I am not syaing we should let them do bad things to s, I am simply trying to say that set aside our "right for justice and revenge" feeling, we shouldn't forget to show some compassion too.

But isn't that what itstopsnow's post is about?  It's about saying "hey, you're normal for having these desires, but remember, they're in even more of a hell than we could ever put them in."  That's how I interpreted it.

I took J's BPD into account on a lot of stuff she did (or didnt do) in our r/s.  Maybe I took it into account to much.  But you know what?  She is self-aware.  She knows she's messed up.  She knows she can't trust her own emotions.  :)id that matter?  Nope.  She still chose to lie to me, cheat on me, and just not be a nice girl to me.  She cheated on me for a month after I snapped at her.  That was all I had to do.  The first time I had snapped on her of 6 months of being together (and that snap came after she pointed out her ex who she was sleeping with when we were together 3 years ago with - unbeknownst to me, which is a story in its own right).  That's literally all it took for her to go 'self soothe' herself with another bloke.  And you know what?  It was my fault she did it... .she was quick to tell you that!  Sorry, but I'm not taking the blame for that.  Getting back with her after that, I will take the heat for.  That was my mistake and I own it.

Sorry, but you'll be hard pressed to find any sympathy from me about how they are.  I've been through it with J twice now.  I thought she had changed and she hadn't.  That was my fault.  I get that J is the more 'dangerous' BPD type.  She's self aware, high functioning, shows Narc traits (and even some ASPD traits)... .she's a chameleon.  The sad part to all that is she knows it, she just doesn't care.  It's all about her.  She would use you, too, if she knew you.  Now, given her penchant for superficial charm and her beauty, she wields those things with deadly precision.  That, my friend, is criminal.  And everyone likes to see criminals get their just deserts.  In time, she will.  They all do.

All these things you went through are sad. Of course, one BPD is not another. If they are NPD, then good luck, but that's already another issue.

The truth of the matter is though, we were all children. We got lucky to either have had happy childhood or difficult childhood but without tunring into a pwBPD or NPD. The core issue is that we live in a society in which all sorts of people, among which some pretty ___ up people have children and do horrible things to them who in return grow up completely broken from inside and out. Instead of trying to fix the pwBPD (which is a noble thing) maybe we should also start thinking of having a more serious control on how children are raised and by whom. Lots of suffering is going on and no one seems to give a damn about it, yet we all expect to live in one happy world. Not gonna happen, as we seem to be all self-centered.

[Lonely_Astro]

All these things you went through are sad. Of course, one BPD is not another. If they are NPD, then good luck, but that's already another issue.

The truth of the matter is though, we were all children. We got lucky to either have had happy childhood or difficult childhood but without tunring into a pwBPD or NPD. The core issue is that we live in a society in which all sorts of people, among which some pretty f*cked up people have children and do horrible things to them who in return grow up completely broken from inside and out. Instead of trying to fix the pwBPD (which is a noble thing) maybe we should also start thinking of having a more serious control on how children are raised and by whom. Lots of suffering is going on and no one seems to give a damn about it, yet we all expect to live in one happy world. Not gonna happen, as we seem to be all self-centered.

I'm not generalizing that all BPDs are bad people.  Those of them that choose to do vile things to "loved ones" need to be held accountable for what they've done to people.  Dismissing them as 'ill' isn't holding them accountable, its enabling their behavior.  A lot of us suffer from co dependency, addiction, and self esteem issues.  We were open to their abuse, even if we didn't understand it at the time.  That may be our 'fault', but they are just as guilty of exploiting our weakness as we are to being open to their abuse.  It takes two to tango.

I agree that a lot of this starts in childhood.  But, I've seen people from horrible childhoods go on and be 'normal', just as I've seen affluent children go on to be delinquent, mental disturbed people.  There seems to be no rhyme or reason to it all.

[Frank88]

Many of us here would never let anyone else get away with what we let our BPDs get away with, and we would have fought back with anyone who even hinted at treating us like they did. They move on and continue to inflict pain. I've noticed that their friends enable them as well as family. Reminds me of an alcoholic whose friends go out and have just a few drinks with them. But that starts them down a path. I do have sympathy, but not much. Having great looks and a relatively good upbringing should be enough for anyone to do ok in this world. When their actions hurt others, it becomes criminal. Me apologizing is enabling behavior.

[Driver]

You got me wrong. I didn't say to apologize for their behavior nor to enable them by doing so. I said, when you disagree and see that there is nothing you can do, turn your back, walk away and initiate NC. That alone indicates that you are not enabling them. But getting dragged into a pull me push me situation, then breaking up and then getting back together again, and so on and on, and in the end wanting to revenge and seek justice is a bit too late. Many on thios board seem not to understand how important NC with pwBPD is. I am so surprised to see that there are so many people still in contact with their exBPDgf/bf, to only realize that all they get from it is getting hurt. (Exception made for those who have kids in common and similar cases. No choice in this case.)

[Itstopsnow]

Lonely Astro, thank you for continuing this thread! You got exactly what I was trying to say. What I was saying Driver... .(Maybe re read it slowly) was for those in this forum that are struggling with thoughts of revenge. Yes, it's a normal part of grief and healing. I was simply trying to remind them and myself as well... .Because I need a healthy dose of reality.  They are very sick and their lives are just going to keep repeating this painful abusive cycle. That will hurt others but mostly themselves! I thought it was a compassionate take. We can't save them. And I agree whole heartily with lonely Astro, they know what they are doing! This disorder doesn't take over their free will and it doesn't make them unaware of society norms. Yes, they may have some extremely intense feelings that make them so uncomfortable that they impulsively act out. But that still us a choice. They still manipulate situations .


And even when they calm down it doesn't bother them enough to want to change. My ex was cheating and I had no clue till it was completely over so no I don't think it's my fault for allowing it. He would still put me down and rage at times even though he knew he was cheating and lying. None of that made him feel guilty . You would think we'll maybe then they would treat you extra nice for the horrible things they did behind your back! No cruel harsh words, demands, tantrums and more of the same behaviors would keep resurfacing. If I knew all this I would of left after 5 months! I trusted him. I was loyal and faithful because he played up being that way too! You see this is part of the manipulations. They are more aware of what they are doing then you give them credit for. Maybe it's done out of panic and fear but it's all about them. They don't care if they leave you high and dry as long as they are safe themselves. To me that is a terrible person. I have pity and some compassion for them. But it's a fine line. This disorder is so bad most therapists don't want to take borderlines or they one take on a limited amount. It causes them to have very bad traits. They view the world as dangerous or Malevolent. I don't think they are evil people at all. But I also don't blame the disorder for who they are! Ask most borderlines they will say themselves ... .Their illness doesn't Define them .  

[Driver]

Lonely Astro, thank you for continuing this thread! You got exactly what I was trying to say. What I was saying Driver... .(Maybe re read it slowly) was for those in this forum that are struggling with thoughts of revenge. Yes, it's a normal part of grief and healing. I was simply trying to remind them and myself as well... .Because I need a healthy dose of reality.  They are very sick and their lives are just going to keep repeating this painful abusive cycle. That will hurt others but mostly themselves! I thought it was a compassionate take. We can't save them. And I agree whole heartily with lonely Astro, they know what they are doing! This disorder doesn't take over their free will and it doesn't make them unaware of society norms. Yes, they may have some extremely intense feelings that make them so uncomfortable that they impulsively act out. But that still us a choice. They still manipulate situations .


And even when they calm down it doesn't bother them enough to want to change. My ex was cheating and I had no clue till it was completely over so no I don't think it's my fault for allowing it. He would still put me down and rage at times even though he knew he was cheating and lying. None of that made him feel guilty . You would think we'll maybe then they would treat you extra nice for the horrible things they did behind your back! No cruel harsh words, demands, tantrums and more of the same behaviors would keep resurfacing. If I knew all this I would of left after 5 months! I trusted him. I was loyal and faithful because he played up being that way too! You see this is part of the manipulations. They are more aware of what they are doing then you give them credit for. Maybe it's done out of panic and fear but it's all about them. They don't care if they leave you high and dry as long as they are safe themselves. To me that is a terrible person. I have pity and some compassion for them. But it's a fine line. This disorder is so bad most therapists don't want to take borderlines or they one take on a limited amount. It causes them to have very bad traits. They view the world as dangerous or Malevolent. I don't think they are evil people at all. But I also don't blame the disorder for who they are! Ask most borderlines they will say themselves ... .Their illness doesn't Define them .  

Ok with what you are saying except the last sentence. If we believe what you say in your last sentence, then why are we here on this forum? I guess I am trying to say that although we don't know each other on this forum, we all have eerily same stories and the whole thing due to one and only thing BPD. So, in a way the BPD does define them. Maybe not the whole them, but certainly their bad actions.

I just wonder how we the non-BPDs would behave if we were pwBPD. Woudl we cheat? Would we harm the ones we love? I have read that people with BPD feel 5 times stronger than us nonBPDs. So, imagine if there is a desire in us to revenge and if we were pwBPD, that feeling for revenge would be 5 times stronger.

I know I am playing devil's advocate here, but isn't it also a dose of rationality you've been also asking for?  

[Itstopsnow]

I agree we all do have similar stories!  I think BPD is a huge engulfing aspect of who they are . Good and bad symptoms! Not just bad! When they are over the top into you as well! Mine always called me beautiful and lots of PDA and wanting all my time! I consider that part of his illness too! The last part is what I've read people with BPD say about themselves. That it doesn't define them. I've read it many places, and even saw it on YouTube blogs from sufferers who get very indignant feeling like they shouldn't be defined by that... .But you see this is a personalty disorder! It's ingrained with who they are. Their psyche is damaged since childhood. This is why it's one of the hardest mental illnesses to treat. Bipolar people take meds and they can level off. Not so with BPD. They also tend to think they aren't wrong and are the victims. They justify, project and push it off on anyone but themselves. Some seem more attuned with reality . But a lot aren't. I don't want revenge . As I stated above , their poor existent is revenge enough. They are their worse enemy . It's a double edge sword. A self fulfilling prophecy. I do feel sorry for him. But I'm not a door mat for him anymore! If the lies and deceit and manipulations weren't a huge faucet to this disorder maybe I would of stayed but the cheating and what I just mentioned makes them toxic and a liability . No one deserves that. And the fact that they can do that with little concerned or loyalty for us will always piss me off and hurt me to my core! I don't care how much pain they are in. That is a selfish nasty way to be . And I'm entitled to feel this way . As you are to feel the way you do.

[snowmonkey]

Hi all,

I feel that I want justice and that I will want revenge (at the end of the relationship). I feel totally used by the relationship that I am in.

When I do something for my partner there is no express contract that she will do something for me in return, I just feel that we have an implied social contract. I think to myself, if I do this then any reasonable person will absolutely do something for me in return. When my BPD partner abuses me, I think surely when she gets better she will say "oh sh*t, I am so sorry for what I have done to you, I will spend the next 3 years of my life dedicated to making it up to you!".

This is the basis of our desire for justice and revenge. It is a natural desire. It is absolutely understandable to feel this way. And, there is a very good reason why we feel this way. The reason is that these feelings keep our civilisation together. Without the fear of retribution and consequences, people in our society could act however they pleased. The concept of revenge keeps our society together and keeps in check the actions of people who do not act fairly. Revenge is so ingrained in us, not just in us, but throughout the animal kingdom that to deny it is to deny the evolutionary processes that have got us here today.

More than that... .We individually feel the need to exact revenge and to be the cause of pain for them. It is not good enough to just know that bad things will happen to the other person at some undisclosed time in the future. And this is for a very good reason too. The person who we wish to take revenge upon must learn that whatever bad thing happens to them is a direct consequence of their actions towards us. Think of it this way, there is no point getting your neighbour to shout at your dog three hours after it has peed on our floor. It learns nothing about expected behaviour because it does not associate its bad behaviour with being shouted at by someone else at some later time.

So, will I get revenge? I guess that remains to be seen. Perhaps she will start to fulfil her part of the social contracts we make everyday, but I do doubt that. Or perhaps I will realise that she never intended to make any social contract with me and that is my own stupidity that has me keep giving and allowing her to get away with it. I think it will depend on just how bad things get... .

[svart]

Im still hurt by my uBPDex and its been 11 months that Im out. If there isthe slightest chance to take revenge against her I will take it. I dont believe that bs about them being non accountable for all the harm they do, she even took pleadure from it and say it.

[Itstopsnow]

Some of them are so vile! I just wish what they do to others would be done to them at some point. They screw with people's trust! Mine was so bad and supposedly had a degree in family counseling . He's a prick! A hypocrite and I do believe his life with be miserable. I'm sorry for you all. The best revenge is living a full good life! Knowing that we can and will let go eventually and move on. It's just sad they we are part of this club now. Abusive relationships are never a fun place to be.

[Driver]

Guys, guys,... .are you sure you were not victims of pwBPD who were also NPD? Because when I read such a strong desire to revenge they must have broken you in such a way that it sounds more as if you were in a r/s with a pwNPD than with a pwBPD. A pwNPD takes pleasure in destroying you, but not a pwBPD, hence I'd understand your reaction.

Also, maybe it all depends on how long you had been in a r/s and how long you'd been suffering, I guess.

Now, my piece of advice for what is worthy: all negativity you feel in you is using bad energy and will drain your positive energy, so take a deep breath and thank God you are free now. You don't have to live in such a r/s any more. Use your energy in a positive way such as in rebuilding yourself. Nobody asks you to forgive them for what they've done to you, but simply move on and try to think less or not at all about your exBPD partner. Wash all the negativity off of you and start moving on by thinking positive. Maybe a Tony Robbins video on you tube might help you?

Hang in there guys, we're here to support each other, and although my pill may sound bitter to swallow, I feel it's the right way to do: flip the page, detach yourself and live your freedom.

[greenmonkey]

I am 16 months out - very strict no contact check out my previous threads for the background.

My feeling is that Karma plays a great part you can only go so long through life treating people like dirt and lying before it all catches up to you.

The best revenge in my eyes, is that I know I have a good life, I am happy with who I am, I have good and loyal friends, I have my own house, and 2 grown up kids I am very proud of.

All of the above my BPD ex will never truly achieve, due to her illness. She will never know what true happiness is, what true love is. She is embedded with self loathing, hatred, guilt and shame which she has to live with for the rest of her life unless she chooses and only she chooses to get help through therapy and counselling and has determination to manage her crises better.

I have come through the other side now - with only a few small scars remaining which are healing at a tremendous rate, and my life is truly good, it take time but you will all get there.

[Frank88]

Amen Greenmonkey.

[hope2727]

I have discussed this issue with both a therapist and friends. The final conclusion I arrived at is that don't want revenge. I want accountability.

I want to be validated for what I endured, what I lost, what I suffered. There is nothing wrong with wanting that. It is human nature to want that. It will never happen however.

So I will have to validate myself and reach my closure on my own. But yes I would like the smear campaign exposed, my time, money and suffering repaired,  and my heart unbroken. And while I'm wishing I'd like a unicorn. I'll keep you all posted on how it works out.